Topic: Man City - cheating bastards rumbled

[Pistolero]

Pistoleros Ronay piece needs to be read in tandem with the piece linked by Jill.

Together both pieces provide a subtle yet damning condemnnation of how Abu Dahbi have in essence desecrated the game we all have grown up with solely for the purpose of projecting their own regime.

Sure he stops short of slagging them as the cheating c*nts we know them to be. But to do that is clearly beyond the remit of British Sports journalism for obvious financial risk reasons.

Read a weeny bit between the lines however and it becomes crystal clear that Ronay despises the evil cheating c*nts every bit as much as we do for how they are destroying the very essence, humanity and emotion of the Sport.

Just like Crosby Nick, Jill and Stigen have tried to point out.

I think you (and others) are giving Ronay way too much credit there Timbo....worth noting that the sportswashing piece was from 3 years ago...there's no way he pens something as critical as that now....he's seen which side the wind's blowing post FFP and ESL and is now completely in the swim, beak fully submerged....his City articles now are little more than misty-eyed eulogies, with begrudging, almost gun-to-the-head mentions in passing to the club's obscene financial advantage....soul well and truly sold

[JRed]

Any praise given to Man City would be the same as praising Lance Armstrong for being good on a bike after learning of his cheating. You cannot give praise to people who have blatantly cheated their way to the top, it is completely undeserved.

[Fromola]

Very well said. The Guardian is still (just about) my paper of choice, but this stuff is an embarrassment - just way, way beneath the standards of a publication like that and frankly makes me worry about why a piece like this is being written and approved by the editors. Really shaking my head at it.

The Guardian have always loved all things Manchester.

[The North Bank]

It’s not all about money , at least 5% of their success is down to their manager, who would not have heard of them if it wasn’t for the money.

[L.Suarez]

If they gey Haaland in the summer which most probably will be the case they will become unstopable unfortunatly. Thing is even without him they are the best team in the country by some margin now, and their spending is not the biggest reason for that, history remembers many thems with massive budjets but we should say it as it is - Pep is doing a magnificent job there.

[Fromola]

It’s not all about money , at least 5% of their success is down to their manager, who would not have heard of them if it wasn’t for the money.

The oil money they had given to them has allowed them to the buy the best in everything in all areas of the club and sweep away the competition. There's no glory in it.

[jillcwhomever]

If they gey Haaland in the summer which most probably will be the case they will become unstopable unfortunatly. Thing is even without him they are the best team in the country by some margin now, and their spending is not the biggest reason for that, history remembers many thems with massive budjets but we should say it as it is - Pep is doing a magnificent job there.

It’s easy to do a magnificent job when you have two teams to choose from. I have more respect for what Klopp has achieved without the excess of money than Guardiola has enjoyed.

[JRed]

If they gey Haaland in the summer which most probably will be the case they will become unstopable unfortunatly. Thing is even without him they are the best team in the country by some margin now, and their spending is not the biggest reason for that, history remembers many thems with massive budjets but we should say it as it is - Pep is doing a magnificent job there.

Pardon my French but bollox to that.
Lance Armstrong did a magnificent job on his bike winning all the Tour de France races. Ben Johnson did a magnificent job winning that 100m race. Maradona did a magnificent job punching the ball into the net against England.
It is not a ‘magnificent job’ when you have cheated your way to the top. It is just cheating.

[keyop]

Pistoleros Ronay piece needs to be read in tandem with the piece linked by Jill.

Together both pieces provide a subtle yet damning condemnnation of how Abu Dahbi have in essence desecrated the game we all have grown up with solely for the purpose of projecting their own regime.

Sure he stops short of slagging them as the cheating c*nts we know them to be. But to do that is clearly beyond the remit of British Sports journalism for obvious financial risk reasons.

Read a weeny bit between the lines however and it becomes crystal clear that Ronay despises the evil cheating c*nts every bit as much as we do for how they are destroying the very essence, humanity and emotion of the Sport.

