Author Topic: Those chants  (Read 184236 times)

Offline Charlie Adams fried egg

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Re: Those chants
« Reply #760 on: February 15, 2023, 08:32:21 am »
^ I don’t agree with your line about until we get rid of our dickheads, we can’t demand action from other clubs.

Of course those chants were out of order, but are there equivalent chants when we visit Leicester, Wolverhampton, Nottingham, Chelsea etc?

Our club, fans and city gets abuse like no other, and any chants aimed the other way are miniscule in comparison, so of course we have a right to demand better from other clubs fans.

But, part of the process to eliminate tragedy based chants may mean we have to sacrifice a few of our own dickheads, and to be honest, I’m fine with that.

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Re: Those chants
« Reply #761 on: February 15, 2023, 08:55:34 am »
A big issue for me is, when sections of our fans (home and away) act like nobheads and lower themselves to that behaviour, it's called out straight away by the media and the club. When away fans come to Anfield, they can seemingly do whatever the fuck they want in the build up to, during, and after the game and not one person says a thing. Everton on Monday were the same as they've been for years but not a word as usual

I couldn't be more against the victim blaming that's going on by some people in this thread as well. We should be able to sing whatever song we want (within reason, and that particular song is within reason IMO) without the fear of having some vile song sung back at us. Where does it stop? Do we stop singing altogether because we might 'provoke' a fanbase into singing about the deaths of 97 football fans, do we stop scoring goals, do we stop hosting games of football? It needs to be stopped by being made a bannable offense. There are enough cameras at the ground to identify the people doing it. The club should employ better trained stewards for the away end and anyone heard doing it should be dragged out and banned and that club's away allocation halved for every fan caught. It'd soon be fucked off if that was the case

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Re: Those chants
« Reply #762 on: February 15, 2023, 09:03:07 am »
Again,they sing their shit before,after and when we're not even there.



Exactly. They sing about us at the women's games ffs.
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Re: Those chants
« Reply #763 on: February 15, 2023, 09:19:44 am »
It’s time for zero tolerance. Obviously chanting at the opposition is a large part of the atmosphere but there now has to be a line drawn, anyone chanting about tragedies, racism , homophobia etc should be identified, prosecuted and banned. Between this shit and the corruption and sportswashing in the game, what is the point of it?

Offline Son of Spion

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Re: Those chants
« Reply #764 on: February 15, 2023, 10:59:56 am »
Them chanting the sun was right, or murderers, or any other vile shite is fuck all to do with us. It's because they're complete and utter vermin. Nothing else.
This is the correct answer.

Calls for us to not sing harmless songs in their direction is all a bit like the "don't show your legs or some man might rape you and it'll be your own fault" shite that gets aimed towards females. It's basically victim blaming which absolves the perpetrator(s) of all responsibility for their appalling actions.
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Re: Those chants
« Reply #765 on: February 15, 2023, 11:27:19 am »
This is the correct answer.

Calls for us to not sing harmless songs in their direction is all a bit like the "don't show your legs or some man might rape you and it'll be your own fault" shite that gets aimed towards females. It's basically victim blaming which absolves the perpetrator(s) of all responsibility for their appalling actions.
That’s easy to say if you’re not the one being called a murderer. I suggested our fans stop singing one crappy song because we know where it leads. And that’s where it ends, talk of stopping singing altogether or the team stopping scoring is ludicrous. It’s not victim blaming, we all know who is to blame. Are you unwilling to make the tiniest of sacrifices to spare the families and survivors pain?
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Re: Those chants
« Reply #766 on: February 15, 2023, 11:31:43 am »
That’s easy to say if you’re not the one being called a murderer. I suggested our fans stop singing one crappy song because we know where it leads. And that’s where it ends, talk of stopping singing altogether or the team stopping scoring is ludicrous. It’s not victim blaming, we all know who is to blame. Are you unwilling to make the tiniest of sacrifices to spare the families and survivors pain?
I’m not sure which song it is you’re referring to, I’m guessing it is not one celebrating a tragedy tho. What happens if the other fans then just decide to sing their filth in response to a different chant from our fans instead?

Offline Red_Mist

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Re: Those chants
« Reply #767 on: February 15, 2023, 11:39:42 am »
This is the correct answer.

Calls for us to not sing harmless songs in their direction is all a bit like the "don't show your legs or some man might rape you and it'll be your own fault" shite that gets aimed towards females. It's basically victim blaming which absolves the perpetrator(s) of all responsibility for their appalling actions.
I actually don’t think there’s been any ‘victim blaming’ by the two posters who have raised the idea of something that could potentially reduce the frequency that our supporters in the stadium have to hear a certain song, thereby reducing the harm caused. I thought there was at first too, but now I get where they are coming from.

