Topic: Rodgers the man of the moment

[exiledinyorkshire]

All this hero worship , because of 1 press conference with Forums ??  dont see the comparison between yesterday's emotionally motivated performance compared to what rafa or houllier faced previously ! Funny how the article does not make the point of UTD being shit for 90 minutes and still won the game ! Cannot remeber UTD being so poor before when facing liverpool !  There seems to be a BR propaganda by some writers, but the reality is apart from speeches we have 2/15 points and are in the bottom 3 , and each after match interview from BR sounds like ones usually heard from managers managing teams with relegation credentials, "we played well but still could not win".  Also suso was through Borini Injury and not a substitution masterpiece , it was forced on him, lets not compare BR with Houliier let alone Rafa it really will does not do BR any favours.

And whenever Rafa stuck it up them, that was always the worst they had played ever. When utd look shit for 90 mins, its a good bet that the team they are playing has a lot to do with it. Seriously mate we've all been through this utd had an off day bollucks before. We kept the ball so so well on Sunday and made them look like a pile of shite. If you cant see that, if you cant even muster a little bit of an upbeat tone about the way we played them off the park, then i have to question what the fuck you know about football.

We know that rodgers is going for relentless death by football for those that come to Anfield , and thats what we were getting until Shelvy went. If you cant see that and take a bit of comfort. If all you could see was a poor Utd performance then i out you as a manc fella. They always have an off day when they come to ours and we play well.

[rossipersempre]

Kenny's football last season has been underrated by a lot of supporters. He made us play good football. Remember the 2-1 loss to Arsenal? We played them off the park. That with a midfield that was ill suited. In isolation most of Kenny's game were good performances. So why different sentiments for different manager? Is it because Kenny was a bit guarded about his philosophy? Would people have felt better if Kenny came out and explained his tactics to TAW?

FWIW, I like Rodgers. But the wankfest is a bit too soon. L6 has this temptation of triggering it a bit quickly. Love his writing style, but didn't he predict that Kenny would win the league? Take everything with a pinch of salt no matter how well written or what the current mood is.

Rodgers is an immensly talented coach. But does he have the pragmatism of a Benitez? Can he move away from idealism and get an ugly 3 points like Ferguson did at Anfield. It's about points the style will come later. I know its incredibly early but the signs are that he is talented, can get a side playing but will he have the pragmatism to keep a 1-0 or take an away draw?

No place here for such rational and painfully accurate observations. This is the happy-clappy Kool-Aid thread, remember...

[exiledinyorkshire]

Kenny's football last season has been underrated by a lot of supporters. He made us play good football. Remember the 2-1 loss to Arsenal? We played them off the park. That with a midfield that was ill suited. In isolation most of Kenny's game were good performances. So why different sentiments for different manager? Is it because Kenny was a bit guarded about his philosophy? Would people have felt better if Kenny came out and explained his tactics to TAW?

FWIW, I like Rodgers. But the wankfest is a bit too soon. L6 has this temptation of triggering it a bit quickly. Love his writing style, but didn't he predict that Kenny would win the league? Take everything with a pinch of salt no matter how well written or what the current mood is.

Rodgers is an immensly talented coach. But does he have the pragmatism of a Benitez? Can he move away from idealism and get an ugly 3 points like Ferguson did at Anfield. It's about points the style will come later. I know its incredibly early but the signs are that he is talented, can get a side playing but will he have the pragmatism to keep a 1-0 or take an away draw?

The reason Kenny went, and i actually love the man, is exactly that. He couldnt express his philosophy to the players, to the ownership or the fans. There was little or no methodology to it. That makes people nervous when you arent going well. Also he bought in players that didnt fit his system.

[rossipersempre]

rodgers is going for relentless death by football for those that come to Anfield

He said as much once when quoting that old Chinese adage of "death by a thousand cuts". Problem is paper cuts aren't fatal.

[fowler9_god]

This. Under any other circumstances I would be driving the bandwagon that calls for the managers head. Instead I've thoroughly enjoyed all our performances so far (maybe barring the Arsenal game). Rodgers & the team will come good all it will take is a win.

Driving the bandwagon :rolleyes

Well, a part of the reason for the optimism is that we have played 3 very hard games. Lets see how you see it when we lose games against teams that we 'should' be beating. The style will go out of the window when the other more physical team will hound us and hit us on the break and take a scrappy 1-0.

