Author Topic: UAPs over America: real or balloons??  (Read 79940 times)

Offline Jiminy Cricket

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Re: UAPs over America: real or balloons??
« Reply #1800 on: October 4, 2023, 01:53:41 pm »
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Offline Alan_X

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Re: UAPs over America: real or balloons??
« Reply #1801 on: October 4, 2023, 02:34:23 pm »
He's a really interesting person. I've listened to some of his stuff and follow him on Twitter.
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Offline Jiminy Cricket

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Re: UAPs over America: real or balloons??
« Reply #1802 on: October 4, 2023, 05:41:08 pm »
He's a really interesting person. I've listened to some of his stuff and follow him on Twitter.
It was an interesting read. I had not heard of him before.

What struck me when reading it - not a novel thought, but I think I felt stronger than ever before - is how much belief in conspiracy theories is really just another religion. Or more specifically, a cult. They reinforce central doctrine with each other and support each other when outsiders fail to believe. And if you leave, you have been 'paif off' (or lead astray by the devil) and ostracized by believers who remain in the cult.

There is no such thing as a benign CT. As once you believe in CT, you are prone to believing more and more until it is all-consuming global effort by the 'illuminarti', 'global elite', and 'the Jews'. I make no distinction between any of it.
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Offline Jiminy Cricket

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Re: UAPs over America: real or balloons??
« Reply #1803 on: October 4, 2023, 07:21:47 pm »
would rather have a wank wearing a barb wire glove
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Offline So… Howard Philips

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Re: UAPs over America: real or balloons??
« Reply #1804 on: October 4, 2023, 08:06:02 pm »
It was an interesting read. I had not heard of him before.

What struck me when reading it - not a novel thought, but I think I felt stronger than ever before - is how much belief in conspiracy theories is really just another religion. Or more specifically, a cult. They reinforce central doctrine with each other and support each other when outsiders fail to believe. And if you leave, you have been 'paif off' (or lead astray by the devil) and ostracized by believers who remain in the cult.

There is no such thing as a benign CT. As once you believe in CT, you are prone to believing more and more until it is all-consuming global effort by the 'illuminarti', 'global elite', and 'the Jews'. I make no distinction between any of it.

Conspiracy theorists missed out on not having a Roman Catholic upbringing.

A really complicated set of rules contained in a Catechism, belief in transubstantiation, services starting with mass at 6am, Angelus at 12 Benediction at 3pm and evening mass to round the day off. And confession whenever you felt the need to unburden yourself.

And the Saints! Hundreds of them and you could set up your own little cult based on some obscure saint who suffered a terrible death at the hands of heathens,
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Offline Jiminy Cricket

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Re: UAPs over America: real or balloons??
« Reply #1805 on: October 4, 2023, 08:34:02 pm »
Conspiracy theorists missed out on not having a Roman Catholic upbringing.

A really complicated set of rules contained in a Catechism, belief in transubstantiation, services starting with mass at 6am, Angelus at 12 Benediction at 3pm and evening mass to round the day off. And confession whenever you felt the need to unburden yourself.

And the Saints! Hundreds of them and you could set up your own little cult based on some obscure saint who suffered a terrible death at the hands of heathens,
.
I wonder what is the percentage of CT believers who come from a religious background (or, more specifically, RC). My background is RC too, but by the sounds of it, you might have been more deeply indoctrinated than me. There is a beauty to much of Catholicism (I mean the trappings). And some people need the certainty provided by religious faith. So, maybe, CT believers have a similar need for certainty, but were not provided this in their formative years via more regular religious routes.

