Topic: The Real Ronaldo

[Xxavi]

Messi's done at the very top (personal level, not the professional game), that acceleration isn't the same. Cristiano Ronaldo's the same. Their technical quality and especially in Ronnie's case the team he plays for ensures they'll still get the numbers but this part of a player's career bores me really. The top players playing at their best from those teams are Neymar, Suarez and Bale when he's fit.
 

So Bale has been getting better since he is injured? He has been fecking gash for over a year now, frequent talks of his departure has a reason behind it. If you don't think Ronaldo isn't Madrid's best player, there are other candidates like Marcelo. Bale has been a headless chicken.

Same for Barca. In one sentence, you claim that numbers bore you, i.e. aesthetics and originality is what is important, in the next one, you say Neymar and Suarez are better than Messi. On top form, Messi single-handedly destroys top teams with his dribbling and passing. The kind of passing and dribbling that neither Suarez nor Neymar (yet) have it.

[surfer. Fuck you generator.]

So Bale has been getting better since he is injured? He has been fecking gash for over a year now, frequent talks of his departure has a reason behind it. If you don't think Ronaldo isn't Madrid's best player, there are other candidates like Marcelo. Bale has been a headless chicken.

Same for Barca. In one sentence, you claim that numbers bore you, i.e. aesthetics and originality is what is important, in the next one, you say Neymar and Suarez are better than Messi. On top form, Messi single-handedly destroys top teams with his dribbling and passing. The kind of passing and dribbling that neither Suarez nor Neymar (yet) have it.

You need to read properly chum. I said watching a player performing at less than his peak ability bores me, saddens me even, which is where Ronnie and Messi are now imo due to physical reasons. They could still be their team's difference makers and get the goals / assists, sure, but this part of a player's career holds little interest for me. It's a man husbanding what he has left to still be relevant, rather than flying effortlessly.

You said it yourself:

Maradona looks great in those videos, but you could make superb videos for Messi, too. Riding hard tackles? Messi has done it for years, too.

Messi is on a clear decline, and at times, he can push himself to be back at his best, but he cannot do it every game now. He doesn't go past players as easily as he used to, he is becoming more of a passer and finisher. He is still world's best, but watch him 4-5 years ago, he was going past players EVERY game. He was great at everything, and he did it consistently.

One last thing, those who think tackling and defending was better back in those days should just watch 4-5 games in a row from that era. Say 4-5 league matches of Napoli back to back. That may change your opinion on modern vs past football.

[child-in-time]

Tactics (and football in overall) have evolved since the 80s thats very true. Teams may operate at higher levels now than before (and defend better as a unit) but the overall quality of defenders has dropped significantly over the past decade. No one cant deny that. And the sheer ruthless, tough tackling is gone these days.

[_00_deathscar]

So Bale has been getting better since he is injured? He has been fecking gash for over a year now, frequent talks of his departure has a reason behind it. If you don't think Ronaldo isn't Madrid's best player, there are other candidates like Marcelo. Bale has been a headless chicken.

Same for Barca. In one sentence, you claim that numbers bore you, i.e. aesthetics and originality is what is important, in the next one, you say Neymar and Suarez are better than Messi. On top form, Messi single-handedly destroys top teams with his dribbling and passing. The kind of passing and dribbling that neither Suarez nor Neymar (yet) have it.

Suarez has been Barca's best player for just over a year or so now.

[_00_deathscar]

Tactics (and football in overall) have evolved since the 80s thats very true. Teams may operate at higher levels now than before (and defend better as a unit)

Not sure that's necessarily true either. Maybe not entirely a fair comparison (because I'm not comparing the "best with the best") but which team would you rather have? AC Milan in its late 80s early 90s heydey or Manchester City right now?

[child-in-time]

Not sure that's necessarily true either. Maybe not entirely a fair comparison (because I'm not comparing the "best with the best") but which team would you rather have? AC Milan in its late 80s early 90s heydey or Manchester City right now?

None of the top teams today are comparable to AC Milan of the late 80s/90s imo, simply because the Rossoneri heavily relied on their defence to grind out wins (they've had some brilliant games, far from saying they were dull) whereas you will hardly find a top team who is putting a priority on the defensive play. And what is more, in this particular case, you have some of the finest defenders ever to grace this game playing together, so I'd say AC Milan are the odd exception to a rule. The world-class defenders of today are not good enough to lace Baresi's boots, haha.

