Author Topic: For those who are still bitter about sunday's performance... (Read 4109 times)

Clemenza · « **on:** October 4, 2005, 12:42:22 am »

...Let me ask you this question: Did you think that Liverpool had any chance to mount any serious title challenge?

I secretly hoped that chelsea would have a rough spell of their own with some inconsistencies, so they allow Liverpool to catch up to them. Much like how arsenal surrendered the title to chelsea last season half way through.

However after comparing our performances to their's so far, the gap may very well be even bigger this year. Thank god Benitez put things in perspective in the beginning of the season by saying we need to close the gap on chelsea. Perhaps, taking that 37 points, and shrink it down to 20.

We had a decent start if you compare our results from last season. We gained more points than we did in our previous attempts, even though it was not that many. If you look at the table though, you can clearly see that chelsea is raising their standards as well. They are already 17 points ahead of us. Even if we have 2 games in hand.

After our 4-1 defeat at anfield, I felt quite disappointed, but not necessarily bitter. I do realise that under our circumstances, we have made some improvements, but the most important issues of last season still haven't been solved.

Simply put, the reason why we are not ready to challenge chelsea is because we don't have 2 quality players in each position. Heck, some of our first team players are not even up to standards.

Even if we do get a winger, or if one of our strikers find their hidden power...or if our defenders stop making mistakes for a while, what happens when they need rest or get injured?

It would be great if Benitez can sort out these problems, even if it's just a temporary solution. Most importantly, he needs to do so before january. Those anticipating the acquisition of joaquin or simao, please realise that their impact however great it can be, might be too late. On top of that, they are cup tied, so no champions league winger for us. Not to mention, rick parry's proposed 15 million transfer fund will most likely not be enough to lure in a top centre back as well.

Personally, I'm only disappointed in that one match, because our team got breached due to mistakes. We evened out chelsea on wednesday. I don't see why people are getting so worked up on the scoreline. The real concern is how to close the gap on chelsea this season. Not whether we are a better side than them, which has been clearly answered.

zimmie'5555 · « **Reply #1 on:** October 4, 2005, 12:52:56 am »

Alot of very good points there. I never expected to be challenging for the title, because as you say, we simply don't have enough quality attacking players in the team, let alone the squad. As for the game itself, the scoreline flattered them, but it was a self inflicted defeat for the most part, our mistakes cost us. If one good thing comes out of that game is that it will bring some perspective to some of our supporters whom had unrealistic expectations of challenging seriously for the title before the start of the season.

Ken-Obi · « **Reply #2 on:** October 4, 2005, 01:06:58 am »

It's Tuesday.
Get a grip already!

Rizla · « **Reply #3 on:** October 4, 2005, 01:19:52 am »

I thought the title was beyond us this year but I aw us in with a chance of mixing it with a Vieira less Arsenal and a Man Utd side stagnating under Ferguson if we got the right players in in the summer. However deadline day came and went...we sold Baros, Nunez and allowed an admittedly past it Pellegrino to go and did not really replace any of them in the type of roles they filled when it was a oft mentioned priority to bring in better players for those positions. Apart from Crouch who has been used in the wrong way so far, we failed to bring in anybody for those positions. The only areas we strengthened were areas where we had adequate resources [ Centre Midfield and arguably the Goalkeepers] already

Result...a collection of sterile displays against a clutch of average to competent sides in the league and a humiliating reverse against the top side Chelsea. Just get the feeling that already weak areas of our present squad were left even weaker than at the end of last season after the summer, which is a massive frustration

mikeb58 · « **Reply #4 on:** October 4, 2005, 02:21:26 am »

Don't think anyones in with a shout of the title for as long as Chelsea can outbid anyone else for a player they fancy.

Our chances of pulling off 2nd or 3rd in my opinion disappeared when we failed to bring in a proven goal scorer. If we were offered 4th spot now at the end of the season, would you take it ?

I know I certainly would.

Bluto-clause · « **Reply #5 on:** October 4, 2005, 06:05:34 am »

Quote from: Alloy on October 4, 2005, 02:21:26 am

Don't think anyones in with a shout of the title for as long as Chelsea can outbid anyone else for a player they fancy.

Our chances of pulling off 2nd or 3rd in my opinion disappeared when we failed to bring in a proven goal scorer. If we were offered 4th spot now at the end of the season, would you take it ?

I know I certainly would.

