Author Topic: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!  (Read 170878 times)

Offline paisley1977

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Re: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!
« Reply #2840 on: March 17, 2024, 06:44:57 pm »
No corruption, Fernandes no yellow card a minute later Gomez yellow card. We are just refereed differently. Advantage given all season we have a break referee blows.
And I bet we wouldn't have got Coventry.
I've been here during the bad times,we finished second once.

Offline Yorkykopite

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Re: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!
« Reply #2841 on: March 17, 2024, 06:52:50 pm »
That was one of the clearest yellow cards you will ever see. Twice you have criticised Klopp for calling out referees. Now you are calling the players bottlers just so you can defend referees.

I realise you're hurt by the defeat. We all are. I realise you're angry with me too. You always are. But I'm not defending the referees. I've long thought they were incompetent and there was some evidence of that today. He got the Joe Gomez yellow card wrong, and he possibly could have given a second yellow for the little Portuguese fella. It was a close thing though. If one of our lads had got a yellow for that challenge I wouldn't  have been too happy. Nor would you.

As for the Reds, it was a poor performance. We should have absolutely killed them off in the second half. We all know it. But this isn't the thread to discuss that.

By the way if the ref and VAR were corrupt like you think they are it would have been an easy thing to chalk off our second goal. It would have been a diabolical decision of course. But corrupt refs don't worry about that.  Other than that and the incidents I've already mentioned I thought the ref had a reasonable match. He didn't buy Man United falling over all the time.
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Offline Eeyore

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Re: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!
« Reply #2842 on: March 17, 2024, 07:19:13 pm »
I realise you're hurt by the defeat. We all are. I realise you're angry with me too. You always are. But I'm not defending the referees. I've long thought they were incompetent and there was some evidence of that today. He got the Joe Gomez yellow card wrong, and he possibly could have given a second yellow for the little Portuguese fella. It was a close thing though. If one of our lads had got a yellow for that challenge I wouldn't  have been too happy. Nor would you.

As for the Reds, it was a poor performance. We should have absolutely killed them off in the second half. We all know it. But this isn't the thread to discuss that.

By the way if the ref and VAR were corrupt like you think they are it would have been an easy thing to chalk off our second goal. It would have been a diabolical decision of course. But corrupt refs don't worry about that.  Other than that and the incidents I've already mentioned I thought the ref had a reasonable match. He didn't buy Man United falling over all the time.

To give them a bit of credit. They did spend 3 minutes trying their best to disasalow our 2nd goal. Strangely enough they didn't even bother checking to see if Rashford was offside for their first equaliser despite it being in the same phase of play.

As for the Fernandes challenge it was a studs up challenge on a player who was in the process of shooting. It was a stonewall yellow.
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Offline rob1966

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Re: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!
« Reply #2843 on: March 17, 2024, 07:21:00 pm »
To give them a bit of credit. They did spend 3 minutes trying their best to disasalow our 2nd goal. Strangely enough they didn't even bother checking to see if Rashford was offside for their first equaliser despite it being in the same phase of play.

As for the Fernandes challenge it was a studs up challenge on a player who was in the process of shooting. It was a stonewall yellow.

If Gomez's was a yellow, then that had to be - the shithouse opened his foot up to make sure he hit Mac hard

Jurgen YNWA

Offline Draex

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Re: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!
« Reply #2844 on: March 17, 2024, 07:21:52 pm »
If Gomez's was a yellow, then that had to be - the shithouse opened his foot up to make sure he hit Mac hard

Ref bottled that for sure.

Doesn't change the result as the rat was useless.

Offline rob1966

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Re: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!
« Reply #2845 on: March 17, 2024, 07:25:44 pm »
Ref bottled that for sure.

Doesn't change the result as the rat was useless.

Nah, we got what we deserved from today, just sick of seeing shit decisions going against us.

As Al says though, they spent ages trying to disallow our second and there was nothing there for them, thats fucking dodgy as.
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Offline John C

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Re: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!
« Reply #2846 on: March 17, 2024, 07:31:01 pm »
Take todays discussion to the post match thread, there's nothing significant to see here today.

This thread might stay locked for a long time, it's become awful at the moment.

Offline Andy @ Allerton!

