Topic: Work / Employment advice thread

[wardides]

Apologies for digging up an old thread, but didn't feel it warranted a new topic. Mod's can advise if so.

Has anyone had any experience of not working through a notice period in work? In a position where my notice period is 2 months (in a junior executive position in my current role, offered a massive step forward in my career). However, stipulation is a required start date of 11th April. Would leave me working 5 weeks as opposed to the 8 required, and I only have 3 annual leave days to use against it also.

I understand that I'd be in breach of contract, but how likely would an employer be to follow this through with legal action?

[Lfsea]

Apologies for digging up an old thread, but didn't feel it warranted a new topic. Mod's can advise if so.

Has anyone had any experience of not working through a notice period in work? In a position where my notice period is 2 months (in a junior executive position in my current role, offered a massive step forward in my career). However, stipulation is a required start date of 11th April. Would leave me working 5 weeks as opposed to the 8 required, and I only have 3 annual leave days to use against it also.

I understand that I'd be in breach of contract, but how likely would an employer be to follow this through with legal action?

My first reaction to your post is wondering why they have stipulated such a definite cut-off as a start date? If this is a ladder climb from a junior executive position to something more senior, then most applicants would have to give up to three months notice and I would be very surprised if an HR department weren't flexible and ultimately accomodating to that.

[CraigDS]

They can go after you for damages, but the chances of them doing so is probably pretty slim as they'd have to prove direct loss of business due to you not working the notice.

They are allowed to put this in any reference though. So if things don't go well at your next job and you end up looking for something else, then not only have you burnt your bridges with your current employer but if you include them as a reference then it could be mentioned.

[wardides]

This.

You could also speak to your current employer about the situation, as if you are up front and honest, they may be reasonable and allow you to leave sooner than the 2 months contracted. I recently let someone leave after a month of their 2 month notice period as their new role had an earlier starting date. When I hired the replacement, they were forced to work their full 3 month notice. Grr! But generally these things are not absolutely set in stone.

Yeah in regards toe new start date, it's essentially because the person I'm replacing is leaving the week after the 11th and they want some sort of handover. Probably should have hired me earlier, but that's their decision.


Was really up front with current boss. Just explained it was something I couldn't turn down. Completely understand that it's my current employers decision, and as you said above their discretion could come back to hurt them if the person they're getting in isn't allowed go for 2 months. I was more so wondering about the chances of being taken to court for breach of contract, but 2 people have told me it's rather unlikely. Definitely don't want to leave and burn bridges so I'll try smooth it over as delicate as possible.

[damian]

Thought I'd use this existing post rather than starting another, and unfortunately I can't find an answer to my question anywhere on the acas website. I'm hoping someone here might be able to help.

My question is about notice periods. I've only been in my current job since June, but it's not turned out to be what I expected, it's not a nice environment to work in, and just to make sure the quality of the software I'm developing is on time whilst still being to a standard I'm happy with (i.e. it works, well) I'm having to put in ridiculous amounts of overtime (gone midnight for the last 3 weeks), unpaid overtime at that.

Anyway, today I got offered another job. The problem is my current contract states I'm on a 3 month notice period, however the new company need me to start within 2 months at most (ideally 1 month) as they already have some training booked which I'd need to go on.

I had an initial 6 month probation period, at the end of which I had a review and was advised I was successful. However, I never actually received anything in writing to confirm this, or signed anything. Can I potentially use this to shorten my notice period (I wouldn't ask to leave within a week, it wouldn't be fair, however the contract did state that whilst under probation the notice period would be 1 week). An ex colleague told me he did manage to leave a previous company with a weeks notice for this same reason, and HR apparently backed him up because they had hold of the unsigned probation paperwork, but I'd like some facts to back me up when I hand in my notice (probably tomorrow).

I'm not sure yet whether they'll try to hold me to the 3 months, but it does seem a little excessive as I've been there less than a year, but at the same time it is stated in the contract, which I signed.

Any advice appreciated.

[CraigDS]

If that's what's in your contract then that's what, technically, you've got to give.

Now you've three options...

You work it.

