Author Topic: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance  (Read 224009 times)

Online Nick110581

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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #40 on: February 5, 2024, 10:00:24 pm »
That’s not right - other way round.

Burnley (H)
Brentford (A)
Luton (H)
Forest (A)
Man City (H)
Everton (A)
Brighton (H)
Sheffield Utd (A)
United (A)
Palace (H)
Fulham (A)
West Ham (A)
Tottenham (H)
Villa (A)
Wolves (H)
No, jazz. You fear jazz. You fear the lack of rules, the lack of boundaries. Oh look, it's a fence. But, no, it's soft.

Offline alonsoisared

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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #41 on: February 5, 2024, 10:01:05 pm »
I got it wrong in the OP, Sheffield United match is at home ;D

Offline andy07

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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #42 on: February 5, 2024, 10:01:35 pm »
I really hope there has been some serious head wobbling at training today.  We have it in our hands but have no chance if we approach any more games with the lazy attitude we showed yesterday.  Turn up for work with a shit attitude and things generally go wrong. Hopefully yesterday was the kick up the arse needed, and if we are going to be shit then we might as well get it all out of the way in one game.
« Last Edit: February 5, 2024, 10:04:07 pm by andy07 »
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Online Nick110581

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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #43 on: February 5, 2024, 10:01:56 pm »
I got it wrong in the OP, Sheffield United match is at home ;D

That is good news then.
No, jazz. You fear jazz. You fear the lack of rules, the lack of boundaries. Oh look, it's a fence. But, no, it's soft.

Online MonsLibpool

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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #44 on: February 5, 2024, 10:03:08 pm »
If we beat City at ours I think it's ours.
That's a massive game that makes us still have it in our hands. I will only evaluate our position after that.

Online Nick110581

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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #45 on: February 5, 2024, 10:04:20 pm »
That's a massive game that makes us still have it in our hands. I will only evaluate our position after that.

That is exactly what we need to do.

We have two winnable home matches and two hard away matches especially if we allow the crowd to get involved.
No, jazz. You fear jazz. You fear the lack of rules, the lack of boundaries. Oh look, it's a fence. But, no, it's soft.

Offline Crosby Nick

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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #46 on: February 5, 2024, 10:04:43 pm »
Well apart from those 8 the majority are at home  ;D

8 Home games left (order might not be right)
Burnley
Luton
City
Brighton
Sheff Utd
Palace
Spurs
Wolves

7 Away games left
Brentford
Forest
Everton
United
Fulham
West Ham
Villa

Offline Air Jota

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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #47 on: February 5, 2024, 10:06:44 pm »
I really hope there has been some serious head wobbling at training today.  We have it in our hands but have no chance if we approach any more games with the lazy attitude we showed yesterday.  Turn up for work with a shit attitude and things generally go wrong. Hopefully yesterday was the kick up the arse needed, and if we are going to be shit then we might as well get it all out of the way in one game.

Lazy attitude? We've lost 1 game since Spurs a game in which were robbed, we've had various injuries and set backs throughout the season, in which we have shown character work ethic and quality.

Lazy attitude wasnt the problem. We didnt play well to our standards, but attitude is hardly the reason for it.

Offline nerdster4

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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #48 on: February 5, 2024, 10:24:27 pm »
I look at all departments and it’s the midfield which concerns me most despite all the purchases and progress . Our rivals have silva/Kdb/rodri or rice/odegaard and one other and we look light in comparison . We have a solid defence and look potent upfront (mostly ) but need the following to go in our favour

3 out of Endo/Dom/Mac/Jones to always be available

Or Bradley’s emergence to push Trent into midfield and for this to pay dividend immediately

Otherwise we are starting grav, gakpo, Elliott , or unfit thiago/Baj in big big games and we’re in trouble


Offline andy07

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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #49 on: February 5, 2024, 11:42:24 pm »
Lazy attitude? We've lost 1 game since Spurs a game in which were robbed, we've had various injuries and set backs throughout the season, in which we have shown character work ethic and quality.

