Topic: PL: Liverpool 0 v 1 Brighton Alzate 55’

[HeartAndSoul]

Weirdest thing for me was seeing Shaqiri start as the left-sided forward in the 433.  Don't think I've ever seen him play that position.

Totally agree. We play with pacy inside forwards. Our team seem to function like a machine. We need our 2 pacy inside forwards and our 2 full backs to be at their best for this machine to function. Take one of them out or try and alter with it without changing formation and we seem to come stuck a lot of the time.

[Bergersrightwingviews]

Ox/Origi/Shaq offer very little. Their time is up IMO. Their level is Wolves or Southampton.

Milner is best as a leader in the dressing room and to provide cover/rotation here and there or come on to shore a game up. Not start 3 games in 6 days at 35 and certainly not to unlock a defence at this stage in his career.

Have to agree with all that.

I think Keita has exhausted my patience now as well and I have always been a big fan of his.

[Bergersrightwingviews]

Last season we beat Brighton at home with 2 goals from Van Dijk, which doesn't tell the whole story of what happened yesterday but goes some way to showing the fine and fat margins of difference from losing someone like Van Dijk.

We offer almost no threat from set-pieces at the moment.  Missing all your CBs is a big part of that.  We are not that well stocked with big lads otherwise.

[killer-heels]

Have to agree with all that.

I think Keita has exhausted my patience now as well and I have always been a big fan of his.

I don't mind us carrying Keita as he is relatively young and has a high top level. But the point is we cannot carry him alongside the likes of Matip, Oxlade-Chamberlain and then ineffective players like Minamino, Shaqiri and Origi.

[jackh]

I don't mind us carrying Keita as he is relatively young and has a high top level. But the point is we cannot carry him alongside the likes of Matip, Oxlade-Chamberlain and then ineffective players like Minamino, Shaqiri and Origi.

I tend to feel like he doesn't need long to get back into it either.  He'll perform at his level from the off when he returns, whilst others can tend to take a while to get back to it.

[Bergersrightwingviews]

I don't mind us carrying Keita as he is relatively young and has a high top level. But the point is we cannot carry him alongside the likes of Matip, Oxlade-Chamberlain and then ineffective players like Minamino, Shaqiri and Origi.

That's a good point.  I would probably feel better about him if we had others fit and firing.

I really do think it is time to move Ox, Shaqiri and Origi on now.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

Set pieces have been one of our sources for goals, or for at least causing problems and creating opportunities. We've virtually have none of that now, and it's why most of our corners are short. That exacerbates the problem that we already have creatively because of the domino effect from the back to the front.

So if you take away the threat from the fullbacks, and the set pieces, you got less and less options  to create good chances.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

Shaqiri is at his best when he's coming on and being introduced to the game against tired legs.

[PatriotScouser]

I'd prefer to keep Ox than Keita.

Ox has shown more in an LFC shirt and can provide options in multiple of positions. He also one of the few players in our squad that is capable of taking a man on and shooting from distance. Plus he has a good affect on the morale of the squad.

I like Keita however apart from a few games after lockdown you have to say he's been a let down and whilst Ox is more injury prone it isn't like Naby is injuury free, he's only just behind Ox in being unavailable for games during his time here.

In an ideal world I'd move both on and sign a top class CAM like Maddison or Grealish however it is unrealistic that both will go and I'd prefer to we kept Ox. He'd also help with the homegrown status within the squad too.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

What OX has proved in the past doesn't really matter now, as there is a huge doubt that he can be the same player he was before the injury. Keita has had his injury problems of his own, but he's had far less serious injuries than Ox. Between the two, Keita is more useful in our current set up than Ox.

[Bird Bird Bird The Bird Is The Word]

We offer almost no threat from set-pieces at the moment.  Missing all your CBs is a big part of that.  We are not that well stocked with big lads otherwise.

Yep, it's a massive loss, especially handy in games like yesterday where getting that first goal in any way, shape, or form is usually enough to win or open the game up and score more.

Our threat at set pieces has been one of Klopp's biggest but quietest successes with this team's evolution. Especially as another tool to break teams down and break the deadlock.

Think its easily forgotten that we weren't always a free-scoring, intricate beauty of a team last season, we were effective to world class levels in all areas and sometimes we needed set piece goals to win games, and its another thing we've lost this season. It was the difference in this fixture last season and other games, thats a shortfall that is made up in other ways or simply remains a deficit.

