Author Topic: Brexit and/or Tory and Proud!  (Read 7952 times)

Offline Titi Camara

  • Hey, wanna hear the new dubstep song I wrote? Wub, Wub, Wub! Wubba Lubba Dub Dub! I'm Pickle Rick with hirsute areolae!
  • RAWK Staff
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 19,211
  • Number 21 of the Crazy 88
Brexit and/or Tory and Proud!
« on: January 23, 2020, 06:14:43 pm »
Did you vote for Brexit? Do/did you vote Tory? Did you vote for both?

Did you jump ship from another party? If so, which and why?

Offline CornerFlag

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,649
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Brexit and/or Tory and Proud!
« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2020, 09:20:03 pm »
Can we make sure that, if Titi gets replies, there isn't a pile-on.  I'm genuinely intrigued by whether anyone on here a) did vote for these, and b) their reasons for doing so.
My Twitter

Last time I went there I saw masturbating chimpanzees. Whether you think that's worthy of £22 is up to you. All I'll say is I now have an annual pass.

Offline Titi Camara

  • Hey, wanna hear the new dubstep song I wrote? Wub, Wub, Wub! Wubba Lubba Dub Dub! I'm Pickle Rick with hirsute areolae!
  • RAWK Staff
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 19,211
  • Number 21 of the Crazy 88
Re: Brexit and/or Tory and Proud!
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2020, 10:05:15 pm »
Can we make sure that, if Titi gets replies, there isn't a pile-on.  I'm genuinely intrigued by whether anyone on here a) did vote for these, and b) their reasons for doing so.
I'll back that pledge!

Offline Andy @ Allerton!

  • Missing an asterisk - no, wait sorry, that's his rusty starfish..... RAWK Apple fanboy. Hedley Lamarr's bestest mate. Has done nothing incredible ever.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 73,697
  • Asterisks baby!
Re: Brexit and/or Tory and Proud!
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2020, 12:48:44 pm »
Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

Offline Titi Camara

  • Hey, wanna hear the new dubstep song I wrote? Wub, Wub, Wub! Wubba Lubba Dub Dub! I'm Pickle Rick with hirsute areolae!
  • RAWK Staff
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 19,211
  • Number 21 of the Crazy 88
Re: Brexit and/or Tory and Proud!
« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2020, 12:48:55 pm »
Surely we must have one ot two? Be interesting to see the other side of the fence.

I'm very much with James O B on this, I suspect most just went with the populist vote rather than actually being malicious or particularly well informed?

Offline Andy @ Allerton!

  • Missing an asterisk - no, wait sorry, that's his rusty starfish..... RAWK Apple fanboy. Hedley Lamarr's bestest mate. Has done nothing incredible ever.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 73,697
  • Asterisks baby!
Re: Brexit and/or Tory and Proud!
« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2020, 10:10:37 pm »
I'd be interested if someone did admit to it on here.

OR.

If someone that has managed to speak to a Brexiter of intelligence that has come up with some reasons for why leaving was better for the UK?

I've heard quite a few reasons and they all seem to boil down to

* Wishful Thinking
* Hope
* Racism
* Xenophobia
* Bigotry
* Lack of economic knowledge
* Misdirected anger
* Tinfoil hat ideas (EU Army, United States of Europe, Turkey joining the EU and the like..)
* Quoting bullshit bollocks spouted by the likes of Frottage, Trump, Johnson, Cummings and the like which makes no sense

Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

Offline M(oaning) B(ecomes) E(mbarrassing)

  • Worthless.
  • RAWK Embarrassment
  • Legacy Fan
  • *
  • Posts: 4,587
  • Thoroughly thought through
Re: Brexit and/or Tory and Proud!
« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2020, 08:25:46 am »
A mate of ours is a farmer who was fully behind Brexit and boasted he'd voted tory.  He's one of the first I know to come out and publicly say he regrets both and was stupid enough to believe the lies that are now going to cost him his business because the 25% subsidy he's realised he absolutely relies on will not be paid BECAUSE WE'RE NO LONGER IN THE EU!  He's very upfront about it and all.  There's another one we don't speak to anymore and we've changed his name to Terry Fuckwit who's own daughters have turned their backs on him for publicly campaigning for the tories in the election.  He's a minimum wage abattoir worker who reads.... you'll never guess...because he does! 
It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it.