That's the thing that worries me. Rodgers is trying to implement an idealistic system. Very commendable of course, its great to have a vision, but will he ever have the resource to pull it off? Or will the players ever perfect the system? The problem is that in a system like that one mistake often results in one goal unless you get lucky or you have an amazing midfield engine. And we do not have strikers to score freely?

Its all good finishing top half and giving the manager time. But will the players after another season outside the top 6? Will it end up being a continuous rebuilding work?

More questions than answers for me, but yeah, its definitely exciting what he is trying to do. Just hope it clicks for us and for Rodgers.

[cgahan]

Like everyone, I think the performances, on the whole, have been good. What does worry me though is the thought that this might be the honeymoon period. New manager, players eager to impress, sense of excitement and common purpose around the club.

As the season progresses and we get back on a more even keel and/or we are still struggling for points, performances and confidence might suffer.

Also with such a small and young squad, as the injuries come (depending on who are where we get them) we may struggle to put out teams of the requisite experience/mentality.

I can see some very testing periods this season.

[peachybum]

Like everyone, I think the performances, on the whole, have been good. What does worry me though is the thought that this might be the honeymoon period. New manager, players eager to impress, sense of excitement and common purpose around the club.

There might have been a honeymood period but unfortunately the fixture computer ended that. It gave us Untied, City and Arsenal in our first 3 home games under a new manager. Due to simple bad luck Rodgers wasn't afforded a honeymoon period. It remains to be seen whether he can keep the confidence and belief in him up between the players, owners and supporters so that we're still playing well when we get a few home bankers that we have to start getting 3 points from. The danger is playing the top 3 so earlier has killed any momentum a new manager might have been able to build up and it'll become a battle for him to turn around a side that has been in relegation form for long before he joined.

[kcbworth]

The only negative thing I can see about Rodgers is his unfortunate association with Mourinho. Everything I've seen from him since he's arrived has been first class imho

[fowler9_god]

The reason Kenny went, and i actually love the man, is exactly that. He couldnt express his philosophy to the players, to the ownership or the fans. There was little or no methodology to it. That makes people nervous when you arent going well. Also he bought in players that didnt fit his system.

Kenny for me had different game plans for different games. That's why it looked a bit cluttered. He had an idea of what he was trying to do. There were numerous games last season that if it were under BR people would have been wide eyed and said 'Death by fucking football' after a 1-1 draw. 

Rodgers is smart. He knows how to bend the fanbase. He came out on TAW and explained his tactics. People were starting to ask questions about why we were so open and he explained the 2-1 and the 1-2 in midfield. That put (including myself) in a far more relaxed mood. He keeps on talking about his philosophy and it gets ingrained in your mind. Well, do you see Ferguson doing it? Or Wenger? Both clearly have a great philosophy. He reminds me of a far smarter AVB. One who knows how to sell his stuff. Did you think Kenny didn't knew what was wrong last season? In this information age when a manager doesn't explain his decisions the pressure piles on because everyone fancies themselves as a bit of an expert. If Rafa had came out and said in his last season ' Look Lucas is developing, I know that it isn't working as well it should have, but have a bit of patience, I am looking at replacing Alonso and Aquilani hasn't worked out that well because of his injuries' a lot of people would have said 'right, he knows the problem'. When he probably did but never felt that it should be explained.

But 95% of the managers won't do what Rodgers did. It was a great listen of course, but it did make you wonder.

All I'm saying is that I think we are jumping the gun. Lets see how he gets us playing and lets see if we are getting results. People forget we were in with a fair shout at the top 4 till the last 10 games. If we had beaten Arsenal like we should have, you don't know what would have happened. It's not a bad side, far from it, Rodgers needs to win games and for me the style can wait for a bit.

[rossipersempre]

Like everyone, I think the performances, on the whole, have been good. What does worry me though is the thought that this might be the honeymoon period. New manager, players eager to impress, sense of excitement and common purpose around the club.

Tropical island, five-star resort, positive genuine hope for future together...but sadly impotent in the bedroom. Some Viagra needed and quickly.

[jtouche]

Kenny's football last season has been underrated by a lot of supporters. He made us play good football. Remember the 2-1 loss to Arsenal? We played them off the park. That with a midfield that was ill suited. In isolation most of Kenny's game were good performances. So why different sentiments for different manager? Is it because Kenny was a bit guarded about his philosophy? Would people have felt better if Kenny came out and explained his tactics to TAW?

