Topic: PL: Liverpool 0 v 1 Brighton Alzate 55’

[Bergersrightwingviews]

Sigh.

Top 4 has to be the aim now.  The title is beyond us now.

Positives

Kelleher looks a very capable deputy.  He doesn't look like a kid thrown in at the deep end.  He looks like a perfectly competent PL GK which is amazing given where he is in his development.

We look fairly steady defensively.  Not as if we are giving up loads and loads of chances or shipping goals.  Things can surely only get better once we play with two actual CBs.

Far less aimless crossing.  We are at least attempting to play it on the deck in and around the box.  At times we play some nice one-touch stuff and look for one-twos, but nowhere near often enough.

Negatives

We really struggled to win the midfield battle at times.  They were playing through us far too easily at times.

We are not creating chances.  Look bereft of ideas at time.  There is no penetration, never seem to be enough bodies in the box and we are so, so predictable. Salah in particular needs to mix things up a bit.

Where is the width? Salah and TAA seem to be getting in each other's way too often.

Questions

What do Origi, AOC and Shaqir offer and is it enough?  Are they being used incorrectly or is their time up?

What is the best way to use Milner at this stage in his career?  Is he best kept to games where we need to win the midfield battle or can he contribute when we need to unpick the lock?

[mkferdy]

I have to admire how Brighton went about the task, it wasn't just sit back and soak hoping to nick something like West Brom / Burnley did they pressed at the right times, sat back in their shape condensing the middle of the pitch and they completely stifled our best out ball in Robinson. It was clever and unfortunately a really good blue print on how to approach us for lesser sides with the squad options we have at the moment.

We need to find a way of breaking down these sides, we are a short team so relying on set pieces is not the best way for me. The way we move the ball needs to be quicker, need runners from midfield running beyond the front 3 for me but I don't think there's a simple answer with the players we have at our disposal.

On a separate note was it just me that found having a 6ft7 wing back mental. Burns is huge 

[lgvkarlos]

One thing I'd like to see Klopp try, [not in the big matches but against sides like Brighton] is now play the new CB's together. It's a risk as they've never played together before and they are integrating into our side half way into the season, but having Henderson and Fabinho back in midfield allows us so much more flexibility, particularly as we can't properly rotate the midfield if they are playing at the back.

I would be happy with that and Tsimikas , it all seems like a slow bleed at the moment.

[liverbloke]

He's been really disappointing sadly, doesnt seem to have got to grips with the league or with the team. I'm sure it'll come as he's obviously an excellent player.

disappointing? maybe that's based on our own expectations and pedestal placing?

if he came without all the CL baggage then i think we'd be thinking that we've got a cracking player here

and playing in that midfield last night it would be easier for him herding cats

[Alan]

In my opinion only the keeper emerged with any kind of credit last night.

[Sharado]

One thing I'd like to see Klopp try, [not in the big matches but against sides like Brighton] is now play the new CB's together. It's a risk as they've never played together before and they are integrating into our side half way into the season, but having Henderson and Fabinho back in midfield allows us so much more flexibility, particularly as we can't properly rotate the midfield if they are playing at the back.

Having hendo and fab in midfield would also help whoever's at the back too, we're defensively far more sold and offensively far more of a threat with the pair of them in midfield.

[Robinred]

Both Klopp and Robbo gave interviews to the official site - and both were very honest about the performance. Both felt that the team lacked ‘freshness’ - Klopp’s term not mine. Both thought on balance Brighton deserved their win. Both were disappointed that we failed to muster one shot on target first half.

Klopp in mitigation cited the two recent trips to London and the subsequent lack of rest and preparation. Both thought this was a game that was likely to be decided by one goal, and so it proved. Mo’s early chance was uncharacteristically struck well over, and in the last, frantic 10 minutes we had lots of efforts blocked, but there were no clear misses that I recall.

Too many of our players look jaded - they’ve been to the well to frequently and without meaningful rest. Injuries are the major cause: 3 centrebacks, Jota, Keita, Fabinho. Last night, Mane. The result is too many games in a short time for some, rustiness in others who look off the pace or simply not up it.

I agree with those who think it very unlikely we’ll see no. 20 this season; top 4 is our target.

[El Lobo]

disappointing? maybe that's based on our own expectations and pedestal placing?

if he came without all the CL baggage then i think we'd be thinking that we've got a cracking player here

and playing in that midfield last night it would be easier for him herding cats

Aye, disappointing.

