Topic: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!

[Eeyore]

You're right. This and the Spurs game bring them in to disrepute and clearly show PGMOL are not fit for purpose. I've said it before, but it's time for a root and branch reboot of the whole thing. It's a cartel that needs to be broken up. The audio from the Spurs game was damning, but met with a shrug of the shoulders. How bad does it need to get?

It needs to get to the stage where it has the potential to cost the owners of clubs serious money. Probably why Forest are kicking off so much.

[Son of Spion]

A conspiracy means more than one person meeting to influence an outcome for their gain.

It's a term that is over used these days and there is a reason for it too If the individual questions anything suss then the group mentality kicks in. The nail that stands out is always the first to be hit an' all that.

All a conspiracy is, is two or more people agreeing to commit an illegal or harmful act.

The PGMOL absolutely, 100% conspire together to protect each other no matter what, and this is extremely harmful to the sport. It directly influences outcomes.

[GreatEx]

Just watched the replay of the incident and the preceding phases of play. Basically, Areola leaps straight up to catch a high ball, bumps into a team mate then has a lesser collision with a Liverpool player, and grazes the post with his foot as he comes down. Lies on the floor for a second holding his ankle while Gakpo and a WHU player ask if he's OK, then Gakpo seems to say "well come on, get on with it then", then after Areola feels he's wasted enough time he gets up and everyone clears out for the goal kick, then the throw and sock pull happens. Absolutely ludicrous to suggest that there was a free kick + advantage, or that play needed to be stopped for treatment when the keeper has clearly resumed play after a bit of gamesmanship. The PGMOL is fortunate that the fire has gone out at Liverpool because that was just unacceptable by the referee. I just can't wait for the season to end so I can train myself to forget about the Premier League for good. It is just not healthy to engage with this stuff, football used to be a diversion from the pain of the world, now it's one of the antagonists. The hell with it all.

[lobsterboy]

I want to get behind the new fella but what's the point these days?
It's bent, rigged and refereed by corrupt Manc bastards.
Pointless watching it.
No matter how good we are they will continue to fuck us over.
We aren't reffed to the same rules, haven't been since SKY got in bed with the Mancs but now it's worse than ever. 
Elbowing our players, ruling out fair goals, letting opponents foul with impunity, ruling out any goal of ours they can.
Not worth watching.
All the soccer am bantz c*nts are welcome to the farce.
I'd rather watch paint dry and it's better for my health.

[spider-neil]

The Everton game where the ref gave a foul and then the exact same foul on Mac he waved play on. We aren't refed in the same way.

Away from home, the ref favours the away team and at Anfield, the ref wants to prove he isn't swayed by the crowd.

[Yorkykopite]

Again, the media is half the problem. Wasn't even mentioned anywhere that I can see.

BBC and the Manchester Guardian both completely ignored it.

Your assessment of evidence doesn't inspire confidence in anything you say. BBC Match of the Day covered the incident closely. No one defended Taylor. Quite the opposite.

[Eeyore]

Your assessment of evidence doesn't inspire confidence in anything you say. BBC Match of the Day covered the incident closely. No one defended Taylor. Quite the opposite.

Pearce did. Which was quite strange because instead of it being normal commentary in which the commentator actually describes what is going on, you know his job. Instead, it sounded to me like an edited voiceover defending the referee.

The question is do you think Taylor cheated?

[rob1966]

Your assessment of evidence doesn't inspire confidence in anything you say. BBC Match of the Day covered the incident closely. No one defended Taylor. Quite the opposite.

The match report https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/68862599 makes zero mention of it and while Wright, Shearer and Lineker did discuss and rip it apart, as Al says, Pearce totally glossed over it and actually claimed in commentary that Taylor saw Areola was injured, even though he was telling him to play on and the fucker was stood pulling his socks up.

[Yorkykopite]

The question is do you think Taylor cheated?

He certainly broke the rules. And then he tried to cover his error by persuading the goalie that he was injured. This was pointed out on the BBC. Shearer couldn't believe it.

What will happen now is that PGMOL will refuse to release the audio and Taylor will go unpunished. They have a consistent record of closing ranks and protecting referees when they make mistakes.