Offline AndyMuller

  • Has always wondered how to do it. Rice, Rice, Baby. Wants to have George Michael. Would batter A@A at karate.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 15,297
Re: Brexit and/or Tory and Proud!
« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2020, 10:58:33 am »
A mate of ours is a farmer who was fully behind Brexit and boasted he'd voted tory.  He's one of the first I know to come out and publicly say he regrets both and was stupid enough to believe the lies that are now going to cost him his business because the 25% subsidy he's realised he absolutely relies on will not be paid BECAUSE WE'RE NO LONGER IN THE EU!  He's very upfront about it and all.  There's another one we don't speak to anymore and we've changed his name to Terry Fuckwit who's own daughters have turned their backs on him for publicly campaigning for the tories in the election.  He's a minimum wage abattoir worker who reads.... you'll never guess...because he does!

They deserve everything they get.

Offline Nobby Reserve

  • Onanistic Charades Champion Of Roundabouts. Euphemistic Gerbil Starver.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 11,984
  • Do you wanna build a snowman?
Re: Brexit and/or Tory and Proud!
« Reply #8 on: February 28, 2020, 10:22:11 am »
I'd be interested if someone did admit to it on here.

OR.

If someone that has managed to speak to a Brexiter of intelligence that has come up with some reasons for why leaving was better for the UK?

I've heard quite a few reasons and they all seem to boil down to

* Wishful Thinking
* Hope
* Racism
* Xenophobia
* Bigotry
* Lack of economic knowledge
* Misdirected anger
* Tinfoil hat ideas (EU Army, United States of Europe, Turkey joining the EU and the like..)
* Quoting bullshit bollocks spouted by the likes of Frottage, Trump, Johnson, Cummings and the like which makes no sense


A 'white van man' general builder I know through a mate is Brexit through & through. His argument is that since 'all these Poles and Romanians' have come over, they've been undercutting him for domestic jobs and he's had to cut his prices to win jobs. He used to boast about bringing in near hundred grand a year, but reckons he struggles to clear fifty now. He can't wait for 'all these Poles & Romanians' to 'fuck off back home' so he can hike his prices again.

He's also a bit of a racist prick, so I suspect that plays a big part as well, though.
A Tory, a worker and an immigrant are sat round a table. There's a plate of 10 biscuits in the middle. The Tory takes 9 then turns to the worker and says "that immigrant is trying to steal your biscuit"

Offline SouthDerryLaggo

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,643
  • Enjoy these times
Re: Brexit and/or Tory and Proud!
« Reply #9 on: February 28, 2020, 10:26:05 am »
A mate of ours is a farmer who was fully behind Brexit and boasted he'd voted tory.  He's one of the first I know to come out and publicly say he regrets both and was stupid enough to believe the lies that are now going to cost him his business because the 25% subsidy he's realised he absolutely relies on will not be paid BECAUSE WE'RE NO LONGER IN THE EU!  He's very upfront about it and all.  There's another one we don't speak to anymore and we've changed his name to Terry Fuckwit who's own daughters have turned their backs on him for publicly campaigning for the tories in the election.  He's a minimum wage abattoir worker who reads.... you'll never guess...because he does!
This kind of stuff about the farmer I’ll never understand. What did he think he was voting for? Where did he think that eu money was going to go?
YNWA

Offline kaikarden

  • Kemlynite
  • **
  • Posts: 34
Re: Brexit and/or Tory and Proud!
« Reply #10 on: March 5, 2020, 08:54:16 am »
This kind of stuff about the farmer I’ll never understand. What did he think he was voting for? Where did he think that eu money was going to go?

