Author Topic: The Results Comparison 2005/06 (Read 79924 times)

JP-65 · « **Reply #800 on:** April 17, 2006, 05:05:46 pm »

Updated after today's matches (pre evening match):

Chelsea +0 95 (95)
Man Utd +6 77 (83)
Liverpool +21 58 (79)
Arsenal -16 83 (67)
Spurs +9 52 (61)
Bolton -2 58 (56)
Charlton +4 46 (50)
Everton -11 61 (50)
Boro -6 55 (49)
Man City -7 52 (45)

Not much movement today, Boro improved.

Anthony · « **Reply #801 on:** April 17, 2006, 05:11:44 pm »

Quote from: Hunts Cross on April 17, 2006, 04:10:38 pm

Looking at the updated rankings, as in previous years, I have no idea why Newcastle United rank as highly as they do.

Newcastle have had a couple of strong seasons in the UEFA Cup (1 semi & 1 quarter final). Combined with the season in the Champions League this gives them a standing which will stand them in good stead for another couple of seasons yet. In fact, if you look at http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/data/method3/trank2007.html you will see that they actually start next season level with the mancs...

BTW W. Ham now out of the race for 4th...

BCCC · « **Reply #802 on:** April 17, 2006, 05:15:50 pm »

Looks like Spurs are gonna choke. I fancy Arsenal for 4th.

Anthony · « **Reply #803 on:** April 17, 2006, 07:12:38 pm »

I've posted 2 threads in the General Football Forum regarding UEFA qualification.

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=117712.0 - Intertoto Cup Draw - 2 ties from Europe

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=117717.0 - Why I believe 7th Place will not qualify for the UEFA Cup - even if Middlesbrough win it...

JP-65 · « **Reply #804 on:** April 17, 2006, 08:25:53 pm »

Anthony has, previously, asked for Blackburn to be added to the comparison.

In order to prepare for next season I have looked at the current "Top 10", and done the prep work to add Blackburn, Newcastle, West Ham and Wigan, presuming they maintain their "Top 10" status.

Since West Ham and Wigan weren't in the PL last season there isn't a comparison to the prior season, but the following now includes Blackburn and Newcastle.

Chelsea +0 95 (95)
Man Utd +6 77 (83)
Liverpool +21 58 (79)
Arsenal -16 83 (67)
Spurs +9 52 (61)
Bolton -2 58 (56)
Newcastle+12 44 (56)
Blackburn +13 42 (55)
Charlton +4 46 (50)
Everton -11 61 (50)
Boro -6 55 (49)
Man City -7 52 (45)

JP-65 · « **Reply #805 on:** April 17, 2006, 10:05:01 pm »

Updated after tonight's Bolton match:

Chelsea +0 95 (95)
Man Utd +6 77 (83)
Liverpool +21 58 (79)
Arsenal -16 83 (67)
Spurs +9 52 (61)
Bolton -1 58 (57)
Newcastle+12 44 (56)
Blackburn +13 42 (55)
Charlton +4 46 (50)
Everton -11 61 (50)
Boro -6 55 (49)
Man City -7 52 (45)

Anthony · « **Reply #806 on:** April 18, 2006, 12:31:59 am »

Quote from: JP-65 on April 17, 2006, 08:25:53 pm

Anthony has, previously, asked for Blackburn to be added to the comparison.

Thanks!

Following Bolton's draw its effectively a 3-way fight for 4th now between Spurs, Arsenal & Blackburn.

(Since Spurs & Arsenal play each other the only chance Bolton have are for Arsenal to win at the weekend and then lose all the rest of their matches...)

StevieG26 · « **Reply #807 on:** April 18, 2006, 04:21:37 pm »

Third place it is then. Very consistent season it's been for the Reds. Even when we weren't winning, we were losing games consistently lol. Much better than the W L D W L D W L sequence of last year though.

Garstonite · « **Reply #808 on:** April 18, 2006, 04:24:56 pm »

Yes, it's been a great season. People believe we are still not quite good enough for the title yet, but if we hadn't started so poorly, we may still be worth a shout now.