The incident was similar in some respects to the Arsenal v Bayern match where Gabriel picked up the ball when it was 'live' in the box. It ought to have been a penalty, but the ref bent the rules and allowed Arsenal to take the goal kick again. Yesterday the West Ham goalie was hoping to waste time. He also made a stupid mistake. The ref bailed him out too. Same thing. Both incidents are unusual (but will surely become more common as time-wasting becomes more and more sophisticated). But it's not the referees job to react to bizarre mistakes by erasing them.

[Yorkykopite]

The match report https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/68862599 makes zero mention of it...etc

Yeah, I know. I was just correcting Andy when he said that the BBC had totally ignored the incident. I think the implication was that they must be part of the anti-Liverpool conspiracy. But, as I said, the BBC didn't ignore it. They discussed it and broadly agreed with posters on RAWK on what had happened. That is emphatically NOT the BBC ignoring the incident. Unless of course you just look at one piece of evidence only.

[Crosby Nick]

He certainly broke the rules. And then he tried to cover his error by persuading the goalie that he was injured. This was pointed out on the BBC. Shearer couldn't believe it.

What will happen now is that PGMOL will refuse to release the audio and Taylor will go unpunished. They have a consistent record of closing ranks and protecting referees when they make mistakes.

The incident was similar in some respects to the Arsenal v Bayern match where Gabriel picked up the ball when it was 'live' in the box. It ought to have been a penalty, but the ref bent the rules and allowed Arsenal to take the goal kick again. Yesterday the West Ham goalie was hoping to waste time. He also made a stupid mistake. The ref bailed him out too. Same thing. Both incidents are unusual (but will surely become more common as time-wasting becomes more and more sophisticated). But it's not the referees job to react to bizarre mistakes by erasing them.

Someone mentioned cricket yesterday Yorkie and I think they made a valid point. Every once in a while cricket always throws up something a bit ridiculous like a Mankad run out, that Bairstow stumping in the Ashes or someone handling the ball where you think it’s a bit soft or not quite right but generally the laws of the game are applied correctly and that person is still given out. Football refs just seem to do what they want and know they won’t be challenged on it.

[rossipersempre]

He certainly broke the rules. And then he tried to cover his error by persuading the goalie that he was injured.

Leaving side exactly why his instinct was to stop us scoring an easy goal to claim 3 points, this is what condemns him.

In any other regulatory or indeed legal context, the act itself can be viewed as an error but to attempt a cover-up of said act is what gets you sacked/imprisoned. Like the case years ago with the MP and his ex-wife taking his speeding points for him. Both got jailed.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Your assessment of evidence doesn't inspire confidence in anything you say. BBC Match of the Day covered the incident closely. No one defended Taylor. Quite the opposite.

I don't watch fucking Match of the Day and fucking haven't for fucking years. It's a c*nts programme for c*nts.

I'm talking about their report on the match.

[Yorkykopite]

Someone mentioned cricket yesterday Yorkie and I think they made a valid point. Every once in a while cricket always throws up something a bit ridiculous like a Mankad run out, that Bairstow stumping in the Ashes or someone handling the ball where you think it’s a bit soft or not quite right but generally the laws of the game are applied correctly and that person is still given out. Football refs just seem to do what they want and know they won’t be challenged on it.

Exactly.

Or nearly so. The Bairstow incident is relevant here. The umpire did the right thing according to the laws of cricket and gave him out. I accepted that at the time but thought that the Australians ought to have withdrawn their appeal since the dismissed batter wan't trying to steal an advantage. Yesterday, if things had gone differently, you could argue that Gakpo could have been asked to withdraw the goal (or West Ham given a goal as compensation). But I wouldn't agree for two reasons 1)  Gakpo actually seemed to check with the linesman to make sure he was legit. 2) Unlike Bairstow in the Ashes, the West Ham goalie was trying to seek an advantage. He had been doing so ever since he hit the deck and had to be persuaded to get to his feet by Gakpo himself. Why did he hit the deck and refuse to get up? Why did he spin the ball out to the edge of the penalty area? Her was trying to run down the clock......And then he paid, or should have paid, the price.

[rossipersempre]

Yeah, I know. I was just correcting Andy when he said that the BBC had totally ignored the incident. I think the implication was that they must be part of the anti-Liverpool conspiracy. But, as I said, the BBC didn't ignore it. They discussed it and broadly agreed with posters on RAWK on what had happened. That is emphatically NOT the BBC ignoring the incident. Unless of course you just look at one piece of evidence only.

