Poll

How do we think the UK Will do - Assuming Brexit happens (Hard or Soft..)

Things will be brilliant from the word go and will get better every week!
Things will start off a bit dodgy, but over time things gradually improve and get better
Things will start off dodgy and remain that way for the forseeable future
Things will start off dodgy and then decline slightly with things getting a bit worse
Complete clusterfuck from start to finish

Author Topic: Brexit - doesn't really seem to be a very good idea does it? (*)  (Read 870348 times)

Offline Jiminy Cricket

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Am not sure leave supporters fully understood the situation when they voted leave.
We want a hard Brexit they said, were fed up paying the EU money,they should be paying us.
We dont need the EU we will make deals all over the world,they can p.. off with their rules and regulations, we've got our country back.  blah,blah.blah.
Now the negotiations have started their arguing why are the EU forcing a hard Brexit on this country.
Why are the EU not prepared to do a deal, ba.... all they care about is punishing us.
I wonder when it will dawn on them that they've given the most right wing Tory government in generations complete control and without no accountability the power to restructure our country as they please. no wonder Rees-Moggs pis.... himself laughing.

Not until it is too late.
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Offline killer-heels

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Mr Wetherspoons strikes again.

http://www.morningadvertiser.co.uk/Legal/Legislation/Theresa-May-s-immigration-target-concerns-pub-trade-figures

The Next boss, who donated 50k to Leave, said the day after the vote that he doesnt want to see any restrictions on immigration.

Thats what I find funny about these Leftist's, Right wing free market thinkers and all these Libertarians. They all wanted Brexit but cannot accept that the main reason this country voted for it was to reduce immigration. They refuse to acknowledge that.

Online oldfordie

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Not until it is too late.
Yep and they will just moan about politicians being all the same and not bother voting.
It might take our producers five minutes to find 60 economists who feared Brexit and five hours to find a sole voice who espoused it.
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Offline killer-heels

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Re: Brexit - What would those in power get out of it? The Fallout Thread..
« Reply #4724 on: May 10, 2017, 12:04:34 am »
I think that the rest of the EU assume that the UK is leaving, and probably under hard terms. After all, May, the government, and the populist UK media have heavily telegraphed this, and the official opposition are happy to play along too. So, Juncker is playing to his constituency, not the UK's. I doubt he thinks his words (no matter the words he might choose) will matter one jot in how the UK proceeds. If that' his calculation (and I'm pretty sure it is), I think his assessment is correct.

Thats fair enough. Personally i hope they damage the shit out of this country sp I guess i am all for his comments that the UK should be made to suffer and cannot make a success of this.

Offline ShakaHislop

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Re: Brexit - What would those in power get out of it? The Fallout Thread..
« Reply #4725 on: May 10, 2017, 11:51:46 am »
Taking back control...

Freight bosses fear French president Emmanuel Macron would spark gridlock across Kent by tearing up Le Touquet Treaty

The Tunbridge Wells-based FTA says moving border controls back to the UK from France would be “catastrophic” for the industry

Theresa May is being urged to hold crunch talks with the newly-elected French president over fears his plans to tear up a crucial treaty between the two countries would spark gridlock across Kent.

Freight bosses are calling on the prime minister to convince Emmanuel Macron not to renegotiate the agreement which permits British border officials to operate on French soil, known as Le Touquet Treaty, as he suggested he could throughout his recent election campaign.

The Tunbridge Wells-based Freight Transport Association (FTA) warns the agreement is instrumental in preventing unnecessary congestion occurring at Britain’s ports, and ensuring the continued movement of goods between the UK and continental Europe with as little delay as possible.

Mr Macron reportedly told Mrs May when they met at Downing Street in February he was willing to work to “improve” the deal signed in 2003, but greater assurance is needed over the coming weeks and months, according to the industry.

“The repatriation of border controls to the UK from France would have disastrous effects on the UK’s logistics industry, as well as on general traffic through the Channel ports,” said Pauline Bastidon, FTA’s head of European policy.