[Dr Stu-Pid]

It's crazy that last night we were a couple of wing backs away from being able to name an 'Unavailable XI'^* that would have been good enough to compete for the title.



_{* I'm including Henderson as injuries meant that he was forced to play at CB and so wasn't available to play in midfield}

[killer-heels]

It's crazy that last night we were a couple of wing backs away from being able to name an 'Unavailable XI'^* that would have been good enough to compete for the title.



_{* I'm including Henderson as injuries meant that he was forced to play at CB and so wasn't available to play in midfield}

Henderson played.

[LallanaInPyjamas]

I'd prefer to keep Ox than Keita.

Ox has shown more in an LFC shirt and can provide options in multiple of positions. He also one of the few players in our squad that is capable of taking a man on and shooting from distance. Plus he has a good affect on the morale of the squad.

I like Keita however apart from a few games after lockdown you have to say he's been a let down and whilst Ox is more injury prone it isn't like Naby is injuury free, he's only just behind Ox in being unavailable for games during his time here.

In an ideal world I'd move both on and sign a top class CAM like Maddison or Grealish however it is unrealistic that both will go and I'd prefer to we kept Ox. He'd also help with the homegrown status within the squad too.

I mean I'm the resident Keita hater apparently but this is madness .... Keita is undeniably a huge asset when he's fit, Oxlade looks like a competition winner

[lukeb1981]

My main gripe was the lack of fight last night , you can get over a team playing bad but you go in for every 50/50 and fight for the ball .Gini was forced off the ball by Bissouma so many times, he wasnt the only one , we lost battles all over the field and let them come in to game .

[El Lobo]

Whatever Ox's latest injury was, I think knee again (?), its absolutely killed him off. Not sure what the solution is as its similar to Lallana and Sturridge. He's on big money here and its hard to see anyone taking a risk on him, and if he's here he'll need games to get to any sort of decent level. And by all accounts he's a good guy to have around. We can speculate all we want about selling him but in reality we're not just going to get a £30 million offer in the summer to take the problem away.

[BJ]

Leaving Anfield with 3 points is certainly not lazy and I would hardly say cowardly. It's having a gameplan, that demonstrably works, sticking to it and being rewarded. We are the ones that need to find answers to teams playing like this. Last year we were putting the bottom 10/11 sides to the sword for fun - like a knife through butter up to the watford game. Almost every defeat, or disappointing draw, since has been a carbon copy of that watford game to some extent. It's not good enough to label teams that play that way cowards. We've played like that plenty of times down the years.

You can’t pick my description of their tactics and apply it to the points gained. Leaving with 3 points was fortunate because they didn’t ‘earn’ those points they were gifted them.  It is 100% cowardly to go into a game to stop the opposition from scoring and with a hope that you can get something from the game rather than a clear plan to try and win the game yourself. 

The approach, mindset, mentality of ‘this is how we’re going to stop them’ rather than ‘this is how we’re going to win’ is what sets the big teams apart from the small.  Imagine as Liverpool fans you had to watch your teams main tactic be that.  It’s an approach I’ve never seen us take. Trying not to lose rather than trying to win is the very definition, in footballing terms, of being cowardly and lazy.  Both Burnley and Brighton left with the points but were fortunate in gaining them, not skilful.  I’ve got nothing against either of those sides but I can’t congratulate negative, anti-football. 

[Ratboy3G]

I don’t see why anyone thinks Brighton deserved to win as they hardly did anything. We didn’t deserve to win as we had practically no shots on target.

They scored a fortunate goal as the ball could have spun anywhere.

The problem with the goal was allowing the cross to come in. The inability to cut out the cross was almost identical to Utd’s first goal against us when we put no pressure on Rashford.

Brighton managed to have more total shots (13 to our 11) of which more were on target (4 to our 1). I know these stats are probably too simplistic for some, but on a basic level (football can be over complicated some times) that shows they deserved the win more than we did. We had the possession, but lacked the creativity. The sooner we can get crowds back at home and some of our injured players back the better.

[lukeb1981]

Whatever Ox's latest injury was, I think knee again (?), its absolutely killed him off. Not sure what the solution is as its similar to Lallana and Sturridge. He's on big money here and its hard to see anyone taking a risk on him, and if he's here he'll need games to get to any sort of decent level. And by all accounts he's a good guy to have around. We can speculate all we want about selling him but in reality we're not just going to get a £30 million offer in the summer to take the problem away.