[Xxavi]

Not sure that's necessarily true either. Maybe not entirely a fair comparison (because I'm not comparing the "best with the best") but which team would you rather have? AC Milan in its late 80s early 90s heydey or Manchester City right now?

You'd go with Milan because of their legendary status, but this is based on an assumption that football has not evolved and progressed. I repeat, that Milan team wouldn't be the same Milan team if it existed now.

Also, weird that you compare them to ManCity, who are nothing remarkable even these days.

[Xxavi]

Suarez has been Barca's best player for just over a year or so now.

For me, the best player for Barca is a toss up between Suarez and Messi. This season, I agree that Suarez perhaps has been the best and most consistent player. Difficult to separate Barca's trio in terms of their consistent contribution to the team. Perhaps Neymar is lacking in consistency, so I'd say it is between Messi and Suarez.

But over a year? Hmm... I wouldn't agree with that then. Messi was superb in the second half of last season, better than Suarez.

[ElCapo]

Suarez has been Barca's best player for just over a year or so now.

A distant third more like it.

I'm probably in a minority here, but Suarez is not on the same league as Messi and Neymar.

[Chakan]

A distant third more like it.

I'm probably in a minority here, but Suarez is not on the same league as Messi and Neymar.

You're definitely in the minority.

[Sir Psycho Sexy]

A distant third more like it.

I'm probably in a minority here, but Suarez is not on the same league as Messi and Neymar.

you'll get much supporters with that argument on this forum 

but seriously, Neymar's an amazing player right now, his dribbling and chance creation is fantastic, but Suarez does that and scores more on top of it, without being their main penalty taker. Neymar's recent form has slightly declined recently anyway

[FlashGordon]

A distant third more like it.

I'm probably in a minority here, but Suarez is not on the same league as Messi and Neymar.

 

Don't care how much smoother Neymar looks on the ball etc. He's not on the same level as Suarez and Messi yet. He probably will get there over the next few years but he isn't there yet. Flatters to deceive a lot whereas Suarez is the opposite. Might not look the most graceful but is absolutely ruthless. Suarez has 30 goals and 13 assists in 31 games in the league and champions league combined. Neymar has 20 goals and 13 assists in 29 games in the league and champions league combined. That's not taking in to account Suarez's vastly better pressing game.

[Mark Walters]

 

Don't care how much smoother Neymar looks on the ball etc. He's not on the same level as Suarez and Messi yet. He probably will get there over the next few years but he isn't there yet. Flatters to deceive a lot whereas Suarez is the opposite. Might not look the most graceful but is absolutely ruthless. Suarez has 30 goals and 13 assists in 31 games in the league and champions league combined. Neymar has 20 goals and 13 assists in 29 games in the league and champions league combined. That's not taking in to account Suarez's vastly better pressing game.

you'll get much supporters with that argument on this forum 

but seriously, Neymar's an amazing player right now, his dribbling and chance creation is fantastic, but Suarez does that and scores more on top of it, without being their main penalty taker. Neymar's recent form has slightly declined recently anyway

Yes, but don't forget that Suarez plays more centrally since after Xmas last season so has more opportunities to score.  Neymar is often out wide on the left and Messi also has a tendency to come from the right onto his stronger left and is more likely to find Suarez in central positions than he's likely to find Neymar hence the greater output by the former.

[oojason]

Well worth a watch...





'The Phenomenon: Ronaldo' - a 90 minute documentary on Brazilian great...

www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m001ffsj/the-phenomenon-ronaldo


The blurb:-

'In 1997 Ronaldo Nazário was, at only 21 years old, the best footballer on the planet and destined to become one of the sporting world’s immortals. Yet only a year later, his global ambitions were crushed. First he was blamed for Brazil’s World Cup final defeat to France, back-to-back injures threatened to end his career in its prime, and a series of club transfers saw him become a controversial figure on the professional football circuit. But two new knees and one World Cup later, Ronaldo was back on top.