Stick that Post up your arse, sure Chelsea have the League wrapped up, but as far as I'm concerned 2nd is up for grabs,
And we can win any of the cups, including Champions League again.

SwedenRed · « **Reply #6 on:** October 4, 2005, 06:27:59 am »

Quote from: Alloy on October 4, 2005, 02:21:26 am

If we were offered 4th spot now at the end of the season, would you take it ?

I know I certainly would.

With a hesitant 'yes'.
My worry is if we finish outside the top 4, which means no Champions League next season, means little cash to spend on players. A downward slope could loom... 'Unless' we gamble and purchase players in the transfer window, use our crop of players effectively, move to a 4-4-2, pressure defenses, we should make top 4 spot once again. As for the league... 17 points behind Chelsea we need a miracle.
If it was down to the board not to buy players during the summer, then they obviously lack the ambition on the pitch, and would rather keep the cash in the hope of regular Champions League football. Are they waiting for Abramovic to leave? Then pounce on the quality they cant keep anymore?

A fine chance

SwedenRed · « **Reply #7 on:** October 4, 2005, 06:29:56 am »

Quote from: Bluto on October 4, 2005, 06:05:34 am

Stick that Post up your arse

Good morning

Saracen Salcano · « **Reply #8 on:** October 4, 2005, 06:36:52 am »

Quote from: SwedenRed on October 4, 2005, 06:27:59 am

With a hesitant 'yes'.

thing is, not can we get 4th, but is there anyone else good enough to pip us for it. i think there isn't.

Frankly, the Premiershit is at its worse moment IMO. The rest of the pile can't do anything right even if if Stuart Pearce kissed all thier arses

SwedenRed · « **Reply #9 on:** October 4, 2005, 06:48:34 am »

Quote from: yournamehere on October 4, 2005, 06:36:52 am

thing is, not can we get 4th, but is there anyone else good enough to pip us for it. i think there isn't.

Frankly, the Premiershit is at its worse moment IMO. The rest of the pile can't do anything right even if if Stuart Pearce kissed all thier arses

I agree with you there, the Premiership is pretty bad, especially with the standard of games we have seen . Apart from Chelsea, cant see anyone else good enough. Maybe they all know the Premiership is out of reach and the other clubs simply do not wish to waste their cash on players to compete at the moment.

DukeRed · « **Reply #10 on:** October 4, 2005, 06:56:49 am »

Being realistic doesn't make losing any less painful

Saracen Salcano · « **Reply #11 on:** October 4, 2005, 06:58:48 am »

Quote from: SwedenRed on October 4, 2005, 06:48:34 am

Maybe they all know the Premiership is out of reach and the other clubs simply do not wish to waste their cash.

yup, or waste thier time.

which wastes ours.

It was pathetic seeing West Brom line up their reserve and youth players against Chelsea as they felt they lost all hope and didn't have the bottle nor courage to have a go with their strongest 11.

But then again it is Bryan Robsons team.

Neil D · « **Reply #12 on:** October 4, 2005, 08:45:17 am »

Quote from: Bluto on October 4, 2005, 06:05:34 am

Stick that Post up your arse, sure Chelsea have the League wrapped up, but as far as I'm concerned 2nd is up for grabs,
And we can win any of the cups, including Champions League again.

Too right. I'm sick of all this defeatist bollocks. Arsenal went unbeaten all season and they were dethroned, United had those back-to-back titles when they wrapped the league up months before it finished. Fuck Chelsea, our time will come.

I've watched some cracking games in the Premiership this year, some real contests such as the spate of 3-2's at the weekend. This is media-fuelled shite, boring for who exactly? If it's more boring for neutrals because Chelsea have the league wrapped up early well I don't give a damn, what's it got to do with them anyway? We've still got plenty to play for and if we can jump from fifth to second or third and bring hope another cup we'll have had a cracking season.

Red-juvenated · « **Reply #13 on:** October 4, 2005, 09:16:05 am »

Talking about winning the PL would only be realistic if Chelsea was at Par with the rest of us, but they are not. Injuries are not going to bother them, tired legs can instantly be replaced with fresh, 'want-to-prove-a-point' players raring to get a chance. Not to mention the immense drive of going for the quadruple.

What we CAN talk about is OUR performance. If we achieve our targets of converting 90% of last seasons losses to draws, and draws into wins, there's 35 points more to be made. With a level playing field, 85 points would be enough to win the PL. All we need to do is keep our noses to the ground and meet our targets because winning the PL would not be in our hands any more, it would only happen IF Chelsea dropped a lot of points.

