Topic: Atheism

[thejbs]

It was a thoughtful judgement and I was impressed that the judge listened to the school’s case and situation carefully

Absolutely. When I initially heard of the court case, only a short while ago, I assumed the courts would side with the pupil.

[Kenny's Jacket]

Muslims are at a disadvantage in that the way they prey is quite theatrical, a Christian could do it without anyone noticing

Im not sure how introducing the prayer ban will stop the peer pressure to be a more observant Muslim.
Some people (not on here) are claiming that the child knew the rules before enrolling, this seems not be the case

The head teacher in that school is a twat and I wouldn't trust her to remain impartial.

[TepidT2O]

Muslims are at a disadvantage in that the way they prey is quite theatrical, a Christian could do it without anyone noticing

Im not sure how introducing the prayer ban will stop the peer pressure to be a more observant Muslim.
Some people (not on here) are claiming that the child knew the rules before enrolling, this seems not be the case

The head teacher in that school is a twat and I wouldn't trust her to remain impartial.

the high court says it was the case that they knew didn’t it?

Ive met the head teacher. She’s brilliant at what she does, absolutely brilliant, but she does do some things that are divisive.
I thought they would lose actually, but when I read the judgment it all sounds quite sensible.

[Kenny's Jacket]

the high court says it was the case that they knew didn’t it?

Ive met the head teacher. She’s brilliant at what she does, absolutely brilliant, but she does do some things that are divisive.
I thought they would lose actually, but when I read the judgment it all sounds quite sensible.

According to what Ive read on the BBC, The ban on prayer came in response to muslims, including the child praying in the school.

In March 2023, up to 30 students began praying in the school's yard, using blazers to kneel on, the High Court heard.

Pupils are not allowed to gather in groups of more than four, including in the school yard.

The school introduced the ban in the same month due to concerns about a "culture shift" towards "segregation between religious groups and intimidation within the group of Muslim pupils", the court was told.
 


I took that to mean the ban was in response to the praying


She might well be good at what she does but that doesn't necessarily prove her a good person

[Corkboy]

Muslims are at a disadvantage in that the way they prey is quite theatrical, a Christian could do it without anyone noticing

Freudian slip?

[Kenny's Jacket]

Freudian slip?

no just a spelling mistake

or is it a Malapropism

[TepidT2O]

According to what Ive read on the BBC, The ban on prayer came in response to muslims, including the child praying in the school.

In March 2023, up to 30 students began praying in the school's yard, using blazers to kneel on, the High Court heard.

Pupils are not allowed to gather in groups of more than four, including in the school yard.

The school introduced the ban in the same month due to concerns about a "culture shift" towards "segregation between religious groups and intimidation within the group of Muslim pupils", the court was told.
 


I took that to mean the ban was in response to the praying


She might well be good at what she does but that doesn't necessarily prove her a good person

It’s also worth reading her response. She is a good person, what person would work as hard as she does for so long to get such good outcomes for her students without being so? It doesn’t mean I agree with everything she says though. People aren’t black or white, they aren’t good or bad, life is much more complex than that.

As far as I know, the number of Muslim students applying to the school increased notably. They seem to have feared that with such high numbers of students potentially wanting to pray publicly at lunch time, it may have become uncomfortable for those students who either did not want to or were not Muslim.


It’s quite an interesting issue. We allow our Muslim students to use a prayer room, but we are a faith school so it would be utter hypocrisy not to. However there is no pressure for students to do so, nor would this ever be tolerated. We do have an issue where Muslim students are choosing non halal options in the canteen though. This has caused push back from some parents where they want us to intervene. We won’t do that as it’s not our place to do so.

It is regrettable (of course) that she has received death threats. But perhaps  not surprising

[Jiminy Cricket]

It’s also worth reading her response. She is a good person, what person would work as hard as she does for so long to get such good outcomes for her students without being so? It doesn’t mean I agree with everything she says though. People aren’t black or white, they aren’t good or bad, life is much more complex than that.

I totally agree with this. And black and white thinking is the problem with much of our discourse these says.

As far as I know, the number of Muslim students applying to the school increased notably. They seem to have feared that with such high numbers of students potentially wanting to pray publicly at lunch time, it may have become uncomfortable for those students who either did not want to or were not Muslim.


It’s quite an interesting issue. We allow our Muslim students to use a prayer room, but we are a faith school so it would be utter hypocrisy not to. However there is no pressure for students to do so, nor would this ever be tolerated. We do have an issue where Muslim students are choosing non halal options in the canteen though. This has caused push back from some parents where they want us to intervene. We won’t do that as it’s not our place to do so.