FWIW, I like Rodgers. But the wankfest is a bit too soon. L6 has this temptation of triggering it a bit quickly. Love his writing style, but didn't he predict that Kenny would win the league? Take everything with a pinch of salt no matter how well written or what the current mood is.

Rodgers is an immensly talented coach. But does he have the pragmatism of a Benitez? Can he move away from idealism and get an ugly 3 points like Ferguson did at Anfield. It's about points the style will come later. I know its incredibly early but the signs are that he is talented, can get a side playing but will he have the pragmatism to keep a 1-0 or take an away draw?

I really like your post. Lots of sense and balance.

However, I do not think that Ferguson was out to get 3 ugly points.
BR's main school is possession. With it, you defend lesser and attack more. Players conserve their energy more and can use it to pressure when the ball is lost.
Ferguson would love to dominate possession against us and win but he couldn't. He got lucky with the ref. That's all.

Of course, it is good to win ugly but to set out winning ugly is a depressing way to play the game.
I hope we only resort to trying to win ugly only as the last resort.
Roy set us out to win ugly. He signed Paulsen to tackle and play ugly mid. Signed Konchesky to launch the long balls.
Got the entire defence to hoof the ball and hope to win ugly.
I do not want to see us there again.

I hate to quote Barca as ppl might think that I prefer Liverpool to be like them. I want Liverpool to be Liverpool.
Barca believes in control, control and control. It is like being a banker in a casino. The odds matter.
Of course they lose sometimes like players wining in casino but long run, banker always wins.

I want Liverpool to have that odds, the ability to control. Luck will come. Odds will show.
I want us to keep attacking when we are in front. I want us to keep attacking when we are behind.
I lost count of the number of matches last season we stopped attacking after a one goal lead.
I lost count of the number of times we hoof the ball when we are defending a one goal lead.
For once, we have a manager who has the balls to get carra to pass the ball out of the defence.

We are not top 4. We have to accept it. We need to know our faults before we can improve.
5 games is a really short time to gel players to a new style but we have to take the med sooner or later.
The earlier we recover the better.

I want Liverpool to dominate lower and top teams. I want them to chase our tails. I want them to fear us.
Of course we need to score and win soon. But for the longer vision, I am willing to wait. I can accept a top half finish.
I really hope BR can achieve what he wants with Liverpool.

[SP]

No place here for such rational and painfully accurate observations. This is the happy-clappy Kool-Aid thread, remember...

For a happy clappy Kool-Aid topic it seems to be rather dominated by sniping and petty point scoring. It is possible to discuss the current manager without reliving the reasons why the previous manager(s) are no longer her. And without being consumed by bitterness a particular poster's favoured candidate was not selected.

The OP is an attempt to point out that we have much more cause for optimism than our meagre points total would suggest. It is also points out that we are actually playing football that is good to watch - which we did not manage consistently under Kenny, never managed under Hodgson, and did not really manage in Rafa's last year. It is not an attempt to portray Brendan Rodgers as the new messiah. It is not claiming that Brendan Rodgers has magically fixed the club and all the problems are being fixed. It is an opinion piece reflecting optimism in the direction the club is going.

[wheresnemeth]

I think that we played well without getting the result against united and city. I do however think that we are placing too much emphases on playing well against or beating the big teams at the moment. The test is always the match played after playing one of the top sides. I enjoyed watching us play but I've watched united play this season and their midfield is quite frankly shit which says a lot about their ability to get good results.
Players adapting to Rogers style of play is not such a major factor in our results thus far. No matter how well we played and even after scoring first I didn't think that we would win the game. Like last year I always get the feeling that when the other team gets on top for a few minutes in the game that they are going to score. As a collective this team is mentally piss poor and if Rogers can't sort that out then players adapting to the style of play will be the least of our problems.

[Funky_Gibbons]

Driving the bandwagon :rolleyes

Well, a part of the reason for the optimism is that we have played 3 very hard games. Lets see how you see it when we lose games against teams that we 'should' be beating. The style will go out of the window when the other more physical team will hound us and hit us on the break and take a scrappy 1-0.

