Topic: Sportwashing-A general thread

[Legs]

Remember Neville and Carragher making the ESL out to be the root of all evil?

What a time to be alive.

Dont you worry they'll be on Sky soon to talk about it 🤣

[Flaccido Dongingo]

In think Golf, Tennis, Athletics etc are different because they are individual events, golf even moreso because older players still play the game. Buy the best 10 players and you have bought the game (or at least ruined it)


It is not the same with football. Most people who watch the game in this country hardly see Benzema, Mbappe etc, less so the South American players. Football has a history of players leaving this league, John Charles, Jimmy Greaves, Kevin Keegan, Grame Souness, Ian Rush, Gary Linekar, Laurie Cunningham etc near the top of their game with a barely noticable impact on the game.


They really will have to spend a vast fortune to get a decent share of the cake and even then it is only temporary, Salah was viewed as one of the best in the world a couple of years ago, that mantle has shifted even since then. They may buy a name like Salah but someone else will step into the shoes. It's not like buying Tiger Woods or Roger Federer.


As long as they keep buying the past, we will get by (and be richer), only when they buy the present in significant numbers (ie Haaland, Alexander-Arnold, Rice, say, will it make a sizeable dent. I doubt those sorts of players want to give up their ambitions to play in a league that will never really take off without billions a year thrown at it.


Look at Ettifaq


Manager, Steven Gerrard, big name, failed manager in England


When I see their squad list I see 33 players I have never heard of plus a (soon to be) washed up Jordan Henderson


Al-Nassr I see a manager who I don't really know with a washed up Ronaldo and 32 other non-notables


Al-Ahli have no manager as yet, Mahrez, Firmino (who we regarded as retiring if we are honest), Mendy plus another 31 non-notables

Al-Hilal have Jorge Jesus, Koulibaly, Neves and another 27 non-notables.


Anyone of those teams I'd gladly play with our reserves.


[size=78%]
[/size]

Al-Hilal have the lad from Lazio there as well.

[MonsLibpool]

In think Golf, Tennis, Athletics etc are different because they are individual events, golf even moreso because older players still play the game. Buy the best 10 players and you have bought the game (or at least ruined it)


It is not the same with football. Most people who watch the game in this country hardly see Benzema, Mbappe etc, less so the South American players. Football has a history of players leaving this league, John Charles, Jimmy Greaves, Kevin Keegan, Grame Souness, Ian Rush, Gary Linekar, Laurie Cunningham etc near the top of their game with a barely noticable impact on the game.


They really will have to spend a vast fortune to get a decent share of the cake and even then it is only temporary, Salah was viewed as one of the best in the world a couple of years ago, that mantle has shifted even since then. They may buy a name like Salah but someone else will step into the shoes. It's not like buying Tiger Woods or Roger Federer.


As long as they keep buying the past, we will get by (and be richer), only when they buy the present in significant numbers (ie Haaland, Alexander-Arnold, Rice, say, will it make a sizeable dent. I doubt those sorts of players want to give up their ambitions to play in a league that will never really take off without billions a year thrown at it.


Look at Ettifaq


Manager, Steven Gerrard, big name, failed manager in England


When I see their squad list I see 33 players I have never heard of plus a (soon to be) washed up Jordan Henderson


Al-Nassr I see a manager who I don't really know with a washed up Ronaldo and 32 other non-notables


Al-Ahli have no manager as yet, Mahrez, Firmino (who we regarded as retiring if we are honest), Mendy plus another 31 non-notables

Al-Hilal have Jorge Jesus, Koulibaly, Neves and another 27 non-notables.


Anyone of those teams I'd gladly play with our reserves.


[size=78%]
[/size]

It's a process mate. If Mbappe goes there then many younger will think "if Mbappe went at 24, why not?" It's like how City started buying good but not world class players before attracting the likes of Aguero and Silva. If they are persistent, they will get there very soon.