I 100% agree (and those two posters do too I believe) that we are absolutely NOT responsible for the actions of other supporters and should be allowed to sing what we like as long as we don’t cross the obvious lines. And we ALL agree that there needs to be action taken, be that by away fans having a look at themselves or better still by actual consequences and a complete culture change whereby disasters are as off limits as racial etc. chanting.

But there’s definitely some merit in the idea that’s been discussed, albeit plenty of holes in the idea too. And as I say, pretty sure the intention from them wasn’t victim blaming.

Edit: Speedy beat me to it.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2023, 11:42:14 am by Red_Mist »

Offline Red_Mist

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Re: Those chants
« Reply #768 on: February 15, 2023, 11:43:21 am »
I’m not sure which song it is you’re referring to, I’m guessing it is not one celebrating a tragedy tho. What happens if the other fans then just decide to sing their filth in response to a different chant from our fans instead?
You probably need to read back a page or two mate. We’re discussing the fergies right song.

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Re: Those chants
« Reply #769 on: February 15, 2023, 11:48:17 am »
That’s easy to say if you’re not the one being called a murderer. I suggested our fans stop singing one crappy song because we know where it leads. And that’s where it ends, talk of stopping singing altogether or the team stopping scoring is ludicrous. It’s not victim blaming, we all know who is to blame. Are you unwilling to make the tiniest of sacrifices to spare the families and survivors pain?

I'm not going to pretend to know how it makes you feel, but us singing 'Fergie's right, your fans are shite' is basically no different to any other club coming to Anfield and their fans singing 'Is this a library' or 'Where's your famous atmosphere'

Opposition fans, and Mancs moreso than others, are going to use Hillsborough regardless of whether we chant that or not. There needs to be a zero tolerance policy. If the opposition clubs won't do anything about it, then our club needs to. Eject the rats singing it, reduce allocations, ban individuals.

That being said, if there was a simple agreement that they won't chant about Hillsborough if we don't give them a light jibe about being shite, I'd be all for it. The fact of the matter is that they will still chant about Hillsborough even if we didn't tell them they're shite.
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Offline Red_Mist

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Re: Those chants
« Reply #770 on: February 15, 2023, 11:59:20 am »
The fact of the matter is that they will still chant about Hillsborough even if we didn't tell them they're shite.
Good post, and that last bit is the thing I can’t get beyond. They will do it anyway while they can get away with it, as I think WhereAngelsPlay said yesterday.

In a twisted way, maybe now it’s in focus a bit more we may need to suffer it just a bit longer for it to be highlighted and binned off for good. I’m absolutely not saying sing it to prompt it, but if it gets in the press then maybe things will move forward. It feels like it’s been ignored over the years, but it has in fact been reported occasionally. Just nothing done, which is the worry.

Offline Barneylfc∗

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Re: Those chants
« Reply #771 on: February 15, 2023, 12:07:44 pm »
Good post, and that last bit is the thing I can’t get beyond. They will do it anyway while they can get away with it, as I think WhereAngelsPlay said yesterday.

In a twisted way, maybe now it’s in focus a bit more we may need to suffer it just a bit longer for it to be highlighted and binned off for good. I’m absolutely not saying sing it to prompt it, but if it gets in the press then maybe things will move forward. It feels like it’s been ignored over the years, but it has in fact been reported occasionally. Just nothing done, which is the worry.

Multiple journalists highlighted Leeds chanting about Munich last week. Let's see if they do the same on 5th March when United come to Anfield.
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Re: Those chants
« Reply #772 on: February 15, 2023, 12:11:39 pm »
New people have joined the discussion, so I’ll reiterate my point. Every single rendition of that song causes pain to families and survivors, so if we can reduce its frequency by dropping a song that’s totally insignificant in our repertoire, why not drop it?
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Offline Red_Mist

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Re: Those chants
« Reply #773 on: February 15, 2023, 12:11:48 pm »
I do think I’ve sung fergies right for the last time (even though I don’t mind it as a song…usually means we’re well on top!) But also NOT going to tell anyone else not to, it’s just a personal decision based on what speedy and semit5 have said and thinking only about the pain the response causes. A simple A causes B equation, every single time. So I’m not going to do A.

It’s obviously not the answer to the problem though, and I don’t think it was ever put forward as such.

