Topic: Those chants

[Charlie Adams fried egg]

The MP tweet specifically referenced Murderers as an unacceptable chant. Saw a video from the Anny Rd last night clearly showing it being chanted.

Over you you MP.

[12C]

The MP tweet specifically referenced Murderers as an unacceptable chant. Saw a video from the Anny Rd last night clearly showing it being chanted.

Over you you MP.

If it’s the one with the feller in a gimp suit, he should now be getting a visit from Merseyside Police. Clearly identifiable, quite clear what he is saying and his gestures.
As a comment said, as soon as Liverpool scored they come out with this stuff.

[semit5]

Hopefully things are about to change for the better if there’s finally going to be consequences for these sick chants. There’s a principle we should be allowed to sing our own non-offensive songs. Their response is not the Kop’s responsibility. It can’t be. They have to realise that being hit with a pea shooter doesn’t justify launching a nuclear weapon. Last night you’d have to ask the Kop not to sing ‘you haven’t won a trophy’ because of the sick chant they come back with. It only ends with THEM stopping. As long as we’re not crossing the line ourselves we can’t be expected to stop and think, what if they sing x, y or z. If we sang nothing all match they’d sing it anyway.

It’s not the most offensive song, but calling a fan base shite is poking an angry wasps nest, we have more than enough decent songs to sing which don’t provoke a retaliation response. It is a shit song IMO, and it just seems like a bit of a soccer AM chant, and like the poster above says, if it was a better song worth keeping I wouldn’t bother writing this.

[Fromola]

It’s not the most offensive song, but calling a fan base shite is poking an angry wasps nest, we have more than enough decent songs to sing which don’t provoke a retaliation response. It is a shit song IMO, and it just seems like a bit of a soccer AM chant, and like the poster above says, if it was a better song worth keeping I wouldn’t bother writing this.

That chant does work in that context in the sense that Ferguson specifically told them to knock that shit on the head after the Hillsborough inquest came through. It winds them up but it should be sung in retaliation to the Sun was right (or always the victims) rather than goad them into it. It's a bit rich when they complain that it's goading them, as that's knowing their own tricks best.

[Red_Mist]

It’s not the most offensive song, but calling a fan base shite is poking an angry wasps nest, we have more than enough decent songs to sing which don’t provoke a retaliation response. It is a shit song IMO, and it just seems like a bit of a soccer AM chant, and like the poster above says, if it was a better song worth keeping I wouldn’t bother writing this.

Well I won’t labour the point and, on reflection, as there’s regulars in the ground who are obviously very negatively affected by their response, then yes there probably is an argument to not ‘poke the nest’. But whether it’s a shit chant or not though I think is irrelevant. It’s never, and never would, be sung to provoke that response. It’s sung usually in joy as they are being quiet when we’re winning. They really need to be able to take being poked without resorting to that. The Kop has always been very good at self-policing, so anything out of order gets shouted down immediately. Other sets of supporters need to follow suit.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

What's all this shit about us provoking them into singing it ?

Chance would be a fine fucking thing considering the c*nts are singing it before ko and usually outside the ground.

So the provoking (both sides) shit needs knocking on the head right now. 

[DangerScouse]

What's all this shit about us provoking them into singing it ?

Chance would be a fine fucking thing considering the c*nts are singing it before ko and usually outside the ground.

So the provoking (both sides) shit needs knocking on the head right now. 

Spot on. I was up beside the c*nts when they were heading into Anfield last season. Zero provocation but all the usual vileness was spouted.

[Speedy Molby]

The point is the Fergie chant prompts, not provokes, the sun song. As it’s a shit song anyway why not knock it on the head to reduce the pain of families and survivors? I repeat I agree with Red Mist’s general principle, but this song’s not worth it.

[Red Beret]

Our mere existence is apparently provocation enough these days.

[FlashGordon]

The point is the Fergie chant prompts, not provokes, the sun song. As it’s a shit song anyway why not knock it on the head to reduce the pain of families and survivors? I repeat I agree with Red Mist’s general principle, but this song’s not worth it.

I suppose the argument is they'll find some other song that they can say goads them in to it. I don't think stopping singing that song will stop their vile chants, they'll just have to find another 'excuse' for using it.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

Again,they sing their shit before,after and when we're not even there.