[lgvkarlos]

Both Klopp and Robbo gave interviews to the official site - and both were very honest about the performance. Both felt that the team lacked ‘freshness’ - Klopp’s term not mine. Both thought on balance Brighton deserved their win. Both were disappointed that we failed to muster one shot on target first half.

Klopp in mitigation cited the two recent trips to London and the subsequent lack of rest and preparation. Both thought this was a game that was likely to be decided by one goal, and so it proved. Mo’s early chance was uncharacteristically struck well over, and in the last, frantic 10 minutes we had lots of efforts blocked, but there were no clear misses that I recall.

Too many of our players look jaded - they’ve been to the well to frequently and without meaningful rest. Injuries are the major cause: 3 centrebacks, Jota, Keita, Fabinho. Last night, Mane. The result is too many games in a short time for some, rustiness in others who look off the pace or simply not up it.

I agree with those who think it very unlikely we’ll see no. 20 this season; top 4 is our target.

We've also missed  our youngsters that were sprinkled cleverely into games last season, Elliott, Hoever, Brewster would have all made a difference this season.

We've generally had a good amount of talented energetic youngsters to bring in, that sadly doesn't seem the case now.

It's just sods law that we let them go then get horrific injuries, the big one for me has been not replacing Lovren (a gamble) and then not getting a top CB in for the first day of the transfer window.(stupidity)

[BJ]

I have to admire how Brighton went about the task, it wasn't just sit back and soak hoping to nick something like West Brom / Burnley did they pressed at the right times, sat back in their shape condensing the middle of the pitch and they completely stifled our best out ball in Robinson. It was clever and unfortunately a really good blue print on how to approach us for lesser sides with the squad options we have at the moment.

We need to find a way of breaking down these sides, we are a short team so relying on set pieces is not the best way for me. The way we move the ball needs to be quicker, need runners from midfield running beyond the front 3 for me but I don't think there's a simple answer with the players we have at our disposal.

On a separate note was it just me that found having a 6ft7 wing back mental. Burns is huge 

This is what’s interesting about football, we all watch the same game and have different options on what we’ve just seen because  I don’t agree with any of that - other than we have a short team. 

Brighton didn’t do enough to win the game and neither did we.   Neither team created anything and a fluky goal wins it.

[Fromola]

Questions

What do Origi, AOC and Shaqir offer and is it enough?  Are they being used incorrectly or is their time up?

What is the best way to use Milner at this stage in his career?  Is he best kept to games where we need to win the midfield battle or can he contribute when we need to unpick the lock?

Ox/Origi/Shaq offer very little. Their time is up IMO. Their level is Wolves or Southampton.

Milner is best as a leader in the dressing room and to provide cover/rotation here and there or come on to shore a game up. Not start 3 games in 6 days at 35 and certainly not to unlock a defence at this stage in his career.

[mkferdy]

This is what’s interesting about football, we all watch the same game and have different options on what we’ve just seen because  I don’t agree with any of that - other than we have a short team. 

Brighton didn’t do enough to win the game and neither did we.   Neither team created anything and a fluky goal wins it.

Opinions mate  I felt Kelleher kept us in it in the second half.

[Geezer08]

So frustrating yesterday, the intensity and energy was alarmingly low. It is so frustrating that we make opposing players look like world beaters. Last night we made a big slow right footed left wingback look like a prime Roberto Carlos, and Maupay look like a prime Ronaldo! (Brazilian one)

[Always_A_Red]

Ox/Origi/Shaq offer very little. Their time is up IMO. Their level is Wolves or Southampton.

Milner is best as a leader in the dressing room and to provide cover/rotation here and there or come on to shore a game up. Not start 3 games in 6 days at 35 and certainly not to unlock a defence at this stage in his career.

I've been saying the same thing since summer 2019. The same for Keita, Minamino and Jones to a certain extent, although Jones is young and not at the level we need consistently yet. 

But my worry, is that we don't seem to have a pot to piss in. Scrambling around buying CB's for £1-2m. How are we going to offload the deadwood we have and then upgrade them? It doesn't seem realistic and we'll likely be having the same conversations about certain individuals in 12 months time.

[WoodenHanger]

He's been really disappointing sadly, doesnt seem to have got to grips with the league or with the team. I'm sure it'll come as he's obviously an excellent player.

Puts one on a plate for Firmino from the free kick, who then doesn't hit it first time, doesn't bring it down, hesitates at getting a shot away and it gets cleared.

If that ball is to Lewandowski it's a goal and we're talking about a remarkable assist.