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Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General
« Reply #2847 on: March 23, 2024, 02:51:18 pm »
Just to reinforce the bias.

Yet another 12:30 away kick off for us after a midweek game.


I'm sure that this is also some kind of strange, but completely explainable 12:30 early kick off on a Saturday after we've been given absolutely shit loads of them all season

Again.


If you aren't thinking this is a pisstake by now then what the fuck ARE you thinking?


:D
Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

Offline Yorkykopite

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Re: Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General
« Reply #2848 on: March 23, 2024, 03:08:20 pm »
Just to reinforce the bias.

Yet another 12:30 away kick off for us after a midweek game.


I'm sure that this is also some kind of strange, but completely explainable 12:30 early kick off on a Saturday after we've been given absolutely shit loads of them all season

Again.


If you aren't thinking this is a pisstake by now then what the fuck ARE you thinking?


:D

I'm thinking that I'd like us to continue our productive run in 12.20 kick offs this season. I make it:  Played 5, Won 4, Drawn 1. The draw was disappointing, but Man City away is often a loss, so I'll take it.
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Offline WhereAngelsPlay

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Re: Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General
« Reply #2849 on: March 23, 2024, 03:12:48 pm »
I'm thinking that I'd like us to continue our productive run in 12.20 kick offs this season. I make it:  Played 5, Won 4, Drawn 1. The draw was disappointing, but Man City away is often a loss, so I'll take it.

You should write to the boss, explain to him just how wrong he is.
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Offline Redley

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Re: Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General
« Reply #2850 on: March 23, 2024, 03:33:24 pm »
I'm thinking that I'd like us to continue our productive run in 12.20 kick offs this season. I make it:  Played 5, Won 4, Drawn 1. The draw was disappointing, but Man City away is often a loss, so I'll take it.

I’m thinking it’d be nice to not keep being put at a disadvantage

Offline Yorkykopite

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Re: Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General
« Reply #2851 on: March 23, 2024, 03:39:13 pm »
You should write to the boss, explain to him just how wrong he is.

Why? Does he hope we don't continue our productive run?

I will have a word! 
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Offline FlashGordon

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Re: Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General
« Reply #2852 on: March 23, 2024, 04:44:19 pm »
It's a productive run because we're fucking brilliant, not because it's the best slot to get for your game. We're just lucky we're so good we can over come it, the problem is we shouldn't have to over come it so often. It's not that hard to follow.
So bloody what? If you watch football to be absolutely miserable then go watch cricket.

Offline Garlic Red

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Re: Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General
« Reply #2853 on: March 23, 2024, 05:10:32 pm »
Just to reinforce the bias.

Yet another 12:30 away kick off for us after a midweek game.


I'm sure that this is also some kind of strange, but completely explainable 12:30 early kick off on a Saturday after we've been given absolutely shit loads of them all season

Again.


If you aren't thinking this is a pisstake by now then what the fuck ARE you thinking?


:D

My theory is Liverpool dropping points is about the biggest thing there is on TV at the moment for these TV companies. It must be because the commentators are desperate for it to happen when we play and the sheer desperation to control the narrative throughout the games is so obvious. It’s always that we aren’t playing well and the plucky underdogs we’re facing are playing brilliantly, this leads to fans of other teams tuning in, desperate for vindication from pundits that Liverpool aren’t that good and desperate to see us drop points and revel in the inquisition afterwards. They’re also desperate to hear what Jurgen has to say knowing full well he’s livid and doesn’t like the fixture or the questions he gets asked over scheduling after every game when we drop points. This leads to tons of posts on social media and far greater levels of ‘engagement’ than pretty much anything else in the sport at the moment, which is all they’re arsed about.

For the sport’s integrity this really shouldn’t be a thing, but it is and now that it’s out there that it is they can do it even more blatantly, essentially pouring fuel on the flames and flicking their digits up at our fan base in the process. That it’s always away games and never home games makes this ploy far too obvious for me, if they just wanted people to tune in to watch us they’d pick any game, that they always want us away tells me they want us dropping points, with all the post match inquisition (Walton regarding VAR, Des Kelly interviewing Jurgen, Rio Ferdinand in the studio) geared towards antagonising our fan base.