Lazy attitude wasnt the problem. We didnt play well to our standards, but attitude is hardly the reason for it.

Disagree.  The team started with a slow ponderous approach that continued throughout the game and undoubtably contributed to mistakes. 

You rightly highlight how the team has performed since we were robbed at Spurs, despite the impact of injuries.   We have performed exceptionally since then, noticeably as recently as Chelsea midweek.  Sadly we fell well below our recent standards.  All about the mindset and ours was totally wrong.
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Offline Air Jota

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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #50 on: February 6, 2024, 02:08:56 am »

I'm not disagreeing in regards to whether or not we made mistakes or played poorly, below our capabilities. But in my opinion, putting it down to simply
lazy attitude, is with all due respect, is way off the mark and far too simplistic.. We weren't playing a lower midtable side, against which we were expected to beat heading into the match for our players to be complacent or lack the appropriate attitude. We
were playing a side who has one of the best league records at home, second to us, and a side we've now played three times in a month or so. The previous two instances
the match was difficult throughout, and given our players attitude in general this season and what they've shown, I think it's far too simplistic and lazy to
question their attitude in the game. They aren't naive, we have plenty of experienced of players and inteligent ones at that, to take a side like Arsenal for granted.


The simple truth is, Arsenal pressed us well, and we couldn't deal with it effectively. They've done it everytime we've played them as of late, and we've struggled
in most instances. I mean we were 1-0 down against them at Anfield within 4 minutes of the game, and they had a relatively good start to that game. Surely that wasn't
an attitude issue either? They press well, they press high and we don't have the players to beat the press comfortably, what we do usually have is pace up front to bypass them, and hit them on the break. however Nunez didn't start due to his injury, and Salah wasn't available, so we lost all the pace we had up front in this match.
That made it more difficult for us to get out and stretch them, and eleveate the pressure they were putting us. Another reason we struggled is because in midfield we had
Gravenberch instead of Dom. Ryan struggled to impose himself on the game, he's young he's got a high ceiling but he has inconstiencies in his game throught out games and you can't have that in a match of this particular intensity.

When we did make the appropriate adjustment at the start of the 2nd half, we got back into the game and started to actually create them problems. However we had two of our best players make a mistake in judgmeent dealing with a ball that they usually know how to. For me thats not an attitude problem, t, they're human after all and Virgil made one of his worst mistakes in a long time, Ali didn't help the matter the way he dealt with it. That changed the game at that moment in time.
the fact that we were missing key players that could come off the bench and change the game, made it more difficult following their 2nd goal. Arsenal, are a City lite version, which isn't a surprise given Arteta's time at City, they type of pressure they put on the opposition is similar to what City have done for years. When we've dealt with City and their ability to do the same thing, it's always been by bypassing their midfield,countepressing and using our width and forwards, via direct passes to hurt them. There's a reason why we have a poor record at the Emirates in recent years. Arsenal's style mimics them, and it's no surprise that we've had difficult periods in all 3 games we've played against them .


That's not to say that we couldn't have played better, but there were far too many individual mistakes and lack of cohesion, part because we didn't deliver on the day and part due to the opposition. You can't just put it the attitude bin.

Offline Jimmy Raggatip

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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #51 on: February 6, 2024, 05:30:38 am »
Bookies wise we’ll be favorite for every single remaining game

I don't think we'll be favourites against City at home. They will be very slight favourites with the bookies imo

Offline SuperStevieNicol

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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #52 on: February 6, 2024, 09:06:36 am »
I really hope there has been some serious head wobbling at training today.  We have it in our hands but have no chance if we approach any more games with the lazy attitude we showed yesterday.  Turn up for work with a shit attitude and things generally go wrong. Hopefully yesterday was the kick up the arse needed, and if we are going to be shit then we might as well get it all out of the way in one game.
That is a massive overreaction and just not the case. It is our 2nd league defeat all season and we just didn’t play very well. It happens. It’s not an attitude issue and they definitely don’t need a kick up the arse!
JFT97