In pretty much every game he's played in where we've dropped points he's the very last of our issues.

[Golyo]

There was nothing lucky about it. You defend like Trent does and there is a good chance there will be a goal when the ball comes across the goal.

There was no luck involved when Phillips flicks the ball onto Trossard and it bounces so little that Alzate's kick steers it into the net? It's another match where we were undoubtedly poor but losing instead of drawing is simply unlucky. Brighton didn't deserve the win more than us.

[El Lobo]

Puts one on a plate for Firmino from the free kick, who then doesn't hit it first time, doesn't bring it down, hesitates at getting a shot away and it gets cleared.

If that ball is to Lewandowski it's a goal and we're talking about a remarkable assist.

In pretty much every game he's played in where we've dropped points he's the very last of our issues.

He's not really an issue at all but he's still been disappointing

[Always_A_Red]

There was no luck involved when Phillips flicks the ball onto Trossard and it bounces so little that Alzate's kick steers it into the net? It's another match where we were undoubtedly poor but losing instead of drawing is simply unlucky. Brighton didn't deserve the win more than us.

Klopp said the better team won and I agree with him. For all our possession we did fuck all with it. Kelleher had to make 2 really good saves to stop it being embarrassing. How many saves did Sanchez make? How you think we deserved anything from the game I have no idea? 

[WoodenHanger]

He's not really an issue at all but he's still been disappointing

Depends on your understanding of what type of player he is.

Put 08-12 Xavi in this team he'd look how Thiago looks now. He needs movement around him and due to injures and form we've got none.

[JRed]

Building for next season starts now I reckon. We need to battle for top 4 as missing out on that would derail the progress made under Klopp. I think Klopp has to adapt as well now, we need to have a different way of playing. Yes, getting all injured players back will help enormously. The front three needs something, Jota breathed new life into the attack so hopefully will do the same again. I do think Firmino’s time is coming to an end with us. Also the back ups in Origi , Shaq and Ox are just not good enough. Keita is another Matip, good player but too injury prone. A few sales and incomings in the summer to strengthen the squad looks likely.

[Pistolero]

Puts one on a plate for Firmino from the free kick, who then doesn't hit it first time, doesn't bring it down, hesitates at getting a shot away and it gets cleared.

If that ball is to Lewandowski it's a goal and we're talking about a remarkable assist.

In pretty much every game he's played in where we've dropped points he's the very last of our issues.

Did my head in that, about the only time all night that the packed ranks of blue had been out-thought and completely bypassed and Firmino turned into Sean Dundee..

[Funky_Gibbons]

Klopp said the better team won and I agree with him. For all our possession we did fuck all with it. Kelleher had to make 2 really good saves to stop it being embarrassing. How many saves did Sanchez make? How you think we deserved anything from the game I have no idea?

I agree with this, as painful as a defeat that was, I also have to say I thought Brighton were really good. Defended well, made it difficult for us but also looked to use the ball, pass it around and attack us. 14 passes for their goal from defence to attack. 

[lgvkarlos]

Puts one on a plate for Firmino from the free kick, who then doesn't hit it first time, doesn't bring it down, hesitates at getting a shot away and it gets cleared.

If that ball is to Lewandowski it's a goal and we're talking about a remarkable assist.

In pretty much every game he's played in where we've dropped points he's the very last of our issues.

Couldn't agree more, look at his first games for us he looked unbelievable.
Problem is the whole team is flat and tired, there's no movement  or press. Not sure what player people thought they were getting, he's not f##king Messi, he's playing in a team that changes every game and has dropped off a cliff.

As you said he's hardly our main issue, wait until the front three have enough energy to press, sprint and control a ball again.
I've never seen our movement so poor under Klopp, it has to be fatigue.

[HeartAndSoul]

Is there any reason why we didn't stick to the diamond formation that we used against West ham? Feels very strange to go from playing so well and completely domination all areas of the game with that formation to going back to the turgid 433 against low blocks teams.

[kasperoff]

Ox/Origi/Shaq offer very little. Their time is up IMO. Their level is Wolves or Southampton.

Milner is best as a leader in the dressing room and to provide cover/rotation here and there or come on to shore a game up. Not start 3 games in 6 days at 35 and certainly not to unlock a defence at this stage in his career.

Ox is an interesting one. He has a higher level than this. It's just a question of whether he can reach it again after injuries.

They other two are pretty much playing par. Shaq is an interesting joker in the pack, but a bit too unpredictable, performance wise. Origi has probably never been good enough.