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Re: Those chants
« Reply #774 on: February 15, 2023, 12:33:38 pm »
You probably need to read back a page or two mate. We’re discussing the fergies right song.
I don’t see how anyone could equate the two songs.
Also, all that would happen is they would sing their filth in response to something else.

Offline Son of Spion

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Re: Those chants
« Reply #775 on: February 15, 2023, 12:36:06 pm »
I actually don’t think there’s been any ‘victim blaming’ by the two posters who have raised the idea of something that could potentially reduce the frequency that our supporters in the stadium have to hear a certain song, thereby reducing the harm caused. I thought there was at first too, but now I get where they are coming from...

I wasn't suggesting the posters in here were victim blaming at all. I fully understand their points raised too.

My point is that the concept itself of stopping doing something that's completely reasonable in the hope it also stops others doing something totally unreasonable and disgusting does actually blame the victim, albeit unintentionally.

It's an understandable thing to consider, of course, but personally I believe it's flawed.

My reasons for thinking this are that the Mancs sing it regardless of anything. Vile people do what vile people are. They sing it on holiday abroad when in groups. They sing it in games where we aren't even playing them. The fuckers probably sing it when having their annual bath. The only thing that 'provokes' them into singing their vile diatribes is the existence of Liverpool FC.

Far too many Mancs need no prompting from us or anyone else when it comes to behaving like disgusting rats. They do what they are. Every song we sing for our club gets perverted by them and their twisted little minds.

It's been said already, but 'walk on' becomes 'sign on' and a poverty porn reference. Liv-errr-pooool.. ' becomes 'Murderers' and a disaster reference. The chant in question here becomes perverted into a Hillsborough reference. Anything we sing will be perverted by them. It's who they are. It's what they do. All we have to do to 'provoke' it all is exist.

They'll sing their filth regardless of anything we do or don't do. How do I know? Just listen to them, be it against us, when they play anyone else. When they play women's football. When the fuckers are together in pubs or on holiday with their mates. It's what they do. It's who they are.
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Offline Red_Mist

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Re: Those chants
« Reply #776 on: February 15, 2023, 12:38:29 pm »
I don’t see how anyone could equate the two songs.
Nobody has or is. The opposite in fact has rightly been regularly mentioned. One is a light hearted bit of fun. The response is a disgusting, vile, intentionally harmful thing from the gutter.

Offline Black Bull Nova

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Re: Those chants
« Reply #777 on: February 15, 2023, 12:42:36 pm »
Been watching this thread since the League Cup game against City pre Christmas. 

That night there were songs sung by sections of our fans that I have NEVER heard at Anfield and I'm a Kop ST holder of over 35+ years.  There was at least 3 different versions of songs about Harold Shipman and him killing Mancs/Manc families.  Sadly it seemed the majority of fans around me knew them too and were more than happy joining in.  The fact so many knew them suggests they've been aired many times before.  It wasn't an isolated dickhead disgracing himself.

Yes, City fans sang the sickening Victims/Murderers chants, but there is no excuse retaliating like that.  Add to that the glasses and smoke grenade being thrown from the upper tiers.  It was disgusting behavior all round and a real low point following the club over all those years.

Before anyone says "why didn't you report them", there were simply too many singing it.  It was the first domestic away game I've had a ticket for in years, I was on Level 3, Block 318.  If that's how sections of our away support behave, it's little wonder we get things sung about us both at Anfield and on our travels.

Until the rats singing shit like that are weeded out of our fanbase, we have no position to demand better from any other club.


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Re: Those chants
« Reply #778 on: February 15, 2023, 12:47:05 pm »

Yes, it only takes 1 dickhead to start a war*, hundreds and thousands will join in.






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To be fair to Princip, a bloke called Archie Duke had just eaten an ostrich cos he was hungry
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Offline Red_Mist

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Re: Those chants
« Reply #779 on: February 15, 2023, 12:54:20 pm »
This is the correct answer.

Calls for us to not sing harmless songs in their direction is all a bit like the "don't show your legs or some man might rape you and it'll be your own fault" shite that gets aimed towards females. It's basically victim blaming which absolves the perpetrator(s) of all responsibility for their appalling actions.
SoS, here you’ve compared something that is thankfully very rare with something that happens EVERY single time without fail. I think that’s the point. Anyway, I’ve worked it through in my mind and made my own personal decision. Others may have too, so it was a definitely a point worth making originally by the two posters who raised it.