I am not really convinced of this, but there could be something to it.
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Offline BarryCrocker

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Re: UAPs over America: real or balloons??
« Reply #1806 on: October 4, 2023, 10:42:27 pm »
Everything is a conspiracy.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/oct/03/fema-test-emergency-alert-oct-4

Is this going to be the trigger to activate the 'kill switch' in all the people who for the Covid-19 vaccine?
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Offline Jiminy Cricket

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Re: UAPs over America: real or balloons??
« Reply #1807 on: October 5, 2023, 11:23:35 am »
Is this going to be the trigger to activate the 'kill switch' in all the people who for the Covid-19 vaccine?
This surely must be the fear. Presumably, it is alien technology.
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Offline So… Howard Philips

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Re: UAPs over America: real or balloons??
« Reply #1808 on: October 5, 2023, 11:36:53 am »
I wonder what is the percentage of CT believers who come from a religious background (or, more specifically, RC). My background is RC too, but by the sounds of it, you might have been more deeply indoctrinated than me. There is a beauty to much of Catholicism (I mean the trappings). And some people need the certainty provided by religious faith. So, maybe, CT believers have a similar need for certainty, but were not provided this in their formative years via more regular religious routes.

I am not really convinced of this, but there could be something to it.

I enjoy visiting churches for a bit of peace and quiet and enjoy the calm and lingering aroma of incense.

Nit during services I hasten to add.

Offline Jiminy Cricket

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Re: UAPs over America: real or balloons??
« Reply #1809 on: October 5, 2023, 01:00:21 pm »
I enjoy visiting churches for a bit of peace and quiet and enjoy the calm and lingering aroma of incense.

Nit during services I hasten to add.
Yep. The RC Church do churches very well. Even their modern churches can be quite something. I was in Geneva about 25 years ago and happened upon a church that was spherical!

https://www.flickr.com/photos/stonechat/4198229278/

https://www.reddit.com/r/architecture/comments/nl72zw/geneva_switzerlands_strange_spherical_church_the/
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Offline Dr. Beaker

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Re: UAPs over America: real or balloons??
« Reply #1810 on: October 6, 2023, 08:45:58 pm »
I enjoy visiting churches for a bit of peace and quiet and enjoy the calm and lingering aroma of incense.

Nit during services I hasten to add.
I haven't got a religious bone in me body and I always visit churches wherever I go. But I also like religious art and love the choral music of the Russian Orthodox church, it's the pathetic desperation that sincerely moves me (in both) - must be something to do with the human condition I suppose but I don't really know what that means.

I was in Ukraine a couple of years ago and happened into a magnificent church choir that almost had me in tears, you can't beat a load of barrel-chested blokes wiith massive beards and big hats - could have stayed there all day.
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Offline PROPER crazyemlyn72

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Re: UAPs over America: real or balloons??
« Reply #1811 on: October 26, 2023, 12:19:02 pm »
SCIF meeting today. I wonder will anything leak later.

Offline lionel_messias

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Re: UAPs over America: real or balloons??
« Reply #1812 on: October 27, 2023, 12:15:18 pm »
Putting this up without a tin-foil hat on.

Since the New York Times reported a $22 million budget (peanuts) was secured for UAP (UFOs) study by the late Congressman, Harry Reid, then I guess we can call this a news story. The Times published a major and now famous article on this in 2017. It proved that the Pentagon and US military were actively looking into this issue.

Yet for 70+ years, this has been a joke and money-maker for Hollywood.

Further US intelligence reports have been made public since 2021, stating UAP are real, and many incidents reported by trained and serious observers are not explained or explainable.

Here's a Politico article: https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/02/28/ufo-uap-navy-intelligence-00084537


So many many jokes are possible and the world has very serious problems elsewhere but what gives?


Two US folk who are very very credible are looking into UAP:


Prof Avi Loeb, who is head of Astronomy at Harvard (see: Galileo program)


Ryan Graves, a former F18 Fighter pilot who has seen a lot and has formed an Aviation sub-committee to bring experts to study this.


If you want to listen to a really fascinating podcast, Ryan Graves interviews either pilots, aviators or scientists on the topic with his Merged podcast. He is not a believer of anything, there are no crazies or attention seekers, so the tone is of an investigation into an aviation safety issue. It's pretty wild when you listen to it.


Maybe, the silly season on this could be over soon...




*this thread may well die on its arse or never be a thing but The White House thought it was a thing when they hastily assembled a team to look at this.


Been an interesting year for the topic. Can't believe it's only been since March when I put the first post up.