Offline Charlie Adams fried egg

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Re: Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General
« Reply #2854 on: March 23, 2024, 05:15:00 pm »
^ No red should be paying a penny to these fucking shitehawks.

Offline Yorkykopite

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Re: Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General
« Reply #2855 on: March 23, 2024, 05:18:29 pm »
My theory is Liverpool dropping points is about the biggest thing there is on TV at the moment for these TV companies.

There is also a respectable counter-argument that absolutely nothing would generate revenue for the TV companies more than Liverpool - the internationally loved Liverpool - winning the Premier League.

Man City winning it is a switch-off. And Arsenal, comparatively speaking, are pygmies.
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Offline redtel

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Re: Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General
« Reply #2856 on: March 23, 2024, 05:38:08 pm »
There is a rider attached to this away match at West Ham on Sat 27th April at 12.30pm

If Arsenal beat B Munich they will be due to play ManC/Real Madrid on Tuesday 30th at 8pm. So they will play on the Saturday at 12.30pm in our match slot and we will play on Sun 28th 2pm at West Ham.

As we are playing at Goodison on Wednesday 24th April we would have an extra days recovery if we do play on the Sunday. Better become an Arsenal fan for their quarter final? This possible fixture change is reported on the Arsenal website. They also play a rearranged away match at Chelsea on Tuesday April 23rd.

We are definitely believers and we’ve won the fucking lot!

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Re: Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General
« Reply #2857 on: March 23, 2024, 05:54:24 pm »
Not jumping for joy about another early away kick off but does it give less chance of there being a good old cockernee knees up type of atmosphere. Sometimes those flat early kick off atmospheres can play into the away team’s hands.

Offline GreatEx

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Re: Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General
« Reply #2858 on: March 23, 2024, 08:31:23 pm »
There is also a respectable counter-argument that absolutely nothing would generate revenue for the TV companies more than Liverpool - the internationally loved Liverpool - winning the Premier League.

Man City winning it is a switch-off. And Arsenal, comparatively speaking, are pygmies.

If only there was the slightest evidence that anyone was doing anything to support your "respectable" counter argument, as opposed to the mountains of evidence that Scouse Agony is their best-seller.

Offline Garlic Red

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Re: Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General
« Reply #2859 on: March 23, 2024, 10:03:10 pm »
There is also a respectable counter-argument that absolutely nothing would generate revenue for the TV companies more than Liverpool - the internationally loved Liverpool - winning the Premier League.

Man City winning it is a switch-off. And Arsenal, comparatively speaking, are pygmies.

I don’t think the TV companies are bothered about who wins the league. Yes they can celebrate Liverpool and United title wins more with ex players and larger fan bases, but on a week to week basis there’s simply no way Liverpool winning every game drives better engagement for them than Liverpool dropping points. If we win, most neutrals switch off and get on with their weekend. If we lose, everyone’s waiting to hear from Klopp and what he’s going to say next. On the flip side, we are entertaining and our games are rarely drab affairs, the late goals and high risk football we take is much more entertaining than watching City crush a side or United drag their knuckles through a game.

Offline Eeyore

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Re: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!
« Reply #2860 on: March 24, 2024, 12:51:18 pm »
There is also a respectable counter-argument that absolutely nothing would generate revenue for the TV companies more than Liverpool - the internationally loved Liverpool - winning the Premier League.

Man City winning it is a switch-off. And Arsenal, comparatively speaking, are pygmies.

It doesn't work like that Yorky.

The TV games are split up into 7 packages. The 12-30pm slot doesn't have any first picks over a weekend's TV games. The 12-30pm slot has 20 second picks and 12 fifth picks. We can only appear in the 12-30pm slot if the broadcasters have ignored us and picked a different game as first pick.
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Offline Yorkykopite

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Re: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!
« Reply #2861 on: March 24, 2024, 01:02:07 pm »
It doesn't work like that Yorky.

The TV games are split up into 7 packages. The 12-30pm slot doesn't have any first picks over a weekend's TV games. The 12-30pm slot has 20 second picks and 12 fifth picks. We can only appear in the 12-30pm slot if the broadcasters have ignored us and picked a different game as first pick.

I'm not sure that's relevant to the point I was answering (about broadcasters wanting to see Liverpool lose).