So instead of talking about what OTHER teams will do, lets just concentrate on our team reaching a realistic target with this handicap against Chelsea.

thewing · « **Reply #14 on:** October 4, 2005, 09:25:42 am »

Take Chelsea out of it, and it would be an exciting league.Arsenal and UTD don't look the force of previous years this year, so we have a chance of pipping them, thing is we'll prob end up 20 points behind Chelsea.Premiership has been ruined as far as I'm concered.If you pumped 300m into Kidderminster they'd win the premiership consistently(albeit after 4 years of promotions).It's a fucking joke.....look at the La Liga table in comparison to Prem table and you'll see an example of level enough playing field(Real have money but don't know how to spend it).

StuartC · « **Reply #15 on:** October 4, 2005, 09:45:18 am »

Quote from: thewing on October 4, 2005, 09:25:42 am

If you pumped 300m into Kidderminster they'd win the premiership consistently(albeit after 4 years of promotions).

Stop Press: Rumours of an Abramovitch-cheat in Champ Manager 2006 lead to Kidderminster winning Premier League after 4 successive promotions and the 4 Carling Cups and 4 FA cups!

myrlas · « **Reply #16 on:** October 4, 2005, 10:38:01 am »

Quote from: thewing on October 4, 2005, 09:25:42 am

Take Chelsea out of it, and it would be an exciting league.Arsenal and UTD don't look the force of previous years this year, so we have a chance of pipping them, thing is we'll prob end up 20 points behind Chelsea.Premiership has been ruined as far as I'm concered.If you pumped 300m into Kidderminster they'd win the premiership consistently(albeit after 4 years of promotions).It's a fucking joke.....look at the La Liga table in comparison to Prem table and you'll see an example of level enough playing field(Real have money but don't know how to spend it).

Arsenaland Utd have been hit with some crucial injuries lately. With Campbell back, Arsenal seems to be back keeping clean sheets, and when Henry is back they will start scoring more goals than they do. It's stupid and ignorant to write Arsenal off. Man U have bigger problems with Neville and Heinze + Keane out for quite a long time. But they CAN compete..unless Ferguson has lost it of course (modern approaches sorts him out it seems)

Monkey Red · « **Reply #17 on:** October 4, 2005, 10:40:16 am »

I wouldn´t say stick that post up your arse, I´m too polite for that

. But I would say that 2nd or 3rd is always a target for us to reach for this season. We´ve only played 5 bloody games, so it´s all open yet.

thewing · « **Reply #18 on:** October 4, 2005, 10:46:00 am »

Yeah, but how hard is it to get excited about aiming for 2nd or 3rd?

Anthony · « **Reply #19 on:** October 4, 2005, 10:48:06 am »

I don't look at the points gap - which is largely out of our hands - but our own points total. For instance, if the question last year was to narrow the gap to Arsenal, the previous season's Champions, then we achieved that - but only because Arsenal dropped more points than we did!

59-60 points is not good enough for this club - it cost 1 manager his job and would have placed another under increasing pressure had it not been his first season in a new league spent pulling off a minor miracle in his speciality field.

Our minimum target needs to be closer to 70-75 points - realistically this will not be enough to win the league but should be enough to secure at least a Champions League Place (assuming the Mancs don't finish outside the top 4 and win - it would be ironic if we were the ones to suffer from the "clarification" of the rules!

)

I have faith though - at the weekend I put £5 each way at 13/2 on Liverpool to win the League not counting Chelsea (in practice finish 2nd or 3rd) - I understand the odds are now 9/1 but never mind...

PS - I don't know if somebody has mentioned this already but out record last season against the clubs we have played this season (substitute Crystal Palace for Sunderland) is P6 W1 D1 L4 F4 A9 (4 points with a -5 goal difference) Edit - HH has - VERY well! - http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=81017.0

inky2 · « **Reply #20 on:** October 4, 2005, 10:48:43 am »

we have no choice at the moment but nothing lasts forever. we're in this for the long term

Monkey Red · « **Reply #21 on:** October 4, 2005, 11:11:32 am »

Quote from: thewing on October 4, 2005, 10:46:00 am

Yeah, but how hard is it to get excited about aiming for 2nd or 3rd?