Not been too much fun in the thread, if I'm honest, some perhaps at times.

I'm bowing out until next year without comment really.

Some congressmen and women are trying to get information out of the DoD. They are not getting very far!

Senators, Marco Rubio and Chuck Schumer are the ones who will know most as to what exactly is going on, as members of the 'Gang of Eight' with security clearance.

Will we find out more next year, as America elects a new president? Time will tell.
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Offline Alan_X

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Re: UAPs over America: real or balloons??
« Reply #1813 on: October 27, 2023, 12:40:48 pm »
For a story that was going to turn the world upside down it must have been a bit disappointing.
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Offline Jiminy Cricket

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Re: UAPs over America: real or balloons??
« Reply #1814 on: October 27, 2023, 12:54:08 pm »

Been an interesting year for the topic. Can't believe it's only been since March when I put the first post up.

Not been too much fun in the thread, if I'm honest, some perhaps at times.

I'm bowing out until next year without comment really.

Some congressmen and women are trying to get information out of the DoD. They are not getting very far!

Senators, Marco Rubio and Chuck Schumer are the ones who will know most as to what exactly is going on, as members of the 'Gang of Eight' with security clearance.

Will we find out more next year, as America elects a new president? Time will tell.
Why? What 'credible' world-shattering news do you anticipate being revealed next year? I'm on the edge of my seat.
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Offline lionel_messias

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Re: UAPs over America: real or balloons??
« Reply #1815 on: October 27, 2023, 02:33:41 pm »
For a story that was going to turn the world upside down it must have been a bit disappointing.

Not really, journey over the destination and that.

I believe in people, and I have learnt a bit.

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Offline Alan_X

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Re: UAPs over America: real or balloons??
« Reply #1816 on: October 27, 2023, 02:42:51 pm »
Theres a lot wheel spinning and getting nowhere.
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Offline lionel_messias

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Re: UAPs over America: real or balloons??
« Reply #1817 on: October 27, 2023, 03:54:44 pm »
Theres a lot wheel spinning and getting nowhere.

If some of this passes into law: https://paradigmresearchgroup.org/2024-NDAA-Senate.pdf

That ain't nowhere!

Where it takes us, only a fool would predict.
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Offline [new username under construction]

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Re: UAPs over America: real or balloons??
« Reply #1818 on: October 27, 2023, 05:12:36 pm »
If some of this passes into law: https://paradigmresearchgroup.org/2024-NDAA-Senate.pdf

That ain't nowhere!

Where it takes us, only a fool would predict.

Isn't it obvious now though that the US military won't answer to anyone over this, it doesn't matter what is passed, things will be "lost" or moved or just shifted for national security reasons. The public need to get to the bottom of it without the military, that much is clear

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Re: UAPs over America: real or balloons??
« Reply #1819 on: October 27, 2023, 05:14:56 pm »
Don’t these aliens impinge on the airspace of other military powers with large empty territories like Russia and China?

Why do the American military hold the secret keys?

Offline [new username under construction]

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Re: UAPs over America: real or balloons??
« Reply #1820 on: October 27, 2023, 07:49:48 pm »
Don’t these aliens impinge on the airspace of other military powers with large empty territories like Russia and China?

Why do the American military hold the secret keys?

Apparently they do but again we hear nothing

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Re: UAPs over America: real or balloons??
« Reply #1821 on: October 27, 2023, 07:53:59 pm »
Apparently they do but again we hear nothing

So all of these militaries and their respective governments are keeping this secret?

Sounds conveniently vague and feeds into any theory you want to espouse.

Offline Alan_X

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Re: UAPs over America: real or balloons??
« Reply #1822 on: October 27, 2023, 08:40:34 pm »
If some of this passes into law: https://paradigmresearchgroup.org/2024-NDAA-Senate.pdf

That ain't nowhere!

Where it takes us, only a fool would predict.

Call me a fool because I predict it goes nowhere for the simple reason there’s no evidence of non human intelligence or extra terrestrial craft ever having visited Earth. But that’s fine because it means the grift goes on.
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Offline [new username under construction]

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Re: UAPs over America: real or balloons??
« Reply #1823 on: October 27, 2023, 09:10:33 pm »
So all of these militaries and their respective governments are keeping this secret?