“The Port of Dover has insufficient space to accommodate additional immigration checks – implementing such a change on UK soil would severely disrupt the cross-Channel flow of goods.

“At the current levels of activity, it would mean that supply chains are slowed down, with lengthy delays for both passenger and freight transport.

“This could, in turn, be catastrophic for just-in-time supply chains and cargoes of a time-sensitive nature, such as perishable goods.

“There is also the risk of giving the impression to people smugglers that the French border is now ‘open’, which could lead to a return of large numbers of migrants heading to the UK.

“This would increase the safety risks for drivers, who would once again see their vehicles targeted as they approached the Channel ports.

“Currently, checks are undertaken before trucks leave the Continent, removing stowaways before the vehicles board ferries or enter the Channel Tunnel.

“Removing this possibility would also place operators in a difficult situation and make them even more liable for the heavy penalties imposed by UK Border Force when stowaways are found on board vehicles.

“Every year, around Ł119bn worth of trade passes through the maritime Calais-Dover route.

“Moving immigration controls would disrupt this valuable trade lifeline and cause significant delays on both sides of the Channel.

“We urge both governments to maintain the status quo, in order to protect cross-Channel trade which is of vital importance to both the UK and France.”

The prime minister responded this week by saying a discussion over border controls between the two countries would be on the cards after the general election next month.

During an election campaign visit in north-west London, Mrs May said: “It works for the benefit of both the UK and France and obviously in the government that is elected after June 8, we will be sitting down and talking to Monsieur Macron and others about how that system has worked both to the benefit of France, as well as for the benefit of the UK.”

However, the agreement has been criticised in France for leaving the country to deal with huge numbers of migrants attempting to travel to Kent, and the prime minister’s stance over the row was slammed by Liberal Democrat foreign affairs spokesman Tom Brake.

“Theresa May has adopted Ukip’s rhetoric, and now she is adopting their incompetence too,” he said.

“The Conservatives have repeatedly claimed that Brexit will have no impact on border agreements with France, but now the prime minister has admitted that they are up for negotiation.

“Changes to Le Touquet will mean an upheaval for people travelling across the Channel, risk making our country less secure, and are yet another consequence of the Conservative approach to Brexit.

“This is another clear reason why the British people must have the final say on the Brexit deal.”

Mr Macron was victorious over the far-right leader Marine Le Pen on Sunday, though there have been fears his pro-Europe stance will hinder Mrs May in her Brexit negotiations.

MEP for the south east and former Folkestone and Hythe candidate for Ukip, Janice Atkinson, told us earlier this year Kent would be “a safer place” if Mme Le Pen was elected, due to her pledge to end the free movement of migrants through France.

http://www.kentnews.co.uk/news/freight-bosses-fear-french-president-emmanuel-macron-would-spark-gridlock-across-kent-by-tearing-up-le-touquet-treaty-1-5010255

Offline Zeb

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Re: Brexit - What would those in power get out of it? The Fallout Thread..
« Reply #4726 on: May 11, 2017, 08:54:04 am »
Lot of friends at universities are saying loads are making huge cuts to staff numbers citing fears of the impact Brexit combining with new legislation.

Manchester is making the headlines but, from word of mouth, it seems like there are plenty more doing the same too: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/may/10/university-of-manchester-to-axe-171-staff-amid-brexit-concerns
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Offline Jiminy Cricket