[DangerScouse]

And "Liv-er-pool" prompts a response of "mur-der-ers", we'll bin that off too sure.

[Barneylfc∗]

Them chanting the sun was right, or murderers, or any other vile shite is fuck all to do with us. It's because they're complete and utter vermin. Nothing else.

[Speedy Molby]

But every single recital of it is painful for those directly involved. So if stopping the Fergie song reduces that pain, why not stop? Five renditions per match would be half as painful as ten.

[Eeyore]

Again,they sing their shit before,after and when we're not even there.

Exactly they were filmed singing their filth in their season opener away to Brighton in August. We really need to stop making excuses for their disgusting behaviour. They own their behaviour not us.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

And "Liv-er-pool" prompts a response of "mur-der-ers", we'll bin that off too sure.

Could make the argument that "Liv-er-pool" is incendiary and that we of all people should know better.

[Speedy Molby]

And "Liv-er-pool" prompts a response of "mur-der-ers", we'll bin that off too sure.

No, that’s a worthwhile chant and that’s my point. Bin off a shit song that increases the frequency of their sun song.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

No, that’s a worthwhile chant and that’s my point. Bin off a shit song that increases the frequency of their sun song.

No.

You're basically saying that we hold some responsibility for what other c*nts sing,just no & it's not like we have a catalogue of songs about other clubs.

[Speedy Molby]

I’m really not. Can I ask where you were on 15th April 1989?

[Eeyore]

No, that’s a worthwhile chant and that’s my point. Bin off a shit song that increases the frequency of their sun song.

I think we are going down the road of victim blaming though mate. They have absolutely no excuse for their behaviour.

[Speedy Molby]

I think we are going down the road of victim blaming though mate. They have absolutely no excuse for their behaviour.

For the third time, when you’re directly involved every single rendition hurts. So stopping that shit Fergie song would reduce pain for families and survivors. I understand the principle, but we don’t live in an ideal world.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

I’m really not. Can I ask where you were on 15th April 1989?

I know exactly where I was and how I first heard the news.

[Eeyore]

For the third time, when you’re directly involved every single rendition hurts. So stopping that shit Fergie song would reduce pain for families and survivors. I understand the principle, but we don’t live in an ideal world.

I am also a Hillsborough survivor and feel the hurt as well mate. We have differing opinions on how to deal with it.

For me, it has to be a zero-tolerance approach. There are no circumstances when it becomes acceptable to chant about disasters.

They sing the song for two reasons firstly because it hurts, and Secondly because they know they have been able to get away with it. Personally, I think it is the second thing that needs addressing. As a society, we have to make it completely socially unacceptable to sing and chant about disasters.

I know it is an emotive subject and deeply effects people so I will leave it there.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

I just feel that there's nothing we could sing that would not get the usual sung back,nothing.

[Speedy Molby]

I am also a Hillsborough survivor and feel the hurt as well mate. We have differing opinions on how to deal with it.

For me, it has to be a zero-tolerance approach. There are no circumstances when it becomes acceptable to chant about disasters.

They sing the song for two reasons firstly because it hurts, and Secondly because they know they have been able to get away with it. Personally, I think it is the second thing that needs addressing. As a society, we have to make it completely socially unacceptable to sing and chant about disasters.

I know it is an emotive subject and deeply effects people so I will leave it there.

I agree with all this, but why not stop singing some crap song that leads to increased pain?

[Speedy Molby]

I know exactly where I was and how I first heard the news.

I didn’t hear the news.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

I didn’t hear the news.

And I get that mate.

[Eeyore]

I agree with all this, but why not stop singing some crap song that leads to increased pain?

I think we will have to tell our players to stop scoring against United as well. That also increases the prevalence of sick chants about Hillsborough as well.

Singing a song that references Ferguson complaining about the atmosphere at a United game against Birmingham in 2008 does not give United fans an excuse to sing a sick chant about a football disaster in which 97 people died. There is no equivalence whatsoever.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

I agree with all this, but why not stop singing some crap song that leads to increased pain?