[markmywords]

Excellent post. Those other sports are individual players, build a golf  course or tennis stadium (?) and get the best players in the world to play and you can rightfully claim to host a top grade golf or tennis event. Football is about teams, the history, the emotional investment people have in clubs, history and rivalries. That simply cannot be bought in the same way.

If they think they can do the same with footy as golf and tennis or formula 1 then they have miscalculated badly. Players come and go, and they come and go quickly, but teams and leagues are the bedrock and what people really invest emotional value in.

Let them spunk billions, it won't get them anywhere in the end.

There is a big picture you are missing out on

As a result of Man city/chelsea/psg/saudi league/newc being 'sportwashed', Manchester United (1 of the most decorated, rich clubs in the world) fans have spent months absolutely desparate to be 'sportwashed', by qatar, some united are probably on a hunger strike til it happens.  If United with their cash and trophies are happy to be 'sportwashed', won't be long till everyone will want it and revel and celebrate it, when it happens

This is a stepping stone

[ScouserAtHeart]

Just pay Guardiola a few million a week to manage some random club already, you entitled fucks

[coolbyrne]

I'm sorry but football is dead if Mbappe goes to Al Hilal but alive when he plays for PSG or Real Madrid?
Nah, fuck all three in no particular order.

If you can't make the distinction between the ridiculous money Madrid will give Mbappe and the stench of the purpose behind Al Hilal, I don't know what to tell you.

[Macc77]

I'm in agreement with those who doubt this league will get any real attention outside of that area. We've had Mbappe, Messi and Neymar playing in France at the same time, and nobody cares about that league to any great degree despite France being a wonderful country that loads of people go to, and Paris being one of the most famous cities on the planet. Similarly, La Liga has never really punched its weight outside of the Big 2 clubs despite having many world class players for quite some time.

Marseille v PSG hasn't become a global classico like Real v Barca or Liverpool v United during the time those three megastars played in France, and La Liga hasn't pulled in anything like PL levels of tv money around the world or garnered anything like the worldwide support (outside of those 2 clubs) even when they had a stranglehold on the Ballon d'Or every year. If France couldn't do it, and Spain only got so far, I doubt the Saudi league will do anything remarkable given the lack of history and the relatively low amount of genuine talent.

This is a play at a World Cup, and for Saudi to be the go-to host of loads of football club comps. They can use Ronaldo, Mbappe, Firmino, Benzema and our lot as promotional tools, actors even. It may work to that degree, infact it almost probably will, but we won't all be watching that league. In New York they won't be getting up 9am to watch it like they do to watch our league, but for me that isn't the aim.

[Only Me]

I'm in agreement with those who doubt this league will get any real attention outside of that area. We've had Mbappe, Messi and Neymar playing in France at the same time, and nobody cares about that league to any great degree despite France being a wonderful country that loads of people go to, and Paris being one of the most famous cities on the planet. Similarly, La Liga has never really punched its weight outside of the Big 2 clubs despite having many world class players for quite some time.

Marseille v PSG hasn't become a global classico like Real v Barca or Liverpool v United during the time those three megastars played in France, and La Liga hasn't pulled in anything like PL levels of tv money around the world or garnered anything like the worldwide support (outside of those 2 clubs) even when they had a stranglehold on the Ballon d'Or every year. If France couldn't do it, and Spain only got so far, I doubt the Saudi league will do anything remarkable given the lack of history and the relatively low amount of genuine talent.

This is a play at a World Cup, and for Saudi to be the go-to host of loads of football club comps. They can use Ronaldo, Mbappe, Firmino, Benzema and our lot as promotional tools, actors even. It may work to that degree, infact it almost probably will, but we won't all be watching that league. In New York they won't be getting up 9am to watch it like they do to watch our league, but for me that isn't the aim.

The difference is that France is a shite league, with no big clubs who can generate anything like the revenue of an average PL club. No-one outside France is interested, and that's why no-one watches.

