Author Topic: Liverpool's Midfield  (Read 1809849 times)

Offline steveeastend

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Re: Liverpool's Best Midfield Combination?
« Reply #400 on: October 24, 2014, 12:58:12 pm »
I can't believe that we need to throw it all away because we lost one player ?

Seriously, it's madness, no matter who that player is, stick to your principles.

Utd didn't rip it up and start again when Ronaldo left. Chelsea didn't when Drogba left




Chelsea and Utd had way better quality in their squad. Way better all over the pitch. Suarez was the key, you only have to look at Gerrards and Carras interviews back then, they knew it, it was all about him and without him the truth on the real quality of some players becomes visible. We have to change our system, unless our season will fall part, mark my words mate.


One thing does need to be said: in the post-Benitez era, there was media-led clamour (but also some politicking going on at the club) to make the club more English; the idea being that the club had lost the very essence of what it means to be ‘Liverpool’. Guillem Ballague 18/11/10

Offline redmark

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Re: Liverpool's Best Midfield Combination?
« Reply #401 on: October 24, 2014, 12:59:32 pm »

Chelsea and Utd had way better quality in their squad. Way better all over the pitch. Suarez was the key, you only have to look at Gerrards and Carras interviews back then, they knew it, it was all about him and without him the truth on the real quality of some players becomes visible. We have to change our system, unless our season will fall part, mark my words mate.

"incredibly overrated", as you described our squad in another thread.

I don't buy it.
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Offline steveeastend

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Re: Liverpool's Best Midfield Combination?
« Reply #402 on: October 24, 2014, 01:04:53 pm »
"incredibly overrated", as you described our squad in another thread.

I don't buy it.


I am not happy about that, but that's how I see it. We still got some top quality with Sturridge, Sterling, Coutinho, Balotelli when used the right way but that's about it. There are some talents, Manquilo, Moreno, Markovic, Can who are far from having reached PL proven quality but in regards to this topic I cannot see one top quality player in our midfield so we have to build a solid system with what we got first as our attacking quality isn't from the same intensity which would keep teams in their half WHILE being able to finish off games in the first half as we did last season. We had our problem controlling games in some games back then, it didn't matter though as we were already up by two for most of the time but THIS is gone, won't come back for that we need rethinking our overall tactical approach.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2014, 01:07:14 pm by steveeastend »
One thing does need to be said: in the post-Benitez era, there was media-led clamour (but also some politicking going on at the club) to make the club more English; the idea being that the club had lost the very essence of what it means to be ‘Liverpool’. Guillem Ballague 18/11/10

Offline L666KOP

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Re: Liverpool's Best Midfield Combination?
« Reply #403 on: October 24, 2014, 01:09:53 pm »
I am not happy about that, but that's how I see it. We still got some top quality with Sturridge, Sterling, Coutinho, Balotelli when used the right way but that's about it. There are some talents, Manquilo, Moreno, Markovic, Can who are far from having reached PL proven quality but in regards to this topic I cannot see one top quality player in our midfield so we have to build a solid system with what we got first as our attacking quality isn't from the same intensity which would keep teams in their half WHILE being able to finish off games in the first half as we did last season. We had our problem controlling games in some games back then, it didn't matter though as we were already up by two for most of the time but THIS is gone, won't come back for that we need rethinking our overall tactical approach.

But the midfield is the exact same one that was in the title race on the last day. We lost one player.

What you're saying is that Suarez carried the team, all season, and was the only reason we did what we did.

You're trying take my pants down here aren't you ?
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Offline redmark

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Re: Liverpool's Best Midfield Combination?
« Reply #404 on: October 24, 2014, 01:39:25 pm »
I am not happy about that, but that's how I see it. We still got some top quality with Sturridge, Sterling, Coutinho, Balotelli when used the right way but that's about it. There are some talents, Manquilo, Moreno, Markovic, Can who are far from having reached PL proven quality but in regards to this topic I cannot see one top quality player in our midfield so we have to build a solid system with what we got first as our attacking quality isn't from the same intensity which would keep teams in their half WHILE being able to finish off games in the first half as we did last season. We had our problem controlling games in some games back then, it didn't matter though as we were already up by two for most of the time but THIS is gone, won't come back for that we need rethinking our overall tactical approach.