But mildly interesting still. I wonder why Man City v Liverpool wasn't picked up earlier in the season. There must have been bigger games to choose from that weekend I guess.
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Offline spider-neil

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Re: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!
« Reply #2862 on: March 24, 2024, 01:08:58 pm »
Watching the Manu vs Liverpool quarter-final I think the MUTV channel would be less biased.

Offline Eeyore

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Re: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!
« Reply #2863 on: March 24, 2024, 01:14:12 pm »
I'm not sure that's relevant to the point I was answering (about broadcasters wanting to see Liverpool lose).

But mildly interesting still. I wonder why Man City v Liverpool wasn't picked up earlier in the season. There must have been bigger games to choose from that weekend I guess.

Man City v Liverpool was first pick. Sky chose it for their prime time Sunday 4-30 slot but it was moved to 12-30 Saturday by Manchester Police. It is almost as if Manchester Police understand there is animosity between people from Manchester and from Liverpool. Pity the PGMOL doesn't understand that.

Manchester Police move the game. The PGMOL appoints a Manc referee.
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Offline Timbo's Goals

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Re: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!
« Reply #2864 on: March 24, 2024, 01:50:29 pm »
Just read John C's comments in the VAR thread about whether certain posts should go either in the General Sport VAR thread or this conspiracy thread.

I'm kind of thinking my own fourpennyworth on this crucial topic of our possibly being deprived of the Premier League title by the officiation absurdities we've seen this season might sit just as appropriately within here as it does in the VAR thread, since whilst it might be principally about VAR and refs for our games not simply being incompetent I most certainly don't rule out, by the very nature of what I've said, the very real possibility of questionable motives, whether perpetrated unconsciously or otherwise.   :)

I just quickly sift through RAWK these days I'm afraid so apologies for effectively now being a mere interloper but reading what I can only term the naive posts of some within this particular thread compels me to do a quick post on what, lets be honest, is or at least should be a mind numbing issue for every true Red.

Cutting right to the chase, the thing is no way on God's earth are the three major game/result/possibly season changing referee/VAR decisions that Liverpool have suffered this season been borne out of mere officialdom incompetence, albeit that such utter incompetence is so plainly manifest in virtually every Premier League game I've seen either live or on screen.

No, the clear reality is that the officials in question in the specific games which have caused such anguish to every true supporter of our amazing club simply did not want to adjudicate in Liverpool's favour for any of the incidents despite the clear and overwhelming evidence which, with 100% certainty, should have compelled them to do so and more pointedly would have compelled any fair minded officials to do so.

We can take all three of the incidents in question - the disallowed Diaz goal, the Odegaard handball in the box and  the Doku kung fu assault -  and each one is crystal clear in respect of the decision that should have been given in Liverpool's favour by the collective officials. Yet in each case the officials contrived to ignore that crystal clear evidence to ensure the decision did not favour Liverpool.

There are, of course, a myriad of other decisions both this season and in past seasons both on and off the field of play and notably in the seemingly unerring selection of, shall we term them, scarcely our favourite match officials for Liverpool games. However, to harp on about these aspects merely serves to muddy the waters of the three huge adjudications which could have - but still hopefully will not have - a crushingly disastrous impact on our Premier League season.

As to what compels the officials in question and their ex-SYP lord and master to behave and rule in the way they have done by rejecting the reality of each situation and ruling against us, there is nobody other than the protagonists themselves who know the answer to that.

It may simply be intrinsic bias - corrupt as that is in the case of what is supposed to be impartial officialdom. It may be even more sinister than that. We can all have our suspicions but none of us can actually know. Certainly at this stage of the current shitshow we are all being subjected to.

However, mere incompetence is one thing it simply cannot be, given the manner in which we all witnessed each of the decisions being arrived at and subsequently either lamely and misleadingly apologized for in the case of the Diaz disallowed goal or supported in the case of the other two incidents.

The comments of the Man United fan Mark Godbridge in his superb video condemnation of the Webb response to the Doku debacle which someone posted above and a trawl through some of the associated comments in the wake of it of other non-Liverpool fans including even some Man City fans do actually provide a modicum of solace.