There was a similar thing on Newsnight not too long ago of a Lincolnshire farmer expressing his dismay at the fact that he's gonna struggle for workers to pick his harvest for him. I'm genuinely conflicted as to whether I have sympathy for them. On the one hand, they should have known their business but then again they were blinded by party loyalty to the Tories and fell for the shite.

Offline eddymunster

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,926
  • JFT96
Re: Brexit and/or Tory and Proud!
« Reply #11 on: March 5, 2020, 09:40:07 am »
There was a similar thing on Newsnight not too long ago of a Lincolnshire farmer expressing his dismay at the fact that he's gonna struggle for workers to pick his harvest for him. I'm genuinely conflicted as to whether I have sympathy for them. On the one hand, they should have known their business but then again they were blinded by party loyalty to the Tories and fell for the shite.

I'm missing the part that suggests they deserve sympathy.....
Brexit (n) - "The undefined being negotiated by the unprepared in order to get the unspecified for the uninformed."

Offline Red-Soldier

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 16,706
Re: Brexit and/or Tory and Proud!
« Reply #12 on: March 5, 2020, 10:00:12 am »


Many farmers literally voted to put themselves out of business, just to massage their ingrained xenophobia.  You cannot have any sympathy for anyone who does that.

Online TepidT2O

  • Deffo NOT 9"! MUFC bedwetter. Grass. Folically-challenged, God-piece-wearing, monkey-rubber. Jizz aroma expert. Operating at the lower end of the distribution curve...has the hots for Alan. Bastard. Fearless in transfer windows with lack of convicti
  • Lead Matchday Commentator
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 94,272
  • Dejan Lovren fan club member #1
Re: Brexit and/or Tory and Proud!
« Reply #13 on: March 5, 2020, 10:53:54 am »
Many farmers literally voted to put themselves out of business, just to massage their ingrained xenophobia.  You cannot have any sympathy for anyone who does that.
No I don’t agree. This isn’t to do with xenophobia with farmers on the whole.

They didn’t like the EU with good reason.  The CAP is farcical. It drives the wrong behaviours and is open to massive fraud.

I understand their concerns with the EU for agriculture.  Now, they were still mad to want to leave, but if I had to give one group of people who had a genuine axe to drink with the EU it would be farmers.
“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
W

Offline Red-Soldier

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 16,706
Re: Brexit and/or Tory and Proud!
« Reply #14 on: March 5, 2020, 11:00:50 am »
No I don’t agree. This isn’t to do with xenophobia with farmers on the whole.

They didn’t like the EU with good reason.  The CAP is farcical. It drives the wrong behaviours and is open to massive fraud.

I understand their concerns with the EU for agriculture.  Now, they were still mad to want to leave, but if I had to give one group of people who had a genuine axe to drink with the EU it would be farmers.

I disagree with your words.  The CAP is not perfect and still needs reform, but is not farcical.

Online TepidT2O

  • Deffo NOT 9"! MUFC bedwetter. Grass. Folically-challenged, God-piece-wearing, monkey-rubber. Jizz aroma expert. Operating at the lower end of the distribution curve...has the hots for Alan. Bastard. Fearless in transfer windows with lack of convicti
  • Lead Matchday Commentator
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 94,272
  • Dejan Lovren fan club member #1
Re: Brexit and/or Tory and Proud!
« Reply #15 on: March 5, 2020, 11:08:28 am »
I disagree with your words.  The CAP is not perfect and still needs reform, but is not farcical.
I wouldn’t agree with you, it’s not fit for purpose.
“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
W

Offline Red-Soldier

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 16,706
Re: Brexit and/or Tory and Proud!
« Reply #16 on: March 5, 2020, 11:11:35 am »
I wouldn’t agree with you, it’s not fit for purpose.

Why do you have this opinion?