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Re: Brexit - What would those in power get out of it? The Fallout Thread..
« Reply #4727 on: May 11, 2017, 06:01:02 pm »
It hasn't even started yet. The UK could go into a self-inflicted Depression. I don't think I'm exaggerating. There will be an inevitable positive feedback loop of job losses, increasing prices, inevitable grave fears about the UKs economic future, which will lead companies to cut investments and cut more jobs, which which will lead to more of the same. This is pretty obvious stuff to anyone who takes more a moment to think about it. Why the Tory government (and the UK public as a whole) is incapable of understanding this is giving me a stroke. If the UK electorate are unwilling to stop this at next month's GE, then I guess Brexit and all its consequences is 'the will of the people' after all. It's a tragedy that everyone else, their children, and future generations will have to pay the price too.
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Re: Brexit - What would those in power get out of it? The Fallout Thread..
« Reply #4728 on: May 11, 2017, 06:39:44 pm »
It hasn't even started yet. The UK could go into a self-inflicted Depression. I don't think I'm exaggerating. There will be an inevitable positive feedback loop of job losses, increasing prices, inevitable grave fears about the UKs economic future, which will lead companies to cut investments and cut more jobs, which which will lead to more of the same. This is pretty obvious stuff to anyone who takes more a moment to think about it. Why the Tory government (and the UK public as a whole) is incapable of understanding this is giving me a stroke. If the UK electorate are unwilling to stop this at next month's GE, then I guess Brexit and all its consequences is 'the will of the people' after all. It's a tragedy that everyone else, their children, and future generations will have to pay the price too.

The British public are thick as fuck. I argued like mad with leavers that they were being lied to, that the Tories would fuck us and the idiots continued to trot out the "take back our soverignty" mantra. Now I just hope that the places hardest hit are the ones who voted leave.
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Offline G1 Jockey 4(betfair)

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Re: Brexit - What would those in power get out of it? The Fallout Thread..
« Reply #4729 on: May 12, 2017, 02:12:57 pm »
It hasn't even started yet. The UK could go into a self-inflicted Depression. I don't think I'm exaggerating. There will be an inevitable positive feedback loop of job losses, increasing prices, inevitable grave fears about the UKs economic future, which will lead companies to cut investments and cut more jobs, which which will lead to more of the same. This is pretty obvious stuff to anyone who takes more a moment to think about it. Why the Tory government (and the UK public as a whole) is incapable of understanding this is giving me a stroke. If the UK electorate are unwilling to stop this at next month's GE, then I guess Brexit and all its consequences is 'the will of the people' after all. It's a tragedy that everyone else, their children, and future generations will have to pay the price too.

Think it will be worse than that even.
When supply dries up for housing that will fuel the problems.
more people in debt...government debt skyrocketing.
banks putting the squeeze on business and credit.

We arent a country who has natural resources.

Emerging nations are under cutting us so we arent big players.

the economy will take a hit...everything will take a hit....except the national debt....

big problems ahead imo

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Offline SlowRap

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Re: Brexit - What would those in power get out of it? The Fallout Thread..
« Reply #4730 on: May 12, 2017, 04:53:36 pm »
Just about sick of remainers dissing this country, and this is from someone who has voted remain. GB survived long before the EU and it will survive long after.
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Re: Brexit - What would those in power get out of it? The Fallout Thread..
« Reply #4731 on: May 12, 2017, 05:01:15 pm »
Just about sick of remainers dissing this country, and this is from someone who has voted remain. GB survived long before the EU and it will survive long after.

I think that's a large part of the problem, the rose tinted glasses, britain is great blah blah. Some people seem to want to hark back to the days before EU, mid 70s and earlier when Britain was a powerhouse. Times change and Britain is no longer that powerhouse.

Offline Beav

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Re: Brexit - What would those in power get out of it? The Fallout Thread..
« Reply #4732 on: May 12, 2017, 05:03:24 pm »
Just about sick of remainers dissing this country, and this is from someone who has voted remain. GB survived long before the EU and it will survive long after.

Dont think anyone thinks the island will fall into the sea, more that everyone living here will likely be severely worse off for decades to come.

The idea you can "think positively" about this, and that will somehow change what an absolute disaster this all is, is ridiculous.
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Offline NaivetyinBlack

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Re: Brexit - What would those in power get out of it? The Fallout Thread..
« Reply #4733 on: May 12, 2017, 05:19:24 pm »
Just about sick of remainers dissing this country, and this is from someone who has voted remain. GB survived long before the EU and it will survive long after.