That said, the awful reality is nothing can compensate for the desecration of the so crucial level playing field philosophy and with it game we are all so attached to which is now blighting us all. Winning the league will, needless to say, make the pain go away and send us into our personal and collective nirvana. When all's told, however, what it won't do, sadly, is to dispel the rot at the very heart of our game.     

Offline 1892tillforever

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Re: Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General
« Reply #2865 on: March 24, 2024, 02:22:07 pm »
There is also a respectable counter-argument that absolutely nothing would generate revenue for the TV companies more than Liverpool - the internationally loved Liverpool - winning the Premier League.

Man City winning it is a switch-off. And Arsenal, comparatively speaking, are pygmies.
They have won 5 of the last 6 titles. Have the viewing figures decreased dramatically in that time? Will them winning it again lead to a drop-off in viewing figures next year?

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Re: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!
« Reply #2866 on: March 25, 2024, 10:58:13 am »
“I’m not an “agendas” guy but that gets me thinking…”

This is an immediate response of the late Crystal Palace penalty by a Man City fan on BlueMoon two weeks ago. Rather than acknowledging the blatant fact that Foden had obviously mistimed a clearance and caught the Palace striker, the fan quickly assumed that the referee’s decision was down to an apparent dark, sinister influence that led to the dramatic intervention. In short…it’s just plain and simple corruption and it’s there for all to see. The conspiracy is in the works. The fix is in.

We all see it. Nothing could be clearer.

Apart from the fact that it really probably isn’t.

Similarly but also very differently, the Everton fans cried foul a few weeks ago following their 10-point reduction due to ongoing financial missteps over a period of time. More corruption at play. They all held up pinky-reddish cards to add weight to their cause. It was more agendas working hard to kill off a football club.

Closer to home, Luis Diaz’s wrongly disallowed goal against Spurs in September was hard to take. Galling in fact. The first defeat in months for Liverpool down to a terrible mess caused by the nonsense of VAR and the hubris of self-satisfied officials. Despite an immediate acknowledgment from the PGMOL that they’d messed up, the noise from Liverpool fans was dominated by a single word: “corruption”.

The three examples are quite dissimilar in how they came about, but the common thread that runs through them is that football fans of different colours are absolutely convinced that a hidden force is working against their club’s interests and it’s there for all to see. Nothing could be more obvious.

After Burnley away on Boxing Day, we return to the theme that the refs are against us due to two controversial disallowed goals.

Big Six©️bias, London bias, Greater Manchester bias, pro-UAE bias, Red Shite bias…take your pick. My club is persecuted and I have the receipts to prove it!

Create your narrative and your version of events will fall neatly into place. Corruption is everywhere, by all accounts, and your team is suffering as a result. As a fan, you’re the victim. By chance, you happen to support the football club that the sinister forces that control football have decided to destroy. It sucks but you have to suck it up.

Or is it that simple?

Is the immediate jump towards accusations of corruption and malfeasance the most intelligent interpretation of events? Is there a chance it’s more emotional than logical? Are fans…possibly…completely unreasonable when it comes to accepting disappointment? Injustice certainly happens on the football pitch, but is it deliberate or just plain human error?

Maybe…just maybe…fans are just completely daft. Maybe grown men will argue anything to explain away their team’s performance. Maybe grown men never really grow up and, over time, become experts at finding reasons why their team has lost. Accusations of cheating is the easiest. It’s the low hanging fruit we need. We’re not over-burdened with a requirement for lots of proof. Our indignation is enough. Our sanctimony will offer the evidence to show that our team is hard done by. We tally-up the incidents that were unfair as our proof. We can ignore the fortunate and favourably decisions that go our way as they only exist to offer a slight counter-balance to the appalling corruption at play.

Obviously this is all complete lunacy. We’ve arrived at a point where the post-match space is now completely dominated with this type of noise. Forums, twitter and well-edited compilations all serve to cultivate a false reality that genuinely convinces fans that there’s more than meets the eye.

Logically, most of this stuff is pure nonsense. Conspiracy and corruption takes place in back rooms, with cynical actors working to manipulate events in their favour. But fans don’t preoccupy themselves with the really sinister parts of football - the governance of the world game protecting corporate interests while facilitating sports washing on an industrial scale. Instead, fans become obsessed with local tribalism and become convinced that the game is controlled in such a way to help their rival and hurt their own team.