That's the thing that worries me. Rodgers is trying to implement an idealistic system. Very commendable of course, its great to have a vision, but will he ever have the resource to pull it off? Or will the players ever perfect the system? The problem is that in a system like that one mistake often results in one goal unless you get lucky or you have an amazing midfield engine. And we do not have strikers to score freely?

Its all good finishing top half and giving the manager time. But will the players after another season outside the top 6? Will it end up being a continuous rebuilding work?

More questions than answers for me, but yeah, its definitely exciting what he is trying to do. Just hope it clicks for us and for Rodgers.

If I were to liken the style of play that Rodger's wants us to play to any other teams, I would say it is similar to the Roy Evans team of the early 90's and to what Wenger has done at Arsenal.

Now both these managers have consistently finished in the top four using this style and I would also say without spending significant funds.

As for any players that may want to leave at the end of the season if we finish outside the top 6. Well that will be the fourth season in a row that we have finished outside the top 5 and as most of these players will have contributed to those results then I would be happy see them leave if they haven't got the stomach for the fight.

[cgahan]

There might have been a honeymood period but unfortunately the fixture computer ended that. It gave us Untied, City and Arsenal in our first 3 home games under a new manager. Due to simple bad luck Rodgers wasn't afforded a honeymoon period. It remains to be seen whether he can keep the confidence and belief in him up between the players, owners and supporters so that we're still playing well when we get a few home bankers that we have to start getting 3 points from. The danger is playing the top 3 so earlier has killed any momentum a new manager might have been able to build up and it'll become a battle for him to turn around a side that has been in relegation form for long before he joined.

Not so sure I'd agree with that. City haven't started well, Stoke drew with them at home and Southampton gave them a good game at the Etihad. That Utd team was pretty poor, as bad as anything we've seen from them over the past decade.

2 points from the first five games, in almost anyone's book, is a poor return. I think the danger now is failing to beat Norwich or Stoke. I think there will be a real sense of unease then which will make things more difficult still.

[Melbred]

For a happy clappy Kool-Aid topic it seems to be rather dominated by sniping and petty point scoring. It is possible to discuss the current manager without reliving the reasons why the previous manager(s) are no longer her. And without being consumed by bitterness a particular poster's favoured candidate was not selected.

The OP is an attempt to point out that we have much more cause for optimism than our meagre points total would suggest. It is also points out that we are actually playing football that is good to watch - which we did not manage consistently under Kenny, never managed under Hodgson, and did not really manage in Rafa's last year. It is not an attempt to portray Brendan Rodgers as the new messiah. It is not claiming that Brendan Rodgers has magically fixed the club and all the problems are being fixed. It is an opinion piece reflecting optimism in the direction the club is going.

Yep, some posters on here are making out like it's a bad thing for supporters to look for the positives and back the manager. There's plenty to be optimistic about.

Where we are in the table isn't indicative of how we're playing, and is not surprising considering the teams we've had to play as well.

[rossipersempre]

And without being consumed by bitterness a particular poster's favoured candidate was not selected.

That's a cheap shot mate. And if we're talking preferred managers, between Rafa and Kenny, I'd say that covers a LOT of people.

We're all Liverpool fans so Rodgers being successful runs parallel with that. It's not disloyal or bitter to suggest that for all the premature eulogising going on here, there's some concern in terms of pragmatism.

[Roger Federer]

It's about points the style will come later.

But how does style come later if you don't start implementing it from day 1? Why not - when expectations are low, the squad short of quality but filled with talented youngsters willing to learn - start right away? There is no given way of playing that gains us points, especially against the likes of City, Arsenal and United (and in those games I think it's been individual mistakes rather than a lack of pragmatism that has seen us drop points). But the sooner our players learn what Rodgers want, the more chance we've got at taking points in the future. I wont necessarily work out even then, but atleast I want us to give it a go, as I do believe in Rodgers way of playing.

[killer-heels]

I am certainly concerned with our current plight. I think Rodgers is a good manager but I don't yet there is enough being shown to believe that things will become much, much better than they are. Also, since January we have been in relegation form so can Rodgers turn this around?

I hope so but it is a bit worrying.

[SP]

That's a cheap shot mate. And if we're talking preferred managers, between Rafa and Kenny, I'd say that covers a LOT of people.