The big difference is what we do against the sides above us, really. One point from a possible twelve is a big disappointed. I expect at least six from Chelsea and United next season.

james791 · « **Reply #809 on:** April 18, 2006, 04:26:20 pm »

im still hoping that the Mancs make a monumental cock up in the next three games. If not i'll be pretty happy with 3rd. We are definatley on the right tracks for a premiership assault now.

Raul! · « **Reply #810 on:** April 18, 2006, 04:34:49 pm »

May I say that as a barometer of our performance this season and a safe haven for some sensible conversation, this thread has been excellent.

Many thanks to all the regular posters: HH (no, you are not getting those silly lines next to your name), JP-65, Anthony & Co.

StevieG26 · « **Reply #811 on:** April 18, 2006, 04:39:13 pm »

Quote from: Anthony on April 17, 2006, 03:28:11 pm

2) If you look at the top 9 clubs in the UEFA Rankings, 3 teams are Italian, 3 are Spanish & 3 are English. However, the Italian Teams are ranked 1st, 4th & 5th and the Spanish Teams are 2nd, 3rd & 9th.

http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/data/method3/trank2006.html

Totally disagree with those rankings. Inter 4th and above us? Real Madrid 3rd and above us, Juve and Arsenal? Lyon and PSV above Chelsea? As much as I hate Chelsea, 14th place for them is a joke.

Newcastle 17th and above Villarreal. Panathinaikos in the top 20 and above Monaco, Ajax and Celtic. UEFA's even more corrupt than the FA!

harrytrow · « **Reply #812 on:** April 18, 2006, 04:57:04 pm »

would be interesting to see us/chelsea in that chart

-HH- · « **Reply #813 on:** April 18, 2006, 06:45:22 pm »

Quote from: Raul. on April 18, 2006, 04:34:49 pm

May I say that as a barometer of our performance this season and a safe haven for some sensible conversation, this thread has been excellent.

Many thanks to all the regular posters: HH (no, you are not getting those silly lines next to your name), JP-65, Anthony & Co.

But JP got the - , you're just discriminating now!

RayO'Biscan · « **Reply #814 on:** April 19, 2006, 07:15:17 am »

Quote from: Raul. on April 18, 2006, 04:34:49 pm

May I say that as a barometer of our performance this season and a safe haven for some sensible conversation, this thread has been excellent.

Many thanks to all the regular posters: HH (no, you are not getting those silly lines next to your name), JP-65, Anthony & Co.

Hear, hear!

Alan_X · « **Reply #815 on:** April 19, 2006, 06:35:39 pm »

Quote from: StevieG26 on April 18, 2006, 04:39:13 pm

Totally disagree with those rankings. Inter 4th and above us? Real Madrid 3rd and above us, Juve and Arsenal? Lyon and PSV above Chelsea? As much as I hate Chelsea, 14th place for them is a joke.

Newcastle 17th and above Villarreal. Panathinaikos in the top 20 and above Monaco, Ajax and Celtic. UEFA's even more corrupt than the FA!

They are actually very fair and reflect performance in Europe over the last four years in Champions League and UEFA Cup. They also reflect the success of each country's teams overall.

The yearly scores are based on points for matches won or drawn - it doesn't get much fairer than that. Chelsea got to two semi-finals and qualified for the knock-out stage this year but they only got 5.5 points in 02/03. It's easy to move up and down the rankings in the top section of the table. We have dropped a bit this year because our 2001 success has fallen off the back end. Utd's position reflects accurately their continuing failure in Europe and Real are on a downward trend. Celtic have taken a nose dive - not even getting through the qualifiers this year so I don't know why they should be any higher?

I don't know where corruption comes into it - unless you count adding the country ranking to the individual club's ranking.

StevieG26 · « **Reply #816 on:** April 19, 2006, 06:49:59 pm »

Quote from: Alan_F on April 19, 2006, 06:35:39 pm

They are actually very fair and reflect performance in Europe over the last four years in Champions League and UEFA Cup. They also reflect the success of each country's teams overall.