Surviving is not progressing / prospering.

I personally think there would be negative consequences very soon, with EU driving the hardest possible bargain in almost all treaties negotiated with member states. Areas like economy, immigration, trade and defense will be really tested.

As someone who is a mainland EU resident who frequently travels to GB, I just can't see anything positive to come out of this for the people of Britain. Maybe I'm wrong.

Offline killer-heels

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Re: Brexit - What would those in power get out of it? The Fallout Thread..
« Reply #4734 on: May 12, 2017, 05:21:44 pm »
Just about sick of remainers dissing this country, and this is from someone who has voted remain. GB survived long before the EU and it will survive long after.

Who cares if they diss the country? Is there some hurt feelings involved? I can understand pride over your town or city but not the country.

Offline TheShanklyGates

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Re: Brexit - What would those in power get out of it? The Fallout Thread..
« Reply #4735 on: May 12, 2017, 05:24:41 pm »
Just about sick of remainers dissing this country, and this is from someone who has voted remain. GB survived long before the EU and it will survive long after.

It was the leavers who seemed to think that this country was going to the dogs and that we needed to take back control from the wicked EU to save it.
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Re: Brexit - What would those in power get out of it? The Fallout Thread..
« Reply #4736 on: May 12, 2017, 05:51:19 pm »
Just about sick of remainers dissing this country, and this is from someone who has voted remain. GB survived long before the EU and it will survive long after.
Am sick of leave supporters dissing our dissing without any logical argument to show the dissing is unwarranted.
Why are you dissing the UK by referring to us as GB, do you think theres a chance Scotland and/or NI  will go for independence.
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Offline Zeb

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Re: Brexit - What would those in power get out of it? The Fallout Thread..
« Reply #4737 on: May 12, 2017, 05:51:39 pm »
I think that's a large part of the problem, the rose tinted glasses, britain is great blah blah. Some people seem to want to hark back to the days before EU, mid 70s and earlier when Britain was a powerhouse. Times change and Britain is no longer that powerhouse.

Mid-1870s perhaps? ;)

Quote
   Britain joined what was then the European Economic Community in 1973 as the sick man of Europe. By the late 1960s, France, West Germany and Italy — the three founder members closest in size to the UK — produced more per person than it did and the gap grew larger every year. Between 1958, when the EEC was set up, and Britain’s entry in 1973, gross domestic product per head rose 95 per cent in these three countries compared with only 50 per cent in Britain.

After becoming an EEC member, Britain slowly began to catch up. Gross domestic product per person has grown faster than Italy, Germany and France in the more than 40 years since. By 2013, Britain became more prosperous than the average of the three other large European economies for the first time since 1965.

Professor Nauro Campos of Brunel University has estimated how Britain would have fared if it had not joined the common market. He and his colleagues found the best approximation to Britain’s pre-1973 economic performance to be a combination of New Zealand and Argentina, which like the UK fell behind the US and continental Europe.

https://www.ft.com/content/202a60c0-cfd8-11e5-831d-09f7778e7377
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Re: Brexit - What would those in power get out of it? The Fallout Thread..
« Reply #4738 on: May 12, 2017, 06:07:02 pm »
Mid-1870s perhaps? ;)

https://www.ft.com/content/202a60c0-cfd8-11e5-831d-09f7778e7377

All right...all right...but apart from stopping us being the poor man of Europe,  increasing our GDP by a multiple, bringing us in line with our comparable neighbours, increased living standards, and stopped us having an economy comparable with new Zealand... what have the EU ever done for us?

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Re: Brexit - What would those in power get out of it? The Fallout Thread..
« Reply #4739 on: May 12, 2017, 06:38:19 pm »
Just about sick of remainers dissing this country, and this is from someone who has voted remain. GB survived long before the EU and it will survive long after.

Theresa May and the Brexit-obsessive are not this country. The narrative of them equating the country's interest to their interests to the exclusion of any other viewpoint is deeply damaging.