The Saudis have the dosh to create a league of 20 clubs, each with the spending power of Man City, and each following that same model of "lets throw obscene amounts of cash around and buy whoever we want". It would be totally shite, totally manufactured , and totally obscene. But that doesn't mean they can't or won't do it, and millions of galactico supporting fans in various parts of the world would watch that shite.

The players have largely shown themselves to be men of straw, with no fucking principles whatsoever, so they won't be the stumbling block, and I reckon that from next season they will start to come for top notch players in their prime, and the European clubs won't have the financial clout to stop them.

The only thing stopping them from World Domination are the talented and principled administrators at the head of FIFA and Uefa. Oh wait.....

At the very least, they'll have enough leverage to host a World Cup or two in the near future, or a Champions League final [or both] - you just watch.

[LovelyCushionedHeader]

Just pay Guardiola a few million a week to manage some random club already, you entitled fucks

It's 100% his next move after he's done with City, which I suspect will be at the end of this season.

[The North Bank]

Just pay Guardiola a few million a week to manage some random club already, you entitled fucks

Isnt that what they do now.

[SamLad]

all this silly worrying - we should all just calm down!!


https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/66296370
Premier League chief executive Richard Masters says he "wouldn't be too concerned at the moment" about Saudi Arabia's growing influence in football.

Cristiano Ronaldo moved to the Saudi Pro League in January and a number of high-profile players have followed him this summer.

Al-Hilal have also made a world record £259m bid for Paris St-Germain and France forward Kylian Mbappe.

"Something new is obviously happening," Masters told BBC Sport's Alex Howell. [give that man a prize!!]

"The Saudi Pro League have stated they want to be a top 10 league by 2030.

"They are investing in players and managers to try to raise the profile of the league and clubs.

"It has taken us 30 years to get to the position that we have in terms of profile, competitiveness and the revenue streams that we have.

"I wouldn't be too concerned at the moment but, obviously, Saudi Arabian clubs have as much right to purchase players as any other league does.

"In the end, the Premier League is a £6bn-a-year operation in terms of revenue and that money is spent reinvested into the pitch.

"All good competitions have to have revenue streams to back them up."

Ballon d'Or winner Karim Benzema left Real Madrid to join Al-Ittihad, who have also signed ex-Chelsea midfielder N'Golo Kante and Portuguese forward Jota from Celtic.

They have also made a bid of £40m for Liverpool's Brazilian midfielder Fabinho.

Brazil forward Roberto Firmino, whose contract with Liverpool expired in the summer, has joined Al-Ahli, and they have also signed Senegal keeper Edouard Mendy from Chelsea and agreed a £30m deal for Manchester City winger Riyad Mahrez.

Former Rangers and Aston Villa boss Steven Gerrard has taken over as manager of Al-Ettifaq, who have agreed a deal to sign Liverpool captain Jordan Henderson for £12m plus add-ons.

'Summer Series shows Premier League growth'
Aston Villa, Brentford, Brighton, Chelsea, Fulham and Newcastle are in the United States to play in a Premier League Summer Series during pre-season.

Masters highlighted the crowds at the games so far as evidence of the English top-flight's continuing growth.

"We had 105,000 fans over two days. 18 goals. It's gone really, really well so far," he said. "It feels like its taking off. When our partnership started with [US broadcaster and Premier League rights holder] NBC 10 years ago it felt like a niche interest but now it feels much more mainstream."

"The Premier League has spent 30 years building its market position. We have a fantastic competition and it speaks for itself," he added.  "It feels like we are making an impact not just on domestically but on an international scale as well."

[west_london_red]

The difference is that France is a shite league, with no big clubs who can generate anything like the revenue of an average PL club. No-one outside France is interested, and that's why no-one watches.