It's one thing to discuss on a TV programme aired at 11pm, a bit of controversy to fill the otherwise inane comments and awkward pauses between the pundits. After which it'll never be mentioned again.

But quite another to see it dominating the Sunday headlines with calls for this to be investigated further, with comments from the various stakeholders. Compare and contrast the apocalyptic levels of fume that the Forest drop-ball incident caused in the media, all because we scored a goal 3 minutes later.

[Yorkykopite]

I don't watch fucking Match of the Day and fucking haven't for fucking years. It's a c*nts programme for c*nts.

I'm talking about their report on the match.

That's fine. But as I say it weakens your credibility when you make sweeping statements without looking at the evidence.

[rossipersempre]

That's fine. But as I say it weakens your credibility when you make sweeping statements without looking at the evidence.

Bit of an assumption there in the first place.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

That's fine. But as I say it weakens your credibility when you make sweeping statements without looking at the evidence.

I'm talking about the match report as you well know and I'm talking about the Manchester Guardians match report as you well know.

And if you've ever read a single post of mine on here, you'd know (And do know) that I jibbted MOTD years ago. It's a load of shite. Has been for more than a decade.

[Yorkykopite]

Bit of an assumption there in the first place.

Not like you to miss irony Rossi.

(I think that's the second time you've failed me in this thread. And this wasn't even on April 1st)

[Yorkykopite]

I'm talking about the match report as you well know and I'm talking about the Manchester Guardians match report as you well know.

And if you've ever read a single post of mine on here, you'd know (And do know) that I jibbted MOTD years ago. It's a load of shite. Has been for more than a decade.

The problem is that MOTD still happens, whether you watch it or not. And therefore it still represents 'evidence' - in this case evidence that destroys your argument. That's the way these things work.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

The problem is that MOTD still happens, whether you watch it or not. And therefore it still represents 'evidence' - in this case evidence that destroys your argument. That's the way these things work.

So you're saying that you should trawl through BBC content and spend hours of your life looking for stuff that should have been reported in their main report?

No doubt you'll also be able to point me at where the Manchester Guardian mention it.


You're talking shite about this as usual. You know I was talking about the match report - why wasn't it in the BBC and the Manchester Guardian and other match reports? It was a vital and central point in the match.


Instead of talking bollocks, why don't you try and defend that for a change? WHY wasn't it reported on the so-called impartial BBC match report?

I can understand why it wasn't printed in the Manchester Guardian.

[Jm55]

I'm talking about the match report as you well know and I'm talking about the Manchester Guardians match report as you well know.

And if you've ever read a single post of mine on here, you'd know (And do know) that I jibbted MOTD years ago. It's a load of shite. Has been for more than a decade.

Whether you watch it or not isn’t the point, I don’t watch it either but the point is it’s one of the most prominent media enterprises that there is and they discussed it and made the point that plenty of here are making so to make the point that the media have all unanimously ignored it is incorrect.

The media by and large aren’t there to protect PGMOL, they’re there to make money via whatever generates the most views and clicks. It’s largely the media’s fault that we got VAR in the first place due to the likes of MOTD and Sky crucifying referees for ages whenever they made an error, obviously sometimes that was more just than others but the point is they’re certainly not trying to protect them or downplay the errors.

[Eeyore]

He certainly broke the rules. And then he tried to cover his error by persuading the goalie that he was injured. This was pointed out on the BBC. Shearer couldn't believe it.

What will happen now is that PGMOL will refuse to release the audio and Taylor will go unpunished. They have a consistent record of closing ranks and protecting referees when they make mistakes.

The incident was similar in some respects to the Arsenal v Bayern match where Gabriel picked up the ball when it was 'live' in the box. It ought to have been a penalty, but the ref bent the rules and allowed Arsenal to take the goal kick again. Yesterday the West Ham goalie was hoping to waste time. He also made a stupid mistake. The ref bailed him out too. Same thing. Both incidents are unusual (but will surely become more common as time-wasting becomes more and more sophisticated). But it's not the referees job to react to bizarre mistakes by erasing them.