Just like Crosby Nick, Jill and Stigen have tried to point out.

I agree with some of the underlying tone of the piece Timbo, but it's the flipping between two opposing narratives that makes the article such a mess. It's like he sat down to try and tick as many boxes as possible, and write an article that would resonate with everyone, whatever their viewpoint. Instead, it just comes across as a random collection of journalistic guff.

A decent journalist who genuinely wants to highlight the negative effects City have had on the game doesn't write nauseating paragraphs like this one:

And also because of the basic sensory pleasure of watching this champion City team in action, its beguiling patterns, its architectural beauty, its simple sporting virtues, the collectivism, the selfless energy, the way players are coached and improved. In September City went to Stamford Bridge and seemed to be walking through a different kind of gravity, a high-end strangulation reminiscent of Pep Guardiola’s best-of-the-century Barcelona team of 2009-11.

Sensory pleasure? Architectural beauty? Simple sporting virtues? Wow - the lack of self-awareness or any journalistic integrity (or conscience) is clear as day.

It's the equivalent of knowing Lance Armstrong was cheating, but continuing the argument about him being a great rider and his team being well organised.

[Linudden]

I don't think they have that much better squad than the others. It's just that Pep is a lot better manager than people give him credit for. Even with all the money spent, on the pitch they're a team first and foremost. Not a collection of stars, but players who give it everything in every single match.

Once Pep departs for international football within a year or two, it will be extremely hard for them to replace him. They're runaway leaders with no player hitting eight league goals yet so they've really made a collective effort to pull it off without a proper goalscorer. So as much financial cheating as is involved, with Mancini or Pellegrini in charge this team would've not been anywhere near the current points haul in my opinion.

[Mister Flip Flop]

BBC Match report on City game.


Comments blocked


These 'journalists' are fucking anything but

It's happening everywhere mate. I've noticed it here in Ireland also.

[jillcwhomever]

It's incredible how suddenly this thread is about Barney Ronay rather than about Man City. Perhaps people should question why it is that they are getting so bitter about a journalist who has at least attempted to write about Abu Dhabi, rather than the hundreds of journalists who have done bugger all about it. It's the acceptance by the majority of journalists which has made it easier for this god awful ownership to become accepted into English football. But hey ho carry on about going on about his writing style or how he constructs his articles. 

[keyop]

It's incredible how suddenly this thread is about Barney Ronay rather than about Man City.

It isn't about him per se. It's about the slow but deliberate process of sportswashing, and how journalists are complicit.

His attempts to basically say that 'Utd and Chelsea are doing it too, but City are just doing it better' is a good example of how the narrative is being manipulated so that cheating is normalised.

Utd aren't cheating at all - they are being mis-managed and squandering decades of hard-earned revenues. Comparisons of the two clubs just on spending alone are completely misguided considering the wider footballing picture.

[Red-Soldier]

It's incredible how suddenly this thread is about Barney Ronay rather than about Man City. Perhaps people should question why it is that they are getting so bitter about a journalist who has at least attempted to write about Abu Dhabi, rather than the hundreds of journalists who have done bugger all about it. It's the acceptance by the majority of journalists which has made it easier for this god awful ownership to become accepted into English football. But hey ho carry on about going on about his writing style or how he constructs his articles. 

I think you (and others) are giving Ronay way too much credit there Timbo....worth noting that the sportswashing piece was from 3 years ago...there's no way he pens something as critical as that now....he's seen which side the wind's blowing post FFP and ESL and is now completely in the swim, beak fully submerged....his City articles now are little more than misty-eyed eulogies, with begrudging, almost gun-to-the-head mentions in passing to the club's obscene financial advantage....soul well and truly sold

[JRed]

It isn't about him per se. It's about the slow but deliberate process of sportswashing, and how journalists are complicit.

His attempts to basically say that 'Utd and Chelsea are doing it too, but City are just doing it better' is a good example of how the narrative is being manipulated so that cheating is normalised.