Offline Zeb

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Re: Brexit - What would those in power get out of it? The Fallout Thread..
« Reply #4740 on: May 12, 2017, 06:57:30 pm »
All right...all right...but apart from stopping us being the poor man of Europe,  increasing our GDP by a multiple, bringing us in line with our comparable neighbours, increased living standards, and stopped us having an economy comparable with new Zealand... what have the EU ever done for us?

 ;D

For the honorable member for the 19th century and Theresa May to make the case that magical thinking can replace free trade with our closest neighbours and partners now. I suppose at least flag manufacturers should be in for boom times.
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Offline naka

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Re: Brexit - What would those in power get out of it? The Fallout Thread..
« Reply #4741 on: May 12, 2017, 08:46:47 pm »
Just about sick of remainers dissing this country, and this is from someone who has voted remain. GB survived long before the EU and it will survive long after.
hopefully it will survive long after with Northern Ireland as part of a united Ireland remaining in  the European Union :D

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Re: Brexit - What would those in power get out of it? The Fallout Thread..
« Reply #4742 on: May 12, 2017, 08:51:53 pm »
It hasn't even started yet. The UK could go into a self-inflicted Depression. I don't think I'm exaggerating. There will be an inevitable positive feedback loop of job losses, increasing prices, inevitable grave fears about the UKs economic future, which will lead companies to cut investments and cut more jobs, which which will lead to more of the same. This is pretty obvious stuff to anyone who takes more a moment to think about it. Why the Tory government (and the UK public as a whole) is incapable of understanding this is giving me a stroke. If the UK electorate are unwilling to stop this at next month's GE, then I guess Brexit and all its consequences is 'the will of the people' after all. It's a tragedy that everyone else, their children, and future generations will have to pay the price too.

Pull yourself together man.  Have you considered therapy?

Offline west_london_red

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Re: Brexit - What would those in power get out of it? The Fallout Thread..
« Reply #4743 on: May 12, 2017, 10:07:31 pm »
Just about sick of remainers dissing this country, and this is from someone who has voted remain. GB survived long before the EU and it will survive long after.

It's all gone a bit weird now, the vote to Leave has led to some extreme self loathing of the UK in some quarters along with the EU becoming some kind of wonder thing that does and can do no wrong.
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Offline killer-heels

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Re: Brexit - What would those in power get out of it? The Fallout Thread..
« Reply #4744 on: May 12, 2017, 10:38:33 pm »
It's all gone a bit weird now, the vote to Leave has led to some extreme self loathing of the UK in some quarters along with the EU becoming some kind of wonder thing that does and can do no wrong.

When immigration is the single biggest factor, there is a reason why things turn bitter.

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Re: Brexit - What would those in power get out of it? The Fallout Thread..
« Reply #4745 on: May 12, 2017, 11:29:13 pm »
It's all gone a bit weird now, the vote to Leave has led to some extreme self loathing of the UK in some quarters along with the EU becoming some kind of wonder thing that does and can do no wrong.
Thought things went very weird 10 months ago, it's weird watching idiots on QT making a fool of themselves every week trying to make a case for leaving the EU. arguing Bendy bananas and in the same breath saying their fed up people calling them idiots for not understanding the issues. now that is weird.
Still waiting for good reasons for leaving the EU, it is a massive decision. all we get is the Tory drum banging of get behind the country. I need a bit more than that to convince me that I should be positive over Brexit.
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Re: Brexit - What would those in power get out of it? The Fallout Thread..
« Reply #4746 on: May 13, 2017, 12:21:12 pm »
All right...all right...but apart from stopping us being the poor man of Europe,  increasing our GDP by a multiple, bringing us in line with our comparable neighbours, increased living standards, and stopped us having an economy comparable with new Zealand... what have the EU ever done for us?

Brought peace.