The yearly scores are based on points for matches won or drawn - it doesn't get much fairer than that. Chelsea got to two semi-finals and qualified for the knock-out stage this year but they only got 5.5 points in 02/03. It's easy to move up and down the rankings in the top section of the table. We have dropped a bit this year because our 2001 success has fallen off the back end. Utd's position reflects accurately their continuing failure in Europe and Real are on a downward trend. Celtic have taken a nose dive - not even getting through the qualifiers this year so I don't know why they should be any higher?

I don't know where corruption comes into it - unless you count adding the country ranking to the individual club's ranking.

Dunno mate, I disagree with the fact that UEFA ranks Spanish teams first, then Italian teams and English teams in third place. The only time since the turn of the millennium that Italian teams had a significantly better year than English clubs was in 2002/2003 when Milan and Juve were in the final (yes, the most boring final ever.) Other than that, I don't see much of a difference. The only recent time I remember an Italian team beating an English one over two legs was Milan vs Man Utd last year. If anything, I think England should be ranked second and above Italy.

Alan_X · « **Reply #817 on:** April 19, 2006, 08:46:49 pm »

Quote from: StevieG26 on April 19, 2006, 06:49:59 pm

Dunno mate, I disagree with the fact that UEFA ranks Spanish teams first, then Italian teams and English teams in third place. The only time since the turn of the millennium that Italian teams had a significantly better year than English clubs was in 2002/2003 when Milan and Juve were in the final (yes, the most boring final ever.) Other than that, I don't see much of a difference. The only recent time I remember an Italian team beating an English one over two legs was Milan vs Man Utd last year. If anything, I think England should be ranked second and above Italy.

It's not "UEFA ranking" anyone though. The coefficient is based on matches won and drawn and the country ranking is based on matches won or drawn by teams from that country. And don't forget it's over the last five years and also not just the Champions League but the UEFA Cup as well. The table doesn't lie, look at this year, there were three Italian teams and three Spanish teams in the quarter finals and just one English team. What is interesting is that a few years ago we were ranked below Germany.

Anthony · « **Reply #818 on:** April 19, 2006, 09:10:24 pm »

Quote from: StevieG26 on April 19, 2006, 06:49:59 pm

Dunno mate, I disagree with the fact that UEFA ranks Spanish teams first, then Italian teams and English teams in third place. The only time since the turn of the millennium that Italian teams had a significantly better year than English clubs was in 2002/2003 when Milan and Juve were in the final (yes, the most boring final ever.) Other than that, I don't see much of a difference. The only recent time I remember an Italian team beating an English one over two legs was Milan vs Man Utd last year. If anything, I think England should be ranked second and above Italy.

Well, in the 4 complete years that these rankings are based on, Italy have had 1 winner and 2 losing Finalists in the Champions League while Spain have had 1 winner of the Champions League and 1 winner of the UEFA Cup. England have just had the solitary winner of the Champions League. In this season's Champions League Spain still have 3 representatives left in Europe, England 2 and Italy 1. So pretty representative I think.

I think it's actually a very fair system. It looks complicated but it's completely based upon the performance of the teams. Basically 2 points for a win & 1 for a draw with bonus points for reaching successive rounds of each competition. Each country's total is divided by the number of teams they have competing in Europe to give an average mark and that is the country's co-efficient for the year. 5 years' coefficients gives the Country Ranking you see.

You can see how this year's co-efficient is calculated at http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/data/method3/ccoef2006.html - you'll see a surprising name at the top...

33% of the Country Co-efficient is added to a Club's individual score (not including qualifying rounds) to give the Club's co-efficient/Ranking. As this is used to assign seedings this is why Everton were seeded in the 1st Round of the UEFA Cup (for all the good this did them

)

The only possible imbalance is that with the Group Stages of the UEFA Cup and the extra knockout round thereafter it's actually easier to build up co-efficient points with a good run in the UEFA Cup than it is in the Champions League. Since the 4th & 5th ranked countries actually have more representatives in the UEFA Cup than the countries above them this gives them a slight advantage and would tend to lead to them catching the top 3 (eventually depriving one of them of the coveted 4th CL place). Some would say this rotation is no bad thing though...