It is regrettable (of course) that she has received death threats. But perhaps  not surprising

An argument for keeping faith out of all schools, I think.

[TepidT2O]

I totally agree with this. And black and white thinking is the problem with much of our discourse these says.An argument for keeping faith out of all schools, I think.

It’s certainly not our place to force them to follow the doctrines of any religion.

[Corkboy]

It is regrettable (of course) that she has received death threats. But perhaps  not surprising

Ah, the religion of peace.

[TSC]

Dawkins appears to be embarking on a UK tour

https://www.broadwayworld.com/uk-regional/article/Richard-Dawkins-Will-Embark-on-2024-UK-Tour-20240417

[Kenny's Jacket]

It’s also worth reading her response. She is a good person, what person would work as hard as she does for so long to get such good outcomes for her students without being so? It doesn’t mean I agree with everything she says though. People aren’t black or white, they aren’t good or bad, life is much more complex than that.

As far as I know, the number of Muslim students applying to the school increased notably. They seem to have feared that with such high numbers of students potentially wanting to pray publicly at lunch time, it may have become uncomfortable for those students who either did not want to or were not Muslim.


It’s quite an interesting issue. We allow our Muslim students to use a prayer room, but we are a faith school so it would be utter hypocrisy not to. However there is no pressure for students to do so, nor would this ever be tolerated. We do have an issue where Muslim students are choosing non halal options in the canteen though. This has caused push back from some parents where they want us to intervene. We won’t do that as it’s not our place to do so.

It is regrettable (of course) that she has received death threats. But perhaps  not surprising

If a child's parents are not up to date with their account, then they are given restricted food and made to eat in isolation
We are never going to agree on her.
Yes its unfortunate that she received death threats, being a national conservative shouldn't be an automatic death penalty 

Agree with you on the halal food. Fuck that.

[Yorkykopite]

An excellent judgement. Good for Muslims, good for kids, good for secularism, good for multiculturalism, good for the UK.

[Jiminy Cricket]

If a child's parents are not up to date with their account, then they are given restricted food and made to eat in isolation
We are never going to agree on her.
Yes its unfortunate that she received death threats, being a national conservative shouldn't be an automatic death penalty 

Agree with you on the halal food. Fuck that.

If accurate, that's appalling behaviour. And in my book, would make her fundamentally unsuitable for her role. (I do not think this is an example of black and white thinking (from me), though I accept that it could be portrayed this way.)

[Kenny's Jacket]

If accurate, that's appalling behaviour. And in my book, would make her fundamentally unsuitable for her role. (I do not think this is an example of black and white thinking (from me), though I accept that it could be portrayed this way.)

Unfortunately its true


https://www.theguardian.com/education/2016/jul/29/headteacher-defends-policy-of-putting-pupils-in-lunch-isolation#:~:text=Birbalsingh%20said%20criticism%20of%20the,are%20letting%20their%20children%20down.

[lobsterboy]

All schools and Education should be secular.
if you wish to indoctrinate your kids into death cults created 2 thousand years ago then do it in your own time and with your own money.
My kid was forced to take RE and could only choose 1 arts subject as an option.
Absolute nonsense.
Makes me sick.
Music, art etc are all far more valuable than sky fairies.

[Kenny's Jacket]

All schools and Education should be secular.
if you wish to indoctrinate your kids into death cults created 2 thousand years ago then do it in your own time and with your own money.
My kid was forced to take RE and could only choose 1 arts subject as an option.
Absolute nonsense.
Makes me sick.
Music, art etc are all far more valuable than sky fairies.

Was it a faith school
I dropped RE in the 3rd year

[lobsterboy]

Was it a faith school
I dropped RE in the 3rd year

Nah its a comp. He can drop it n the 3rd year but he is forced into it this year and can only take one arts option.
He loves music and art so we are all well pissed off.
No chance of a faith school with me as his old fella, I'd be struck by lightning on parents evening

[thejbs]

In northern Ireland there are few options for those who want secular education. Schools must provide RE as a subject.

[Kenny's Jacket]

In northern Ireland there are few options for those who want secular education. Schools must provide RE as a subject.

until when?

[thejbs]

until when?

They have to provide it up to gcse. Parents can remove their kids from those lessons, though.

[Corkboy]

In northern Ireland there are few options for those who want secular education. Schools must provide RE as a subject.

Me and the Muslim kid got to sit out RE classes and go to the library instead, this was a catholic school in 80s Ireland.