It’s simplistic rubbish and actually distracts from the genuinely worrying aspects of administration and the obvious direction of travel around player ownership and club acquisition. Obsessing over who Michael Oliver supports is genuinely small potatoes when it comes to things we should be worried about. Yet, this is food and drink for football fans across the board.

I think refereeing is in bother. I think the way the laws are administered, via VAR, have created a neurosis in the minds of referees to the extent that most of them appear lost and rudderless and scared of the repercussions. Second guessing themselves and ballsing up on a weekly basis.

Maybe we should grow up a bit. Defeat is part of sport. It’s not always about you and your team - Liverpool will win this league if they’re good enough. That’s it.

I'll be really interested to hear how you feel the rationale of the 'tin foil hat' conspiracies which you presented in your opening post to this thread now stands up against the collective abomination of the three inexplicable decisions I outline in my own post above which could well end up [we hope and pray not] costing our beloved club the league title we so clearly deserve - or most certainly do at least at this point in time.

You'll see in my own post above that I offer no explanation for the ludicrousness of the three most likely result changing and possibly season changing decisions in question beyond the certainty that in no way, shape nor form do they owe their individual and collective absurdity to mere officialdom ineptitude. Given the circumstances of both refereeing and VAR decision making pertaining to each one, ineptitude can by definition be discounted as the the reason why fair and impartial judgement was entirely absent in respect of all three. Where that leaves us is a question which may never be answered.

I have my own view. Others have theirs. I'll be really intrigued to now hear your own Fitzy as I've always respected the insight of your takes on many topics on this board over the years but have to admit that whilst refraining from comment back then, I did baulk slightly at the time at your seeming eagerness to wade in so forcibly to deride any shouts for the 'they're out to get us' mindset.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2024, 11:07:16 am by Timbo's Goals »

Offline liverbnz

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Re: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!
« Reply #2867 on: March 25, 2024, 12:55:22 pm »
They have won 5 of the last 6 titles. Have the viewing figures decreased dramatically in that time? Will them winning it again lead to a drop-off in viewing figures next year?

Sky never release viewing figures so how would you know? Their subscribers have fallen gradually over the last few years and this year is the first year the TV deal for PL rights has fallen. Make of that what you will.
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Offline 1892tillforever

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Re: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!
« Reply #2868 on: March 25, 2024, 01:44:56 pm »
Sky never release viewing figures so how would you know? Their subscribers have fallen gradually over the last few years and this year is the first year the TV deal for PL rights has fallen. Make of that what you will.
How much of that is down to more people not wanting to pay the increasingly ludicrous price and instead using streaming sites, which are getting better and more numerous by the year? Jason on here has cost them a fortune by himself  :D

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Re: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!
« Reply #2869 on: March 25, 2024, 02:00:38 pm »
How much of that is down to more people not wanting to pay the increasingly ludicrous price and instead using streaming sites, which are getting better and more numerous by the year? Jason on here has cost them a fortune by himself  :D

Surprised there isn't a contract out on jason ;)
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Offline MJD-L4

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Re: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!
« Reply #2870 on: March 25, 2024, 04:29:19 pm »
The BBC website have put up a short piece featuring the "biggest gripes of the season" as sent in by LFC fans.

 They've included 6 messages from our fans. 3 moaning about VAR & poor refereeing potentially costing us the title, one about the amount of injuries we've suffered, one about Klopp leaving & one that says Luis Diaz needs to improve his finishing.

What's the headline for this piece?

'Diaz's goalscoring has got to improve'

Because that's the story here isn't it?  ::)


Offline GreatEx

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Re: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!
« Reply #2871 on: March 25, 2024, 10:39:58 pm »
That's a bit reserved, I'd have gone with "Ungrateful Scousers turn on their own"

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Re: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!
« Reply #2872 on: March 25, 2024, 11:32:28 pm »
We should get the Hardy Boys in to investigate. It's probably smugglers conspiring with some swarthy foreign types. I'm sure the whole drop ball thing against Forest was just a dastardly plan to throw everyone off the scent as well. It's really the only logical explanation for a mistake that clear cut so late in a crucial game.