The thing is what you are describing is a conspiracy and corruption. All the match officials and Stockley Park will have heard the audio. Webb and the PGMOL will know what happened. So if there is no action taken against Taylor then it is 100% a conspiracy and 100% corruption.

Would you agree with that?

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Whether you watch it or not isn’t the point, I don’t watch it either but the point is it’s one of the most prominent media enterprises that there is and they discussed it and made the point that plenty of here are making so to make the point that the media have all unanimously ignored it is incorrect.

The media by and large aren’t there to protect PGMOL, they’re there to make money via whatever generates the most views and clicks. It’s largely the media’s fault that we got VAR in the first place due to the likes of MOTD and Sky crucifying referees for ages whenever they made an error, obviously sometimes that was more just than others but the point is they’re certainly not trying to protect them or downplay the errors.

Why wasn't it on the BBC Match report?

[Jm55]

Why wasn't it on the BBC Match report?

I don’t know mate but just because it wasn’t on every single form of reporting doesn’t discredit the fact that it was on the BBC’s flagship media enterprise for PL football.

More people will watch MOTD than will read a match report.

[Yorkykopite]

So you're saying that you should trawl through BBC content and spend hours of your life looking for stuff that should have been reported in their main report?

No doubt you'll also be able to point me at where the Manchester Guardian mention it.


You're talking shite about this as usual. You know I was talking about the match report - why wasn't it in the BBC and the Manchester Guardian and other match reports? It was a vital and central point in the match.


Instead of talking bollocks, why don't you try and defend that for a change? WHY wasn't it reported on the so-called impartial BBC match report?

I can understand why it wasn't printed in the Manchester Guardian.

Are you ok?

[rossipersempre]

Not like you to miss irony Rossi.

Oh I didn't miss it, I just wanted to reiterate it for effect.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

I don’t know mate but just because it wasn’t on every single form of reporting doesn’t discredit the fact that it was on the BBC’s flagship media enterprise for PL football.

More people will watch MOTD than will read a match report.

I've seen plenty of BBC match reports where they say things like 'this appeared to have happened' - this was probably the most bent thing I've seen in English football. Seems like a pretty big deal and it's a bit odd that people that are literally paid to watch and report on a match 'didn't see it'

In the same way, as people have said, the media can hear PGMOL - so it's not like they are unaware of what is being said.


I wonder what would have to happen for people to think that it's not quite right. You'd think an official assaulting a football player on the pitch in full view of everyone might make people wonder, or perhaps someone catching the ball in the area, spinning around, dropping it on the floor and running off with it might look a bit odd? Then you have a player clearly onside being flagged and reviewed as offside. That was a bit odd, or a player clearly getting kicked in the chest that somehow wasn't 'a thing'

The game is as bent as fuck and has been for years and it's not all to do with Liverpool. Some teams get fucked over every game. Some teams get every decision going.

I don't even know what the answer is any more. Miking them up so they can be heard has made it worse. Having people that can sit there and see exactly what happened has made it much, much worse. The media have made it worse by selectively commenting on what they want to comment on and ignoring what they don't. The PGMOL have made it worse by being completely unaccountable and letting their members work for actual clubs in the league.


Football is an absolute fucking shitshow at the moment. These c*nts have turned 'The beautiful game' into a random shit show of lies, bullshit, mediocrity and wankers.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Are you ok?

Why wasn't it reported on the BBC match report?

[Eeyore]

Whether you watch it or not isn’t the point, I don’t watch it either but the point is it’s one of the most prominent media enterprises that there is and they discussed it and made the point that plenty of here are making so to make the point that the media have all unanimously ignored it is incorrect.

The media by and large aren’t there to protect PGMOL, they’re there to make money via whatever generates the most views and clicks. It’s largely the media’s fault that we got VAR in the first place due to the likes of MOTD and Sky crucifying referees for ages whenever they made an error, obviously sometimes that was more just than others but the point is they’re certainly not trying to protect them or downplay the errors.

I watched the game on a US stream and the difference in how the incident was reported at the time on NBC compared to TNT and MOTD was incredible. Dixon instantly called Taylor and out and stated that he had told the keeper to go down. Pearce instantly backed the ref and said he had seen he was injured.

