Topic: Liverpool 0 - Real Madrid 3 FT

[SuperStevieNicol]

We don't boo our players. He may not be flavour of the month but he's not the reason we have been playing shite. Put Sturridge alongside him, offer him some quality support and lets see what happens. We knew what he was like when we bought him so as opposed to trying to change him into a 'sterling' or 'sturridge' running into the channels that he's never going to do, how about we play to his strengths? I hold Brendan responsible for him more than Balotelli himself.

Agree, we don't boo our own. Last night showed our class off the pitch, applauding all the Madrid players and their fans. To be fair the Madrid fans seemed a good lot as well.

Anyway back to the point and I'm not taking the piss but what do you see as Balotelli's strengths? I've seen nothing yet to convince me he has any other than taking penalties and posturing like he's As good as Ronaldo or Messi.

[exiledintheUSA]

Watched the 'highlights' again over lunch, Adam Lallana is a cracking player, realy is.  Phillipe looks back to his best too.

[dumaten]

Third goal Johnson marking Benzema on the corner. The ball goes beyond the two of them and Johnson leaves Benzema in favour of taking up a position on the line. Benzema is free and slots home the returned header. Why did Johnson leave Benzema? Ball watching.

Johnson loves a goal line clearance, it often looks like getting to the goal line is his highest priority. He was even headed there when the freekick came in for QPR's first rather than marking Traore.

[Always_A_Red]

Agree, we don't boo our own. Last night showed our class off the pitch, applauding all the Madrid players and their fans. To be fair the Madrid fans seemed a good lot as well.

Anyway back to the point and I'm not taking the piss but what do you see as Balotelli's strengths? I've seen nothing yet to convince me he has any other than taking penalties and posturing like he's As good as Ronaldo or Messi.

I think he has an incredible shot on him. He has the ability to bag a goal out of nothing and win a match. He holds the ball up very well and brings people into play. As we saw last night in patches, he can get the ball out wide and he has a pretty fast burst of pace to take him past players. I think in the QPR game he registered the fastest speed on the pitch?

What he wont do though is chase balls down. He wont go pressing 2-3 players like Suarez used to do. He wont go running into the channels after a ball. He need s sturridge or sterling alongside him to do that so it creates the space for him to hurt teams with his attributes. That's the one surprise I've had with BR in that he doesn't try Borini or Sterling alongside him upfront for their movement.

You'll see a much different Balotelli once Sturridge comes back.

[Always_A_Red]

Johnson loves a goal line clearance, it often looks like getting to the goal line is his highest priority. He was even headed there when the freekick came in for QPR's first rather than marking Traore.

Is it that he wants to go to the post or is it that BR and the training staff have asked him to do this? If its Johnson's decision then why are the coaching staff not picking up on it and ensuring it doesn't happen again? If he is being asked to do it then its worrying as its costing us goals.

Either way, its not a good reflection on our manager or coaching staff.

[dumaten]

I think he has an incredible shot on him. He has the ability to bag a goal out of nothing and win a match. He holds the ball up very well and brings people into play. As we saw last night in patches, he can get the ball out wide and he has a pretty fast burst of pace to take him past players. I think in the QPR game he registered the fastest speed on the pitch?

What he wont do though is chase balls down. He wont go pressing 2-3 players like Suarez used to do. He wont go running into the channels after a ball. He need s sturridge or sterling alongside him to do that so it creates the space for him to hurt teams with his attributes. That's the one surprise I've had with BR in that he doesn't try Borini or Sterling alongside him upfront for their movement.

You'll see a much different Balotelli once Sturridge comes back.

He did try Borini up front with Balotelli against West Ham, they just let Borini run around a lot and focused on shutting down Gerrard and Balotelli. Borini doesn't have the quality that teams are worried about leaving him 1v1 with a defender, whereas you very much would be worried if it was Sturridge.

edit:

Is it that he wants to go to the post or is it that BR and the training staff have asked him to do this? If its Johnson's decision then why are the coaching staff not picking up on it and ensuring it doesn't happen again? If he is being asked to do it then its worrying as its costing us goals.

Either way, its not a good reflection on our manager or coaching staff.