We're all Liverpool fans so Rodgers being successful runs parallel with that. It's not disloyal or bitter to suggest that for all the premature eulogising going on here, there's some concern in terms of pragmatism.

It was not just aimed at you.

The perceived eulogising in the OP is far milder and with more caveats than are being acknowledged by its critics. It is unashamedly a feel-good piece, but after being beaten by United in a contentious fashion that definitely has its place.

The Pavlovian four yorkshiremen tales of woe in response from certain posters misjudged the mood of the topic - the points could happily have been made in another topic but seemed dissonant here.

[fowler9_god]

But how does style come later if you don't start implementing it from day 1? Why not - when expectations are low, the squad short of quality but filled with talented youngsters willing to learn - start right away? There is no given way of playing that gains us points, especially against the likes of City, Arsenal and United (and in those games I think it's been individual mistakes rather than a lack of pragmatism that has seen us drop points). But the sooner our players learn what Rodgers want, the more chance we've got at taking points in the future. I wont necessarily work out even then, but atleast I want us to give it a go, as I do believe in Rodgers way of playing.

Use the players you have and play to your strengths. Like Kenny did when we went to Chelsea as a temporary manager. 3 at the back, sussed Chelsea's 3 forwards, play on the counter. He knew we cannot beat them when we go toe to toe so he went with a different game plan. It could have failed of course, but if we had gone to the Bridge with the idea to pass it around, push the fullbacks up, control the game etc, it all sounds great in theory but I think we'd have gotten beat.

There's a way to do it when you can get points along with slowly implementing your style. Just like Rafa. It took him a good 4 years to finally see us playing he wanted to. But he won us stuff by choosing horses for courses, different tactics for different teams, by being pragmatic. Rodgers hasn't and to be very honest I don't think he can. Its all or none for him.

As I've said, very commendable but a tad risky.

Lets wait and see though.

[cgahan]

Use the players you have and play to your strengths. Like Kenny did when we went to Chelsea as a temporary manager. 3 at the back, sussed Chelsea's 3 forwards, play on the counter. He knew we cannot beat them when we go toe to toe so he went with a different game plan. It could have failed of course, but if we had gone to the Bridge with the idea to pass it around, push the fullbacks up, control the game etc, it all sounds great in theory but I think we'd have gotten beat.

There's a way to do it when you can get points along with slowly implementing your style. Just like Rafa. It took him a good 4 years to finally see us playing he wanted to. But he won us stuff by choosing horses for courses, different tactics for different teams, by being pragmatic. Rodgers hasn't and to be very honest I don't think he can. Its all or none for him.

As I've said, very commendable but a tad risky.

Lets wait and see though.

Think that's a fair point.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Thing is, he's our manager for good or ill.


We cannot afford to continue the merry-go-round of appointments and hiring/firings. We need some stability. The owners made the decision to bin Kenny and bring Rodgers in. Got to get behind him. I can't see how the negativity is helpful.

[Melbred]

Use the players you have and play to your strengths. Like Kenny did when we went to Chelsea as a temporary manager. 3 at the back, sussed Chelsea's 3 forwards, play on the counter. He knew we cannot beat them when we go toe to toe so he went with a different game plan. It could have failed of course, but if we had gone to the Bridge with the idea to pass it around, push the fullbacks up, control the game etc, it all sounds great in theory but I think we'd have gotten beat.

There's a way to do it when you can get points along with slowly implementing your style. Just like Rafa. It took him a good 4 years to finally see us playing he wanted to. But he won us stuff by choosing horses for courses, different tactics for different teams, by being pragmatic. Rodgers hasn't and to be very honest I don't think he can. Its all or none for him.

As I've said, very commendable but a tad risky.

Lets wait and see though.

I don't see how we're not playing to our strengths. We've conceded this season due to individual mistakes, and because we've been down to 10 men. People use the loss of Lucas to injury to defend Kenny's time here, but Rogers hasn't had Lucas either.

Nothing to do with us being exploited (bar the Arsenal game, where we were just shite overall).

[underdog]

Here's how I see it. Would I have liked Kenny to be in charge this season, yes I would. When he was sacked did I want Rafa back, yes I did. When BR was given the job I wanted him to be able to spend on world class players, but that didn't happen. Right now we are finding it hard to pick up points, just like under Roy, but this time while we struggle we improve every game. Our style and system improves and not only that we are doing it with a lot of players under the age if 21, players who will be coming into their prime next season or later and will be able to play at their best for us for many years.