The Phenomenon is a story of redemption, chronicling Ronaldo’s comeback from the brink of forced retirement. Discussing the agony of his knee replacements, the crush of media scrutiny and the pressure to represent his country, this film features exclusive interviews with Ronaldo’s family, teammates and doctors. And for the first time ever on screen, Ronaldo himself looks back at his own career and, alongside Roberto Carlos, reveals what really happened in room 290 of the Château de Grande Romaine hotel on the afternoon of the 1998 World Cup final.'

[Terry de Niro]

Well worth a watch...

Will definitely get into this, cheers Jase.

[elsewhere]

Him and Messi are the best players I've ever seen. Cristiano Ronaldo etc doesn't even come close.

[Terry de Niro]

Him and Messi are the best players I've ever seen. Cristiano Ronaldo etc doesn't even come close.

Was lucky enough to see Johan Cruyff in the flesh a few times and he was miles better than the fake Ronaldo.

[Ravishing Rick Dude]

Him and Messi are the best players I've ever seen. Cristiano Ronaldo etc doesn't even come close.

Unfortunately for Cristiano, he developed and shaped himself as a player and as a character under the most toxic manager that was red nose. Ferguson contributed massively to forge him into a diving arrogant c*nt. Under different circumstances, i think he had potential to get mentioned in the same sentence with the likes of Ronaldo, Cruyff and co.

[Gaz75]

For me there is only one Ronaldo and it's not this one. Yes his career finished way too soon and he had his flaws but he is and will always be THE Ronaldo.

[Bullet500]

Even my dead grandma who barely understood football knew who this guy is.

[I've been a good boy]

I miss that era of natural finishers who had that flair about them. Ronaldo, Batistuta, Del Piero, Inzaghi, Bergkamp, Raul, and so many more.

[Barneylfc∗]

For me there is only one Ronaldo and it's not this one. Yes his career finished way too soon and he had his flaws but he is and will always be THE Ronaldo.

So, who is THE Ronaldo then?

[El Lobo]

So, who is THE Ronaldo then?

Ronaldo de Assis Moreira?

[bird_lfc]

A perfectly timed bumped thread. What a player this lad was

[The North Bank]

The other fella is cristiano, there’s only one Ronaldo

[Samie]

It's a fuckin' disgrace how dickheads refer to him now as "Fat Ronaldo". He is and will always be Ronaldo.

[oojason]

/
A few videos on the Real Ronaldo...







Wiki page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronaldo_(Brazilian_footballer)

Ronaldo official social media : https://twitter.com/ronaldo & www.instagram.com/ronaldo

Decent fan website: www.ronaldohome.com

Transfermarkt player info page: www.transfermarkt.co.uk/ronaldo/leistungsdaten/spieler/3140










'Ronaldo Fenomeno - All 62 Goals For Brazil 1994-2006':-

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/482AmTEGSwE" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/482AmTEGSwE</a>



'Ronaldo "Ó Fenómeno": All 73 Goals For Brazil - Los 73 Goles por Brasil':-

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/PYLeAQk8KVI" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/PYLeAQk8KVI</a>



'Ronaldo seleção Overall':-

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/T7aloNCHgd0" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/T7aloNCHgd0</a>



'Ronaldo | FIFA World Cup Goals':-

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/BnAOL7z0GY8" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/BnAOL7z0GY8</a>

^ or click here to watch - www.youtube.com/v/BnAOL7z0GY8















'Exactly How Good Was Ronaldo Nazario?':-

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/Lk_Kc-FcRvU" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/Lk_Kc-FcRvU</a>



'Ronaldo at Barcelona: When football broke' - 5 minute video from Tifo Football:-

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/jeRoFzkmwIQ" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/jeRoFzkmwIQ</a>



'The Greatest Injury Comeback Ever?' - 7 minute video from Tifo football:-

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/Kj8NMQ15BbY" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/Kj8NMQ15BbY</a>



'Ronaldo Fenomeno Best Goals - 1v1 vs Goal Keeper':-

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/OErHKmpA_5I" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/OErHKmpA_5I</a>



'Ronaldo Fenomeno ● A Living Legend':-

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/S84vy_Zz2O0" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/S84vy_Zz2O0</a>



'Ronaldo ►O Fenômeno ● 1994-1996 ● PSV Eindhoven':-

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/bmz9p1J2QeQ" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/bmz9p1J2QeQ</a>