I think he just doesn't have the conviction or desire to compete for the ball physically so he backs off and tries to block shots or make players attempt to dribble past him. Rodgers says he wants the players to compete hard for the ball, Johnson doesn't do that so I guess they think he's offering us enough in possession to make up for that? It's strange to me as the two most "liverpool" goals we've scored this season were the openers against southampton and spurs which both started with Henderson and Manquillo teaming up to win the ball high up the pitch. Johnson simply doesn't provide that.

[rickardinho1]

This is what I'd do in Madrid...

manquillo----------Skrtel-----------Lovren---------Moreno

-------------------Gerrard----------Henderson------------

-----------Sterling-------Coutinho--------Lallana--------

---------------------------Lambert-----------------------

I'd go with what we started te 2nd half with.

Lallana got a lot of joy on the left in the 2nd half, and we could hit them on the counter

[Always_A_Red]

I think he just doesn't have the conviction or desire to compete for the ball physically so he backs off and tries to block shots or make players attempt to dribble past him. Rodgers says he wants the players to compete hard for the ball, Johnson doesn't do that so I guess they think he's offering us enough in possession to make up for that? It's strange to me as the two most "liverpool" goals we've scored this season were the openers against southampton and spurs which both started with Henderson and Manquillo teaming up to win the ball high up the pitch. Johnson simply doesn't provide that.

And yet he keeps getting picked and the mistakes that you mention keep happening. So whilst Johnson can be lambasted for being poor and whatever else you want to say about him, you have to look at why the manager and transfer committee haven't addressed it in the summer and replaced him? Even at the very least bollock him and drop him for making the same mistakes? Why are the coaching team not training him, showing videos of the mistakes and ensuring they don't happen again? If he's that bad and it is Johnson, why is he being played? All comes back on the manager unfortunately.

[SuperStevieNicol]

I think he has an incredible shot on him. He has the ability to bag a goal out of nothing and win a match. He holds the ball up very well and brings people into play. As we saw last night in patches, he can get the ball out wide and he has a pretty fast burst of pace to take him past players. I think in the QPR game he registered the fastest speed on the pitch?

What he wont do though is chase balls down. He wont go pressing 2-3 players like Suarez used to do. He wont go running into the channels after a ball. He need s sturridge or sterling alongside him to do that so it creates the space for him to hurt teams with his attributes. That's the one surprise I've had with BR in that he doesn't try Borini or Sterling alongside him upfront for their movement.

You'll see a much different Balotelli once Sturridge comes back.

You are a bigger optimist than me! I really hope you are right. It's seems a hell of a long time ago that we were all so excited about signing Balotelli, it's gone pretty sour pretty quickly. What I will say is that as far as I am aware he's not caused 1 moment of bother since he signed yet is being crucified. It's overlooked that we actually spent more on Lovren and Markovic, neither of whom have done anything whatsoever to justify their fees. Mario is probably thinking why is it always me again.

[Always_A_Red]

You are a bigger optimist than me! I really hope you are right. It's seems a hell of a long time ago that we were all so excited about signing Balotelli, it's gone pretty sour pretty quickly. What I will say is that as far as I am aware he's not caused 1 moment of bother since he signed yet is being crucified. It's overlooked that we actually spent more on Lovren and Markovic, neither of whom have done anything whatsoever to justify their fees. Mario is probably thinking why is it always me again.

He's under the microscope for every little thing he does and there is even more pressure and expectation on him because Sturridge is injured, we lost Suarez and the transfer committee have failed to buy a world class striker to play alongside him. IF we had signed a player like Sanchez and then got Balotelli and Borini would have been sold, we wouldn't be in this scenario. It also doesn't help when your manager comes out and says that it was a gamble and he was bought as a last resort does it? Hardly makes him feel wanted. I do feel sorry for him as he's an easy scapegoat when in fact we should be looking at the bigger picture and find out why he is the only option we have after having a transfer budget of well over £100m.

[dumaten]

And yet he keeps getting picked and the mistakes that you mention keep happening. So whilst Johnson can be lambasted for being poor and whatever else you want to say about him, you have to look at why the manager and transfer committee haven't addressed it in the summer and replaced him? Even at the very least bollock him and drop him for making the same mistakes? Why are the coaching team not training him, showing videos of the mistakes and ensuring they don't happen again? If he's that bad and it is Johnson, why is he being played? All comes back on the manager unfortunately.