You fuck it off and just leave when you need to and run the risk of them coming after you for damages (this almost never happens for a role like yours as they've got to prove an actual loss from you leaving early, which is hard to do). They can also say you didn't work the notice in any future reference.

You talk to your current employer and ask if you can come to an agreement with them to end the notice early.

[Alan_X]

You talk to your current employer and ask if you can come to an agreement with them to end the notice early.

[CraigDS]

^ is definitely what I'd suggest to do first.

[damian]

If that's what's in your contract then that's what, technically, you've got to give.

Now you've three options...

You work it.

You fuck it off and just leave when you need to and run the risk of them coming after you for damages (this almost never happens for a role like yours as they've got to prove an actual loss from you leaving early, which is hard to do). They can also say you didn't work the notice in any future reference.

You talk to your current employer and ask if you can come to an agreement with them to end the notice early.

^ is definitely what I'd suggest to do first.

Thanks.

I think they'd struggle to claim they've made a loss from me leaving - most of the projects I've worked on since starting there have been within teams, so there are others who know as much as me about them and therefore hardly any handover should actually be needed, The main projects I've been scheduled in to work on were finally finished and launched last week so there shouldn't be an issue of clients claiming compensation from them for work I've not done by leaving early.

I actually came close to quitting on the spot a few weeks ago when the IT Director sent me an email telling me I'd let the team down, and the developers of some software down, and was to apologise to all concerned immediately. All this because I was asked at short notice to demo some software I'd barely had any involvement with, had no time to prepare, and it then failed (quite spectacularly). When I got the email I asked the director to call me to discuss it, he didn't so I tried calling him, he didn't answer. The next morning I got another email telling me he was on leave that day, didn't expect to be dealing with it, and basically I was to do as I was told (I refused). It annoyed me a lot that he didn't have the decency to let me explain what happened, and I walked into the office with the full intention of quitting there and then. I managed to calm down a bit my the time I managed to get my manager into a room though, but explained I wasn't happy with the situation and told him I would not under any circumstances be grovelling to anyone with an apology (none of my team expected me to by the way, or blamed me in any way). Never had an apology for that, and it's the main reason I'll be giving for resigning.

I have a feeling they might let me leave within a month (I'll be saving them from having to sack me as I've let the team down so badly afterall ), but if not I'll negotiate to 2 months. If they don't accept I'll just give them the 2 months anyway (or just drop it back to a month if they're unwilling to negotiate at all) and see whether they do decide to follow it up.

Thanks again. Usually I hate handing in my notice, worst part of going for a new job - this is one of the only times when I'm actually quite looking forward to it

[CraigDS]

You could walk and in your resignation letter stare you're considering claiming for constructive dismissal due to the way you were treated and them creating a 'hostile work environment'.

You're best meeting with them and dropping that in though, should help your case for lowering the notice period.

[damian]

It is certainly something I'll be mentioning, in particular that the director refused to discuss the matter and to allow me to explain what had gone wrong.

I should I suppose make sure I back up all the emails I've received before doing anything in case they somehow "disappear" :-)

Thanks again for the advice.

[trenchtownrasta]

Has anyone quit a job for a lower paying one here?
My situation:
I've been working in my current employ (renewables company) for just under a year and a company (construction)  that I sent my CV to before I started came back to me with an interview date and a subsequent offer.
The new company will train me for chartership which I can sit mid next year and pay me the same as my current job but offering training in a skill I don't currently have.
I was happy enough with this arrangement and handed in my notice to my current job, but now they have come back to me with an offer that is 20% more than my new job +two days more holiday and a 10% bonus.
I'm thinking of mentioning this to my new company but really don't want to jeopardise my start there as I think what they are paying me to in effect train up is the most they will pay.
I'm really struggling with this decision, renewables is a very volitile industry and is extremely reliant on government subsidy but on the other hand it is completely necessary.
This is the hardest decision I've had to make in my life, I know I should research it and come to my own conclusion (which I will/have) but just interested to hear of any similar situations and how they panned out.
*typed on phone

[CraigDS]

It's probably not something someone elses experience can help you with, as getting less (well, it's actually the same as now) money may be fine for one person but not for another.