Offline MD1990

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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #53 on: February 6, 2024, 09:10:34 am »
we were missing players against Arsenal
the best forward in Salah. Bradley a breakout young player,Szobo with his energy & Robertson & trent not fully fit.Nunez not fully fit either

A complete overreaction to the result

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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #54 on: February 6, 2024, 09:39:11 am »
That is a massive overreaction and just not the case. It is our 2nd league defeat all season and we just didn’t play very well. It happens. It’s not an attitude issue and they definitely don’t need a kick up the arse!
It's our first defeat*

Online Nick110581

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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #55 on: February 6, 2024, 09:41:09 am »
Keep our heads down and win on Saturday. We will most likely be second at kick off as City play at lunchtime.

We then play Brentford away before they play again. I think this has potential to be tough.

They have 4 home matches in their next 5 though. Chelsea and United might spoil the party but unlikely!
« Last Edit: February 6, 2024, 09:45:12 am by Nick110581 »
No, jazz. You fear jazz. You fear the lack of rules, the lack of boundaries. Oh look, it's a fence. But, no, it's soft.

Offline Redley

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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #56 on: February 6, 2024, 10:30:16 am »
That is exactly what we need to do.

We have two winnable home matches and two hard away matches especially if we allow the crowd to get involved.

Feel like we need to win those four, and then that one. After that one they've got Brighton away, Arsenal and Villa at home, and Palace away. Just think it'd knock them into dropping more points and they'll have a couple of CL games in between too, and we only have one Europa game.


Online Nick110581

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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #57 on: February 6, 2024, 10:32:39 am »
Feel like we need to win those four, and then that one. After that one they've got Brighton away, Arsenal and Villa at home, and Palace away. Just think it'd knock them into dropping more points and they'll have a couple of CL games in between too, and we only have one Europa game.



No one can predict what will happen but they might fuck up before they play us.

But still think we need to win 5 in a row including them. Even then, it will only be a 2 point lead if they win their five. Maybe United or Bournemouth can get something.
No, jazz. You fear jazz. You fear the lack of rules, the lack of boundaries. Oh look, it's a fence. But, no, it's soft.

Offline Indomitable_Carp

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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #58 on: February 6, 2024, 10:58:54 am »
Maybe I'm a hopeless optimist, but I said in September I thought we'd win the League and I stick by it.

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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #59 on: February 6, 2024, 11:09:29 am »
Beat Burnley.
They have life in them, they have humour, they're arrogant, they're cocky and they're proud. And that's what I want my team to be.

Offline Gladbach73

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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #60 on: February 6, 2024, 11:17:51 am »
Let’s just do it the Liverpool way we always do, the hard way! Take each game as it comes and win it, I still think we will win the league as good as the 115 cheats are. I’d love to smash them at Anfield and break any confidence they have for the rest of the season. There are so many factors for all teams to be considered and we need a siege mentality home and away from players and support. Listening to the media they all think it’s a matter of time before City take over again, let’s prove them wrong. Up the Mighty Reds.
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Offline jboy14

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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #61 on: February 6, 2024, 11:21:19 am »
Don't worry lads. We are going to win the next 15 league games.
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Offline Dougle

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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #62 on: February 6, 2024, 11:35:10 am »
Beat Burnley.

How to kill a thread in 2 words  ;). But true ....