[Golyo]

Klopp said the better team won and I agree with him. For all our possession we did fuck all with it. Kelleher had to make 2 really good saves to stop it being embarrassing. How many saves did Sanchez make? How you think we deserved anything from the game I have no idea? 

I think a draw would have reflected the game more fairly. And I remember only one good save from Kelleher, the other was blasted into him, he had no chance to move an inch.
xG 1.1 vs 1.19 https://understat.com/match/14654

[Bird Bird Bird The Bird Is The Word]

Last season we beat Brighton at home with 2 goals from Van Dijk, which doesn't tell the whole story of what happened yesterday but goes some way to showing the fine and fat margins of difference from losing someone like Van Dijk.

We are going to be an extremely up and down team for the rest of the season, unless we have just as good luck with injuries after Jota returns as we've had bad luck in the first half of the season. We cannot afford for Jota, Mane, and Salah to miss another run of games, without them our entire team changes and how we can be contained becomes dramatically easier. It wouldn't be so bad if we also weren't missing our Van Dijk, Gomez, Matip, and Fabinho, but we are, so losing 1-0 at home to Brighton isn't an expected or inevitable result, but in the context it is an understandable one.

[BJ]

Opinions mate  I felt Kelleher kept us in it in the second half.

Yeh mate I know.   There’s a time and a place for saying “kept us in it” as well and I don’t think last night’s game merits that.  He made one great save but I thought that was first half so still a lot of playing time to go. I think we were always in it, we just didn’t have the energy or will, it seemed, to push ourselves the extra yard and grab a goal, or a couple, by any means necessary which has always been our m.o. 

 As others have said it feels like we’re watching the same game over and over with different coloured shirts.  No opposition want to actually play a game of football against us. 

[Sharado]

No opposition want to actually play a game of football against us.

The onus isn't on them to play a way that suits us. There are plenty of ways to skin a cat and all that matters is points on the board. Not only that, but Brighton last night had a plan, stuck to it and it worked - it was more than we had.

[kasperoff]

When I read this earlier I initially thought it was a wind up, the type of comment that makes my piss boil.
The likes of this & all the other shite spewed in the #20 thread shows the part of our support that is fucking embarrassing.
The type that fucked off at half time in Istanbul or those that didn't make it there turned the tv off at half time.
Some posters here recently have surprised me, I expected a bit more from..seem like the gloryhunting entitled brigade has infected them too.
Arsed?
Really?
Fucks sake lad.

It's a bizarre take that's for sure.

Almost as bad as the bellends from a few weeks back, laughing at those with honest concerns and calling them bedwetters, whilst the house was burning down around them. I'll never understand how a football fan can just brush of a defeat.

[Fromola]

Ox is an interesting one. He has a higher level than this. It's just a question of whether he can reach it again after injuries.

They other two are pretty much playing par. Shaq is an interesting joker in the pack, but a bit too unpredictable, performance wise. Origi has probably never been good enough.

The thing with Ox is it takes him a long time to get his fitness/confidence levels after an injury and then when he does get there (or before) there's another injury around the corner.

Shaq has never been a consistent performer anywhere but is very talented (and lacks pace). Origi has always been enigmatic but not really offered anything for over a year now.

[mkingdon]

Yes it is frustrating to lose another game in the pretty much the same way the others were lost. We have 80% possession, create little and the opposition get a scrappy goal from nowhere.

The title is gone now. 10 points off City (when they win their game in hand) is too much to claw back barring miracles.

But, you take VVD, Gomez, Allison, Mane, Keita, Fabinho and Matip out of the team and play games every three days, it can't be too surprising to drop points frequently.

Hopefully, we can get some players back fit, steady the ship and secure a top 4 spot and look to rebuild for next season.

[lgvkarlos]

Ox/Origi/Shaq offer very little. Their time is up IMO. Their level is Wolves or Southampton.

Milner is best as a leader in the dressing room and to provide cover/rotation here and there or come on to shore a game up. Not start 3 games in 6 days at 35 and certainly not to unlock a defence at this stage in his career.

If you took somebody who's never watched us play before this season, do you think Mane, Bobby and Salah would be standing out as consistant elite players?
Other than the odd game they've looked shadows of their previous seasons, and you could say that about most of our players.
It's got to be tiredness and fatigue, especially for our front three who until Jota came got no rest.
Shaq, Ox, Taki and Origi wouldn't be sitting on a bench if they were at the level of our front three, 99% of clubs have a drop off in standard to the bench.