[thejbs]

I found it so sad to see 3 Muslim 4 year olds sitting out the Christmas nativity at my niece’s integrated school. They looked so upset. Don’t understand why the school couldn’t do something more inclusive. I naively thought integrated schools here would be secular.

[Corkboy]

I found it so sad to see 3 Muslim 4 year olds sitting out the Christmas nativity at my niece’s integrated school. They looked so upset. Don’t understand why the school couldn’t do something more inclusive.

Maybe it wasn't the school who made them sit it out.

[thejbs]

Maybe it wasn't the school who made them sit it out.

I didn’t think it was. And it’s totally fair. I’d not want a child of mine doing a nativity play either. I just think Xmas is so secular anyway these days, that they could do something less overtly religious.

[Corkboy]

I didn’t think it was. And it’s totally fair. I’d not want a child of mine doing a nativity play either. I just think Xmas is so secular anyway these days, that they could do something less overtly religious.

I am a parent and a stone cold atheist and I never gave a shit about any of that. I was quite happy for my kid to go to a religious school because it was a good school. Most primary schools in Ireland are catholic. He got his first communion and all that jazz, and we just went along with it. I don't recall ever talking about religion much to him but I certainly never lied and he's now in college and also a stone cold atheist.

[Riquende]

a stone cold atheist.

I assure you, 'Steve Austin' does exist:

[lobsterboy]

They made my kid be one of the sheep in infant school. We dressed him as Shaun the sheep to take the piss.

[Mumm-Ra]

They made my kid be one of the sheep in infant school. We dressed him as Shaun the sheep to take the piss.

In blackface?

[lobsterboy]

In blackface?

WTF?
It was an official Shaun the Sheep costume.

[Mumm-Ra]

WTF?
It was an official Shaun the Sheep costume.

was just kidding, should've added a smiley

[Bullet500]

"Saudi Arabia activist sentenced to 11 years in prison for ‘support’ of women’s rights. Manahel al-Otaibi, who promoted female empowerment on social media, was arrested under anti-terror laws" - https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/may/01/manahel-al-otaibi-saudi-arabia-womens-rights-activist-sentenced-11-years-prison-anti-terrorism-court

[KurtVerbose]

I'm an atheist and believe in a secular education, doesn't mean I'm against a form of RE though.

Religion is part of our culture and history. I have an RE O level. You don't have to believe it to learn it. It would be better if it was broadened to other faiths and also included atheism. I remember asking as a kid why they didn't include atheism and the teacher said it's because atheism is nothing, there's nothing to teach.

I think that's the problem. Christianity is taught in a vacuum, invariably by Christians, even if they're not telling you you're evil for not believing it.

[thejbs]

I got an A in GCSE RE despite being, at that time, agnostic.

I think children should be made aware of religions and their history, I’m just not sure religion warrants a separate subject at school. I had as much time during my GCSEs devoted to RE (or Catholic propaganda) as I did maths and English, which is totally ridiculous. Kids can get their religious education outside of school.

[Elmo!]

We had RMPS (Religious, Moral and Philosophical Studies) when I was at school in Scotland, think it changed fron R.E. a few years before.

[Alan_X]

Weird irony that a thread about Atheism is full of people posting about religion.

[Mumm-Ra]

I went to a catholic primary school and then high school was CofE, but we only had to do RE until third year I think. Doing it through GCSEs sounds absurd.

I'll say this though, it is useful knowledge, just to be able to understand all the references to bible stories that you come across in everyday life. Phrases and so on, like he has the patience of Job, David v Goliath, going into the lion's den, etc. I don't think my kids have ever even been in a church and don't know the first thing about any of it, like what a nun or a priest is, what communion means, anything. And I can't be arsed teaching them 

[Mumm-Ra]

Weird irony that a thread about Atheism is full of people posting about religion.

as a wise teacher once said

I remember asking as a kid why they didn't include atheism and the teacher said it's because atheism is nothing, there's nothing to teach.

he had a point

[Red_Mist]

he had a point

Could’ve just said, “that’s where your Science lessons come in.”

It’s an interesting point though. Do they include a lesson or two on ‘Humanism’ in the RE curriculum these days?

Or is that veering towards Philosophy rather than RE? (Sorry, probably already discussed in the thread).

[KurtVerbose]

as a wise teacher once said

he had a point

No, there's more to atheism than just not believing in a god. It is a different life to a religious person. You often hear religious people say atheists have no morality, but humanism is not nothing. It's a whole philosophy and has just as much validity to be taught as Christianity, especially when you consider that the UK is largely non-religious.