Better than aiming for 4th and ending up behind the bitters in 5th.

thewing · « **Reply #22 on:** October 4, 2005, 11:26:18 am »

Quote from: Anthony on October 4, 2005, 10:48:06 am

I don't look at the points gap - which is largely out of our hands - but our own points total. For instance, if the question last year was to narrow the gap to Arsenal, the previous season's Champions, then we achieved that - but only because Arsenal dropped more points than we did!

59-60 points is not good enough for this club - it cost 1 manager his job and would have placed another under increasing pressure had it not been his first season in a new league spent pulling off a minor miracle in his speciality field.

Our minimum target needs to be closer to 70-75 points - realistically this will not be enough to win the league but should be enough to secure at least a Champions League Place (assuming the Mancs don't finish outside the top 4 and win - it would be ironic if we were the ones to suffer from the "clarification" of the rules! )

I have faith though - at the weekend I put £5 each way at 13/2 on Liverpool to win the League not counting Chelsea (in practice finish 2nd or 3rd) - I understand the odds are now 9/1 but never mind...

PS - I don't know if somebody has mentioned this already but out record last season against the clubs we have played this season (substitute Crystal Palace for Sunderland) is P6 W1 D1 L4 F4 A9 (4 points with a -5 goal difference) Edit - HH has - VERY well! - http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=81017.0

I agree with you, points total and not positions should be our aim

Get the points and the position will take care of itself.

Can't do anything about what other teams are doin

PaulF · « **Reply #23 on:** October 4, 2005, 11:47:56 am »

It'll be more interesting at the end of the season. If Chelsea have sewn it up and we are competing with Utd and Arsenal for 2nd,3rd and 4th then there will be a lot to play for.

AdamL · « **Reply #24 on:** October 4, 2005, 12:09:07 pm »

the scoreline hurt much more the other day than the performance or the result.

we never deserved to lose 4-1, and its easy after a battering scoreline to get down about it all. to be honest, this season when its come to football i've felt a great deal of apathy. There seems to be no competition left when a team can just buy all the best players like that.

I dont actually think chelsea are that good. they beat teams, but they dont destroy teams. some teams give them far too much weight. west brom going there playing a reserve side, its farcial when that happens. they are not invincible, they can be beaten.

just remember, whatever chelsea win or achieve now, its not as if theyve really achived it. an achivement is something you work for, that it takes effort to bring to life. the other day they were singing 'thats why we're champions', and i sat there and smiled to myself. i know the reason theyre champions. and i know they know it as well. They can beat teams all they want. but they and their fans know that they will never be respected as champions.

its the same as if drugs were legal in 100m running. would you be respected if you won it by pumping yourself full of steroids? no, you wouldn't. you'd be respected if you trained hard and earned it yourself.

When arsenal won the league, i remember thinking how wonderful it must have been to be an arsenal fan. dazzling football every week, battering teams out of sight. they had my utmost respect because theyd worked hard to get there for a long time. they did spend a lot of money, but the gems uncovered by wenger were amazing.

and as much as i hate them mancs, when they were winning everything in sight, my hatred did not dampen a grudging respect for them. whether you liked it or not, they were an excellent football team, well put together, always entertaining to watch. they too had earned everything they had. ferguson brought through his fair share of good players, the nevilles, beckham, scholes. like i say, i hated them and im well chuffed theyre not top of the tree anymore. but you still respected them as champions.

but chelsea? i dont respect them. i don't look at them as an example of how to operate a football team. i dont view them with any envy. theirs is a hollow victory. they represent everything that is wrong with football, and their fans know it. yes, they are champions. but they will never be seen as champions.

Art Vandelay · « **Reply #25 on:** October 4, 2005, 12:19:19 pm »

Quote from: thewing on October 4, 2005, 09:25:42 am

If you pumped 300m into Kidderminster they'd win the premiership consistently(albeit after 4 years of promotions).

As I currently reside in Kidderminster, allow me to allay your fears...even if £2billion was pumped into Kiddy Harriers, they'd still find a way to completely and utterly cock it up. The owners make Ridsdale look like a frickin genius.