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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #63 on: February 6, 2024, 11:39:46 am »
We need a 21/22 level push - another season we were going on all 4 fronts. Hopefully a better outcome this time....we got 41/45 points from the following back then:

Burnley (A)
Norwich (H)
Wham (A)
Brighton (A)
Arse (A)
Watford (H)
City (A) - draw
United (H)
Ev (H)
Newcastle (A)
Spurs (H) - draw
Villa (A)
Soton (A)
Wolves (H)

not bad ay?
Our squad is not the same but we can do it im sure if the players get into the right mindset...City will drop points in atleast 2 more games I feel, maybe more. Thats our wiggle room
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Offline Realgman

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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #64 on: February 6, 2024, 11:47:53 am »
This is exactly how I saw it too. We were outplayed in this game, and when we really upped it, Arsenal were very very good in defence and counter attack. And we made a big fuck up.. 


I'm not disagreeing in regards to whether or not we made mistakes or played poorly, below our capabilities. But in my opinion, putting it down to simply
lazy attitude, is with all due respect, is way off the mark and far too simplistic.. We weren't playing a lower midtable side, against which we were expected to beat heading into the match for our players to be complacent or lack the appropriate attitude. We
were playing a side who has one of the best league records at home, second to us, and a side we've now played three times in a month or so. The previous two instances
the match was difficult throughout, and given our players attitude in general this season and what they've shown, I think it's far too simplistic and lazy to
question their attitude in the game. They aren't naive, we have plenty of experienced of players and inteligent ones at that, to take a side like Arsenal for granted.


The simple truth is, Arsenal pressed us well, and we couldn't deal with it effectively. They've done it everytime we've played them as of late, and we've struggled
in most instances. I mean we were 1-0 down against them at Anfield within 4 minutes of the game, and they had a relatively good start to that game. Surely that wasn't
an attitude issue either? They press well, they press high and we don't have the players to beat the press comfortably, what we do usually have is pace up front to bypass them, and hit them on the break. however Nunez didn't start due to his injury, and Salah wasn't available, so we lost all the pace we had up front in this match.
That made it more difficult for us to get out and stretch them, and eleveate the pressure they were putting us. Another reason we struggled is because in midfield we had
Gravenberch instead of Dom. Ryan struggled to impose himself on the game, he's young he's got a high ceiling but he has inconstiencies in his game throught out games and you can't have that in a match of this particular intensity.

When we did make the appropriate adjustment at the start of the 2nd half, we got back into the game and started to actually create them problems. However we had two of our best players make a mistake in judgmeent dealing with a ball that they usually know how to. For me thats not an attitude problem, t, they're human after all and Virgil made one of his worst mistakes in a long time, Ali didn't help the matter the way he dealt with it. That changed the game at that moment in time.
the fact that we were missing key players that could come off the bench and change the game, made it more difficult following their 2nd goal. Arsenal, are a City lite version, which isn't a surprise given Arteta's time at City, they type of pressure they put on the opposition is similar to what City have done for years. When we've dealt with City and their ability to do the same thing, it's always been by bypassing their midfield,countepressing and using our width and forwards, via direct passes to hurt them. There's a reason why we have a poor record at the Emirates in recent years. Arsenal's style mimics them, and it's no surprise that we've had difficult periods in all 3 games we've played against them .


That's not to say that we couldn't have played better, but there were far too many individual mistakes and lack of cohesion, part because we didn't deliver on the day and part due to the opposition. You can't just put it the attitude bin.
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Offline GarciaAndNunezNunezNunez

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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #65 on: February 6, 2024, 12:00:23 pm »
Watched the first half of the city game last night - they played well but still look they can be got out at times - however, embarassing dive from Ruben Dias in the penalty box which should have warranted a booking. We can expect more of this for the next few months - blatant cheating and general attempts to deceive. But as we know cheating and deception pervades that club and has worked it's way from the very top right down to the pitch. De Bruyne for all of his talents, is a real moan and yap when they are losing too - such bad sports.