Anthony · « **Reply #819 on:** April 19, 2006, 10:16:45 pm »

Well, obviously I haven't got time to do this after every match but after tonight's match things are getting a bit clearer.

1 Chelsea 88 + 9 = 97 (1-2* - CL Group Stages)
2 Man Utd 79 + 9 = 88 (1*-3 - CL)
3 Liverpool 73 + 9 = 82 (2-3 CL)
4 Spurs 61 + 9 = 70 (4-7*)

5 Arsenal 57 + 12 = 69 (4-10)
6 Blackburn 54 + 9 = 63 (4-13*)

7 Bolton 49 + 12 = 61(4*-15)

(All teams below this point cannot reach a CL place)

8 Wigan 51 + 9 = 60 (5-15*)
9 Newcastle 51 + 9 = 60 (5-15*)
10 West Ham 49 + 9 = 58 (5-15)
11 Charlton 47 + 9 = 56 (6-16)
12 Middlesbrough 43 + 12 = 55 (6-16)
13 Everton 45 +9 = 54 (6-16)

(All Teams above this point cannot be relegated)

14 Man City 40 + 12 = 52 (7-18)
15 Fulham 39 + 12 = 51 (7*-18)

(All teams below this point cannot reach a UEFA Cup place)

16 Aston Villa 39 + 9 = 48 (11-18)
17 Birmingham 32 + 9 = 41 (14-19)

18 Portsmouth 32 + 9 = 41 (14-19)
19 WBA 29 + 9 = 38 (17-19)
20 Sunderland 12 + 12 = 24 (20 - Relegated)

(*=depending on Goal Difference)

At least 1 side from the West Midlands going down with Sunderland then - probably West Brom.

JP-65 · « **Reply #820 on:** April 21, 2006, 12:29:19 pm »

Upcoming matches and last season's results:

Saturday, 22 April 2006

Arsenal v Tottenham, Arsenal W Spurs L
Bolton v Charlton, Bolton W Charlton L
Everton v Birmingham, Everton D

Tuesday, 25 April 2006

Aston Villa v Man City, Man City W

Wednesday, 26 April 2006

West Ham v Liverpool, Liverpool L

JP-65 · « **Reply #821 on:** April 22, 2006, 02:44:41 pm »

Updated after today's early match:

Chelsea +0 95 (95)
Man Utd +6 77 (83)
Liverpool +21 58 (79)
Arsenal -18 83 (65)
Spurs +10 52 (62)
Bolton -1 58 (57)
Newcastle+12 44 (56)
Blackburn +13 42 (55)
Charlton +4 46 (50)
Everton -11 61 (50)
Boro -6 55 (49)
Man City -7 52 (45)

No further change after the rest of today's matches.

King Knud · « **Reply #822 on:** April 22, 2006, 03:52:07 pm »

You have to admit, regardless of their form, finishing a possible 14 points above Arsenal is a very respectable achievement.

JP-65 · « **Reply #823 on:** April 25, 2006, 09:42:47 pm »

Updated after tonight's match:

Chelsea +0 95 (95)
Man Utd +6 77 (83)
Liverpool +21 58 (79)
Arsenal -18 83 (65)
Spurs +10 52 (62)
Bolton -1 58 (57)
Newcastle+12 44 (56)
Blackburn +13 42 (55)
Charlton +4 46 (50)
Everton -11 61 (50)
Boro -6 55 (49)
Man City -7 52 (45)

ttnbd · « **Reply #824 on:** April 26, 2006, 11:19:51 pm »

another 3pts gained on last season. 24 up now.

Carra'sPoundCoin · « **Reply #825 on:** April 26, 2006, 11:27:03 pm »

Quote from: ttnbd on April 26, 2006, 11:19:51 pm

another 3pts gained on last season. 24 up now.