Utd aren't cheating at all - they are being mis-managed and squandering decades of hard-earned revenues. Comparisons of the two clubs just on spending alone are completely misguided considering the wider footballing picture.

Exactly this. Trying to compare city with us and united is wrong. City are state owned. City are self sponsoring themselves hundreds of millions every year. They are cheats.

[Flaccido Dongingo]

Anyone that falls into the "nouveau riche" category are always crass, I've known people that have fallen into money, and the likes of Chelsea, Abu Dhabi, Qatar and now the Saudi Arabian Barcodes, it corrupts the fanbase too, who are literally now shills for criminal and immoral practice.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

I'm amazed that anyone bothers even watching them.

They are just the Harlem Globetrotters at this stage.

Souless ground, souless fans, souless manager, souless players.

You could interchange any or all of them and they still would just be buying their success.

[keyop]

I don't think they have that much better squad than the others. It's just that Pep is a lot better manager than people give him credit for.

Barcelona won plenty of trophies before he arrived and plenty after (including the treble under Enrique). Bayern Munich won plenty of trophies before he arrived, plus the last 6 Bundesliga titles since he left. Man City had already started to win trophies before he arrived, including 2 Premier League titles, a League cup and an FA cup.

If anything, it's his predecessors that perhaps don't get enough credit - Rijkaard for giving debuts to Messi, Xavi, Iniesta, Busquets and Valdes, whilst integrating them into a side that contained players like Ronaldinho, Yaya Toure, Deco, and Eto'o. Rijkaard laid many of the foundations for what was to come (often with almost half of his squad coming from the academy), before he was unceremoniously sacked for a bad run just one season after winning the La Liga/Champions league double.

Guardiola won 3 titles at Bayern - just like virtually any other manager that is there for 3 or more seasons over the last 4 decades.

Mancini and Pelegrini won titles with City with far inferior squads, even though the big spending was already well underway at that point.

What Guaridola has done is spend over a £billion in only 5 years to turn the club into a flat track bully machine that no-one (except us with Klopp) had a hope in hell of competing with. There is no doubt Guardiola is an elite coach, but to say he isn't given enough credit is possibly due to some of the factors I've mentioned above - coupled with his arrogance and demeanor with the media.

There's no way for example, he takes a club a like Mainz and gets them promoted to the Bundesliga, or wins two titles with Dortmund in a one team league, or helps us to our first title in 30 years against the most financially doped club in sporting history. Those are achievements far more worthy of credit.

[Fromola]

I don't think they have that much better squad than the others. It's just that Pep is a lot better manager than people give him credit for. Even with all the money spent, on the pitch they're a team first and foremost. Not a collection of stars, but players who give it everything in every single match.

Once Pep departs for international football within a year or two, it will be extremely hard for them to replace him. They're runaway leaders with no player hitting eight league goals yet so they've really made a collective effort to pull it off without a proper goalscorer. So as much financial cheating as is involved, with Mancini or Pellegrini in charge this team would've not been anywhere near the current points haul in my opinion.

He's been flawless domestically as a manager (although you'd like to see him win somewhere without unlimited funds or the world's best players). Could he do what Klopp did at Dortmund (or here)? What Mourinho did at Porto or Simeone at Atletico (in 2014-16) for example? That kind of achievement without having cheat codes. Maybe, maybe not but he's always played management on cheat mode which is what makes it hard to assess his true level. Ferguson for example had showed how good he was at Aberdeen before United.

On the other hand his European record is poor for the quality of the teams and squads he's managed. He's very adept at winning 30+ games out of 38 in a league season with billion pound squads.

And of course if it wasn't for the 20 million a year salary (and whatever else off the books) and unlimited budget, he'd never have entertained going there in the first place.

[Timbo's Goals]

I think you (and others) are giving Ronay way too much credit there Timbo....worth noting that the sportswashing piece was from 3 years ago...there's no way he pens something as critical as that now....he's seen which side the wind's blowing post FFP and ESL and is now completely in the swim, beak fully submerged....his City articles now are little more than misty-eyed eulogies, with begrudging, almost gun-to-the-head mentions in passing to the club's obscene financial advantage....soul well and truly sold

Cheers P.