Is what you're earning now, which is what you'll continue to earn if you move jobs, a decent enough amount for you to live off and have some to enjoy?

Is the training they'll give you something which will lead to you being able to move up the ladder and eventually earn more? Or something you'd enjoy more? Or something more stable?

Does your current job offer you any scope to move up the ladder or will you likely be stuck on the increased pay for a long time?

Which job would you enjoy doing more in the short term - as money is everything, especially if you hate your current role.


These are only really things you can look at yourself and decide.

[AB LFC]

I was going to say it's completely up to you and only a decision you can make yourself but one thing I'd research is which company is in a better position and more likely to be around in 15-20 years time, that way it's easier to work your way up.

[damian]

So, handed in my notice but been told I need to do 9 weeks notice  (8 weeks + 1 week I've booked off as leave). Problem I have is this would mean the first day of my new job would be going on an off site training course - not ideal.

Seems odd though as they're saying they want me to start on another project, however even the other senior developer I work with says this is a weird one - usually you wouldn't want someone working on a big project, especially if keeping them against their will (not that I'm unprofessional enough to do anything wrong, not intentionally anyway).

I think I'll give ACAS a call at lunch to see what my rights are. I've had a few people say that having been here under 12 months I shouldn't be giving more than 30 days, others saying because I've had no written confirmation of passing my probation period I still work under those rules (which is 2 weeks in contract).

[CraigDS]

The under 12 months thing doesn't count if you have something in your contract.

What do you have with regards to passing probation? You had the meeting you mention, and have worked on since, so presumably that's a confirmation.

They seem to have been fairly reasonable so far given they've dropped it from 12 to 8 weeks, not sure you're going to have much of a case for anything else.

As for putting you on a new job, could well be that if you do decide to walk before the 8 weeks they'll look to point to you leaving them in the shit on this job and maybe look to claim damages that way.

[damian]

I did have the meeting and have worked on since, however in the contract it states I may have the notice period extended if I'm not viewed as having met expectations - with a lack of anything in writing I could assume this is what I'm doing.

I agree it could be a seen as good they are willing to reduce it, however I don't see (and the other senior agrees) that they're going to get a lot from be being here because the project won't get finished still, and I'll then have to hand over what I do do. If, as the director said in his email I am a let down to the team then surely they'll want me gone ASAP :-)

[CraigDS]

I did have the meeting and have worked on since, however in the contract it states I may have the notice period extended if I'm not viewed as having met expectations - with a lack of anything in writing I could assume this is what I'm doing.

Not really, as you'd assume this would definitely need to be in writing. I'm not certain, but I'd assume given you've not been notified otherwise and continued to work on since the meeting that they'd have a good argument to show you passed your probation.

I agree it could be a seen as good they are willing to reduce it, however I don't see (and the other senior agrees) that they're going to get a lot from be being here because the project won't get finished still, and I'll then have to hand over what I do do. If, as the director said in his email I am a let down to the team then surely they'll want me gone ASAP :-)

Makes no difference in this situation what the director said, unless you went for constructive dismissal, but then I think you've maybe gone too far now to play that card. The fact is they've put you on a job and presumably it'll be easily accountable should you go early as to what they've lost - which is what they could go after you for.


Without sounding too shitty - you signed a contract which had a stipulation of 3 months in, and your current employers have dropped this by a 3rd for you when they didn't have to. Either work it or walk, but know there may be consequences to the latter.

[trenchtownrasta]

Thanks for the advice Craig/ AB, it helped me immensely. I posted up here as a way to clear my thoughts more than anything I'd say.
I've weighed it up and I'll be going with the new company,
The commute is 2 mins vs half an hour and I'll have a professional qualification that will allow me to probabilistically earn more long term.

[Circa1892]

Quick query from me.

Basically, I work in a membership organisation at management level. Last week on April Fools Day every department posted some form of April Fools joke. We posted one saying that we'd be rerunning our elections.

This week I received a letter from my line manager saying I was required to attend a final gross misconduct hearing later that day. I had had no prior notice of this. Anyway, I attended with a colleague and due to the "mitigation" I put forward (which boiled down to - it was April fucking Fools Day) I was told I would not be summarily dismissed on this occassion, but that I was being given a final written warning which will remain on my file for 12 months.