The Saudis have the dosh to create a league of 20 clubs, each with the spending power of Man City, and each following that same model of "lets throw obscene amounts of cash around and buy whoever we want". It would be totally shite, totally manufactured , and totally obscene. But that doesn't mean they can't or won't do it, and millions of galactico supporting fans in various parts of the world would watch that shite.

The players have largely shown themselves to be men of straw, with no fucking principles whatsoever, so they won't be the stumbling block, and I reckon that from next season they will start to come for top notch players in their prime, and the European clubs won't have the financial clout to stop them.

The only thing stopping them from World Domination are the talented and principled administrators at the head of FIFA and Uefa. Oh wait.....

At the very least, they'll have enough leverage to host a World Cup or two in the near future, or a Champions League final [or both] - you just watch.

I don’t think it’s quite as bleak as that, they’ll throw money around like drunken sailors for a few years and then realise no one gives a shit, no one’s going to watch it outside of their domestic market, it’s not generating any money and that they’ve just wasted tens of billions in the process and slowly the money will be turned off.

[Black Bull Nova]

It's a process mate. If Mbappe goes there then many younger will think "if Mbappe went at 24, why not?" It's like how City started buying good but not world class players before attracting the likes of Aguero and Silva. If they are persistent, they will get there very soon.

Mbappe is interesting. In a sense he has already sold out but remained in Euorpe. Signing for PSG is a bit like taking the oil money but managing to stay in the CL, possibly less so for French lad but definitely for the likes of Neymar and Messi. The trouble is they do not want to let go so, faced with a choice of staying on the bench for a year and then choosing his salary he is looking at being paid an obscene amount to stay fit in Saudi.

I think a lot comes down to the release clause being discussed. If after a year he is able to do what he really wants, join Real Madrid, then, in a sense, he is free from the oil money. Don't get me wrong, it's a big name but everyone knows that if they let him go to Madrid now he won't do Saudi for a year. It's a sort of line in the sand but not in a straightforward way. I still think they are some way off making the european game not worth watching next season and many miles off making the Saudi game worth watching.
Seeing Mbappe take the piss out of some second rate Saudi players next year will be a joke and will be a waste of a year for him. PSG want their blood money back to live with FFP, Mbappe just wants out, quick. Mbappe, except for winning the world cup with France has already wasted most of his talent staying in France. He's desperate at getting on for 25 to not waste anymore time with PSG.

[Jwils21]

Overheard the City supporting gobshite from a few doors down before, going on about how the Saudi’s are “rewenin futbahl” and how he “doesn’t like what they’re doing”.

Irony.

[WillG.LFC]

I say let them buy everyone, football needs a reset anyway. I don't get why players get as much slack as they do. People are weak minded if some players signing for Saudi clubs makes them change their opinion about the country. The problem is still those running the country in my eyes. A few player taking a pay day won't change that for me, players like Henderson are not my moral, political compass. It's a lesson for anyone to not hold athletes to such high regard

[Elzar]

As a football fan, I'm glad we saved the game when we stopped the Champions league from being replaced. Definitely the thing it needed saving from. Definitely.

[TheTeflonJohn]

This is only the beginning. They'll be in the champions league by 2025 or offer teams ridiculous sums to enter their own version mark my words. All that matters in football is money now and they've more of it than everyone else put together. What they did to golf was only a test run for the worlds biggest sport.

It's over for the game we once loved.

Yeah, I can see how Ceferin would love to expand the “football family “ £££$$$$$$

[Red-Soldier]

He's just waiting for the brown envelope to appear, that's why he's not worried 

[jepovic]

I don’t think it’s quite as bleak as that, they’ll throw money around like drunken sailors for a few years and then realise no one gives a shit, no one’s going to watch it outside of their domestic market, it’s not generating any money and that they’ve just wasted tens of billions in the process and slowly the money will be turned off.

It's all about persistence. If they can keep attracting top players for several years, and bribe themselves into the CL, then they can become a respected league.

I dont think the sportswashing part will work very well though. There will be even more attention to their horrific dictatorships. 10 years ago, nobody cared when SA executed people, but now they have bought themselves a place in the spotlight.