I think Klopp needs to get this team to be a little bit more savvy & street smart after watching the Arsenal game because you can be rest assured the other 2 going for the title will be and 'more'. I was more concerned about that than the performance in some ways. There was certainly contact and a nudge on Van Dijk for that Martenelli goal, and he really could have used his experience to show he was impeded. Same goes to Konate for those yellow card incidents which were basically tussles and coming togethers. Need to show more experience in the big moments going forward for me
« Last Edit: February 6, 2024, 01:24:58 pm by GarciaAndNunezNunezNunez »

Offline crewlove

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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #66 on: February 6, 2024, 12:43:42 pm »
I'm not disagreeing in regards to whether or not we made mistakes or played poorly, below our capabilities. But in my opinion, putting it down to simply
lazy attitude, is with all due respect, is way off the mark and far too simplistic.. We weren't playing a lower midtable side, against which we were expected to beat heading into the match for our players to be complacent or lack the appropriate attitude. We
were playing a side who has one of the best league records at home, second to us, and a side we've now played three times in a month or so. The previous two instances
the match was difficult throughout, and given our players attitude in general this season and what they've shown, I think it's far too simplistic and lazy to
question their attitude in the game. They aren't naive, we have plenty of experienced of players and inteligent ones at that, to take a side like Arsenal for granted.


The simple truth is, Arsenal pressed us well, and we couldn't deal with it effectively. They've done it everytime we've played them as of late, and we've struggled
in most instances. I mean we were 1-0 down against them at Anfield within 4 minutes of the game, and they had a relatively good start to that game. Surely that wasn't
an attitude issue either? They press well, they press high and we don't have the players to beat the press comfortably, what we do usually have is pace up front to bypass them, and hit them on the break. however Nunez didn't start due to his injury, and Salah wasn't available, so we lost all the pace we had up front in this match.
That made it more difficult for us to get out and stretch them, and eleveate the pressure they were putting us. Another reason we struggled is because in midfield we had
Gravenberch instead of Dom. Ryan struggled to impose himself on the game, he's young he's got a high ceiling but he has inconstiencies in his game throught out games and you can't have that in a match of this particular intensity.

When we did make the appropriate adjustment at the start of the 2nd half, we got back into the game and started to actually create them problems. However we had two of our best players make a mistake in judgmeent dealing with a ball that they usually know how to. For me thats not an attitude problem, t, they're human after all and Virgil made one of his worst mistakes in a long time, Ali didn't help the matter the way he dealt with it. That changed the game at that moment in time.
the fact that we were missing key players that could come off the bench and change the game, made it more difficult following their 2nd goal. Arsenal, are a City lite version, which isn't a surprise given Arteta's time at City, they type of pressure they put on the opposition is similar to what City have done for years. When we've dealt with City and their ability to do the same thing, it's always been by bypassing their midfield,countepressing and using our width and forwards, via direct passes to hurt them. There's a reason why we have a poor record at the Emirates in recent years. Arsenal's style mimics them, and it's no surprise that we've had difficult periods in all 3 games we've played against them .


That's not to say that we couldn't have played better, but there were far too many individual mistakes and lack of cohesion, part because we didn't deliver on the day and part due to the opposition. You can't just put it the attitude bin.

Great post. I had the same thoughts. Especially having in mind that this is not the first time Arteta's Arsenal gave us problems. It happened last season. It happened this season. Anfield's game was difficult and game in FA similar kinda similar. Difference being we haven't conceded in the beginning, but were pretty close. We usually start slow against City and we began to start slow against Arsenal as well.

Injuries didn't help of course, but the trend is here. And we, football fans in general, like to look for excuses instead of simply saying we were outplayed. Tiredness is often the go-to one, didn't turn up is up there as well.

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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #67 on: February 6, 2024, 01:52:07 pm »
Sad it earlier this season: league winners this year will be determined by luck with injuries and squad strength.

All 3 clubs up there have had (or have) fatigue and injury issues. We look okay going into late Feb, but were unlucky at the weekend (Connor, Trent, Dom). If Declan Rice gets a knock at Arsenal. City? Not so much strength in certain areas if they were unlucky.