I'm a bit at a loss for what to do - lots of things going round my head around grievances, constructive dismissal etc - and I'm just a bit shocked really as in the 18 months I've been there I've had an exemplary record and been a high performing staff member. Anyone come across anything similar?

[halfpoundcheesy]

Quick query from me.

Basically, I work in a membership organisation at management level. Last week on April Fools Day every department posted some form of April Fools joke. We posted one saying that we'd be rerunning our elections.

This week I received a letter from my line manager saying I was required to attend a final gross misconduct hearing later that day. I had had no prior notice of this. Anyway, I attended with a colleague and due to the "mitigation" I put forward (which boiled down to - it was April fucking Fools Day) I was told I would not be summarily dismissed on this occassion, but that I was being given a final written warning which will remain on my file for 12 months.

I'm a bit at a loss for what to do - lots of things going round my head around grievances, constructive dismissal etc - and I'm just a bit shocked really as in the 18 months I've been there I've had an exemplary record and been a high performing staff member. Anyone come across anything similar?

Would be a brave HR team that dismissed on "gross misconduct" for what sounds like a misunderstood joke. Depending on what the other teams did, you could look for a comparable example and appeal the warning - but it might not make you feel any better.

[Circa1892]

Would be a brave HR team that dismissed on "gross misconduct" for what sounds like a misunderstood joke. Depending on what the other teams did, you could look for a comparable example and appeal the warning - but it might not make you feel any better.

Well - I think after this week I will be leaving in the near future, but obviously I do want the warning off my file as it might impact on references/future work.

[only6times]

What's the score regarding claiming after being made redundant?
What will the bastards give me and what will be expected of me in terms of any redundancy pay?

Any input will be appreciated.

[reddebs]

What's the score regarding claiming after being made redundant?
What will the bastards give me and what will be expected of me in terms of any redundancy pay?

Any input will be appreciated.

You should have been given all the information you needed regarding this with your redundancy notice but as I remember when my hubby was made redundant in 2009 they don't take any redundancy pay into consideration for your unemployment claim.

If you've worked and paid NI contributions for the previous 12 months you're entitled to 26 weeks of JSA regardless of other household income or savings.  After that, you're on your own though.

Hope that helps and things haven't changed in that time.

[only6times]

You should have been given all the information you needed regarding this with your redundancy notice but as I remember when my hubby was made redundant in 2009 they don't take any redundancy pay into consideration for your unemployment claim.

If you've worked and paid NI contributions for the previous 12 months you're entitled to 26 weeks of JSA regardless of other household income or savings.  After that, you're on your own though.

Hope that helps and things haven't changed in that time.

Nice one. Should find out soon when we are getting binned so will try and get answers from the so called H.R "experts".

[butchersdog]

Advice needed folks. Story is, I'm leaving my current job. My boss declared his old company bankrupt in September and bought it/continued trading under another company name, transfering our employment to the new company. Wasn't told much about it at the time, other than for me and my mate (the other two guys there) we wouldn't notice any difference at all.

I have carried over 7 days holiday from last year (under the 'old' company). My boss has been evasive for weeks when I've been trying to get an answer from him about how many days holiday I have left in total (and so, how many days holiday I'll be paid for when I go). Today, he's suddenly said that any days accrued under the old company are void. I asked him why he didn't tell me this before the transfer as I would have taken a week and a half off, but he said he "didn't know himself", which I find hard to believe. Now saying there's "nothing he can do about it". I'm absolutely fuming, as it's a big financial hit, and we didn't even get any documentation when the company transfer occured, literally nothing, to give us any information on the process, and he conveniently didn't know/forgot to mention this during the transfer process. Absolute c*nts trick.

What I'd like to know is; is he right? I would have thought under TUPE your holidays transfer, or if not, you would have to be notified so you can take them before the TUPE occurs. Anyone have any knowledge on the subject?

Thanks in advance

[CraigDS]

Your best bet is giving ACAS a call and giving them all the details. A lot will depend on what exactly happened when it went tits up and how exactly it was purchased. If it was purchased as a going concern, which it sounds like it was given your employment continued as normal, then your previous rights should have been protected.