[west_london_red]

It's all about persistence. If they can keep attracting top players for several years, and bribe themselves into the CL, then they can become a respected league.

I dont think the sportswashing part will work very well though. There will be even more attention to their horrific dictatorships. 10 years ago, nobody cared when SA executed people, but now they have bought themselves a place in the spotlight.

My point is how much money are they prepared to pour into the league to get to where they want to? They will need to pour in billions year after year, I can’t see their league ever becoming financially self sustaining or profitable unless the league really, really takes off. Look at the numbers being linked to M’bappe and even the likes of Henderson and Fabinho, there’s no way they are ever making that money back.

[rob1966]

My point is how much money are they prepared to pour into the league to get to where they want to? They will need to pour in billions year after year, I can’t see their league ever becoming financially self sustaining or profitable unless the league really, really takes off. Look at the numbers being linked to M’bappe and even the likes of Henderson and Fabinho, there’s no way they are ever making that money back.

They've got £560 billion to play with, so they're pretty set for now.

We don't know what the aim is though, are they looking to create their own league or take over the PL? We've plenty of fucking idiots following us who would sell the soul of the club to have Mbappe play here, the Mancs are dying to be sportswashed, Abu Dhabi and Saudi are lauded in Manchester and Newcastle, the newcastle LGBTQ+ group welcomed them ffs, money talks. If they can get a hold of the two biggest draws in the PL, they've got a global fanbase boxed off.

[Bobsackamano]

My point is how much money are they prepared to pour into the league to get to where they want to? They will need to pour in billions year after year, I can’t see their league ever becoming financially self sustaining or profitable unless the league really, really takes off. Look at the numbers being linked to M’bappe and even the likes of Henderson and Fabinho, there’s no way they are ever making that money back.

The key question here is where do they want to get to? To be self sustaining at the level of spending they have gone with they need to become a major league with and international audience however they are a million miles away from this. Also as someone adroitly pointed out previously in the thread (citing PSG and the French league) the acquisition of big name players, even the very biggest, will not shift the dial on this to any great extent.

I think there are other factors at play here, maybe they don't have any real ambitions to be a major international league but one which is  major regional league in the middle east. Build a league that can attract the interest of the domestic audience and keep the attention of the young men in Saudi so they are not overly obsessed with leagues in western countries.

There are 2 major issues for the ruling elite in Saudi that this chimes with, firstly they know their current oil based economy has a shelf life so they desperately want to build a veneer of a modern state and a respectable league which attracts some aging foreign players and a few middling international players would be a facet of this. Secondly they have had a major population boom recently and there are lots of young men with little to do there, they need to give them something to think about other than the conditions they live in. Add into this the fact that there's a big gender ratio problem of 138 males to every 100 females and they could soon have a lot of young men with few prospects of finding a partner and little to do. The old maxim of football being the opiate of the people comes into play. Maybe the entire point of this is not to "take over football" but a clever means of pacifying what could become a restless male biased population.

[BarryCrocker]

They've got £560 billion to play with, so they're pretty set for now.

Just for perspective that's more than the GDP of countries like Ireland, Argentina, Belgium, Sweden. It's also roughly 75% of the GDP of Saudi Arabia according to the IMF/World Bank.

[stockdam]

I'd guess that their aim is to become a serious league that rivals or even betters the EPL. They won't have to do much to overtake most leagues in Europe and then they will be asking for their clubs to play in the European competitions, Once in, many more players will join.

I'm not sure how the country will get their investments back but I doubt if they really care. It's a project to dominate football and there's very little that anyone can do about it (not even UEFA or FIFA as they will be quickly bought). Players will flock there as they will get three times the wages anywhere else and once the quality is decent then it will become a competitive league.

We may even see some of the top clubs in Europe joining their league as that's where the money will be.