While the points aren't flowing its hard not to be impressed when we have our youth players coming through and being a big part of the team against top sides; or when you see how well we are coping with the loss of Lucas compared to last season, and we have coped by buying young talent at decent prices. I dread to think what Allen will be worth next summer if he keeps thus form up, or Sterling even.

[Funky_Gibbons]

I am certainly concerned with our current plight. I think Rodgers is a good manager but I don't yet there is enough being shown to believe that things will become much, much better than they are. Also, since January we have been in relegation form so can Rodgers turn this around?

I hope so but it is a bit worrying.

I would say that restricting the top two teams from last season to a sum total of 6 shots on target against us this season is a sign that things have improved.

Talking about our form from January is not really relevant as Rodger's wasn't the manager then. Yes we only have 2pts from 5-games this season but we have played three of the top four so far. If we had lost to teams we expect to see in the bottom half of the table then that would be a worry (WBA aside).

[WavertreeRed]

Driving the bandwagon :rolleyes

Well, a part of the reason for the optimism is that we have played 3 very hard games. Lets see how you see it when we lose games against teams that we 'should' be beating. The style will go out of the window when the other more physical team will hound us and hit us on the break and take a scrappy 1-0.

In my view we already are losing to teams we should be beating. We should expect every home game to be a win.

The optimism stems from BR's philosophy, which aligns itself perfectly with our tactics of old. It stems from his willingness to introduce youth into top level games (rather than rely on seasoned players who aren't in form). My optimism is also in the clear progress he is making in implemnting his playing style, the (r?)evolution of moving on from last seasons tactics to this seasons is taking shape. With each passing game (pardon the pun) we are seeing a more creative and penetrative style of play being implemented. Yes I probably will be pissed off if we draw with wigan or slip up away to Stoke, but the progress will still be there for those who choose to see it.

[Red Genius]

It's really quite simple for me, early days with the team learning how Brendan wants us to approach games, the fact we even partially resemble that team already is commendable to all those involved. We've had an incredibly tough start with the fixture list which has given the squad little or no time to get it right, the teams arriving here in City, United and Arsenal are all arriving here with a nice stable squad and managers who have successfully implemented their strategy, we're very much in transition and learning ours, that's a disavantage immediately.

Talking about balance, and getting results as well as playing the idealistic football Brendan desires is fine, but we've not really had an opportunity to do that yet, we've played some very difficult games. The test will be in the upcoming 2 or 3 games, to see if we can put away teams that are arguably weaker than ours, if we pick up some wins on the bounce everything will start to feel and look a bit rosier.

Anybody who had grand visions of finishing in the top 4 this year, would always have been dissapointed - the squad doesn't compare to those up there at the moment, the likes of Chelsea, United and City are far stronger, Arsenal are far more stable, as are clubs like Everton. It'll take another summer transfer window before we can indulge in such fantasies i believe. In the meantime look at the positives, focus on the progression - remove all illusions of grandeur this year, and for the first time in a long bloody time just enjoy the football.

[rossipersempre]

Use the players you have and play to your strengths. Like Kenny did when we went to Chelsea as a temporary manager. 3 at the back, sussed Chelsea's 3 forwards, play on the counter. He knew we cannot beat them when we go toe to toe so he went with a different game plan. It could have failed of course, but if we had gone to the Bridge with the idea to pass it around, push the fullbacks up, control the game etc, it all sounds great in theory but I think we'd have gotten beat.

There's a way to do it when you can get points along with slowly implementing your style. Just like Rafa. It took him a good 4 years to finally see us playing he wanted to. But he won us stuff by choosing horses for courses, different tactics for different teams, by being pragmatic. Rodgers hasn't and to be very honest I don't think he can. Its all or none for him.

As I've said, very commendable but a tad risky.

Lets wait and see though.

A well-chosen example and find myself agreeing with every word.

[Rob17]

I am not concerned at all about our start to the season, frustrated yes but not concerned.  Given time, especially after the transfer window we will start to see massive steps forward.  My only concern is that this is clearly a long term project that we were never going to see the benefits of straight away, but unfortunately the way fans and the media are now they demand instant success.

Is it fair to say in this day of social media, over-analysis and impatience there is no way Alex Ferguson would have survived his first year at United?