Offline Speedy Molby

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Re: Those chants
« Reply #780 on: February 15, 2023, 01:07:25 pm »
SoS, here you’ve compared something that is thankfully very rare with something that happens EVERY single time without fail. I think that’s the point. Anyway, I’ve worked it through in my mind and made my own personal decision. Others may have too, so it was a definitely a point worth making originally by the two posters who raised it.
Thanks for that. It’s an interesting (and respectful) discussion.
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Re: Those chants
« Reply #781 on: February 15, 2023, 01:19:12 pm »
SoS, here you’ve compared something that is thankfully very rare with something that happens EVERY single time without fail. I think that’s the point. Anyway, I’ve worked it through in my mind and made my own personal decision. Others may have too, so it was a definitely a point worth making originally by the two posters who raised it.
Of course, the two scenarios are at different ends of the scale, but on the same scale nonetheless. Basically what I'm saying is the responsibility should always be on the perpetrator and not the victim. In this case the fault, and the responsibility, lies with the Mancs, not us.

I think the posters here made reasonable points. As always, individuals have to work out where their own red lines are drawn. To be honest, I can't recall singing the Fergie' right song myself, but if I did and I believed refraining from doing so would see the Mancs not singing what they sing, then I'd knock it off.  As I said though, I believe they'll sing it anyway. They have done for years. It's a Manc staple now.
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Offline Red_Mist

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Re: Those chants
« Reply #782 on: February 15, 2023, 01:19:14 pm »
Thanks for that. It’s an interesting (and respectful) discussion.
No worries mate. End of the day, we all want the same thing don’t we. To be able to go the game without worrying about being subjected to ‘those chants’, like the rest of the country can doing any other activity.

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Re: Those chants
« Reply #783 on: February 15, 2023, 01:32:56 pm »
That’s easy to say if you’re not the one being called a murderer. I suggested our fans stop singing one crappy song because we know where it leads. And that’s where it ends, talk of stopping singing altogether or the team stopping scoring is ludicrous. It’s not victim blaming, we all know who is to blame. Are you unwilling to make the tiniest of sacrifices to spare the families and survivors pain?
I'd do anything I could do to spare anyone pain.

It's just that I've seen no evidence whatsoever that refraining from the completely harmless Ferguson song has, does or would stop the Mancs singing what they sing whether they are even playing us or not.

Those who sing it are sadists. If they know it causes pain, they'll sing it.

I definitely agree with you that this is a conversation worth having, but opinions will, of course, vary.


Edit:

On reflection, I'd say that if their response to the Fergie song is always going to be that vile chant, then it is worth knocking it off simply to reduce the frequency of it being heard. I'm sure they'll still sing it at times, but if even hearing it less frequently helps in any way at all, it's worth it.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2023, 02:13:39 pm by Son of Spion »
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Re: Those chants
« Reply #784 on: February 15, 2023, 03:47:25 pm »
I'd do anything I could do to spare anyone pain.

It's just that I've seen no evidence whatsoever that refraining from the completely harmless Ferguson song has, does or would stop the Mancs singing what they sing whether they are even playing us or not.

Those who sing it are sadists. If they know it causes pain, they'll sing it.

I definitely agree with you that this is a conversation worth having, but opinions will, of course, vary.


Edit:

On reflection, I'd say that if their response to the Fergie song is always going to be that vile chant, then it is worth knocking it off simply to reduce the frequency of it being heard. I'm sure they'll still sing it at times, but if even hearing it less frequently helps in any way at all, it's worth it.
Nice one. Reducing the frequency is what the discussion is about. We all know it won’t stop unless action is taken.
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Re: Those chants
« Reply #785 on: February 15, 2023, 04:25:28 pm »
The Newcastle Chronicle stirring things up today, no wonder comments like this appear:

"We’ve got to make SJP terrifying for him his team and his wingeing bin dipping perennial victim fans. Give them something to moan about. ⚽️⚽️👊👊"

How anybody who's team is owned by the guy who ordered the kidnap, torture and murder of an innocent journalist can write this is beyond me. The bile supporters feel they have a right to vent is so disheartening and makes the task of challenging it all the more important.

Offline Charlie Adams fried egg

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Re: Those chants
« Reply #786 on: February 15, 2023, 04:33:22 pm »
The Newcastle Chronicle stirring things up today, no wonder comments like this appear:

"We’ve got to make SJP terrifying for him his team and his wingeing bin dipping perennial victim fans. Give them something to moan about. ⚽️⚽️👊👊"

How anybody who's team is owned by the guy who ordered the kidnap, torture and murder of an innocent journalist can write this is beyond me. The bile supporters feel they have a right to vent is so disheartening and makes the task of challenging it all the more important.