It's s bit depressing as I just see an inevitable domination where big money talks.

[slaphead]

How long are we thinking before the Broadcasters get involved ? I don't think it will take long personally. Once they get a few more names in, there will be a demand for it unfortunately. Then just watch the greedy little pundits like Gary Neville arse kissing to worm a move over there or to cover it and talk about how its good for the game

[rob1966]

How long are we thinking before the Broadcasters get involved ? I don't think it will take long personally. Once they get a few more names in, there will be a demand for it unfortunately. Then just watch the greedy little pundits like Gary Neville arse kissing to worm a move over there or to cover it and talk about how its good for the game

Salford FC will be sponsored by a Saudi company in the not too distant future if he has his way. He's nothing but a c*nt.

Bein Sports will be all over it and selling it to Sky, Ch4/Ch5, or maybe a Bein sports channel will appear on Freeview or Virgin, showing the games for free initially

[BarryCrocker]

Football, unlike some other sports revolves around people supporting clubs. We're not into franchises and we end up hating players who end up playing for our rivals.

Obviously, you'll get some ' johnny-come-latelies' who'll jump on the bandwagon of some team because they win their league, but you can't get the masses to start following some mickey-mouse club in the middle of nowhere winning some bullshit league because they have some names playing there.

I think the Saudis forget that football is a religion to many people.

[west_london_red]

Just for perspective that's more than the GDP of countries like Ireland, Argentina, Belgium, Sweden. It's also roughly 75% of the GDP of Saudi Arabia according to the IMF/World Bank.

That’s the size of their sovereign wealth fund, that’s supposed to to support the entire country when the oil dries up, they ain’t going to blow it all on a setting up a football league and a load of foreign footballers who will take all their wealth out of the country as soon as they hang up their boots.

[redgriffin73]

A lot of kids nowadays are growing up supporting Mbappe FC or whoever else, sadly. Watch the majority of Arabic fans drop us for wherever Mo goes next. I know obviously the hard-core and true fans aren't like that but this all plays to a lot of new and foreign fans.

[slaphead]

Salford FC will be sponsored by a Saudi company in the not too distant future if he has his way. He's nothing but a c*nt.

Bein Sports will be all over it and selling it to Sky, Ch4/Ch5, or maybe a Bein sports channel will appear on Freeview or Virgin, showing the games for free initially

Might be their way in actually yeah. A highlights programme of some sort even. They should go balls deep and bring in Andy Townsend with his tactics truck.
Once they lure names like Mbappe, the demand to see the games will explode,

[rob1966]

Football, unlike some other sports revolves around people supporting clubs. We're not into franchises and we end up hating players who end up playing for our rivals.

Obviously, you'll get some ' johnny-come-latelies' who'll jump on the bandwagon of some team because they win their league, but you can't get the masses to start following some mickey-mouse club in the middle of nowhere winning some bullshit league because they have some names playing there.

I think the Saudis forget that football is a religion to many people.

That's changing though. Ronaldo has what 300m followers, Messi 250m and they follow him from club to club. Modern kids can be easily influenced by Til-Tok and you could easily see the dynamic changing to supporting whoever your player plays for.

[rob1966]

That’s the size of their sovereign wealth fund, that’s supposed to to support the entire country when the oil dries up, they ain’t going to blow it all on a setting up a football league and a load of foreign footballers who will take all their wealth out of the country as soon as they hang up their boots.

Yes, and they are investing heavily in other areas that will make them immense amounts of money, so whats £30/40 billion from that if they get into firms making EV batteries/recycling them, building the cars etc and make more money than the sports side spends?

I've had a look and they invest in Meta, EA, Activision and other software companies as well as the likes of Uber

[BarryCrocker]

That's changing though. Ronaldo has what 300m followers, Messi 250m and they follow him from club to club. Modern kids can be easily influenced by Til-Tok and you could easily see the dynamic changing to supporting whoever your player plays for.