[Roger Federer]

Use the players you have and play to your strengths.

But that's the thing for me. The likes of Agger, Johnson, Lucas, Allen, Sahin, Suarez, Reina, Gerrard - our best players - and youngsters like Sterling and Suso would like to play this way - I'm pretty certain that's the case. They did at other clubs (Ajax, Dortmund and Swansea), for their national teams (Brazil, Spain and Denmark), for the reserves under Borrell, and in Kenny's best period as well (after he took over and before Lucas injury last season). They are much better players when we take the initative and put pressure on the other team - both on and off the ball - so I can't really see what Rodgers is doing wrong so far. I can of course see the mistakes we've made on the pitch, but are they down to the manager and his style of play? Not for me, and I saw plenty of poor mistakes in Rafa's last season or since the turn of the year under Kenny too, despite both perhaps being more pragmatic.

Lets wait and see though.

However, this is right and pretty much the only thing we can do right now. There are no guarantees that we will start to win even if I think Rodgers' ideas are right.

[steveeastend]

The owners cannot deflact from their responsibility for the current situation. It doesn´t matter which system...with only one striker it´s impossible to score on a regular basis which is obviously crucial for winning games.

[fowler9_god]

Thing is, he's our manager for good or ill.


We cannot afford to continue the merry-go-round of appointments and hiring/firings. We need some stability. The owners made the decision to bin Kenny and bring Rodgers in. Got to get behind him. I can't see how the negativity is helpful.

Yup. We simply cannot afford to have another overhaul. Atleast with Rodgers we might see the kids breaking through and have a technically strong core of players irresepective of what we achieve. After that it is time to asses. He will hopefully leave us in a stronger position even if he ends up not winning as much as Liverpool fans would like him to.

[red4life69]

What goads me is the sly presenters and all the nagativity on here.

Man utd didnt play because Liverpool stopped them playing well. FACT !! We held the ball up better than I have seen a modern day Liverpool side every hold the ball up. And the look at the manure faces as they left the field they were fkin knackered we made them Fuckers chase every ball.

If it wasnt for poor decision making from halsey I reckon we might have grabbed another goal especially with luis's Penalty.

And if Evans had righly be sent off I wondered how hard they would have found it to get the ball from liverpool then. they certainly wouldnt have had that extra space to operate in. And looking back not even johnson tackle was a clear penalty its just that everything seemed to go manures way.

But one thing I would say luis when fouled needs stop throwing his fucking head back after the tackle as its an unnaturual thing to do and Halsey may have given it then. I have seen it through out all south american and contintental players accenting the fould its stupid and unncessary. He was fouled plain to see but the play acting needs to stop however fucking good he is.

I still would like to see Adam Morgan have his chance too I cant see him doing any worse than borini did  borini didnt seem to be enough emphasis in getting good positions in the box. Granted great at off the ball stuff taking the player out position etc ie jonjo's last goal but on Saturday we all needed to see an actual goal scorer in him.

BUt there is an improvement and nothing less than 9 points from the next three games should be tolerated.

I hope we can put west brom to the sword nice and nice cup run to follow would be a good start for the whole squad.

Lets go you redmen

Red4life

YNWA
JFT 96
Dont buy the S(c)un (m)
 

 

[jtouche]

Use the players you have and play to your strengths. Like Kenny did when we went to Chelsea as a temporary manager. 3 at the back, sussed Chelsea's 3 forwards, play on the counter. He knew we cannot beat them when we go toe to toe so he went with a different game plan. It could have failed of course, but if we had gone to the Bridge with the idea to pass it around, push the fullbacks up, control the game etc, it all sounds great in theory but I think we'd have gotten beat.

There's a way to do it when you can get points along with slowly implementing your style. Just like Rafa. It took him a good 4 years to finally see us playing he wanted to. But he won us stuff by choosing horses for courses, different tactics for different teams, by being pragmatic. Rodgers hasn't and to be very honest I don't think he can. Its all or none for him.

As I've said, very commendable but a tad risky.

Lets wait and see though.

It is due to the their personalities.

Rafa was more concerned on opposition. He will research and counter all the opposition's strength.
The game plan was to reduce their threats and hit them hard on counters. A very tactical approach on controlling opponents.
Tend to win ugly but effective. An extremely well-evolved version of defend and hoof. (Not conventional hoof tactics of Roy)
Requires discipline when defending. Defensive shape is needed even when attacking.