Online TepidT2O

  • Deffo NOT 9"! MUFC bedwetter. Grass. Folically-challenged, God-piece-wearing, monkey-rubber. Jizz aroma expert. Operating at the lower end of the distribution curve...has the hots for Alan. Bastard. Fearless in transfer windows with lack of convicti
  • Lead Matchday Commentator
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 94,272
  • Dejan Lovren fan club member #1
Re: Brexit and/or Tory and Proud!
« Reply #17 on: March 5, 2020, 11:15:09 am »
Why do you have this opinion?
Because I grew up surrounded by farms, went to school with farmers kids and have links with many farmers including the former head of the NFU.
“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
W

Offline Red-Soldier

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 16,706
Re: Brexit and/or Tory and Proud!
« Reply #18 on: March 5, 2020, 11:22:17 am »
Because I grew up surrounded by farms, went to school with farmers kids and have links with many farmers including the former head of the NFU.

Thats fine.  But still doesn't explain what is so farcical about the CAP?

What are the details/regulations that make it farcical?

Offline TSC

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 25,484
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Brexit and/or Tory and Proud!
« Reply #19 on: March 5, 2020, 02:19:19 pm »
Comments this week from a Tory that UK no longer needs its farming and fishing industries should calm things.

Offline oldfordie

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 14,448
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Brexit and/or Tory and Proud!
« Reply #20 on: March 5, 2020, 02:34:56 pm »
Comments this week from a Tory that UK no longer needs its farming and fishing industries should calm things.
We don't need the Car industry or Services either. we are also prepared to walk away from the EU+USA and anyone else if they don't give us the trade deal we want.
We don't need any Coronavirus to self isolate from the world.
It might take our producers five minutes to find 60 economists who feared Brexit and five hours to find a sole voice who espoused it.
“But by the time we went on air we simply had one of each; we presented this unequal effort to our audience as balance. It wasn’t.”
               Emily Maitlis

Offline CowboyKangaroo

  • aka WayneSkippy
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,679
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Brexit and/or Tory and Proud!
« Reply #21 on: March 5, 2020, 02:39:58 pm »
Thats fine.  But still doesn't explain what is so farcical about the CAP?

What are the details/regulations that make it farcical?

It encourages destruction of wildlife habitats, massive overproduction of food, it costs an excessive amount, money paid on farm size rather than incentivising positive externalities properly, provides little benefit and has encouraged mega-farms (which have a much larger negative environmental impact).

Replacing CAP is literally the only good thing about brexit, particularly if the replacement has much in common with the draft agriculture bill which prioritised subsidies for sustainable farming.
shut up clown. Naby Keita can buy your life and throw it away.

Offline Nobby Reserve

  • Onanistic Charades Champion Of Roundabouts. Euphemistic Gerbil Starver.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 11,984
  • Do you wanna build a snowman?
Re: Brexit and/or Tory and Proud!
« Reply #22 on: March 5, 2020, 03:56:21 pm »
It encourages destruction of wildlife habitats, massive overproduction of food, it costs an excessive amount, money paid on farm size rather than incentivising positive externalities properly, provides little benefit and has encouraged mega-farms (which have a much larger negative environmental impact).

Replacing CAP is literally the only good thing about brexit, particularly if the replacement has much in common with the draft agriculture bill which prioritised subsidies for sustainable farming.


All those problems you list could in theory be resolved within the CAP. The plus side of CAP is that it creates food security stability within the EU, and irons-out the worst of price fluctuations season-to-season. There's a 'throw baby out with the bathwater' element to demanding CAP be got rid of completely.
A Tory, a worker and an immigrant are sat round a table. There's a plate of 10 biscuits in the middle. The Tory takes 9 then turns to the worker and says "that immigrant is trying to steal your biscuit"

Offline CowboyKangaroo

  • aka WayneSkippy
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,679
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Brexit and/or Tory and Proud!
« Reply #23 on: March 5, 2020, 04:08:01 pm »

All those problems you list could in theory be resolved within the CAP. The plus side of CAP is that it creates food security stability within the EU, and irons-out the worst of price fluctuations season-to-season. There's a 'throw baby out with the bathwater' element to demanding CAP be got rid of completely.