I take your point.

Got to say I read Jill's linked piece without realizing it was a few years old. I was thinking it was a recent forerunner to the latest piece. I'll have to read them both again but there certainly is as you say a distinct softening in the latest piece of the clear contempt he had when writing the original article a few years ago.

Food for thought for the likes of Jill, Crosby Nick, Stigen and Great Ex and myself to reflect upon. That apparent softening of the initial caustic stance Ronay had in the initial article is cause for concern for any of us who retain hopes that the obscenity that City and their masters represent will be well and truly outed by the British media as the heinous entity they so clearly are to any right thinking person who believes in anything approaching fair sporting competition and genuine reasons for it.

[Mister Flip Flop]

When Pep proves himself going to an actual club without a crazy advantage he'll be respected as one of the best managers of all time IF successful. Rolling into ready made success doesn't prove anything,

[Barneylfc∗]

When Pep proves himself going to an actual club without a crazy advantage he'll be respected as one of the best managers of all time IF successful. Rolling into ready made success doesn't prove anything,

The lapdogs in the media will class him as such anyway. They'll just ignore that he's only ever won a European Cup with Messi, Xavi, Iniesta

[Darkness]

When Pep proves himself going to an actual club without a crazy advantage he'll be respected as one of the best managers of all time IF successful. Rolling into ready made success doesn't prove anything,

He actually needs to be poor at his job to get offered those types of roles, Mourinho declined and is now taking jobs like Roma.  As much as we hate Pep he's damn good at his job and one of the best in the world he rarely has an off season to even put himself in the position to be sacked like numerous other managers have done at big-money clubs.

[Andy82lfc]

Pardon my French but bollox to that.
Lance Armstrong did a magnificent job on his bike winning all the Tour de France races. Ben Johnson did a magnificent job winning that 100m race. Maradona did a magnificent job punching the ball into the net against England.
It is not a ‘magnificent job’ when you have cheated your way to the top. It is just cheating.

Exactly. It's likely praising my mate for winning championship manager on cheat mode. Yeah he did a better job than me, an maybe he's the best ever at playing in cheat mode, but we were still cheating.

It's a point that a lot of city fans, like the ones that sometimes crawl out onto here, completely miss. Instead they throw around straw men and perform mental gymnastics the like anti-vaxxers would be proud of.

[Fromola]

He actually needs to be poor at his job to get offered those types of roles, Mourinho declined and is now taking jobs like Roma.  As much as we hate Pep he's damn good at his job and one of the best in the world he rarely has an off season to even put himself in the position to be sacked like numerous other managers have done at big-money clubs.

What makes Pep such an outlier though is his first job being the success at Barca (you could add Zidane to that at Real who won 3 European Cups in his first 3 seasons as a manager).

For Klopp to get the Liverpool job he had the amazing achievements at Dortmund. Rafa at Valencia. For Mourinho to get the big jobs he had to work miracles at Porto. Ferguson at Aberdeen.

Pep has never cut his teeth anywhere like that. He's just had it made at the jobs he's had.

[Darkness]

What makes Pep such an outlier though is his first job being the success at Barca (you could add Zidane to that at Real who won 3 European Cups in his first 3 seasons as a manager).

For Klopp to get the Liverpool job he had the amazing achievements at Dortmund. Rafa at Valencia. For Mourinho to get the big jobs he had to work miracles at Porto. Ferguson at Aberdeen.

Pep has never cut his teeth anywhere like that. He's just had it made at the jobs he's had.

He's a former Barcelona player who was coaching the B team he got offered the job hardly the most shocking underserved appointment has happened numerous times in Spain. He took the Barcelona did a very good job and the rest is history unlike Ole Solskjaer at Man Utd who was woefully out of his depth making it up as he went along.