Can see him leaving on a free , you might get a promoted side taking a punt on him, no established Premier league side will touch him . Unfortunate as he seems a decent bloke but his days at top level are done ,maybe a gig with Rangers or drop down a league might get him some game time.

[HeartAndSoul]

Whatever Ox's latest injury was, I think knee again (?), its absolutely killed him off. Not sure what the solution is as its similar to Lallana and Sturridge. He's on big money here and its hard to see anyone taking a risk on him, and if he's here he'll need games to get to any sort of decent level. And by all accounts he's a good guy to have around. We can speculate all we want about selling him but in reality we're not just going to get a £30 million offer in the summer to take the problem away.

I've got a feeling that if minamino does well on loan and gets himself adjusted to the league then he might either come back as a squad player or we'll ship him off for a profit. I would imagine the idea would be to then ship chamberlain out on loan to either get him back to form or to raise his value for the following season. If we were to sell him in the summer, cant really see any teams willing to take the risk on him

[lukeb1981]

You can’t pick my description of their tactics and apply it to the points gained. Leaving with 3 points was fortunate because they didn’t ‘earn’ those points they were gifted them.  It is 100% cowardly to go into a game to stop the opposition from scoring and with a hope that you can get something from the game rather than a clear plan to try and win the game yourself. 

The approach, mindset, mentality of ‘this is how we’re going to stop them’ rather than ‘this is how we’re going to win’ is what sets the big teams apart from the small.  Imagine as Liverpool fans you had to watch your teams main tactic be that.  It’s an approach I’ve never seen us take. Trying not to lose rather than trying to win is the very definition, in footballing terms, of being cowardly and lazy.  Both Burnley and Brighton left with the points but were fortunate in gaining them, not skilful.  I’ve got nothing against either of those sides but I can’t congratulate negative, anti-football.

Did you not watch us under Ged ?

[BJ]

Brighton managed to have more total shots (13 to our 11) of which more were on target (4 to our 1). I know these stats are probably too simplistic for some, but on a basic level (football can be over complicated some times) that shows they deserved the win more than we did. We had the possession, but lacked the creativity. The sooner we can get crowds back at home and some of our injured players back the better.

My way of looking at it is you deserve to win if you fight for it, whatever the written stats say.  Brighton didn’t fight for the win, neither did we, a draw would have been a better reflection of the game.

[Racer]

Sorry mods I didn’t know where to post this please feel free to move.

Dear Rawk Colleagues
It’s my son Jake’s 17 bday today and we are massive reds. He’s currently undergoing chemotherapy and tackling Cancer and stuck in hospital- if anybody has a little time to wish him happy birthday that would be fab. I have posted via Twitter the link below if you could reply https://twitter.com/danwalker1973/status/1357339885795905538?s=21

Many thanks Dan

[Sharado]

You can’t pick my description of their tactics and apply it to the points gained. Leaving with 3 points was fortunate because they didn’t ‘earn’ those points they were gifted them.  It is 100% cowardly to go into a game to stop the opposition from scoring and with a hope that you can get something from the game rather than a clear plan to try and win the game yourself. 

The approach, mindset, mentality of ‘this is how we’re going to stop them’ rather than ‘this is how we’re going to win’ is what sets the big teams apart from the small.  Imagine as Liverpool fans you had to watch your teams main tactic be that.  It’s an approach I’ve never seen us take. Trying not to lose rather than trying to win is the very definition, in footballing terms, of being cowardly and lazy.  Both Burnley and Brighton left with the points but were fortunate in gaining them, not skilful.  I’ve got nothing against either of those sides but I can’t congratulate negative, anti-football.

You didn't see us against Barcelona under Houllier? You didn't see us away to Juve, Inter, Chelsea and various others under Rafa [shit on a stick anyone]? I don't know how old you are so I'll assume you didn't but liverpool's modern history has seen PLENTY of dogged football bringing us results. Even away to Dortmund in Klopp's first season we were clearly playing a much more controlled game - it's what you do when your individuals are inferior to the other teams individuals - you work to become more than the sum of your parts, and tactics are a huge part of that.