Sounds conveniently vague and feeds into any theory you want to espouse.


Well maybe not, maybe they are just not there? But certainly the US military loves keeping peopple in the dark, propbably to syphon money

Offline lionel_messias

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Re: UAPs over America: real or balloons??
« Reply #1824 on: October 27, 2023, 11:35:51 pm »
Call me a fool because I predict it goes nowhere for the simple reason there’s no evidence of non human intelligence or extra terrestrial craft ever having visited Earth. But that’s fine because it means the grift goes on.

As has been said before, either a whole bunch of unrelated (and credentialed) people are crazy
or something supremely interesting is going on:

https://thehill.com/opinion/technology/4277128-technology-surprise-are-china-and-russia-ahead-of-us-in-ufo-retrieval-research/
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Re: UAPs over America: real or balloons??
« Reply #1825 on: October 28, 2023, 01:00:08 am »
After dumping a "bowing out without comment" into the thread, Lionel has instead decided to belatedly pinch a false dichotomy off. Still, I suppose engaging in logical fallacies is preferable to their usual outright dishonesty. Maybe next year they may yet rise to rank of "poster of a comment worth reading", it's important to have aspirations. Luckily I'm on the ignore list of the usual suspects so I'm 100% safe from blowback for that comment, which some might say was inflammatory. Lionel will just have to gnash their teeth when they furtively 'unhide' the post to check out my latest pearls of wisdom.

Anyway, unlike Lionel's morose assessment earlier, this thread has been an enjoyable ride all year. Conspiracists turn up, they squirm under scrutiny, they get flustered and leave, vowing never to return (until later that day). Guys, if you'd just try honesty as a policy, you'd get a lot more out of life. Endlessly scrutinising your own posting history so you don't contradict yourself is going to make anything a chore. And special shoutout to Bobber, Thanks - don't outright lie about things your interlocuters have posted! It's all there for everyone to read, you silly goose! It's tough to be a kid on the internet, but you'll learn.

In summary, I'd like to thank Alan_X for engaging seriously with the inanity so nobody else had to, and of course my good pal Jiminy 'Jilikers' Cricket for picking up the slack when I wasn't available to disabuse fools of their foolishness. Not that they ever listened! Too many others to thank, but I think an award for all of us is in order for managing to retain a sense of reality, even when half the world seems to be giving up on it.

So let's all come together, sing kumbaya and hope that 2024 sees undisputable proof of UFOs, aliens and whatnot. Our resident space cadets could do with a win after this year's slings and arrows.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2023, 03:22:12 am by Riquende »
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Offline Dr. Beaker

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Re: UAPs over America: real or balloons??
« Reply #1826 on: October 28, 2023, 11:02:08 am »
I'm sure I was reading the other day about astronomers (once again) suspecting the presence of another planet with an eccentric orbit - long suspected because of unexplained wobbles in some of the outer planet's orbits. Why haven't our UFO fans been on that one? There are some great yarns about the tenth planet or whatever it is - Sitchin even has a name for it, and some great stories (whether you believe them or not).
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Offline Jiminy Cricket