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Re: Brexit - What would those in power get out of it? The Fallout Thread..
« Reply #4747 on: May 13, 2017, 12:38:43 pm »
Thought things went very weird 10 months ago, it's weird watching idiots on QT making a fool of themselves every week trying to make a case for leaving the EU. arguing Bendy bananas and in the same breath saying their fed up people calling them idiots for not understanding the issues. now that is weird.
Still waiting for good reasons for leaving the EU, it is a massive decision. all we get is the Tory drum banging of get behind the country. I need a bit more than that to convince me that I should be positive over Brexit.


Brought peace.


This is kind of what I'm talking about, the annoyance with the UK with some OTT comments about the EU

There has been relative peace in Europe since the EU came into existence but I don't think you can categorically say that's because of the EU alone. Certainly NATO and fear of the USSR kept everyone on the same side for the first 40 years of the EU, nor would the US which pretty much guaranteed the security of Europe after 1945 have tolerated a war among its allies in Western Europe. And obviously people knew after WW2 how destructive war would be between European nations.
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Re: Brexit - What would those in power get out of it? The Fallout Thread..
« Reply #4748 on: May 13, 2017, 02:48:32 pm »

This is kind of what I'm talking about, the annoyance with the UK with some OTT comments about the EU

There has been relative peace in Europe since the EU came into existence but I don't think you can categorically say that's because of the EU alone. Certainly NATO and fear of the USSR kept everyone on the same side for the first 40 years of the EU, nor would the US which pretty much guaranteed the security of Europe after 1945 have tolerated a war among its allies in Western Europe. And obviously people knew after WW2 how destructive war would be between European nations.

Which is why they founded the EU. To ensure peace and prosperity within Europe. But absolute fucking fucktard wankers now want to throw it all away cos they're complete fuckwits.
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Re: Brexit - What would those in power get out of it? The Fallout Thread..
« Reply #4749 on: May 13, 2017, 06:24:33 pm »
Which is why they founded the EU. To ensure peace and prosperity within Europe. But absolute fucking fucktard wankers now want to throw it all away cos they're complete fuckwits.

Yes, but at the same time Brexit doesn't realistically increase the chance of war in Europe does it?
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Re: Brexit - What would those in power get out of it? The Fallout Thread..
« Reply #4750 on: May 13, 2017, 06:39:56 pm »
Yes, but at the same time Brexit doesn't realistically increase the chance of war in Europe does it?
What about the fisheries dispute. Frottage is really stirring the s,,, over this when he knows this is more of a maritime dispute more than a EU dispute.
Corbyn also has a very old fashioned view over WW1. many historians now believe we had no choice but to enter WW1 as we could never allow Germany to have control over so much trade. they would have dominated trade and grew very powerful if we had just stood by and kept out of it.
Trade is a very big factor in wars, you fight to protect your interests when disputes arise.
When we leave the EU disputes may well pop up. no ECJ to settle things amicably must mean situations become more volatile
It might take our producers five minutes to find 60 economists who feared Brexit and five hours to find a sole voice who espoused it.
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Re: Brexit - What would those in power get out of it? The Fallout Thread..
« Reply #4751 on: May 13, 2017, 10:24:23 pm »
It hasn't even started yet. The UK could go into a self-inflicted Depression. I don't think I'm exaggerating. There will be an inevitable positive feedback loop of job losses, increasing prices, inevitable grave fears about the UKs economic future, which will lead companies to cut investments and cut more jobs, which which will lead to more of the same. This is pretty obvious stuff to anyone who takes more a moment to think about it. Why the Tory government (and the UK public as a whole) is incapable of understanding this is giving me a stroke. If the UK electorate are unwilling to stop this at next month's GE, then I guess Brexit and all its consequences is 'the will of the people' after all. It's a tragedy that everyone else, their children, and future generations will have to pay the price too.
Pull yourself together man.  Have you considered therapy?