And for us, a Darwin hot streak wins us the title in my view.........and touching wood.
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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #68 on: February 6, 2024, 02:18:11 pm »
Sad it earlier this season: league winners this year will be determined by luck with injuries and squad strength.

All 3 clubs up there have had (or have) fatigue and injury issues. We look okay going into late Feb, but were unlucky at the weekend (Connor, Trent, Dom). If Declan Rice gets a knock at Arsenal. City? Not so much strength in certain areas if they were unlucky.

And for us, a Darwin hot streak wins us the title in my view.........and touching wood.
The Europa League is a big factor because we can get ''easy'' draws which will gve us more scope to rotate. City have to go hard from March onwards with a small squad.

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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #69 on: February 6, 2024, 02:43:02 pm »
Disagree.  The team started with a slow ponderous approach that continued throughout the game and undoubtably contributed to mistakes. 

You rightly highlight how the team has performed since we were robbed at Spurs, despite the impact of injuries.   We have performed exceptionally since then, noticeably as recently as Chelsea midweek.  Sadly we fell well below our recent standards.  All about the mindset and ours was totally wrong.

Why would anyone think it’s about mindset with this group?
They had massive injury problems as a group and had played a ton of football compared to their opponents … aren’t we the team with the most points from losing positions that’s outplayed several teams a man down?
The only last lazy thing about them is people defaulting to ‘attitude’ when they lose their first game in an eon

Honestly its pretty insulting stuff to suggest they had the wrong attitude to be honest

Offline Suareznumber7

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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #70 on: February 6, 2024, 02:44:22 pm »
If we beat City at ours I think it's ours.

As long as we win all the rest of our games along with it. 

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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #71 on: February 6, 2024, 02:48:44 pm »
As long as we win all the rest of our games along with it. 

Win every remaining game between now and the end of the season and I think we can do this!




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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #72 on: February 6, 2024, 04:00:14 pm »
We need to win every game from here on out. Does anyone truly have faith in the rest of the league? They seem practically defeated by the second half of the season, once City starts playing like a bunch of doped-up androids, effortlessly battering their opposition for the entirety of the game.
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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #73 on: February 6, 2024, 05:32:29 pm »
we may not need to win every game

I know everyone is shit-scared of City's form, but they will not dance with the devil again in klopp's last season. And its not just because i am convincing myself they won't win every game its because their defence looks a bit shit still and when the games start rolling in thick and fast im not sure they will do enough all the time. honestly believe this time they will slip up more than us.....and the football gods will give klopp the title he is owed for one of those 1-point near misses!

keep the faith
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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #74 on: February 6, 2024, 07:09:43 pm »
Why would anyone think it’s about mindset with this group?
They had massive injury problems as a group and had played a ton of football compared to their opponents … aren’t we the team with the most points from losing positions that’s outplayed several teams a man down?
The only last lazy thing about them is people defaulting to ‘attitude’ when they lose their first game in an eon

Honestly its pretty insulting stuff to suggest they had the wrong attitude to be honest


I think the poster is referring to the mindset in that game and they are absolutely right. You could tell from about 10 minutes in our attitude wasn't right. You would never have thought we were the same team that played Chelsea and battered them a few days earlier. Instead of being on the front foot we looked nervous and ponderous.

We seem to do this a lot against the big teams. Same thing happened at City away but we salvaged something from that game. And same thing against Arsenal at home but again we got something out of that game. We can absolutely not do this against City at home and have to get into them from the first minute of that game. They are going to turn up and do exactly what they always do which is attempt to stifle our play, stop us playing and find space through the wings.
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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #75 on: February 6, 2024, 07:17:15 pm »
I think the poster is referring to the mindset in that game and they are absolutely right. You could tell from about 10 minutes in our attitude wasn't right. You would never have thought we were the same team that played Chelsea and battered them a few days earlier. Instead of being on the front foot we looked nervous and ponderous.