'Ronaldo ● Best Talent Ever ● | PSV':-

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/ae98J4IKV7U" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/ae98J4IKV7U</a>



'Barcelona Goals | Ronaldo (1996-97)':-

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/9TC8l1kAGKQ" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/9TC8l1kAGKQ</a>



'RONALDO FENOMENO 1996 👑 Ballon d'Or Level: Dribbling Skills, Goals & Assists':-

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/JPTgN2qxAeg" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/JPTgN2qxAeg</a>



'The Complete Story of Ronaldo at Inter Milan':-

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/SyfLT1d-0xY" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/SyfLT1d-0xY</a>



'Ronaldo Skills, Assists, Goals 1997/1998 - Inter Overall':-

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/BFvbopj3Vlg" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/BFvbopj3Vlg</a>



'Ronaldo Fenomeno was UNSTOPPABLE At Inter':-

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/k9AV5GQbSQQ" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/k9AV5GQbSQQ</a>



'Ronaldo Fenomeno • All 104 Goals For Real Madrid 2002-2006':-

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/a-1bdLEjwbg" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/a-1bdLEjwbg</a>



'Ronaldo Phenomenon Amazing Skills - Show ● Real Madrid 2002 - 2007':-

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/R28DVXgQM7c" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/R28DVXgQM7c</a>



'Ronaldo Fenomeno • All Goals For AC Milan 2006-2008':-

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/nu-FzaifO-k" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/nu-FzaifO-k</a>



'When Ronaldo Phenomenon Proved His Greatness':-

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/rjdjes27v0Y" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/rjdjes27v0Y</a>



'Ronaldo ● All 35 Goals In Corinthians ● 2009 - 2011':-

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/fjdLZP5AcBI" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/fjdLZP5AcBI</a>



'40+ Amazing RONALDO FENOMENO Skills for Corinthians':-

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/ZfQ3_c8bIZU" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/ZfQ3_c8bIZU</a>





'‘Blood brothers’: Roberto Carlos on the day he saved Ronaldo’s life'

The Brazil legend on his teammate’s harrowing episode in 1998, the glory four years later – and his expectations for this World Cup

www.theguardian.com/football/2022/nov/13/blood-brothers-roberto-carlos-ronaldo-brazil-world-cup



'Ronaldo: The road to redemption with Brazil at the 2002 World Cup':-

The kneecap exploded. It was lodged above his muscular right thigh. Team-mates donned in blue and black stood hands on head in disbelief.

www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/63432094





There are a few more RAWK threads on South American football, Brazil, World Cups, other international tournaments, class international players, games and goals etc, in here:-

www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=345769.0 (the 'Some useful info for following the football + Tv, STREAMS, & Highlights etc' thread)





'Official World Cup Films' to view for free - at FIFA website (1954-2018): www.fifa.com/fifaplus/en/cat/2C5V1KsuDeXdMul8RKpstS (and click on 'See More' to view all of them)

Wikipedia page for the official World Cup Films: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_FIFA_World_Cup_official_films


1994 World Cup film: www.fifa.com/fifaplus/en/watch/movie/15882BpfSoJBLYypF9A7QX

1998 World Cup film: www.fifa.com/fifaplus/en/watch/movie/31xbhhs9Khv1pL6eloeGtw

2002 World Cup film: www.fifa.com/fifaplus/en/watch/movie/Zcx7JJXCRWaYqdExcQEva

2006 World Cup film: www.fifa.com/fifaplus/en/watch/movie/6mpR9e4CyfUFIfRVS60N5Z

[Boaty McBoatface]

Mention a player and oojason pounces with a compendium bigger than the British Library! Great work once again!

[oojason]

Mention a player and oojason pounces with a compendium bigger than the British Library! Great work once again!

Thanks mate - he is one of the few non-Liverpool players I'd do something like that for.

Plus it is maybe something for people not watching this shit World Cup in Qatar to have a look at.

Socrates was another - www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=279970.msg15732805#msg15732805 (though the whole thread is very much worth a read through)

and the '82 World Cup, of course - www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=254153.msg15527353#msg15527353

[Ray K]

Well worth a watch...