Frankly, I consider my previous comments rather restrained. Your attitude of let's be optimistic and everything will be OK is, at best, burying your head in the sand. But frankly, given all then obvious problematic consequences, and detailed analyses from experts (yeah, but you've probably 'had enough of them'), you are suffering from (as Zeb commented) 'magical thinking'. The UK was in a bad way before joining the EU and has done very well since. We joined for economic reasons, and since then, the economic case for being a member of the EU has only grown stronger. But racism and xenophobia seem to be stranger cards for too many in the UK, so that's that. Brexit it will be. A (hard) Brexit will be an economic disaster for the UK.

I will not attempt to predict the consequential social upheavals, except to say that I expect that they will be deep and very serious. But hey, good luck! Start tapping, and repeat, 'calm, calm, calm'. It'll be OK. :thumbup
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Re: Brexit - What would those in power get out of it? The Fallout Thread..
« Reply #4752 on: May 14, 2017, 07:15:04 am »
What about the fisheries dispute. Frottage is really stirring the s,,, over this when he knows this is more of a maritime dispute more than a EU dispute.
Corbyn also has a very old fashioned view over WW1. many historians now believe we had no choice but to enter WW1 as we could never allow Germany to have control over so much trade. they would have dominated trade and grew very powerful if we had just stood by and kept out of it.
Trade is a very big factor in wars, you fight to protect your interests when disputes arise.
When we leave the EU disputes may well pop up. no ECJ to settle things amicably must mean situations become more volatile

Realisticly it's never going to happen. Democracies very rarely go to war with each other (other then India and Pakistan) because it's bad for business. If my memory serves me correct the last time the UK declared war on a democracy was Finland in 1941 but even then there was no actual fighting.

Although when Germany finally declares the 4th Reich the EU may stop being classed a democracy  ;)
« Last Edit: May 14, 2017, 07:34:13 am by west_london_red »
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Re: Brexit - What would those in power get out of it? The Fallout Thread..
« Reply #4753 on: May 14, 2017, 10:48:49 am »
Pull yourself together man.  Have you considered therapy?


Frankly, I consider my previous comments rather restrained. Your attitude of let's be optimistic and everything will be OK is, at best, burying your head in the sand. But frankly, given all then obvious problematic consequences, and detailed analyses from experts (yeah, but you've probably 'had enough of them'), you are suffering from (as Zeb commented) 'magical thinking'. The UK was in a bad way before joining the EU and has done very well since. We joined for economic reasons, and since then, the economic case for being a member of the EU has only grown stronger. But racism and xenophobia seem to be stranger cards for too many in the UK, so that's that. Brexit it will be. A (hard) Brexit will be an economic disaster for the UK.

I will not attempt to predict the consequential social upheavals, except to say that I expect that they will be deep and very serious. But hey, good luck! Start tapping, and repeat, 'calm, calm, calm'. It'll be OK. :thumbup

Your apocalyptic talk of 'depression', 'tragedy', 'inevitable positive feedback loops', 'racism', 'xenophobia' and your potentially having a stroke at the thought of the consequences do your argument no favours at all.  You sound reactionary, obsessive and hyperbolic - you remind me of a UKIPer.  Is it not enough to suggest you feel some people will marginally worse off?  The EU is a wonderful idea, but a terribly flawed organisation.  I believe we'll miss out on some benefits by leaving, although we'll regain some too.  I find it hard to imagine that our departure will inevitably lead to a positive feedback loop of catastrophic economic collapse, the racist masses finally unleashed onto the streets and before we know it - the outbreak of another European war with our dead soldiers strewn over the battlefields of Europe - and nor do you, once you take a deep breath, stop indulging in social media nonsense and stop exaggerating for effect.

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Re: Brexit - What would those in power get out of it? The Fallout Thread..
« Reply #4754 on: May 14, 2017, 10:51:35 am »
Lot of friends at universities are saying loads are making huge cuts to staff numbers citing fears of the impact Brexit combining with new legislation.