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Re: UAPs over America: real or balloons??
« Reply #1827 on: October 28, 2023, 01:24:44 pm »
After dumping a "bowing out without comment" into the thread, Lionel has instead decided to belatedly pinch a false dichotomy off. Still, I suppose engaging in logical fallacies is preferable to their usual outright dishonesty. Maybe next year they may yet rise to rank of "poster of a comment worth reading", it's important to have aspirations. Luckily I'm on the ignore list of the usual suspects so I'm 100% safe from blowback for that comment, which some might say was inflammatory. Lionel will just have to gnash their teeth when they furtively 'unhide' the post to check out my latest pearls of wisdom.
Luckily, I'm ignore too. So my quoting you here will not expose you to their killer-rebuttals.
Quote
Anyway, unlike Lionel's morose assessment earlier, this thread has been an enjoyable ride all year. Conspiracists turn up, they squirm under scrutiny, they get flustered and leave, vowing never to return (until later that day). Guys, if you'd just try honesty as a policy, you'd get a lot more out of life. Endlessly scrutinising your own posting history so you don't contradict yourself is going to make anything a chore. And special shoutout to Bobber, Thanks - don't outright lie about things your interlocuters have posted! It's all there for everyone to read, you silly goose! It's tough to be a kid on the internet, but you'll learn.
If I contradict myself, it is either because I was unsure of my original position, or I have learned something. 'Learning something' is surely nothing to fear and should be embraced. Alas, it does not seem to work this way with belief systems. Any deviance is something to fear, especially if it is foundational, as the whole belief structure in liable to collapse.
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In summary, I'd like to thank Alan_X for engaging seriously with the inanity so nobody else had to, and of course my good pal Jiminy 'Jilikers' Cricket for picking up the slack when I wasn't available to disabuse fools of their foolishness. Not that they ever listened! Too many others to thank, but I think an award for all of us is in order for managing to retain a sense of reality, even when half the world seems to be giving up on it.
I have stated - a couple of times, I think - that Alan_X must have the patience of saint. His dissections of the 'evidence' presented should be devastating, and is for any rational reader. Whereas, I neither have the detailed knowledge of the subject, nor the patience to tackle it in such detail.

Unfortunately, not everyone is willing to step back and consider that they need to turn 'finding evidence in support their beliefs' on its head. They are being grifted; they are exploited. I've written this several times: it is a belief system, even a cult. The test would be for them to question any of their foundational beliefs in a 'friendly setting' and see how the other inductees react. The Guardian article I linked a few weeks ago details the likely reaction:

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/oct/04/escape-from-the-rabbit-hole-the-conspiracy-theorist-who-abandoned-his-dangerous-beliefs

I enjoyed your limited run of short stories a few pages back. Maybe if the cultists return next year, it will inspire you to pen a second series. But some do not understand that ridicule of ridiculous claims is a valid reaction.
Quote
So let's all come together, sing kumbaya and hope that 2024 sees undisputable proof of UFOs, aliens and whatnot. Our resident space cadets could do with a win after this year's slings and arrows.
The thing is, I doubt any of us here would be unhappy to discover irrefutable evidence for alien life (unless they are malevolent and local). But there is not even tantalising evidence for any alien life anywhere. Whereas, believers are in love with the idea of intelligent alien life. If the universe is of infinite size, then logic dictates there must be infinate amount of alien life and even an infinite number of intelligent civilisations out there (but this does not mean they are cosmically local and detectable). If the universe is finite, and since we do not know enough about abiogenesis, we cannot even create reasonable estimates of probability for alien life. And that's about all we can say about the existence of (intelligent) alien life. But perhaps the believers grew up with Star Trek (or Star Wars, etc.) and failed to understand in their formative years that these are works of fiction. If, however, they formed these unshakeable beliefs in adulthood, that's cultic in my book.

Unfortunately, for some, whenever presented with something which is not immediately explainable to them through ordinary phenomena, they will jump to 'alien'. And when the ordinary phenomena is explained to them (by Alan), it is too late - their belief system has already absorbed it. And woe betide if ever something occurs which has everyone scratching their heads, because then, this will be proof positive of 'aliens' rather than something which is purely unexplained.

I hope Lionel and the others return. But is it really too much to ask that they step back from their ready-formed conclusions and examine the 'evidence' dispassionately and rationally!? (Yeah, it is probably is asking too much).
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Offline Jiminy Cricket