I mean sure, it could be fixed, if you fundamentally changed how the subsidies are provided (except for the waste - the waste is fundamentally linked to food stability). Reforms have happened in the past, it isn't impossible, just quite unlikely to have the right reforms in any meaningful time frame. The EU is really good at moving forward and being ahead of the curve in introducing new important legislation or measures. It is less good at going back and fundamentally changing past initiatives. We are much more likely to get small ineffective tweaks.

I'm clearly not suggesting getting rid of CAP, given my support of the draft agriculture bill, which re-gears subsidies towards green and sustainable farming as well as stabilising food production.
shut up clown. Naby Keita can buy your life and throw it away.

Offline kavah

  • the Blacksmith. Definitely NOT from Blackpool!
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 19,710
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Brexit and/or Tory and Proud!
« Reply #24 on: March 6, 2020, 01:20:18 am »
It makes you think about the Planned soviet style agricultural policy - that clearly was not fit for purpose - the U.S model with all of it's chlorinated chickens, soy fed beef, corn-syrup and bio-fuel. Something good to come out of Brexit could have been a fundamental rethink on Agriculture in the U.K for the better* (not that that is very likely of course).

* sustainable farming policies, access rights for all to the countryside, food security, animal welfare. All could be linked to improved nutrition in schools - loads of ways things could be improved if the government were arsed.

Offline Sangria

  • In trying to be right ends up wrong without fail
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 19,109
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Brexit and/or Tory and Proud!
« Reply #25 on: March 6, 2020, 01:47:10 am »
It makes you think about the Planned soviet style agricultural policy - that clearly was not fit for purpose - the U.S model with all of it's chlorinated chickens, soy fed beef, corn-syrup and bio-fuel. Something good to come out of Brexit could have been a fundamental rethink on Agriculture in the U.K for the better* (not that that is very likely of course).

* sustainable farming policies, access rights for all to the countryside, food security, animal welfare. All could be linked to improved nutrition in schools - loads of ways things could be improved if the government were arsed.

All of that needs a fundamental move away from individualist liberalism that has become the norm post-Thatcher. Who is prepared to argue that plenty and choice and freedom can be bad things? Our society is geared to think of them as basic rights. The new socialism needs to be green, not red. The fight that needs to be fought is not by the poor against the rich, or the workers against the bosses. The fight we need to focus on is by the individual against the world that glorifies them.
"i just dont think (Lucas is) that type of player that Kenny wants"
Vidocq, 20 January 2011

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=267148.msg8032258#msg8032258

Offline kavah

  • the Blacksmith. Definitely NOT from Blackpool!
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 19,710
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Brexit and/or Tory and Proud!
« Reply #26 on: March 31, 2020, 05:28:54 am »
Do you think the Covid-19 pandemic will allow the Tories to contemplate a Brexit postponement?

Offline FlashGordon

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 12,727
  • RAWK Cheltenham 2021 Champion Tipster*
Re: Brexit and/or Tory and Proud!
« Reply #27 on: March 31, 2020, 05:04:40 pm »
Do you think the Covid-19 pandemic will allow the Tories to contemplate a Brexit postponement?

Nah they'll go ahead with it and when it turns to shit they'll just add Covid-19 to the long list of things they'll blame it on.
So bloody what? If you watch football to be absolutely miserable then go watch cricket.

Offline John C

  • RAWK Staff
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 42,265
Re: Brexit and/or Tory and Proud!
« Reply #28 on: April 28, 2020, 11:18:07 am »
Is this the only Brexit thread open?

This is raw Brexit madness that we face when the Covid-19 issue is over.