[GreatEx]

The other thing about MOTD is that it isn't viewable outside the UK without a VPN, so the official match report is what the wider world sees as the BBC viewpoint. So while Andy is technically incorrect, it does seem that the official BBC line is that there's nothing to see here, whereas for the drop ball the BBC Football site ran it as the main story and a couple of secondary articles pushing the Clattenburg doctrine. All that for an incident that had only a marginal, indirect impact on the result, whereas this one was denial of a near certain goal (although one can't dismiss the possibility of our forwards tripping over the ball or missing the open goal) to put a team ahead in the 87th minute.

But all this deflects from the million dirham question: Yorky, do you consider Taylor's persuading Titsley to act injured and his summoning of the physios, to be a corrupt act, using the dictionary definition of corruption as "dishonest or fraudulent conduct by those in power", usually but not necessarily involving bribery?

[redbyrdz]

Maybe there need to be more rules in football to address what happens when a ref makes a mistake. Similarly how players get punished for breaking the rules, refs could have a set list of punishments. Wrongly awarded freekick - yellow - one match ban. Disallow a perfectly fine goal - red - three match ban.

[rossipersempre]

I watched the game on a US stream and the difference in how the incident was reported at the time on NBC compared to TNT and MOTD was incredible. Dixon instantly called Taylor and out and stated that he had told the keeper to go down. Pearce instantly backed the ref and said he had seen he was injured.

I also thought it was interesting that Dixon, an ex-Arsenal stalwart, would be remonstrating this, a decision that cost us 2 points.

Imagine Micah Richards in the same scenario. Cue nervous laughter "hahahah....the ref's blown the whistle that's that...the goalie is obviously injured...Gakpo must have fouled him just before" (off-mic "oi, bring that buffet cart back!")

[Yorkykopite]

Why wasn't it reported on the BBC match report?

It was. And then the Director-General was alerted and the reporter told to remove any reference to it. He did so. But was taken out of the back entrance of Broadcasting House and summarily shot. Against the execution wall where others had gone before for similar offences. On MOTD itself the original commentary was stripped off and Pearce was told to re-record something written by PGMOL. Which he did.

Lineker and Shearer held out, which you won't know about because things don't happen if you don't see them. They barricaded themselves in the MOTD studio and with special forces hammering at the doors managed to slip in a bit of criticism of Anthony Taylor. Both men were eventually captured. Their funerals are tomorrow.

[GreatEx]

Maybe there need to be more rules in football to address what happens when a ref makes a mistake. Similarly how players get punished for breaking the rules, refs could have a set list of punishments. Wrongly awarded freekick - yellow - one match ban. Disallow a perfectly fine goal - red - three match ban.

Fuck Liverpool over again: your next moonlighting gig will be at Shakhtar Donetsk

[Andy @ Allerton!]

It was. And then the Director-General was alerted and the reporter told to remove any reference to it. He did so. But was taken out of the back entrance of Broadcasting House and summarily shot. Against the execution wall where others had gone before for similar offences. On MOTD itself the original commentary was stripped off and Pearce was told to re-record something written by PGMOL. Which he did.

Lineker and Shearer held out, which you won't know about because things don't happen if you don't see them. They barricaded themselves in the MOTD studio and with special forces hammering at the doors managed to slip in a bit of criticism of Anthony Taylor. Both men were eventually captured. Their funerals are tomorrow.

Why wasn't it reported on the BBC match report?

[tray fenny]

Someone mentioned cricket yesterday Yorkie and I think they made a valid point. Every once in a while cricket always throws up something a bit ridiculous like a Mankad run out, that Bairstow stumping in the Ashes or someone handling the ball where you think it’s a bit soft or not quite right but generally the laws of the game are applied correctly and that person is still given out. Football refs just seem to do what they want and know they won’t be challenged on it.

and then theres golf

[CHOPPER]

So If I'm getting this right, as well as all the refs, now all the media are conspiring against us?

[Yorkykopite]

So If I'm getting this right, as well as all the refs, now all the media are conspiring against us?

Yep.

Apart from the media who share our outrage over the incident. They don't count because it spoils the argument.

[CHOPPER]

Yep.

Apart from the media who share our outrage over the incident. They don't count because it spoils the argument.

So the media are and arent!... Damn their dastardly dastedness they are without doubt Keyser Söze.