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Re: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!
« Reply #2873 on: March 26, 2024, 10:55:21 am »
We should get the Hardy Boys in to investigate. It's probably smugglers conspiring with some swarthy foreign types. I'm sure the whole drop ball thing against Forest was just a dastardly plan to throw everyone off the scent as well. It's really the only logical explanation for a mistake that clear cut so late in a crucial game.

So clear this up for me please.

Are you attempting with your apparent sarcasm to equate the seemingly mistaken refereeing decision at Nottingham to return the ball to our goalie and us scoring a goal some six and a half hours later with the three so crucial and very possibly season changing officiating abominations, one at Tottenham and two at Anfield? Or have I got that wrong? Are you simply poking fun at the suggestions that the fixture arrangements are deliberately skewed against us. 

If it's the latter then fair enough as I have no problem with your scepticism, albeit I myself clearly see the legitimacy of the views being offered. If it's the former then I'd respectfully suggest you are in dire need of a sobering lesson in perspective.   :)

Offline Eeyore

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Re: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!
« Reply #2874 on: March 26, 2024, 11:03:32 am »
The BBC website have put up a short piece featuring the "biggest gripes of the season" as sent in by LFC fans.

 They've included 6 messages from our fans. 3 moaning about VAR & poor refereeing potentially costing us the title, one about the amount of injuries we've suffered, one about Klopp leaving & one that says Luis Diaz needs to improve his finishing.

What's the headline for this piece?

'Diaz's goalscoring has got to improve'

Because that's the story here isn't it?  ::)



That is epic trolling to be fair.

Probably the biggest mistake VAR has ever made was ruling out a perfectly good Diaz goal. Good process.
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Re: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!
« Reply #2875 on: March 26, 2024, 11:47:13 am »
Brighton.

Ref: Coote.
VAR: Tierney



Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

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Re: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!
« Reply #2876 on: March 26, 2024, 11:52:28 am »
I'll be really interested to hear how you feel the rationale of the 'tin foil hat' conspiracies which you presented in your opening post to this thread now stands up against the collective abomination of the three inexplicable decisions I outline in my own post above which could well end up [we hope and pray not] costing our beloved club the league title we so clearly deserve - or most certainly do at least at this point in time.

You'll see in my own post above that I offer no explanation for the ludicrousness of the three most likely result changing and possibly season changing decisions in question beyond the certainty that in no way, shape nor form do they owe their individual and collective absurdity to mere officialdom ineptitude. Given the circumstances of both refereeing and VAR decision making pertaining to each one, ineptitude can by definition be discounted as the the reason why fair and impartial judgement was entirely absent in respect of all three. Where that leaves us is a question which may never be answered.

I have my own view. Others have theirs. I'll be really intrigued to now hear your own Fitzy as I've always respected the insight of your takes on many topics on this board over the years but have to admit that whilst refraining from comment back then, I did baulk slightly at the time at your seeming eagerness to wade in so forcibly to deride any shouts for the 'they're out to get us' mindset.
I've observed this thread become something I never thought it would. I concede that my original post is out of step with many posters' own take on how the game is run. It's quite eye-opening to be honest. Maybe I set the tone with my original post, but I am not overly enamoured by the way some posters address others who don't believe in corruption and a sense of corruption. In some way, my motivation for writing the original post was to take on the sentiment that everything is against us, as I think that this is a very one-eyed perspective that deserves challenging at times. I also get irritated by a poster using a single incident (which might be really enraging) as 'proof'. I simply don't view the world through such a lens. I also don't take a Tomkins article as proof either - I see that as evidence of individual fallibility and a failed system in place to referee games well. Many will disagree with me on that and fair play to them.

In truth, I stand by the notion that an over-wrought system led by untalented individuals is struggling massively to operate in terms competent officiating - especially given the febrile atmosphere that surrounds every match and incident. I'm not even sure that the apparent solutions - eg 'better refs' - are feasible due to the ecosystem that exists in football. Everything is turned up to 11 to the extent that any explanation or qualification for any decision is taken in bad faith from whichever fanbase is on the wrong end of things.

I do not think there's a collective endeavour to 'get' Liverpool. That would be a commercial own goal and I am certain it would be uncovered within a heartbeat - too many actors at play to keep it quiet, not to mention the club themselves being onto it. I do think that there's an emerging cultural shift across the game - including amongst fans - that sees everything through heightened scepticism and shrouded in bad faith. This scepticism is understandable due to how we are led in the west; exposed to bad faith leaders who operate through deceit and obfuscation.