Manchester is making the headlines but, from word of mouth, it seems like there are plenty more doing the same too: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/may/10/university-of-manchester-to-axe-171-staff-amid-brexit-concerns

I've got friends who work at Liverpool University. The job losses are shocking.
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Re: Brexit - What would those in power get out of it? The Fallout Thread..
« Reply #4755 on: May 14, 2017, 10:53:40 am »
Your apocalyptic talk of 'depression', 'tragedy', 'inevitable positive feedback loops', 'racism', 'xenophobia' and your potentially having a stroke at the thought of the consequences do your argument no favours at all.  You sound reactionary, obsessive and hyperbolic - you remind me of a UKIPer.  Is it not enough to suggest you feel some people will marginally worse off?  The EU is a wonderful idea, but a terribly flawed organisation.  I believe we'll miss out on some benefits by leaving, although we'll regain some too.  I find it hard to imagine that our departure will inevitably lead to a positive feedback loop of catastrophic economic collapse, the racist masses finally unleashed onto the streets and before we know it - the outbreak of another European war with our dead soldiers strewn over the battlefields of Europe - and nor do you, once you take a deep breath, stop indulging in social media nonsense and stop exaggerating for effect.

Do you know what Tories mean when they talk about 'Removing Red Tape' from businesses?

Brexiters are racist and idiots. Xenophobia at its absolute worst.

When you've screwed the country you'll all hide and cower and pretend you didn't do it to yourselves.
Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

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Re: Brexit - What would those in power get out of it? The Fallout Thread..
« Reply #4756 on: May 14, 2017, 10:56:30 am »
Brexiters are racist and idiots. Xenophobia at its absolute worst.

Grow up Andy

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Re: Brexit - What would those in power get out of it? The Fallout Thread..
« Reply #4757 on: May 14, 2017, 11:01:17 am »
Realisticly it's never going to happen. Democracies very rarely go to war with each other (other then India and Pakistan) because it's bad for business. If my memory serves me correct the last time the UK declared war on a democracy was Finland in 1941 but even then there was no actual fighting.

Although when Germany finally declares the 4th Reich the EU may stop being classed a democracy  ;)
Ive already given an example of how war can break out, the Fisheries dispute, Frottage is stirring the sh..and he's going to carry on doing it. we sent Gun Boats out to protect our fishing trawlers from an Icelandic attack in the 60s/70s.
You agreed with the fact the EU was founded on creating peaceful trading yet your arguing if we break away from the EU it will not increase the chances of some serious dispute arising that could lead to war.
I don't think we will be involved in any trade wars in the foreseeable future but that's not the point. the point is we are creating the conditions to make a trade war more possible, which takes us back to why the EU was formed.
It might take our producers five minutes to find 60 economists who feared Brexit and five hours to find a sole voice who espoused it.
“But by the time we went on air we simply had one of each; we presented this unequal effort to our audience as balance. It wasn’t.”
               Emily Maitlis

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Re: Brexit - What would those in power get out of it? The Fallout Thread..
« Reply #4758 on: May 14, 2017, 11:14:31 am »
Ive already given an example of how war can break out, the Fisheries dispute, Frottage is stirring the sh..and he's going to carry on doing it.

On a scale of 1 to 10, with 1 being highly unlikely and 10 being almost certain, how likely do you think it is that Brexit will lead to Nigel Frottage leading the UK into war with Iceland?  Should I be stocking up on Fish Fingers?

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Re: Brexit - What would those in power get out of it? The Fallout Thread..
« Reply #4759 on: May 14, 2017, 11:33:54 am »
Ive already given an example of how war can break out, the Fisheries dispute, Frottage is stirring the sh..and he's going to carry on doing it. we sent Gun Boats out to protect our fishing trawlers from an Icelandic attack in the 60s/70s.
You agreed with the fact the EU was founded on creating peaceful trading yet your arguing if we break away from the EU it will not increase the chances of some serious dispute arising that could lead to war.
I don't think we will be involved in any trade wars in the foreseeable future but that's not the point. the point is we are creating the conditions to make a trade war more possible, which takes us back to why the EU was formed.
how many people really care that much about fisheries anyway?

Besides didn't Frottage go to only 1 of something like 20 meetings about the fisheries as an MEP?