We can only improve on the Pompey result now

WelshMike · « **Reply #826 on:** April 26, 2006, 11:30:53 pm »

Quote from: Carra'sPoundCoin on April 26, 2006, 11:27:03 pm

We can only improve on the Pompey result now

We won 2-1 there last season, did we not? And beat Villa at home. So we'll just have to equal those results..

Carra'sPoundCoin · « **Reply #827 on:** April 26, 2006, 11:33:33 pm »

Quote from: WelshMike on April 26, 2006, 11:30:53 pm

We won 2-1 there last season, did we not? And beat Villa at home. So we'll just have to equal those results..

I couldn't remember to be honest. I just presumed it was an away game and we lost

EDIT: I was even at the game

JP-65 · « **Reply #828 on:** April 26, 2006, 11:49:39 pm »

Just got back from the match:

Updated after tonight's match:

Chelsea +0 95 (95)
Man Utd +6 77 (83)
Liverpool +24 58 (82)
Arsenal -18 83 (65)
Spurs +10 52 (62)
Bolton -1 58 (57)
Newcastle+12 44 (56)
Blackburn +13 42 (55)
Charlton +4 46 (50)
Everton -11 61 (50)
Boro -6 55 (49)
Man City -7 52 (45)

dundeered · « **Reply #829 on:** April 27, 2006, 12:39:09 am »

+24 is a hell of an improvement ,
and currently the team in form ,i use this for checking out stats
http://www.footballwebpages.co.uk/formGuide.jsp?team=11&type=2

JP-65 · « **Reply #830 on:** April 27, 2006, 04:54:29 pm »

Upcoming fixtures and last season's results:

Saturday, 29 April 2006

Charlton v Blackburn, Charlton W
Chelsea v Man Utd, Chelsea W Man Utd L
Liverpool v Aston Villa, Liverpool W
Man City v Fulham, Man City D
Middlesbrough v Everton, Boro D Everton D

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sunday, 30 April 2006

Tottenham v Bolton, Spurs L Bolton W

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Monday, 01 May 2006

Man Utd v Middlesbrough, Man Utd D Boro D
Sunderland v Arsenal, Arsenal D

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tuesday, 02 May 2006

Blackburn v Chelsea, Chelsea W

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wednesday, 03 May 2006

Bolton v Middlesbrough, Bolton D Boro D

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thursday, 04 May 2006

Man City v Arsenal, Man City L Arsenal W

kopkev · « **Reply #831 on:** April 29, 2006, 09:08:05 pm »

Quote from: JP-65 on April 26, 2006, 11:49:39 pm

Just got back from the match:

Updated after tonight's match:

Chelsea   +0 95 (95)
Man Utd   +6   77 (83)
Liverpool +24   58 (82)
Arsenal -18   83 (65)
Spurs +10   52 (62)
Bolton    -1 58 (57)
Newcastle+12   44 (56)
Blackburn +13   42 (55)
Charlton +4   46 (50)
Everton -11   61 (50)
Boro -6 55 (49)
Man City -7 52 (45)

interesting to see how much both blackburn and newcastle have improved their points tally.
a win at pompey would see us finish +24 and a pts total of 82, incredible really after last seasons 58, it would also be our highest points total since we last won the championship, think the best is 01/02 80points

JP-65 · « **Reply #832 on:** April 29, 2006, 09:19:59 pm »

Updated after today's matches:

Chelsea +0 95 (95)
Man Utd +6 77 (83)
Liverpool +24 58 (82)
Arsenal -18 83 (65)
Spurs +10 52 (62)
Blackburn +16 42 (58)
Bolton -1 58 (57)
Newcastle+12 44 (56)
Everton -9 61 (52)
Boro -7 55 (48)
Charlton +1 46 (47)
Man City -8 52 (44)

Harry_Wong · « **Reply #833 on:** April 29, 2006, 10:42:30 pm »

Quote from: kopkev on April 29, 2006, 09:08:05 pm

interesting to see how much both blackburn and newcastle have improved their points tally.