Several factors have contributed to this suspicion that haven't been present throughout the majority of the game's history. Yet within a decade, these factors have created a psychosis amongst the invested parties that has never been in play before. Such factors then conflate to confect an almighty sense of grievance and injustice as the cocktail is too much to contend with. Factors:

- Social media discourse
- Fan media growth
- State ownership
- Non-stop media coverage
- Rampant clickbait
- Immediate access to unjust incidents
- Wider cultural movement in anti-establishment sentiment (for good reason)

Coalescing these contributory factors allows us to bend the world to our will in how we perceive events and how we regard authority and its motivations. We now end up in a situation where we see Forest employ a referee to set a narrative that Forest get badly treated by referees. I regard this as unhinged but understandable in the current climate.

In short, I think a  lot of the discourse in this thread has proven some of my original post as being correct. On the other hand, I do reflect that it could have been written better in how I have expressed my opposition to the prevailing sentiment of corruption.

Offline Son of Spion

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Re: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!
« Reply #2877 on: March 26, 2024, 11:53:18 am »
The light that burns twice as bright, burns half as long, and you've burned so very, very brightly, Jürgen.

Offline Eeyore

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Re: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!
« Reply #2878 on: March 26, 2024, 11:53:36 am »
Brighton.

Ref: Coote.
VAR: Tierney





Brighton will be our 29th League game of the season. Tierney will have been Ref or VAR for 9 of them. So an official with a clear issue with Klopp gets just under a third of our League games this season.

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Re: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!
« Reply #2879 on: March 26, 2024, 12:14:48 pm »
I've observed this thread become something I never thought it would. I concede that my original post is out of step with many posters' own take on how the game is run. It's quite eye-opening to be honest. Maybe I set the tone with my original post, but I am not overly enamoured by the way some posters address others who don't believe in corruption and a sense of corruption. In some way, my motivation for writing the original post was to take on the sentiment that everything is against us, as I think that this is a very one-eyed perspective that deserves challenging at times. I also get irritated by a poster using a single incident (which might be really enraging) as 'proof'. I simply don't view the world through such a lens. I also don't take a Tomkins article as proof either - I see that as evidence of individual fallibility and a failed system in place to referee games well. Many will disagree with me on that and fair play to them.

In truth, I stand by the notion that an over-wrought system led by untalented individuals is struggling massively to operate in terms competent officiating - especially given the febrile atmosphere that surrounds every match and incident. I'm not even sure that the apparent solutions - eg 'better refs' - are feasible due to the ecosystem that exists in football. Everything is turned up to 11 to the extent that any explanation or qualification for any decision is taken in bad faith from whichever fanbase is on the wrong end of things.

I do not think there's a collective endeavour to 'get' Liverpool. That would be a commercial own goal and I am certain it would be uncovered within a heartbeat - too many actors at play to keep it quiet, not to mention the club themselves being onto it. I do think that there's an emerging cultural shift across the game - including amongst fans - that sees everything through heightened scepticism and shrouded in bad faith. This scepticism is understandable due to how we are led in the west; exposed to bad faith leaders who operate through deceit and obfuscation.

Several factors have contributed to this suspicion that haven't been present throughout the majority of the game's history. Yet within a decade, these factors have created a psychosis amongst the invested parties that has never been in play before. Such factors then conflate to confect an almighty sense of grievance and injustice as the cocktail is too much to contend with. Factors:

- Social media discourse
- Fan media growth
- State ownership
- Non-stop media coverage
- Rampant clickbait
- Immediate access to unjust incidents
- Wider cultural movement in anti-establishment sentiment (for good reason)

Coalescing these contributory factors allows us to bend the world to our will in how we perceive events and how we regard authority and its motivations. We now end up in a situation where we see Forest employ a referee to set a narrative that Forest get badly treated by referees. I regard this as unhinged but understandable in the current climate.

In short, I think a  lot of the discourse in this thread has proven some of my original post as being correct. On the other hand, I do reflect that it could have been written better in how I have expressed my opposition to the prevailing sentiment of corruption.

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Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.