Because the song is irrelevant,they sing it when we're not there,they sing it before we sign & they sing it no matter what we sing.

[Speedy Molby]

I think we will have to tell our players to stop scoring against United as well. That also increases the prevalence of sick chants about Hillsborough as well.

Singing a song that references Ferguson complaining about the atmosphere at a United game against Birmingham in 2008 does not give United fans an excuse to sing a sick chant about a football disaster in which 97 people died. There is no equivalence whatsoever.

You seem not to have read my posts.

[Speedy Molby]

Because the song is irrelevant,they sing it when we're not there,they sing it before we sign & they sing it no matter what we sing.

Because it leads to incresed frequency of it.

[Red_Mist]

Because the song is irrelevant,they sing it when we're not there,they sing it before we sign & they sing it no matter what we sing.

SM’s point is that now they ALWAYS sing it in response. It’s a valid point to make. But I think why I disagree is that it wasn’t always the case. The first few games we sang Fergie’s right, they had no reply. It pissed them off, so that as we know they went away and invented a song to the same tune that is so bad they hoped by singing it we’d stop singing ours. I think if we stop they just do it even more as they somehow think they’ve ‘won’. The only way, I agree with Al, is to get it stopped by it being unacceptable, with consequences (which I know you also agree with SM)

[Koplass]

They're basically the equivalent of the kid in the playground who gets gently ribbed about their ugly jumper and snaps back with "well at least my mum isn't dead!" They're deeply insecure and unhappy in themselves. Imagine every time they sang 'Where's your famous atmosphere' we hit back with a Munich song. That's how absurd it is.

I get both sides of the argument here but they will adapt any of our songs to be as vicious as possible. 'Fergie's Right' becomes a Hillsborough song, 'We Won It Five Times' becomes a Heysel song, 'You'll Never Walk Alone' becomes a poverty song. It won't end because it's part of their fan culture to be hateful and obnoxious. I was watching their game against Palace earlier this season and they spent half the game singing about Eric Cantona...because he karate kicked one of their fans in 1995.

They're horrible. Something in the Mancunian psyche makes them spiteful, lacking in generosity and crippled by an inferiority complex. If we stop teasing them about their fans being shite, they might stop using that particular tune to sing about Hillsborough but they'll find some way of adapting another song. Or maybe their neighbours could lend them their song about Sean Cox instead.

Until it gets relentlessly highlighted and shamed, and their fans get ejected from stadia, then nothing will stop it. But I do get why ditching one particular song to stop the pain temporarily is tempting.

[Eeyore]

You seem not to have read my posts.

I have mate. I just disagree.

It is just false equivalence. Did wolf-whistling females become socially unacceptable because women dressed more conservatively or because we actually tackled the issue of discrimination?

Decades ago misogynists excused their appalling behaviour by blaming women for prompting their outbursts.

The Hillsborough families and survivors showed unbelievable dignity and composure through decades of challenges. Through legal challenges and a truly stoic campaign, we righted huge wrongs. Now the vast majority of people know the truth and the campaign has been vindicated completely.

However, I don't think we can use the same tactics on the tiny minority who wilfully disregard the overwhelming evidence and choose to deliberately inflict further pain. We need a zero-tolerance approach and need to call them out and stop making excuses for them.

We need to draw a line in the sand and make it crystal clear that there are no excuses for vile chants about disasters.   

[Speedy Molby]

I haven’t been to a United game since the 2016 Europa first leg. Earlier that day I’d done an interview with Channel 4 news, in Stanley Park, that was broadcast on the night of the Warrington inquest verdicts. The jury was about to go out. I went to the match and after we scored after about 20 minutes, all their fans sang was Hillsborough abuse. And they had the whole Annie Road. We won, but I went home feeling sick. I’m trying to impress on people that the frequency and the volume of this abuse is distressing, not just its existence.. And now, when I hear the Fergie song on telly, my heart sinks as I know what’s coming next.

[Eeyore]

I haven’t been to a United game since the 2016 Europa first leg. Earlier that day I’d done an interview with Channel 4 news, in Stanley Park, that was broadcast on the night of the Warrington inquest verdicts. The jury was about to go out. I went to the match and after we scored after about 20 minutes, all their fans sang was Hillsborough abuse. And they had the whole Annie Road. We won, but I went home feeling sick. I’m trying to impress on people that the frequency and the volume of this abuse is distressing, not just its existence.. And now, when I hear the Fergie song on telly, my heart sinks as I know what’s coming next.