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Re: UAPs over America: real or balloons??
« Reply #1828 on: October 28, 2023, 01:26:08 pm »
I'm sure I was reading the other day about astronomers (once again) suspecting the presence of another planet with an eccentric orbit - long suspected because of unexplained wobbles in some of the outer planet's orbits. Why haven't our UFO fans been on that one? There are some great yarns about the tenth planet or whatever it is - Sitchin even has a name for it, and some great stories (whether you believe them or not).
Will you please stop feeding the beast! :P
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Re: UAPs over America: real or balloons??
« Reply #1829 on: October 28, 2023, 02:38:06 pm »
Will you please stop feeding the beast! :P
Sussed.
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Re: UAPs over America: real or balloons??
« Reply #1830 on: October 28, 2023, 03:35:47 pm »
I'm sure I was reading the other day about astronomers (once again) suspecting the presence of another planet with an eccentric orbit - long suspected because of unexplained wobbles in some of the outer planet's orbits. Why haven't our UFO fans been on that one? There are some great yarns about the tenth planet or whatever it is - Sitchin even has a name for it, and some great stories (whether you believe them or not).


That's the home of the Draco aliens.
We have a super secret space force trained in telepathy to help keep us safe from them, based on Mars.


Offline Dr. Beaker

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Re: UAPs over America: real or balloons??
« Reply #1831 on: October 28, 2023, 07:44:00 pm »

That's the home of the Draco aliens.
We have a super secret space force trained in telepathy to help keep us safe from them, based on Mars.


Phew!
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Offline thejbs

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Re: UAPs over America: real or balloons??
« Reply #1832 on: October 31, 2023, 07:17:06 am »
Not UAP, but how is the BBC giving such credence to this rubbish? From headline all the way through, there is no challenges or balance.

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Re: UAPs over America: real or balloons??
« Reply #1833 on: October 31, 2023, 10:04:44 am »
Not UAP, but how is the BBC giving such credence to this rubbish? From headline all the way through, there is no challenges or balance.

Cairndhu House: The most haunted house in Northern Ireland https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-67263847

Clickbait.
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Offline thejbs

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Re: UAPs over America: real or balloons??
« Reply #1834 on: October 31, 2023, 12:02:31 pm »
Yeah, but why does bbc news need clickbait? It’s pure tabloid.

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Re: UAPs over America: real or balloons??
« Reply #1835 on: November 22, 2023, 06:18:48 pm »
Grusch was on Rogan yesterday. I'm a believer.

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Re: UAPs over America: real or balloons??
« Reply #1836 on: November 22, 2023, 07:17:22 pm »
Grusch was on Rogan yesterday. I'm a believer.

Yeah, it does seem like we are in the midst of the early stages of a controlled disclosure. Christopher Melons new article is really good

https://thedebrief.org/disclosure-and-national-security-should-the-u-s-government-reveal-what-it-knows-about-uap/

Then there was the Sol conference last weekend, where Karl Nell, Gruschs old boss made a presentation of which is covered really well by Matt Ford and his guest here, who both attended.

https://www.youtube.com/live/ooIHtPOvzaA?si=W610mBwC-4lzwPA0

And more on the Sol Foundation and its mission

https://thesolfoundation.org/about/



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Re: UAPs over America: real or balloons??
« Reply #1837 on: November 22, 2023, 07:26:54 pm »
Isn't Nell rumoured to be taking over from Sean Kirkpatrick?

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Re: UAPs over America: real or balloons??
« Reply #1838 on: November 22, 2023, 07:41:10 pm »
There has been some rumours, I don’t think he’d be the right type of person for the job unless the DOD are suddenly going to become transparent, which is unlikely. And when Nell was asked the weekend, he simply said don’t believe everything you read.

But it does seem there’s a real effort at disclosure underway, to try and do it in a responsible manner. I don’t know if it will be successful. The outcome of the Schumer UAP amendment should be known soon. It’s passed the Senate, but held up in the House.

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Re: UAPs over America: real or balloons??
« Reply #1839 on: November 22, 2023, 08:15:50 pm »
Yeah, it does seem like we are in the midst of the early stages of a controlled disclosure. Christopher Melons new article is really good
And when this - yet again - amounts to nothing, how long will it take before there is a new 'controlled disclosure' is just around the corner? How many times will this need to occur before you begin to suspect that it will never happen and it is just one giant grift?
would rather have a wank wearing a barb wire glove
If you're chasing thrills, try a bit of auto-asphyxiation with a poppers-soaked orange in your gob.