A Rodgers team isn't going to put out two defensively minded DMs and scrap a 1-0. The one shift I think we could and perhaps should make is to focus on patient possession a bit more, probing for openings rather than trying to force them, particularly while missing Sturridge. But in that case it still isn't Gerrard who is detrimental to that objective. Allen (and Lucas) can provide slightly better 'control' than Gerrard or Henderson, but both lack a touch of their impact. I think Can will feature more, but he isn't a cautious DM.

Ultimately, Lallana is just bedding in, while Coutinho is just finding form. Whether we play a quick attacking game or a patient possessive one (or of course, ideally something of both) needs those two to be playing well. The exact shape and personnel behind them matters little if we're conceding possession easily and not threatening the opposition.

And all of that is irrelevant if you concede soft goals from corners.
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Offline steveeastend

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Re: Liverpool's Best Midfield Combination?
« Reply #405 on: October 24, 2014, 01:41:19 pm »
But the midfield is the exact same one that was in the title race on the last day. We lost one player.

What you're saying is that Suarez carried the team, all season, and was the only reason we did what we did.

You're trying take my pants down here aren't you ?
 :D

Yeah, I am saying that Suarez carried the team and was key to we did what we did. With the key player for that gone, it doesn't work anymore. No need for taking off your pants though mate ;)
« Last Edit: October 24, 2014, 05:50:23 pm by steveeastend »
One thing does need to be said: in the post-Benitez era, there was media-led clamour (but also some politicking going on at the club) to make the club more English; the idea being that the club had lost the very essence of what it means to be ‘Liverpool’. Guillem Ballague 18/11/10

Offline steveeastend

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Re: Liverpool's Best Midfield Combination?
« Reply #406 on: October 24, 2014, 01:44:33 pm »
A Rodgers team...

And all of that is irrelevant if you concede soft goals from corners.


Ah, now it's getting interesting... as important a Drogba style of player is for a Mourinho team, now they got Costa and it for sure makes a hell of a difference, as important it was for Rodgers team of last season to have a mobile and top quality front three like we had with Sterling, Suarez and Sturridge. Either we bought a direct replacement for Suarez or we have to adopt.

I swear I can remember that we did quite well with a passing game when Rodgers started out though? Why not going back to that when last seasons style of play obviously doesn't work with Mario and/or Lambert? And what was the thinking behind those two signings as they have nothing to do with Suarez overall style anyway...

A Rodgers team obviously will always concede at set pieces, maybe we have to get used to that but for some reason I think it had to do with Johnson and Moreno being totally out of position, with Moreno there is hope, Johnson should be out by now though.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2014, 01:46:51 pm by steveeastend »
One thing does need to be said: in the post-Benitez era, there was media-led clamour (but also some politicking going on at the club) to make the club more English; the idea being that the club had lost the very essence of what it means to be ‘Liverpool’. Guillem Ballague 18/11/10

Offline scumbagcollege

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Re: Liverpool's Best Midfield Combination?
« Reply #407 on: October 24, 2014, 04:06:15 pm »
I can't believe that we need to throw it all away because we lost one player ?

Seriously, it's madness, no matter who that player is, stick to your principles.

Utd didn't rip it up and start again when Ronaldo left. Chelsea didn't when Drogba left.

If you do what you suggest then we'll be in a constant state of flux, it's akin to sacking your manager after a bad season.
Wasn't it a case of Brendan stumbling on last seasons system though?
Was'nt the original plan 4-3-3, with the favoured  3-3 being something like Allen, Siggurdsen, Gerrard.
Dempsey, Suarez, Borini?

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Offline wemmick

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Re: Liverpool's Best Midfield Combination?
« Reply #408 on: October 24, 2014, 04:19:10 pm »
I wouldn't have Balotelli anywhere near the side, he just doesn't 'fit' how we play.

Sterling would be my choice as a partner for Daniel until we get Origi. I'd prefer us to go back to using our pace. But the key last year was not players with pace, it was the pace at which we shifted the ball that was key. I've yet to see a player that can run as quick as a pass.
 We need someone that keeps defenders 'honest'. Mario doesn't, he can be shut out of games to easily, what outstanding attribute does he have ? Sterling has pace, Lallana has the unerring ability to play equally as well with both feet. Either one of those I'd try out as a partner for Daniel.
We spent a shed load of money in the summer fattening the squad with players we were assured were for the main part 'ready'. We should be able to put a front six out that can in some part replicate last season's attacking verve, Suarez or not.