I don't want to read the shite some knuckle dragging shit thick geordie has written, even less so when it's a response to some clickbait shite on their equivalent of the Echo site.

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Re: Those chants
« Reply #787 on: February 15, 2023, 05:29:59 pm »
I don't want to read the shite some knuckle dragging shit thick geordie has written, even less so when it's a response to some clickbait shite on their equivalent of the Echo site.

Perhaps you don't, but it's important to recognise that this sort of belief is ingrained amongst so many people, making the challenge of defeating it harder and even more significant.

Offline 24/7

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Re: Those chants
« Reply #788 on: February 16, 2023, 03:42:38 pm »
Nice one mate keep us posted please
As requested.

I have a call tomorrow with LFC's Vice President of Fan Experience.

If anyone has a specific question/concern, drop me a PM. I'll be referring to this thread anyway for viewpoints (apologies Tim for not saying much more recently, I've been watching your and Red_Mist's posts with interest and I'll ask the club for a viewpoint on whether or not it's considered a 'concession' to stop singing Song A in order to reduce the potential propensity for Song B in reply.)

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Re: Those chants
« Reply #789 on: February 17, 2023, 01:15:07 am »
The new issue of When Saturday Comes has a piece containing the following passage: ‘the depressing increase in chants about Hillsborough. These are heard now more than they were ever in the years immediately after the disaster.’

The message is starting to get through.
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Re: Those chants
« Reply #790 on: February 17, 2023, 10:03:35 am »
Got a link to that, Tim?

Offline Speedy Molby

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Re: Those chants
« Reply #791 on: February 17, 2023, 10:52:43 am »
Afraid not Jim. WSC, like Private Eye, doesn’t put most of its content online, to preserve the print edition. The gist of the piece was that fan behaviour has got worse recently due to cocaine use and post-lockdown release, but we’re still a long way from the depths of the 70s/80s.
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Re: Those chants
« Reply #792 on: February 17, 2023, 12:14:19 pm »
Afraid not Jim. WSC, like Private Eye, doesn’t put most of its content online, to preserve the print edition. The gist of the piece was that fan behaviour has got worse recently due to cocaine use and post-lockdown release, but we’re still a long way from the depths of the 70s/80s.
Bring back e. In fact, make it compulsory for some ;)

Offline ToneLa

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Re: Those chants
« Reply #793 on: February 17, 2023, 01:47:30 pm »
The new issue of When Saturday Comes has a piece containing the following passage: ‘the depressing increase in chants about Hillsborough. These are heard now more than they were ever in the years immediately after the disaster.’

The message is starting to get through.

what page / article? I can grab it digitally (it's on Magzster) perhaps. Not today like (need a PC to do it)
« Last Edit: February 17, 2023, 01:49:32 pm by ToneLa »

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Re: Those chants
« Reply #794 on: February 17, 2023, 02:24:36 pm »
We should make a banner

"PLEASE STOP CHANTING ABOUT INNOCENT PEOPLE THAT WERE UNLAWFULLY KILLED AT A FOOTBALL GAME"

and hold it up at the front of the Kop every time visiting fans do it.

That would be pretty difficult for Tyler, Neville and Carragher to ignore as if it didn't happen.
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Re: Those chants
« Reply #795 on: February 17, 2023, 02:39:11 pm »
what page / article? I can grab it digitally (it's on Magzster) perhaps. Not today like (need a PC to do it)
It’s a spread on pages 18-19 headlined Bad company.Issue 429.
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Re: Those chants
« Reply #796 on: February 17, 2023, 04:01:27 pm »
It’s a spread on pages 18-19 headlined Bad company.Issue 429.

will see what I can do.. may not be today

but it is a great mag

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Re: Those chants
« Reply #797 on: February 17, 2023, 04:09:58 pm »
That would be pretty difficult for Tyler, Neville and Carragher to ignore as if it didn't happen.
Wouldn't count on it - I mean, Lawro managed to ignore an entire mosaic in 2007.....

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Re: Those chants
« Reply #798 on: February 17, 2023, 04:17:28 pm »
By the way, club staff definitely read this site - and they definitely know about this thread  ;)

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Re: Those chants
« Reply #799 on: February 18, 2023, 09:18:03 am »
Wouldn't count on it - I mean, Lawro managed to ignore an entire mosaic in 2007.....

That's a fair point  :D :butt
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