Personally think Shaq and Taki are fine for our bench, Ox looks like an injury to far (but then we thought that about ings) would rather bring on a youngster than Origi now, and that's a sad thing to say after his past contributions.

[Fromola]

If you took somebody who's never watched us play before this season, do you think Mane, Bobby and Salah would be standing out as consistant elite players?
Other than the odd game they've looked shadows of their previous seasons, and you could say that about most of our players.
It's got to be tiredness and fatigue, especially for our front three who until Jota came got no rest.
Shaq, Ox, Taki and Origi wouldn't be sitting on a bench if they were at the level of our front three, 99% of clubs have a drop off in standard to the bench.

Personally think Shaq and Taki are fine for our bench, Ox looks like an injury to far (but then we thought that about ings) would rather bring on a youngster than Origi now, and that's a sad thing to say after his past contributions.

Bobby has not been great for a while to be honest. To have your number 9 go so long without a goal at Anfield is odd. I think 5 years of running himself into the ground caught up with him last season rather than this one, even though he still contributed to the team. This season has been more of a coninuation.

Mo has done well enough. He's clear at the top of the PL goal charts despite having 3 really good goals chalked off by dodgy VAR calls which were really splitting hairs. IMO Mane has not been quite at it since he was out with Covid. Losing Jota as that 4th option has killed us in attack. As Bobby doesn't score and the midfielders don't score - and Origi never scores - it's all on Mo or Mane now.

[BJ]

The onus isn't on them to play a way that suits us. There are plenty of ways to skin a cat and all that matters is points on the board. Not only that, but Brighton last night had a plan, stuck to it and it worked - it was more than we had.

Giving us a game doesn’t imply them playing a way that suits us. I’m not sure why that’s your first thought on how giving us a game would or should go.   I want to see a team play a game against us that involves more than parking the entire team behind the ball. I want to see an opponent with ambition of their own  to show how their light shines rather than how to snuff ours out.  It’s beyond boring watching the same setup or ‘game plan’ .  It’s cowardly and lazy from the opposition.  Yes some of them like last night are fortunate to be gifted a goal which only ends up being a winning goal due to our lack of whatever atm and not due to them being any smarter or more able.  One thing though, City will definitely give us a game. 

[tubby]

Is there any reason why we didn't stick to the diamond formation that we used against West ham? Feels very strange to go from playing so well and completely domination all areas of the game with that formation to going back to the turgid 433 against low blocks teams.

Weirdest thing for me was seeing Shaqiri start as the left-sided forward in the 433.  Don't think I've ever seen him play that position.

[BJ]

Weirdest thing for me was seeing Shaqiri start as the left-sided forward in the 433.  Don't think I've ever seen him play that position.

Maybe his brilliant assist from that side was on Klopp’s mind.

[amir87]

Weirdest thing for me was seeing Shaqiri start as the left-sided forward in the 433.  Don't think I've ever seen him play that position.

Probably for Stoke but they had skyscrapers up front.

[stockdam]

I don’t see why anyone thinks Brighton deserved to win as they hardly did anything. We didn’t deserve to win as we had practically no shots on target.

They scored a fortunate goal as the ball could have spun anywhere.

The problem with the goal was allowing the cross to come in. The inability to cut out the cross was almost identical to Utd’s first goal against us when we put no pressure on Rashford.

[Sharado]

Giving us a game doesn’t imply them playing a way that suits us. I’m not sure why that’s your first thought on how giving us a game would or should go.   I want to see a team play a game against us that involves more than parking the entire team behind the ball. I want to see an opponent with ambition of their own  to show how their light shines rather than how to snuff ours out.  It’s beyond boring watching the same setup or ‘game plan’ . It’s cowardly and lazy from the opposition. Yes some of them like last night are fortunate to be gifted a goal which only ends up being a winning goal due to our lack of whatever atm and not due to them being any smarter or more able.  One thing though, City will definitely give us a game.

Leaving Anfield with 3 points is certainly not lazy and I would hardly say cowardly. It's having a gameplan, that demonstrably works, sticking to it and being rewarded. We are the ones that need to find answers to teams playing like this. Last year we were putting the bottom 10/11 sides to the sword for fun - like a knife through butter up to the watford game. Almost every defeat, or disappointing draw, since has been a carbon copy of that watford game to some extent. It's not good enough to label teams that play that way cowards. We've played like that plenty of times down the years.