If players like Messi win the MLS and Ronaldo wins the SPL do you really think that football fans will give up on the PL, Bundesliga, La Liga, Serie A, etc?

Also, these players retire. Clubs and leagues don't.

[Libertine]

I think the Saudis forget that football is a religion to many people.

Yep. And as soon as their teams start getting a following, the supporters will be executed for apostasy. It's a vicious circle.

That's changing though. Ronaldo has what 300m followers, Messi 250m and they follow him from club to club. Modern kids can be easily influenced by Til-Tok and you could easily see the dynamic changing to supporting whoever your player plays for.

But does that translate to following them on the football field though? Or do they just scan through their holiday pics etc (along with the thousands of other "celebrities" they follow).

[McSquared]

Let’s face it, this saudi shit show isn’t going anywhere, no matter how much they don’t end up paying for mbappe. I kind of hope it does get a bit of traction (wash my mouth out), just enough to clear of the PL of mercenary players, sportswash fans and make the point of abu dhabi and saudi castle pointless

[semit5]

Football, unlike some other sports revolves around people supporting clubs. We're not into franchises and we end up hating players who end up playing for our rivals.

Obviously, you'll get some ' johnny-come-latelies' who'll jump on the bandwagon of some team because they win their league, but you can't get the masses to start following some mickey-mouse club in the middle of nowhere winning some bullshit league because they have some names playing there.

I think the Saudis forget that football is a religion to many people.

A lot of people are forgetting this. It’s all about the clubs, not the players. Players will soon get bored after a year or so playing in front empty stadiums, I don’t think they see it as a long term thing, their families won’t want to live there for 5 years.

[rob1966]

If players like Messi win the MLS and Ronaldo wins the SPL do you really think that football fans will give up on the PL, Bundesliga, La Liga, Serie A, etc?

Also, these players retire. Clubs and leagues don't.

The hardcore like us won't, but there are millions who will.

Yep. And as soon as their teams start getting a following, the supporters will be executed for apostasy. It's a vicious circle.

But does that translate to following them on the football field though? Or do they just scan through their holiday pics etc (along with the thousands of other "celebrities" they follow).

I'd say they watch the games, but just to see their hero play. They're not football fans in the traditional sense of the word, but they are an income stream and a very valuable one at that.

I'm pretty sure a load of casual fans switched from Utd to Madrid when Beckham moved, I'd also bet we lost thousands of Senegalese fans when Sadio went to Bayern and we'll lose thousands when Mo moves on.

[Only Me]

That's changing though. Ronaldo has what 300m followers, Messi 250m and they follow him from club to club. Modern kids can be easily influenced by Til-Tok and you could easily see the dynamic changing to supporting whoever your player plays for.

Is right.

Plus you've got millions of Asian "fans" who will change allegiance from one club to another if their first team isn't winning as much. These people have no geographical or emotional affinity to any club, so its no biggie to change allegiances.

Most football "fans" throughout the world have never seen their preferred team play live - its all on the telly. And the Saudis will televise everything worldwide, and pay to do it really well. If their teams are full of superstars, loads will watch.

And the stewards in charge of FIFA and UEFA are already bought and paid for, so there's no stopping them now.

Just remember, we've had a World Cup in Qatar now. Fucking Qatar.

Money will buy anything in the football world, and these murderous c*nts have more than anyone.

Oh and just to say again, Henderson is the worst type of two faced mercenary c*nt. Horrible, forgettable twat.

[slaphead]

It's not one or the other - team or a player. The younger generation of football fans do both now. You ask the younger ones who they support and who their favourite player is and you'll possibly get an answer like Liverpool and Mbappe. Or Man City and Messi. Or whatever. They consume an awful lot of football so they can talk about it with their mates.

[stewil007]

it will be 'interesting' in whatever time frame when an import to the Saudi league does something outside of the game that would get the average Saudi imprisoned or worse, that in any other country would be shrugged off or paid off