The Transport Secretary Grant Shapps has confirmed UK membership of the European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA), which is responsible for certifying the airworthiness of aircraft will end on 31 December 2020.
ADS has estimated that it would take 10 years and cost up to £40m annually to create a UK safety authority with all the expertise of EASA, against a current contribution to the European agency of £1m to £4m a year.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51783580

Online Elmo!

  • Spolier alret!
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 13,439
Re: Brexit and/or Tory and Proud!
« Reply #29 on: April 28, 2020, 12:41:26 pm »
Is this the only Brexit thread open?

This is raw Brexit madness that we face when the Covid-19 issue is over.


The Transport Secretary Grant Shapps has confirmed UK membership of the European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA), which is responsible for certifying the airworthiness of aircraft will end on 31 December 2020.
ADS has estimated that it would take 10 years and cost up to £40m annually to create a UK safety authority with all the expertise of EASA, against a current contribution to the European agency of £1m to £4m a year.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51783580

I remember reading about this a month or two ago and the theory that the USA will use the leverage they have over a trade deal to force us to accept Boeing self certifying their airplanes safety, which the EASA is no longer doing.

Offline TSC

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 25,484
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Brexit and/or Tory and Proud!
« Reply #30 on: April 28, 2020, 12:47:20 pm »
Is this the only Brexit thread open?

This is raw Brexit madness that we face when the Covid-19 issue is over.


The Transport Secretary Grant Shapps has confirmed UK membership of the European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA), which is responsible for certifying the airworthiness of aircraft will end on 31 December 2020.
ADS has estimated that it would take 10 years and cost up to £40m annually to create a UK safety authority with all the expertise of EASA, against a current contribution to the European agency of £1m to £4m a year.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51783580

All sorts of news going on re Brexit which tend to be tucked within the inside of newspapers due to Covi-19.  None of said news is positive to date (except for ardent ‘leave’ voters).

Online reddebs

  • areddwarfis4lifenotjust4xmas
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 13,112
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Brexit and/or Tory and Proud!
« Reply #31 on: April 28, 2020, 12:47:52 pm »
I remember reading about this a month or two ago and the theory that the USA will use the leverage they have over a trade deal to force us to accept Boeing self certifying their airplanes safety, which the EASA is no longer doing.
Ffs if Boeing said it was raining I'd go and stand outside to check.

I wouldn't trust their "safety" record on anything!

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk


Offline RAWK Meltdown #1

  • "Assume they got our phones, assume they got our houses, assume they got us, right here, right now as we sit, everything. Assume it all..."
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,235
  • " When You Have To Shoot..Shoot...don't TIKI-TAKA"
Re: Brexit and/or Tory and Proud!
« Reply #32 on: April 30, 2020, 06:22:08 am »
Albeit on another fairly recent thread:

Quote
Nobby Reserve Stated:

"It's the task of Labour, the Lib Dems and SNP to work their socks off to pin the blame for every last bit of bad news on Brexit and this hard-right version of the Tory Party choosing to go down the hard Brexit route.

Even if something isn't the fault of Brexit, weave the narrative.
 
Of course, the majority of the mainstream media is either pro-Brexit/pro-Tory or been gelded into compliance by Tory threats, so they're going to be running a counter-narrative.

It's a full-on propaganda war, and so far, the hard-right have pissed all over both the left and the centrists."
Quote
SP Replied...

"There is a huge mistake here. The better course of action it to blame everything on the Tory implementation of Brexit, and on the decisions that Johnson has taken. You don't attack the decision to Brexit, because many voters are emotionally invested in that. You attack Johnson and his competence, because the voting public is fair less emotionally invested in him.

Brexit is an issue that the people will [sic] come around on. Even if it is via a path of Johnson fucking up so badly, rejoin is the only viable option left.

If you battle on Brexit, Johnson will use vacuous sound bites. If you target Johnson personally, he is far more vulnerable."
Quote
Nobby Reserve Conceded...

"That's a very well made point.