[alonsoisared]

Pep is an unbelievably good coach. I do think, as much as City have cheated their way to the top, that once he's gone it'll be a more competitive league. Could he do it at a lower club? I'm not sure. But if you're a top team and you want league titles then you can't go wrong with him. It's a very different challenge compared to what Klopp has done with us but it's a challenge regardless, league titles are never guaranteed, look at the money united have spent to end up a country mile away year after year.

What they have built, with all their millions, is a club that is pretty smart in the transfer market (until grealish they didn't really go for the names like their neighbours do) while being able to afford expensive mistakes and go again They've got outstanding depth, far beyond what the rest of the league have. And they've also got a manager who is the ultimate flat track bully. They'll win the league 9 times out of ten in this set up. But the manager does play a part as we saw in the years preceding guardiola. My only hope is he goes and klopp stays for another few years to end his era here with the amount of silverware his work deserves.

[Linudden]

Pep is one of the best league season managers in the history of the game. However, he's nothing special when it comes to the Champions League so there are two sides to every coin. Having said that, taking an unbiased look at the squads he's had at City versus the points totals in 2018, 2019, 2021 and now this year, it's mightily impressive. That he's blown a lot of money on mediocre players in the meantime which has forced his teams to overachieve on the field instead is another matter. He's accomplished the kind of results you'd expect for that investment, even with sides that on paper don't live up to the money spent.

Klopp on the other hand has exceeded expectations for net spend, but given how he has succeeded in the transfer market, you could instead argue that pound for pound the past 1.5 years have been a proper underachievement in the wake of those two unbelieveable seasons. Mainly, I'm suspecting that part of the reason why both Dortmund and Liverpool declined after four years of Klopp is that he works the players so hard in training that eventually they start getting a lot of injuries. Combine that with FSG not wanting to release any money and he gets two hands tied behind his back in comparison to City. This is since he needs squad reinforcement of fresh legs to maintain the same type of effort that spellbound everyone between 2018 and 2020. I firmly believe the current LFC starting XI is better than what City has, but multiple players are out injured all the time ever since the league title was won. This is why I feel that Klopp has a higher ceiling than Pep has, but also a lower floor when he's not given adequate cover for the overworked players.

[JRed]

Pep is an unbelievably good coach. I do think, as much as City have cheated their way to the top, that once he's gone it'll be a more competitive league. Could he do it at a lower club? I'm not sure. But if you're a top team and you want league titles then you can't go wrong with him. It's a very different challenge compared to what Klopp has done with us but it's a challenge regardless, league titles are never guaranteed, look at the money united have spent to end up a country mile away year after year.

What they have built, with all their millions, is a club that is pretty smart in the transfer market (until grealish they didn't really go for the names like their neighbours do) while being able to afford expensive mistakes and go again They've got outstanding depth, far beyond what the rest of the league have. And they've also got a manager who is the ultimate flat track bully. They'll win the league 9 times out of ten in this set up. But the manager does play a part as we saw in the years preceding guardiola. My only hope is he goes and klopp stays for another few years to end his era here with the amount of silverware his work deserves.

This is why it’s not a magnificent achievement. They have not been pretty smart in the transfer market.
It’s a scattergun approach until you finally get it right.
Other clubs cannot just write off expensive mistakes and go again, they have to keep the expensive mistakes and carry on regardless. They do not just go and sign another £50m if the first, second or third one doesn’t work out.

[Barneylfc∗]

Darkness and Linudden singing Ped's praises and defending him from the big bad Liverpool fans who can see him for what he is. Who'd have thunk it.

What a time to be alive.

[Andy82lfc]

He's a former Barcelona player who was coaching the B team he got offered the job hardly the most shocking appointment has happened numerous times in Spain. He took Barcelona did a very good job and the rest is history unlike Ole solskjaer at Man Utd who was woefully out of his depth making it up as he went along.

Nobody is comparing him to Ole. He is a fantastic manager, no doubt, but he has never proved himself at a club with limited resources, or even resources the likes of a very big club such as Liverpool have. That is a fact you can't argue.