The_Nomad · « **Reply #26 on:** October 4, 2005, 03:56:59 pm »

Quote from: Art Vandelay on October 4, 2005, 12:19:19 pm

As I currently reside in Kidderminster, allow me to allay your fears...even if £2billion was pumped into Kiddy Harriers, they'd still find a way to completely and utterly cock it up. The owners make Ridsdale look like a frickin genius.

mikeb58 · « **Reply #27 on:** October 4, 2005, 05:16:24 pm »

Nice well reasoned reply Bluto, I was pointing out that realistically ( without the signing of a proven goal scorer ) we would do well to finish 4th, and that AT the moment I would gladly accept 4th place at the end of the season.

That in itself is an improvement on last season, and as far as the cups go, I agree we could win any, or all of them, it was our League position I was commenting on.

Мерфи · « **Reply #28 on:** October 4, 2005, 06:26:00 pm »

Quote from: Neil D on October 4, 2005, 08:45:17 am

Too right. I'm sick of all this defeatist bollocks. Arsenal went unbeaten all season and they were dethroned, United had those back-to-back titles when they wrapped the league up months before it finished. Fuck Chelsea, our time will come.

I've watched some cracking games in the Premiership this year, some real contests such as the spate of 3-2's at the weekend. This is media-fuelled shite, boring for who exactly? If it's more boring for neutrals because Chelsea have the league wrapped up early well I don't give a damn, what's it got to do with them anyway? We've still got plenty to play for and if we can jump from fifth to second or third and bring hope another cup we'll have had a cracking season.

Fecking too right!! Well said Mr. Neil.

What's boring is reading the same crap in the papers and boards about tactics this, goals that, talent nowt, money shite. There always has to be an evil empire to topple. Now lesgo topple the ruso-cockney bastards. If you don't think that we were somebody Scot-scouse bastards before the Mancs and Chelsea rose to prominence, you're blinkered.

This drawing and losing buisiness has left a bad taste in my mouth, but football has not gotten boring. And take a look at the schedule ahead. 2 points from relegation? IS that what some people are quoting?!! Bull cock! 2 games in hand and a slew of points ahead - thats what I'll quote you.

Curva Nord '77 · « **Reply #29 on:** October 5, 2005, 09:15:55 am »

Quote from: Bluto on October 4, 2005, 06:05:34 am

Stick that Post up your arse, sure Chelsea have the League wrapped up, but as far as I'm concerned 2nd is up for grabs,
And we can win any of the cups, including Champions League again.

AGREED. We can get close to Chelsea at the top and past Utd and the Arse.

The CL is up for grabs. It's OURS. Some bastard has to take it off us.

NOT EASY.

BELIEVE.

PARIS HERE WE COME.

theCanadian · « **Reply #30 on:** October 5, 2005, 02:07:15 pm »

Before the season started I was not expecting us to have a serious challenge for the title. I was expecting 4th place, with about a 15point improvement on last season's total. That appears to still be a possibility and I think most fans would be satisfied (yes I know some of you think we can't be satisfied until we win the title, but doing that takes time if you don't have oil money in your coffers).

It doesn't make losing the game any better though and I am still bitter about the way in which success has been brought to Chelsea.

Raul! · « **Reply #31 on:** October 5, 2005, 03:03:10 pm »

This from Rafa - .tv. Common sense.

_______________________________

Rafael Benitez has told his players they'll soon start celebrating Premiership victories if they maintain their early season standards.
The Liverpool manager is disappointed after having collected just one win from the first six games, but he is adamant his team will pick up many more points if they reproduce the level of performances they have shown so far.

With Chelsea and Manchester United having visited Anfield and with tricky trips to Middlesbrough and Tottenham behind them, Benitez knows the chance to move up the table will come over the next few weeks when the Reds face teams they will be expected to defeat.

He said: "After the Chelsea game I told the players to forget about it and not waste time being down about the result. It was one game and one defeat, nothing more.

"I'm not looking at the league table for the moment, firstly because we have played less games then anyone else and also because we can't do anything to change it until we play Blackburn. That's what I'm thinking about now.

"I am happy with the performances we have produced this season. We've had some difficult games and I've said to the players that if they keep playing like that then they will win games. We just need to approach the matches with confidence and a belief that what we are doing is right.

"It's not ideal that we've lost the players for over a week straight after the Chelsea game because I would have preferred to be with them, to support them and keep encouraging them.

"It's important that we keep going and keep our confidence. We made mistakes in one game and now we have to learn from them and move on.

"Chelsea is behind us and Blackburn is next. It will be another tough game because they are a good team who play with good organisation and are very compact, but if we play as we have been doing lately then we can win."