BR is more on possession and control. Requires good ball playing players. Game plan is to control ball time and pressure opponents into opening up.
More towards Ajax and Barca. Beautiful style but requires excellent discipline both during attacking and defending.
Prone to individual errors so players need to be extremely mobile to recover ball and space. For ex, Carroll is too slow on acceleration hence not suited for this play.
Advantage is that there is no need to counter opposition's strengths. Idea is based on that the opponent do not have attacking strength when they do not have the ball.

Different style. Different beliefs.
Both effective if successfully implemented.
But they both need time to drill discipline.

[Red Genius]

A well-chosen example and find myself agreeing with every word.

You're going to have a difficult time this season then mate. Because that is not how Brendan's vision operates, he's implenting his philosophy and like Rafa before him the system is all important, it's all about getting the A game nailed down first. The reference to Barcelona is because a lot of the concepts they use Brendan wants to adopt, and Barca are probably the best example of a team believing in their system - especially when they are 0-1 down in the 90th minute, they continue playing the same way.

So if you're arguing that the team should put it's education of Brendans concepts to one side to balance pragmatism of these early results, your going to be dissapointed because it's just never going to happen, infact if we see Brendan do this, it will mean one thing, he's lost faith in his belief that the system works and at that point his position becomes untenable.

Get behind the concept, the ideals, the players... it's going to take some time for this squad to embrace it in it's entirity, it's going to take even longer (transfer windows) to get the squad in a position where the philosophy can be delivered to it's optimum effect.

[wheresnemeth]

Talking about our form from January is not really relevant as Rodger's wasn't the manager then. Yes we only have 2pts from 5-games this season but we have played three of the top four so far. If we had lost to teams we expect to see in the bottom half of the table then that would be a worry (WBA aside).

I disagree as I do think that it is relevant. Even though the manager is different the results are the same which means that the players are carrying on from where they left off last season. I do however think that the results in the next few games will be an indicator as to how far the team has progressed. This team needs a come from behind win to give them the confidence to know that they can win when the chips are down.

[BarryCrocker]

The football looks good. Unfortunately, sponsors and potential signings very rarely get excited by the style if there is no result. Fortress Anfield has seen us accumulate 1 point out of 9.

In Rodgers own words "I've always said, no matter what team you're at, your home form is very, very important,".

Now we've played three top squads early in their campaigns. City are a tough gig considering the depth of their squad. United were genuinely pants and although we had 61% possession in the 1st half we failed to capitalise. Arsenal had gone through significant change, losing their captain and leading goalscorer. To not take maximum points from even one of those matches risks the status of 'Fortress Anfield".

Taking 1 from 6 against teams that have either brought in a number of new players or are under new managers (just like us) was also disappointing.

But lets reserve judgment until Jan 1. Between then and now we have 7 games at home, 6 of which are against teams that finished below us last season. Failure to take 15 out of 21 will make Jan/Feb very difficult with the away matches against United, Arsenal and City coming within 21 days (Arsenal & City within 3 days).

[henry]

When BR first appointed, i wasn't sure if the decision was right. He is a good manager and done some good stuff but with only one season in the EPL, i personally thought it was too soon for him to take on a club this big. Other doubts i have including "how our big players going to react with this appointment?" - i.e. Chelsea players against Luís André de Pina Cabral e Villas-Boas.

Over the summer he has been saying the right things but without any competitive matches to see what he could do with the team, I couldn't wait to see it for real instead of base on theory and the his system implemented in Swansea.

From what i see in the past 5 games, despite we haven't won a game yet and only have 2 points. I think we have done pretty well as we have played ManU, City and Arsenal already, which on top of that we have integrate youngsters into our first team (not just sub on for the last few minutes neither).

i don't think many would disagree that we are actually improving game after game.

Now the question is that - would he stick with what he has been doing or change under the pressure not just from the fans but from the media? - "5 games without a win", "worst start in 100 years".... if he can handle the insane pressure now and stick with his guns, then i think i would be able to finish in the top 6, if not higher.

[rossipersempre]

But one thing I would say luis when fouled needs stop throwing his fucking head back after the tackle as its an unnaturual thing to do and Halsey may have given it then.

Funny, I heard Gary Neville say those exact words.