At Barca Pep inherited some of the best young talent in Spanish football history at the time that luckily happened to be there, he also happened to have the best footballer of possibly all time there. Not exactly Porto or Mainz.

He then inherited a treble winning Bayern Munich side who's job it is to walk the league almost every season, a shit ton of money but he still failed to win anything in Europe or do anything better than his predecessor or managers that would come after him.

Then he spent the odd billion pound at City managed through financial doping.

[Linudden]

Lol Barney come on

I'd also like to see Pep taking on a Milan or something like that and see what he could do, but he's not obliged to take on jobs just to prove that he could do it on a cold night in Sassuolo. Thing is that he'd been offered the same kind of financial support at Man United that he got in the sky blue corner and look at where they are now.

To me it's still more likely that Klopp lifts the Champions League trophy at the end of the season than Pep does though. The current Liverpool side is made for games like that.

[Darkness]

Darkness and Linudden singing Ped's praises and defending him from the big bad Liverpool fans who can see him for what he is. Who'd have thunk it.

What a time to be alive.

It's called a constructive debate. I mean do you honestly want to read comments where we just call our rival clubs and players shit over and over like some deluded red, that's the kind of content you get on Reddit from 5-year-olds. Rawk is a superior platform where you can have a meaningful discussion.

[jacobs chains]

I'm amazed that anyone bothers even watching them.

They are just the Harlem Globetrotters at this stage.

Souless ground, souless fans, souless manager, souless players.

You could interchange any or all of them and they still would just be buying their success.

Nah, the Harlem Globetrotters were funny and didn't fuck up the NBA.

[lobsterboy]

It's called a constructive debate. I mean do you honestly want to read comments where we just call our rival clubs and players shit over and over like some deluded red, that's the kind of content you get on Reddit from 5-year-olds. Rawk is a superior platform where you can have a meaningful discussion.

There is no meaningful discussion beyond the cheating and the sportswashing. They make everything else irrelevant.

[tubby]

Guardiola is an excellent manager, one who would have his teams competing for league titles regardless of money.  But they wouldn't be competing at the level they are now, nowhere near, and that's the difference the unlimited budget makes.

[Flaccido Dongingo]

Guardiola is an excellent manager, one who would have his teams competing for league titles regardless of money.  But they wouldn't be competing at the level they are now, nowhere near, and that's the difference the unlimited budget makes.

Strange then that he didn't have Abu Dhabi competing for the league in his first season, despite having the most expensive squad even then.

[tubby]

Strange then that he didn't have Abu Dhabi competing for the league in his first season, despite having the most expensive squad even then.

Don't think that's all that strange, it took Klopp a while to get us challenging.  Having the most expensive squad doesn't mean he's got a squad that's capable of playing the way he wants to.

If you give Guardiola and Klopp similar budgets and starting points, then Klopp wins more trophies, but Guardiola would still be challenging for the league (but not pissing the League Cup every season).  He's a top quality manager.

[JRed]

Don't think that's all that strange, it took Klopp a while to get us challenging.  Having the most expensive squad doesn't mean he's got a squad that's capable of playing the way he wants to.

If you give Guardiola and Klopp similar budgets and starting points, then Klopp wins more trophies, but Guardiola would still be challenging for the league (but not pissing the League Cup every season).  He's a top quality manager.

Lance Armstrong was a top quality cyclist. Doesn’t mean he deserves any credit for winning races.
Pep has only ever managed where he can outspend everyone else and already inherited the best team in the league. Plus he is a hypocrite working for such a horrific regime. Deserves no credit IMO.

[tubby]

Lance Armstrong was a top quality cyclist. Doesn’t mean he deserves any credit for winning races.
Pep has only ever managed where he can outspend everyone else and already inherited the best team in the league. Plus he is a hypocrite working for such a horrific regime. Deserves no credit IMO.

I'm not talking about whether he deserves credit or not, I'm just talking about how good a manager he is.