The only way it stops is if we make it totally unacceptable.

As you say scoring against them makes it worse. So what do we do stop scoring against them. It is their problem, not ours and we shouldn't be accepting any blame whatsoever for it happening. It isn't Banter or Bantz it is pure and unadulterated hatred.

The only thing that will stop it is educating their fans to understand that is totally unacceptable. Look at the way that Klopp completely and unequivocally condemned the homophobic chanting from a section of our fanbase.

[Speedy Molby]

The only way it stops is if we make it totally unacceptable.

As you say scoring against them makes it worse. So what do we do stop scoring against them. It is their problem, not ours and we shouldn't be accepting any blame whatsoever for it happening. It isn't Banter or Bantz it is pure and unadulterated hatred.

The only thing that will stop it is educating their fans to understand that is totally unacceptable. Look at the way that Klopp completely and unequivocally condemned the homophobic chanting from a section of our fanbase.

Al, you’re mixing a general opinion, which I agree with, with a specific point that’s saying ‘we shouldn’t stop singing the Fergie song even though it leads to causing pain to the families’. It’s a shit song, just bin it.

[Charlie Adams fried egg]

^Koplass, that’s a great post. I said ages ago that their chants are playground level. About getting the last word, about twisting ours, with nothing off limits.

They’ll debase themselves without a second thought. Most people with a brain know what the sun is and what it stands for, but these pricks lead with it in one of their ditties. Imagine being so lacking in self awareness that you promote a paper that has been identified as a corrupt, law breaking peddler of lies, just to to get the feeling that you’ve got one over on them scouse bastards.

Beneath contempt. By the way, I know some decent utd fans that cringe about all of this. I’ve also met some shameless dickheads that have embarrassed themselves with their anti-scouse bigotry.

[storkfoot]

MerPol Liverpool FC
@MerPolLFC
·
6h
⚽ Just to be 100% clear. Any chants in relation to 'murderers' or 'always the victim' are football tragedy related and totally unacceptable. Behind them are people who have suffered unimaginable pain. Were possible, positive police and stewarding action will be taken.  @LFCHelp

I sit in the Kemlyn towards the Anfield Road, so I see and hear the away fans a lot. Last night at the derby, I was engaged in the game so wasn’t specifically keeping an eye on what the Evertonians were doing. I heard them singing in the first half but not in the second. I did see a few (nowhere near as many as in recent years) pushing imaginary fences. I also noted small groups of, say, three Police ( pretty certain they were Police and not stewards) going in to the areas were the fence pushers were. I didn’t see anyone being dragged out but I do get the sense that the club is taking proactive action as to what is being sung, or happening, in our away section. That is not the first recent home game where I have seen seen this happening either.

On the other side of the coin, when several of our supporters disgraced themselves at Man City, by throwing stuff into the Man City fans below, I don’t recall seeing any stewards in the away support.

[Justin Siderbox]

Been watching this thread since the League Cup game against City pre Christmas. 

That night there were songs sung by sections of our fans that I have NEVER heard at Anfield and I'm a Kop ST holder of over 35+ years.  There was at least 3 different versions of songs about Harold Shipman and him killing Mancs/Manc families.  Sadly it seemed the majority of fans around me knew them too and were more than happy joining in.  The fact so many knew them suggests they've been aired many times before.  It wasn't an isolated dickhead disgracing himself.

Yes, City fans sang the sickening Victims/Murderers chants, but there is no excuse retaliating like that.  Add to that the glasses and smoke grenade being thrown from the upper tiers.  It was disgusting behavior all round and a real low point following the club over all those years.

Before anyone says "why didn't you report them", there were simply too many singing it.  It was the first domestic away game I've had a ticket for in years, I was on Level 3, Block 318.  If that's how sections of our away support behave, it's little wonder we get things sung about us both at Anfield and on our travels.

Until the rats singing shit like that are weeded out of our fanbase, we have no position to demand better from any other club.