Me letting emotion rule head"

And I guess my point of retort, and also concern about these avenues of thought is this:

Does the notion of weaving a counter Brexit narrative on the basis of "fighting fire with fire" which in lieu of Tory party contortions of truth, (lies).... somehow makes such a counter-narrative acceptable?

In the above exchange, a wise "tweak" to the fundamental motivation for attack as it ought to be perceived was introduced, on the basis that there is voter investment for Brexit, and that Johnson himself ought to be targeted on the basis of his competence to implement...etc

I guess my concern is this.

It's that those who feel strongly about Brexit sort of KNOW that the above kind of thoughts have already been kindled in opposition to it. Sort of KNOW that there is an emotional counter-narrative hard at work in a bid to unsettle the pro-Brexit stance, which in many ways, is an opinion which is just as equally susceptible to a set of unwavering emotions.

I honestly think that (within each camp) there are absolutely no elements of surprise left whatsoever, when it comes to attributing a motive to any methodologies being sought to influence a shift.

When it comes to Brexit, nobody will be "cunningly" creeping up on each-other with their cudgel in hand, and their true motivations veiled or masked.

The statement:

Quote
"Even if something isn't the fault of Brexit, weave the narrative..." 

Is a tad naive I feel.....but NOT because it's strategically unsound in and of itself, but mainly because it's precisely what many in the pro-Brexit camp are expecting to occur which means that even if and when significant events unfold which might legitimately force some Brexiteers into an honest state of review, many more are likely to remain emotionally resistant if they have been continuously bombarded with disingenuous narratives which are nought but the blatant progeny of emotional resistance and the desire to undermine.

I genuinely feel that (current crisis notwithstanding) this is going to be this country's next biggest test.

Namely, separating "agenda" from brutal reality, and being in a fit state to steer itself on it's wisest future course.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2020, 06:30:31 am by ...anything will do. »
YNWA

Offline TSC

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 25,484
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop


Offline 12C

  • aka 54F
  • Campaigns
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 13,693
  • “The Ribbons are Red”
"I want to build a team that's invincible, so that they have to send a team from bloody Mars to beat us."

Offline Riquende

  • Taking one for the team by giving one to a lucky mascot? Pix or stfu!! (Although is PC is from the 90s so you'll have to wait a while...)
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,782
  • Μετρήστε με με μανία
Re: Brexit and/or Tory and Proud!
« Reply #36 on: May 14, 2020, 10:35:20 am »
Does this mean they lied to Parliament- again?

Tory MP answer: "Well, I think if you look at what was always said, going right back to Theresa May's opening statements in the negotiations, is that we wanted trade to be as frictionless as possible. And, in the context of what transpired to be possible, we achieved that."

"The nicest thing about quotes is that they give us a nodding acquaintance with the originator which is often socially impressive."

~ Kenneth Williams, with whom I'm noddingly acquainted. Socially impressed?

Offline TSC

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 25,484
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Brexit and/or Tory and Proud!
« Reply #37 on: May 14, 2020, 05:51:24 pm »
Does this mean they lied to Parliament- again?

I recall Boris appearing the worse for wear back in November when joining manufacturing reps in NI announcing there will be no checks.

Offline Machae

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,224
Re: Brexit and/or Tory and Proud!
« Reply #38 on: May 14, 2020, 06:04:23 pm »
Probably more apt in here with the possibility of relaxation of Food Regulations post Brexit

Chancellor Rishi Sunak mistakenly joins rebels in chlorine chicken vote

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-52653607

Offline TSC

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 25,484
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Brexit and/or Tory and Proud!
« Reply #39 on: June 5, 2020, 12:19:56 pm »
Barnier on live now confirming there has been no significant progress in Brexit trade talks.

Barnier confirms EU is open to an extension of the current transition period for 1/2 years.  UK has again doubled down on that option, confirming it is not interested.
« Last Edit: June 5, 2020, 12:44:10 pm by TSC »