It's uncanny.

Newcastle must wish they'd sacked Souness earlier.

JP-65 · « **Reply #834 on:** April 30, 2006, 05:59:23 pm »

Updated after today's match:

Chelsea +0 95 (95)
Man Utd +6 77 (83)
Liverpool +24 58 (82)
Arsenal -18 83 (65)
Spurs +13 52 (65)
Blackburn +16 42 (58)
Newcastle+12 44 (56)
Bolton -4 58 (54)
Everton -9 61 (52)
Boro -7 55 (48)
Charlton +1 46 (47)
Man City -8 52 (44)

Looking like Arsenal are in trouble for 4th!

JP-65 · « **Reply #835 on:** May 1, 2006, 07:17:12 pm »

Updated after today's early match:

Chelsea +0 95 (95)
Man Utd +6 77 (83)
Liverpool +24 58 (82)
Arsenal -16 83 (67)
Spurs +13 52 (65)
Blackburn +16 42 (58)
Newcastle+12 44 (56)
Bolton -4 58 (54)
Everton -9 61 (52)
Boro -7 55 (48)
Charlton +1 46 (47)
Man City -8 52 (44)

No further change after the late matches

Anthony · « **Reply #836 on:** May 2, 2006, 09:54:56 pm »

Well, after tonight's match

the European Spaces are all but sorted.

Champions League
Chelsea
Man Utd
Liverpool
Spurs/Arsenal

UEFA Cup
West Ham
Spurs/Arsenal
Blackburn

Also worth noting that Chelsea cannot now match their points total from last year (maximum of 94 compared with 95 last year) Furthermore if they lose to Newcastle on Sunday (and rumours are some of the squad are going on a break tomorrow) then both the Mancs and ourselves will have the opportunity to cut the final gap to single figures!

Not much of a consolation but encouraging for next season...

JP-65 · « **Reply #837 on:** May 2, 2006, 10:03:02 pm »

Updated after tonight's match:

Chelsea -3 95 (92)
Man Utd +6 77 (83)
Liverpool +24 58 (82)
Arsenal -16 83 (67)
Spurs +13 52 (65)
Blackburn +19 42 (61)
Newcastle+12 44 (56)
Bolton -4 58 (54)
Everton -9 61 (52)
Boro -7 55 (48)
Charlton +1 46 (47)
Man City -8 52 (44)

Durango · « **Reply #838 on:** May 2, 2006, 10:15:43 pm »

Quote from: JP-65 on May 2, 2006, 10:03:02 pm

Updated after tonight's match:

Chelsea -3 95 (92)
Man Utd +6 77 (83)
Liverpool +24 58 (82)
Arsenal -16 83 (67)
Spurs +13 52 (65)
Blackburn +19 42 (61)
Newcastle+12 44 (56)
Bolton -4 58 (54)
Everton -9 61 (52)
Boro -7 55 (48)
Charlton +1 46 (47)
Man City -8 52 (44)

You'd have to say that if we finished 10 points behind Chelsea,compared with 37 points the previous,you'd have to say that Rafa has performed a minor miracle!!!

Anthony · « **Reply #839 on:** May 2, 2006, 11:18:33 pm »

Quote from: Durango on May 2, 2006, 10:15:43 pm

You'd have to say that if we finished 10 points behind Chelsea,compared with 37 points the previous,you'd have to say that Rafa has performed a minor miracle!!!

It is very impressive indeed and there's another one hidden.

Gérard Houllier ultimately lost his job because we finished 30 points behind Arsenal. Now a start was made last year and it is partially due to Arsenal's own collapse but our turnover of points against Arsenal this one single season promises to be 40!

The underlying message of this thread, though, is to ignore how far we are behind any other teams but to concentrate instead on the improvement we have made - at least 21 points, maybe 24. At the start of the season I made the same target as I make every season - we should expect at least 70 points and anything above 75 is a good season. Well, this has been a very good season!