[campioni]

Under TUPE you are entitled to take any holidays you have accrued from this 'leave year' with your new employer. I'm not sure how that works with holidays carried over from a previous year but I would guess it doesn't hold the same entitlement.

[Giovanni]

I would guess your issue is going to be that they are carried over from a previous year.

[butchersdog]

I would guess your issue is going to be that they are carried over from a previous year.

Yeh, I would have thought he would have been obliged to tell me in some sort of document of the terms and conditions at the time though, so I could use them, rather than say "nothing will change" then suddenly tell me I'm losing all these days after the event.

[Ciara (with a capital "C")]

Currently going through TUPE in work, and we have been told that all holidays are carried over. Even though the new Company works on a different calendar, we are still protected.

Think your boss is talking out of his arse to be honest.

EDIT: Though we are officially a different Company, we haven't received official documentation, but are told to expect that in January, when our new job titles etc are sorted.

Who pays your wages? Old Company or new Company?

[butchersdog]

Currently going through TUPE in work, and we have been told that all holidays are carried over. Even though the new Company works on a different calendar, we are still protected.

Think your boss is talking out of his arse to be honest.

EDIT: Though we are officially a different Company, we haven't received official documentation, but are told to expect that in January, when our new job titles etc are sorted.

Who pays your wages? Old Company or new Company?

I think so too, would be amazed if you are allowed to take holidays off people without telling them/giving them an opportunity to take them. New company pays my wages.

Gonna call ACAS tonight Craig, cheers mate.

[SP]

Your boss sounds like an arse. TUPE is really difficult to do correctly. When I was TUPE'd they ballsed it up so I could have demanded that I be relocated expenses paid to India. Living in India on a London salary sounded rather good. This was a FTSE 100 company with experience. The chances are that you can find something sufficiently screwed up that just asking for the holiday paid is getting off lightly for him. Is there a Union involved? If so, they should be able to help.

[Alf]

I don't think your boss has got a leg to stand on in all honesty. At my place we've had people leave owing holiday and they just write it off. They can't tell after you've taken holiday which you believe you were entitled to, that your not entitled to it.

[-Willo-]

Hi, reviving this thread as its very good.

Been in my work place 2 years now, never been offered a general inflation rise on my wages, is this common?

[CraigDS]

Aye in general you’re not entitled to one unless it’s in your contract. A lot of private (non Govt) businesses haven’t seen rises for a while, or very small ones if so.

Gotta ask to get one though.

[Barneylfc∗]

Hi, reviving this thread as its very good.

Been in my work place 2 years now, never been offered a general inflation rise on my wages, is this common?

We've (Northern Ireland Civil Service) had a 1% payrise every year for the last 7 or 8 years. Fucking pathetic while the c*nts that are meant to be doing their job in Stormont get paid for fuck all. We're effectively having our pay cut every year.

[Elmo!]

Hi, reviving this thread as its very good.

Been in my work place 2 years now, never been offered a general inflation rise on my wages, is this common?

I went 4 years after the oil price downturn without getting a general pay rise.

[stevienash]

Hi all,

Was wondering if someone could offer me some advice?

I handed in my notice last Monday and I said I would work 4 weeks notice. It was not my intention to tell my boss where I was moving to. But he managed to worm it out of me. I said I was moving to a competitor.
The next day I am called into a meeting with my boss and his dad (it’s a family run company) it was not a nice meeting during which they handed me a solicitor letter saying I was in breach of my contract. The letter states that I am not allowed to start my new job for 6 months. But if I sign the letter it would be reduced to 3 months. After the meeting they said it would be best I left the company with immediate effect. They say in the letter I resigned with immediate effect which I didn’t
I have found the only contract issued to me dated 2008. In this contract there are no such clauses. So if they updated my contract with out me being aware of it can I held to it?

[CraigDS]

They would have needed to issue you, and you agree to, any changes to your contract during your employment there. I’d tell them you have only ever been issued with the one contract, in 2008, and ask them for evidence you were issued and agreed to new terms of employment that they are now trying to hold you to.