'The Phenomenon: Ronaldo' - a 90 minute documentary on Brazilian great...

www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m001ffsj/the-phenomenon-ronaldo


The blurb:-

'In 1997 Ronaldo Nazário was, at only 21 years old, the best footballer on the planet and destined to become one of the sporting world’s immortals. Yet only a year later, his global ambitions were crushed. First he was blamed for Brazil’s World Cup final defeat to France, back-to-back injures threatened to end his career in its prime, and a series of club transfers saw him become a controversial figure on the professional football circuit. But two new knees and one World Cup later, Ronaldo was back on top.

The Phenomenon is a story of redemption, chronicling Ronaldo’s comeback from the brink of forced retirement. Discussing the agony of his knee replacements, the crush of media scrutiny and the pressure to represent his country, this film features exclusive interviews with Ronaldo’s family, teammates and doctors. And for the first time ever on screen, Ronaldo himself looks back at his own career and, alongside Roberto Carlos, reveals what really happened in room 290 of the Château de Grande Romaine hotel on the afternoon of the 1998 World Cup final.'

A reminder that the documentary is on BBC Four tomorrow night at 9.30pm.

[Ravishing Rick Dude]

I miss that era of natural finishers who had that flair about them. Ronaldo, Batistuta, Del Piero, Inzaghi, Bergkamp, Raul, and so many more.

Not sure Batistuta should get mentioned in the same sentence with Bergkamp and Ronaldo. Even Raul wasn't really that special. Inzaghi, Batistuta and Raul had no flair whatsoever.

But i understand, nostalgy sometimes does that to you.

[Terry de Niro]

Not sure Batistuta should get mentioned in the same sentence with Bergkamp and Ronaldo. Even Raul wasn't really that special. Inzaghi, Batistuta and Raul had no flair whatsoever.

But i understand, nostalgy sometimes does that to you.

A totally different style to Ronaldo but still scored a shitload of goals for his clubs and Country.

[El Lobo]

Not sure Batistuta should get mentioned in the same sentence with Bergkamp and Ronaldo. Even Raul wasn't really that special. Inzaghi, Batistuta and Raul had no flair whatsoever.

But i understand, nostalgy sometimes does that to you.

 

[Lastrador]

Raul had "no flair whatsoever". Goodness me! 

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/rg5MX4I4VLs" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/rg5MX4I4VLs</a>

[Angelius]

Ronaldo was obviously incredible at Barca, but despite the constant injuries, he was SCARY at Inter too. Thanks for the memories, oojason!

What a player - one of the best ever and so, so much fun to watch!

[Ravishing Rick Dude]

A totally different style to Ronaldo but still scored a shitload of goals for his clubs and Country.

Sure he did, but he's not better than what football world currently have. The likes of Benzema, Suarez and Lewandowski are way better players.

[Ravishing Rick Dude]

Raul had "no flair whatsoever". Goodness me! 

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/rg5MX4I4VLs" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/rg5MX4I4VLs</a>

You convinced me mate. So much "flair" in that video 

[Lastrador]

You convinced me mate. So much "flair" in that video 

Imagine thinking the guy that scored some of the most outrageous chips in football history, had no flair whatsoever. Not only that but doubling down on that false premise when presented with evidence to the contrary.

[Ravishing Rick Dude]

Imagine thinking the guy that scored some of the most outrageous chips in football history, had no flair whatsoever. Not only that but doubling down on that false premise when presented with evidence to the contrary.

You don't understand the meaning of "flair" I'm afraid. "Flair" is that elegance and stylish dribling. Bergkamp, Zidane etc.

That said, there are many great players who had little or no flair. I'm not saying Raul was a bad player because he had no flair.

[Lastrador]

You don't understand the meaning of "flair" I'm afraid. "Flair" is that elegance and stylish dribling. Bergkamp, Zidane etc.

That said, there are many great players who had little or no flair. I'm not saying Raul was a bad player because he had no flair.

I would say you have a very narrow definition of what the word "flair" in football entitles. It is also about ingenuity and craftiness, which is something Raul excelled at with those chip finishes. In any case, Raul also had an exquisite touch and was an excellent dribbler and passer, which is why he still could do an excellent job playing deeper, when Madrid signed Ronaldo. So even on your own very narrow definition of "flair", you would be wrong.