Also - Brighton has more shots, shots on targer, shots in the box, big chance AND better XG in our games with them this season [thanks Dan Kennet for those stats]. That's not 'cowardly'.... by them at least.

[Clint Eastwood]

Whatever Ox's latest injury was, I think knee again (?), its absolutely killed him off. Not sure what the solution is as its similar to Lallana and Sturridge. He's on big money here and its hard to see anyone taking a risk on him, and if he's here he'll need games to get to any sort of decent level. And by all accounts he's a good guy to have around. We can speculate all we want about selling him but in reality we're not just going to get a £30 million offer in the summer to take the problem away.

It really has, so I find it really frustrating when we play him out wide. Like Shaqiri, he’s never played well there. Not once. When we go from Mane/Salah to Shaqiri/Oxlade-Chamberlain/Origi out wide we are significantly worse in attack.

He still has the attributes to do a job in a central position, but he was poor out wide before his knee injuries, even worse now.

[Ratboy3G]

My way of looking at it is you deserve to win if you fight for it, whatever the written stats say.  Brighton didn’t fight for the win, neither did we, a draw would have been a better reflection of the game.

A draw probably would have been fair, as there was quite a bit of luck with their goal, but I can't argue that they didn't deserve to win. They created more chances, worked our keeper more and kept us at bay with a pretty solid defensive performance.

[BJ]

Did you not watch us under Ged ?

I did and I don’t remember any anti-football tactics.  He completely changed the way we played after the treble which fans didn’t like but his aim was never to play not to lose which is what we’re seeing these days.

[JackWard33]

A draw probably would have been fair, as there was quite a bit of luck with their goal, but I can't argue that they didn't deserve to win. They created more chances, worked our keeper more and kept us at bay with a pretty solid defensive performance.

Yeah agree context matters too.... they're the away team and they probably don't have a player that would get in a fully fit Liverpool 18 but they can't be remotely accused of playing for a point. They looked far better organised than us as a spectator and produced a pretty dull game that they just about shaded
The onus is on us to claim the 3 points in these fixtures... can't see how we can feel the result wasn't justified last night and even if we had found a goal from somewhere to match the xg to the scoreline, or got the bounce of the ball and won 1-0 it wouldn't mean the performance was acceptable

[BJ]

You didn't see us against Barcelona under Houllier? You didn't see us away to Juve, Inter, Chelsea and various others under Rafa [shit on a stick anyone]? I don't know how old you are so I'll assume you didn't but liverpool's modern history has seen PLENTY of dogged football bringing us results. Even away to Dortmund in Klopp's first season we were clearly playing a much more controlled game - it's what you do when your individuals are inferior to the other teams individuals - you work to become more than the sum of your parts, and tactics are a huge part of that.

Also - Brighton has more shots, shots on targer, shots in the box, big chance AND better XG in our games with them this season [thanks Dan Kennet for those stats]. That's not 'cowardly'.... by them at least.

It’s not my intention to argue merely for the sake of it so I won’t carry this on .  We don’t agree with each other’s take on Brighton’s performance, that’s ok.  As for how old I am, I started supporting Liverpool when we were in the second division.  Those were the days. 

Btw I don’t know how you could look at my avatar and “assume” I never watched us under Houllier.

[Zimagic]

FT 0-1. Can’t think of many worse performances at Anfield in many a year. No controversy with officials, no worldie from the opposition keeper-
Just really really poor. 

Probably up there with Burnley from last week.

[Lee1-6Liv]

Sorry mods I didn’t know where to post this please feel free to move.

Dear Rawk Colleagues
It’s my son Jake’s 17 bday today and we are massive reds. He’s currently undergoing chemotherapy and tackling Cancer and stuck in hospital- if anybody has a little time to wish him happy birthday that would be fab. I have posted via Twitter the link below if you could reply https://twitter.com/danwalker1973/status/1357339885795905538?s=21

Many thanks Dan

Done mate.

[Fromola]

We offer almost no threat from set-pieces at the moment.  Missing all your CBs is a big part of that.  We are not that well stocked with big lads otherwise.

If we put a corner in the box, the keeper catches it or a defender clears it. If we take a short corner it's an Aspas tribute act. But when we defend a corner it's a free header for the attacking team. Set plays used to be a big thing for us to break teams down and get that first goal.

The two new lads are only around 6 foot, 6 foot 1 so won't give us that physical presence either.