You make fair points. I think Origi will give us more power up. From what I've seen he is strong and can drive at defenders with success on and off the ball. I'm not ready to give up on Balotelli yet. He has pace, power, and can dribble well at speed. Right now he is having a tough time learning to play the cf position utilizing his power and skill without constantly tussling with the defenders. It's a bad habit for the PL, and slows down our play to no end, but I know he can drive at defenders effectively for our system. I've seen him do it a few times every game he has played for us. He hasn't transitioned into playing that way all the time, and the jury is out if he will ever make the transition, but he has it in his locker. That's enough for me right now. Like all the other new signings I'll give him the rest of the season before I make further judgement.

I guess I would argue that our ability to transition quickly was largely built upon Suarez's power on and off the ball, by which I mean, the opposition could not stop him from running into their box without hacking him down. He could push defenders off of him with relative ease with and without the ball, or turn them with a bump and touch, or pass and finish at full speed with defenders hanging off of him. We don't have anyone who can give us that kind of consistent, high-level physical drive right now, but Can and Henderson in midfield can give us some of that. Sterling, Lallana and Allen slow down 90% of the time once they come near the edge of the box. Balotelli goes wide or stops even further upfield. Sturridge goes wide to avoid being hacked down when possible and slip into a pocket of space (as I would hope!). Coutinho drives but is frequently pushed off of the ball or gives it away under physical duress.

If Balotelli doesn't give us power then it has to come from midfield this season. I think we've been too easily bullied near the opposition box. Teams are just sitting off us because we can't drive through them except on occasion, and most of those occasions have involved Henderson!
« Last Edit: October 24, 2014, 04:58:53 pm by wemmick »

Offline Halcyon Lissome

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Re: Liverpool's Best Midfield Combination?
« Reply #409 on: October 24, 2014, 06:35:54 pm »
'Spot on. Look how easily Madrid kept the ball around our box. Even with two man mid field.

They don't have a 2 man midfield. At the very least, centrally, they have Modric, Kroos and Rodriguez. Against us even Isco was more or less a helping midfielder with Ronaldo as an auxiliary forward.

No offence to steve, but his argument is silly at best and just ignorant at worst. You'd think Suarez was making clearances on the goal line, dictating tempo in the midfield, creating his own chances which he finished, listening to him.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2014, 06:38:26 pm by Halcyon Lissome »
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Offline Mutton Geoff

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Re: Liverpool's Best Midfield Combination?
« Reply #410 on: October 24, 2014, 10:15:11 pm »
Yeah, I am saying that Suarez carried the team and was key to we did what we did. With the key player for that gone, it doesn't work anymore. No need for taking off your pants though mate ;)

so how many games did Suarez miss last season and why didn't we lose those games?

 Sorry but he didn't carry the team he had a good season as did most of the team and the luck went with us till near the end of the season.
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Offline GregCharrua

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Re: Liverpool's Best Midfield Combination?
« Reply #411 on: October 24, 2014, 10:24:51 pm »
He may not of carried the team but take him out and we don't get 2nd. Any stats about how great we were with him not in the side are never going to convince me he was just another man on the pitch for us given the size of the samples alone.

I miss him, but I find it hard to swallow this new narrative that Suarez was good but just part of a great squad. No, Suarez was great and part of a good squad. Without him we could never have played the diamond the way we did and it was that tactical shift alone that set us off on the races.

...and obviously our inability to continue playing the diamond without him means something...

Offline SerbianScouser

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Re: Liverpool's Best Midfield Combination?
« Reply #412 on: October 24, 2014, 10:39:00 pm »
...and obviously our inability to continue playing the diamond without him means something...
Not true though, we were excellent against Spurs playing diamond. Losing Suarez was a massive blow but losing Sturridge too is something hardly anyone could cope with.

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Re: Liverpool's Best Midfield Combination?
« Reply #413 on: October 24, 2014, 11:19:42 pm »
I agree with everything except the notion that we saw much of Gerrard's quality in yesterday's match.


Unlike Allen and Henderson, Gerrard showed that he has a quality first touch under pressure, assured and quick passes that finds a teammate rather than no one, and he made himself available with his movement too. I believe the stats back that up as well - didn't he have the most touches, passes and interceptions in our side? Think I read that on here.