We seem to do this a lot against the big teams. Same thing happened at City away but we salvaged something from that game. And same thing against Arsenal at home but again we got something out of that game. We can absolutely not do this against City at home and have to get into them from the first minute of that game. They are going to turn up and do exactly what they always do which is attempt to stifle our play, stop us playing and find space through the wings.

The reaaon its happening against Arsenal and City is because they are the only two teams that can press us that well and that intensly. Chelsea cant do that, theyre a shambles anyway, but as I said previously, us playing the way we did is down to the pressure we got put under, and not having pace as an outlet to combat it.

Ww have struggled for years at the Etihad, for the same reason. And its no coincedence that Arsenal under Arteta in the last 3 meetings against them at their ground, we are experiencing the same.

This is not an attitude issue. It doesnt matter how great of an attitude you have if you cant counter what the opposition is doing to you on the field.

We looked nervous and ponderous because we couldnt beat the press

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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #76 on: February 6, 2024, 07:18:13 pm »
I think the poster is referring to the mindset in that game and they are absolutely right. You could tell from about 10 minutes in our attitude wasn't right. You would never have thought we were the same team that played Chelsea and battered them a few days earlier. Instead of being on the front foot we looked nervous and ponderous.

We seem to do this a lot against the big teams. Same thing happened at City away but we salvaged something from that game. And same thing against Arsenal at home but again we got something out of that game. We can absolutely not do this against City at home and have to get into them from the first minute of that game. They are going to turn up and do exactly what they always do which is attempt to stifle our play, stop us playing and find space through the wings.

Don’t think that was anything to do with mindset - it was clearly what the opposition were doing (pressing us high and cutting off passing options) combined with the level of the personnel on the pitch (relative fatigue to Arsenal, players returning from injury, first choice players missing etc)

Mindset / attitude problems aren’t disprovable as they’d be in players heads but we’ve got a body of evidence of them having a great mindset and also footballing reasons why they struggled (just as other XIs have with this manager and system vs a quality high press away from home at the start of games)

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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #77 on: February 6, 2024, 07:19:18 pm »
The reaaon its happening against Arsenal and City is because they are the only two teams that can press us that well and that intensly. Chelsea cant do that, theyre a shambles anyway, but as I said previously, us playing the way we did is down to the pressure we got put under, and not having pace as an outlet to combat it.

Ww have struggled for years at the Etihad, for the same reason. And its no coincedence that Arsenal under Arteta in the last 3 meetings against them at their ground, we are experiencing the same.

This is not an attitude issue. It doesnt matter how great of an attitude you have if you cant counter what the opposition is doing to you on the field.

We looked nervous and ponderous because we couldnt beat the press

Good post - didn’t see it before I wrote something similar but totally agree

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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #78 on: February 6, 2024, 07:37:59 pm »
The reaaon its happening against Arsenal and City is because they are the only two teams that can press us that well and that intensly. Chelsea cant do that, theyre a shambles anyway, but as I said previously, us playing the way we did is down to the pressure we got put under, and not having pace as an outlet to combat it.

Ww have struggled for years at the Etihad, for the same reason. And its no coincedence that Arsenal under Arteta in the last 3 meetings against them at their ground, we are experiencing the same.

This is not an attitude issue. It doesnt matter how great of an attitude you have if you cant counter what the opposition is doing to you on the field.

We looked nervous and ponderous because we couldnt beat the press

I am not sure that is true though.

In the last 5 seasons in the League at the Etihad we have four draws and one defeat. The one defeat was last season when we basically didn't have a midfield. 

I think we look ponderous against City and Arsenal because the games are basically chess matches in which both teams are probing for weaknesses and neither side opens up.
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Re: The Title Race 2023/24- Jurgen's Last Dance
« Reply #79 on: February 6, 2024, 07:40:59 pm »
As long as we win all the rest of our games along with it.

Honestly don't fear any side bar Arsenal and City to be able to match us, especially with Thiago, Robbo fit and Nunez. Salah back soon.