[Fromola]

I did and I don’t remember any anti-football tactics.  He completely changed the way we played after the treble which fans didn’t like but his aim was never to play not to lose which is what we’re seeing these days.

That's a strange take. Ged was great for this club but the football was often extremely cautious. I remember we went to Barca and got a 0-0 draw and literally barely got passed the half way line.

I can't recall Klopp playing for a draw in any game in 5 years.

[lgvkarlos]

Sorry mods I didn’t know where to post this please feel free to move.

Dear Rawk Colleagues
It’s my son Jake’s 17 bday today and we are massive reds. He’s currently undergoing chemotherapy and tackling Cancer and stuck in hospital- if anybody has a little time to wish him happy birthday that would be fab. I have posted via Twitter the link below if you could reply https://twitter.com/danwalker1973/status/1357339885795905538?s=21

Many thanks Dan

Sorted, wishing you all the luck in the world for your son.

[Stubbins]

As for how old I am, I started supporting Liverpool when we were in the second division.  Those were the days. 

Second division ? Fucking hell, that's the second reference I've seen to the old Second Division in this topic, after Cormack Snr mentioned it earlier.

Those were the days indeed. Out of interest did you ever see Jack Witham play for us? I have a strange curiosity for knowing who on this forum might actually have seen him play in a red shirt. It's a select few ! Probably a question that'll be raised in 50 years time about those who actually witnessed Naby Keita playing for us.

[Caligula?]

You can’t pick my description of their tactics and apply it to the points gained. Leaving with 3 points was fortunate because they didn’t ‘earn’ those points they were gifted them.  It is 100% cowardly to go into a game to stop the opposition from scoring and with a hope that you can get something from the game rather than a clear plan to try and win the game yourself. 

The approach, mindset, mentality of ‘this is how we’re going to stop them’ rather than ‘this is how we’re going to win’ is what sets the big teams apart from the small.  Imagine as Liverpool fans you had to watch your teams main tactic be that.  It’s an approach I’ve never seen us take. Trying not to lose rather than trying to win is the very definition, in footballing terms, of being cowardly and lazy.  Both Burnley and Brighton left with the points but were fortunate in gaining them, not skilful.  I’ve got nothing against either of those sides but I can’t congratulate negative, anti-football.

What a load of absolute shite.

[kasperoff]

It really has, so I find it really frustrating when we play him out wide. Like Shaqiri, he’s never played well there. Not once. When we go from Mane/Salah to Shaqiri/Oxlade-Chamberlain/Origi out wide we are significantly worse in attack.

He still has the attributes to do a job in a central position, but he was poor out wide before his knee injuries, even worse now.

I think it's a bit early to write OX off. He's not had a run in the side yet to get his game legs back.

[Gainsbarre]

Midfield pretty poor. Two recycling midfielders (Milner and Gini) against a low block just can't work. Not enough dribbles, not enough physicality from us either. We simply lack physical presence on the field. With all the changes in the line-up at moments it was like these players don't have a clear idea what is their role on the field. Getting into each other, misplacing simple passes. Needs to be said, we also played some nice football, but for very brief moments and even then 1-2 of the players were not at the right level.

On current form of our attack .. I don't see how Jota is not starting every game. He's not overthinking it.. drive and instinct are what we seem devoid and that should be back with him.

[fowlermagic]

It's crazy that last night we were a couple of wing backs away from being able to name an 'Unavailable XI'^* that would have been good enough to compete for the title.



_{* I'm including Henderson as injuries meant that he was forced to play at CB and so wasn't available to play in midfield}

Totally agree as I cant be too troubled about our form when so many chess pieces are missing or are in a wrong position due to another player is injured. The spine of the team is just not there as without Alisson, Virgil, Gomez, Fabinho & Henderson in their preferred positions plus two of the three amigos misfiring plus Jota injured, the odds are stacked against us. We have been blessed with so few injuries over the past three years and more and it all came to the front this season. We just need to limp along and hope the new additions can come in for the end of season run, lads can go back to their preferred positions and Jota back into the mix. We wont win the league this season as consistency is impossible due to all the injuries but I still would not count ourselves from the CL. 

[killer-heels]

I think it's a bit early to write OX off. He's not had a run in the side yet to get his game legs back.

When he gets a run he gets injured.