Was he great? No, but it was a good performance against a much better side, where he was left with way too much to do on his own, especially during our build-up phase. He had a certain quality about him that Allen and Henderson certainly didn't display in this game.

Offline Mutton Geoff

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Re: Liverpool's Best Midfield Combination?
« Reply #414 on: October 24, 2014, 11:44:34 pm »
Let them lose their legs on someone else's pitch ! sadly Bob was right although I hated him selling Emlyn ,
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Offline steveeastend

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Re: Liverpool's Best Midfield Combination?
« Reply #415 on: October 25, 2014, 09:56:15 am »
so how many games did Suarez miss last season and why didn't we lose those games?

 Sorry but he didn't carry the team he had a good season as did most of the team and the luck went with us till near the end of the season.

He did mate. For the system we played last sesaon we lack the quality and type of players for that upfront. We have to change the way we play, unless the ship will sink.
One thing does need to be said: in the post-Benitez era, there was media-led clamour (but also some politicking going on at the club) to make the club more English; the idea being that the club had lost the very essence of what it means to be ‘Liverpool’. Guillem Ballague 18/11/10

Offline Melron

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Re: Liverpool's Best Midfield Combination?
« Reply #416 on: October 25, 2014, 11:40:15 am »
Would like to see us give this ago today an give Gerrard an Henderson a rest:

                                           Allan
                                   Can          coutinho
                                         Sterling


Offline Mutton Geoff

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Re: Liverpool's Best Midfield Combination?
« Reply #417 on: October 25, 2014, 02:47:23 pm »
He did mate. For the system we played last sesaon we lack the quality and type of players for that upfront. We have to change the way we play, unless the ship will sink.
No body ever carries a team unless they are everywhere on the pitch Suarez was as good as the people who passed to him ! It's a team game always remember that!
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Re: Liverpool's Best Midfield Combination?
« Reply #418 on: October 25, 2014, 02:57:42 pm »
Basically teflon Gerrard and 2 others.

Offline scumbagcollege

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Re: Liverpool's Best Midfield Combination?
« Reply #419 on: October 25, 2014, 05:13:14 pm »
Wouldnt mind seeing a Gerrardless midfield every now and again.
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Re: Liverpool's Best Midfield Combination?
« Reply #420 on: October 25, 2014, 05:29:00 pm »
What did Gerrard do wrong today?


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Re: Liverpool's Best Midfield Combination?
« Reply #421 on: October 25, 2014, 05:29:32 pm »
What did Gerrard do wrong today?

Nothing at all - second half he was magnificant, was very average first half.

Offline Humperdinck

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Re: Liverpool's Best Midfield Combination?
« Reply #422 on: October 25, 2014, 05:30:47 pm »
What did Gerrard do wrong today?

Nothing, scumbagcollege supports Lucas not the team so despises the competition ie Gerrard.

Offline wemmick

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Re: Liverpool's Best Midfield Combination?
« Reply #423 on: October 25, 2014, 05:32:01 pm »
What did Gerrard do wrong today?

Nothing much. Just looked really tired in the first half. I fear Gerrard will have an injury before too long if he keeps playing at this rate. I'd like to see Henderson, Can and Coutinho against Newcastle.

Offline indlfc

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Re: Liverpool's Best Midfield Combination?
« Reply #424 on: October 25, 2014, 05:33:00 pm »
What did Gerrard do wrong today?
Seriously. He was the only one created something before Coutinho came on .
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Re: Liverpool's Best Midfield Combination?
« Reply #425 on: October 25, 2014, 05:53:02 pm »
Can and Gerrard looked tired in first half, but in second they were much better. Allen had a poor game. Even Henderson managed to look tired during his short time. I don't know why Lallana was subbed - he's the one midfielder that tries to link up with Balotelli.

Offline scumbagcollege

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Re: Liverpool's Best Midfield Combination?
« Reply #426 on: October 25, 2014, 05:57:09 pm »
Nothing, scumbagcollege supports Lucas not the team so despises the competition ie Gerrard.
Ha ha, shut up Goat ;-)
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Offline astowell1

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Re: Liverpool's Best Midfield Combination?
« Reply #427 on: October 25, 2014, 06:09:08 pm »
I thought Gerrard had a decent enough game, I don't see the problem.  A few of his passes were stunning.

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Re: Liverpool's Best Midfield Combination?
« Reply #428 on: October 25, 2014, 06:12:12 pm »
Diamond -

                Markovic

Henderson             Coutinho
 
                   Can

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Re: Liverpool's Best Midfield Combination?
« Reply #429 on: October 25, 2014, 06:15:15 pm »
Diamond -

                Markovic

Henderson             Coutinho
 
                   Can
What games have you seen Can playing DM Mart?
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Re: Liverpool's Best Midfield Combination?
« Reply #430 on: October 25, 2014, 06:23:09 pm »
What games have you seen Can playing DM Mart?

The anyonebutLucas game :)

Rossiter absolutely bossed it tonight. Really believe he'll end up playing more games this season than Lucas.


Henderson won't make it here. Sorry but he won't and won't

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Re: Liverpool's Best Midfield Combination?
« Reply #431 on: October 25, 2014, 06:31:23 pm »
The anyonebutLucas game :)
The anyone but Lucas/Gerrard/Allen line of reasoning, it looks like now!
Seriously, if Can Played as Lucas did for the last 9 or so games he did for us (since Hull away) at DM, people on here would be hailing him as a 'beast'. :D
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Offline GoodSpirit

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Re: Liverpool's Best Midfield Combination?
« Reply #432 on: October 25, 2014, 06:34:40 pm »
                                               Gerrard                         Can

Sterling                                                                                                                    Coutinho


Against opponents like today.

________________________________

In difficult mathes:

                                                              Gerrard                            Can
                                                   
                                                                                 Coutinho

Sterling                                                                                                                                  Markovic     

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Re: Liverpool's Best Midfield Combination?
« Reply #433 on: October 25, 2014, 06:46:46 pm »
We can only but try out these various midfield permatations and hopefully hit on a combatative combination. The proof of the pudding is in the eating, however. :D
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Re: Liverpool's Best Midfield Combination?
« Reply #434 on: October 25, 2014, 06:53:22 pm »
                                               Gerrard                         Can

Sterling                                                                                                                    Coutinho


Against opponents like today.

________________________________

In difficult mathes:

                                                              Gerrard                            Can
                                                   
                                                                                 Coutinho

Sterling                                                                                                                                  Markovic     
The midfielders you left out would take that, mate!
        Lucas
Allen       Henderson
:D
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Offline SerbianScouser

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Re: Liverpool's Best Midfield Combination?
« Reply #435 on: October 25, 2014, 07:04:04 pm »
Lallana was terribly disappointing last two PL games. Today he had below 70% pass completion I believe, the ball was bouncing of his shins constantly and on the last two game evidence he doesn`t seem to cope well against overly physical midfields that are Qpr and Hull.

We need much more from him.

Offline Austin Powers

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Re: Liverpool's Best Midfield Combination?
« Reply #436 on: October 25, 2014, 07:05:00 pm »
Mental that Allen played instead of Coutinho today. Just can't get my head around it?

Offline leivapool

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Re: Liverpool's Best Midfield Combination?
« Reply #437 on: October 25, 2014, 07:07:54 pm »
Mental that Allen played instead of Coutinho today. Just can't get my head around it?

I can't get my head around the disappearance of Lucas,  has he been vaporised or something?  but hey,  that's football!!
Rossiter absolutely bossed it tonight. Really believe he'll end up playing more games this season than Lucas.


Henderson won't make it here. Sorry but he won't and won't

Offline leivapool

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Re: Liverpool's Best Midfield Combination?
« Reply #438 on: October 25, 2014, 07:08:43 pm »
The midfielders you left out would take that, mate!
        Lucas
Allen       Henderson
:D

Seconded,  my moneys on your midfield choice!
Rossiter absolutely bossed it tonight. Really believe he'll end up playing more games this season than Lucas.


Henderson won't make it here. Sorry but he won't and won't

Offline Austin Powers

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Re: Liverpool's Best Midfield Combination?
« Reply #439 on: October 25, 2014, 07:10:30 pm »
I can't get my head around the disappearance of Lucas,  has he been vaporised or something?  but hey,  that's football!!

I can help you out with that one, mate. He's the worst of all our midfielders.