Yep, Rodgers preference for Johnson over Manquillo makes no sense to me, particularly given his quotes about what he wants from his players. Manquillo had probably his first poor game for us against WBA after playing 7 games in 3 weeks but even when he played badly he still offered competitiveness and aggression which Rodgers says he's after from his defenders. When Johnson's not providing anything in possession he's giving us pretty much nothing, I'd assumed Rodgers was just using the squad against QPR but that was a big WTF moment to see Johnson playing against Madrid. Rodgers can't really demand these attributes from his defenders if he doesn't pick the players who show them.

[steveeastend]

I swear I can remember Rodgers going on in endless speeches on something like death by football with playing pass and move at it's best as his main vision for the football here.

What happened? With players like Johnson, Henderson, Allen and Gerrard playing his usual long balls he won't be getting anywhere close.

[steveeastend]

As far as player attitudes go, I thought it was pretty shocking for the Captain to come out and say that "These are BONUS games that the team should go out and enjoy", in the press conference.

I am not refering to this statement but it pretty much fits the entire picture. Players feel save and are getting this game as a bonus... You know what Suarez would be thinking..

In fact, it should be the other way around. Players should be going beyond their limits to win these sort of games because they expect themselves to play there regularly. No wonder Suarez left..

[sideshowme]

for all the talk about the supposedly shameful shirt swapping, i bet rodgers is pretty happy that the back pages are full of pictures of pepe's bare back rather than mignolet attempting a slide tackle in the 6-yard box, or benzema heading in unopposed at the far post.

[El Lobo]

I am not refering to this statement but it pretty much fits the entire picture. Players feel save and are getting this game as a bonus... You know what Suarez would be thinking..

In fact, it should be the other way around. Players should be going beyond their limits to win these sort of games because they expect themselves to play there regularly. No wonder Suarez left..

Yup.

We know what a class player he was, but what is becoming evident at the moment is how important the other aspects of his game were. Even if we had the Suarez of his first eighteen months or so, I'd wager we'd be 2nd in the league and comfortable in our CL group. Excuse the pun, but there's no bite to the team.

I wouldn't be astonished if that's why Brendan thought Balotelli was worth the risk. Bit of a fighting maniac. He's been anything but.

[Always_A_Red]

Yup.

We know what a class player he was, but what is becoming evident at the moment is how important the other aspects of his game were. Even if we had the Suarez of his first eighteen months or so, I'd wager we'd be 2nd in the league and comfortable in our CL group. Excuse the pun, but there's no bite to the team.

I wouldn't be astonished if that's why Brendan thought Balotelli was worth the risk. Bit of a fighting maniac. He's been anything but.

In his defence. If he so much try's to tackle a player the opposition are hounding the ref to send him off. The media would love it if he got stuck in and bullied teams as they would use it as a stick against him.

Remember his first game against spurs he chased down lloris when he was given a pass back when balotelli ran across him to try and block it? Lloris's  follow through kicked him and Lloris went down like a sack of spuds, then bounced back up as if Balotelli had booted him. Then there's 5-6 players surrounding him, the fans are on his back and the ref will likely react.

He literally cannot win whatever he does.

[smitalfc]

He's under the microscope for every little thing he does and there is even more pressure and expectation on him because Sturridge is injured, we lost Suarez and the transfer committee have failed to buy a world class striker to play alongside him. IF we had signed a player like Sanchez and then got Balotelli and Borini would have been sold, we wouldn't be in this scenario. It also doesn't help when your manager comes out and says that it was a gamble and he was bought as a last resort does it? Hardly makes him feel wanted. I do feel sorry for him as he's an easy scapegoat when in fact we should be looking at the bigger picture and find out why he is the only option we have after having a transfer budget of well over £100m.

Couldn't agree more. Great post.

[Twelfth Man]

A dose of Ritalin might help his game.

[sideshowme]

If people are going to hang Mario out to dry over the shirt swap, I think we should also look at the likes of Johnson, smiling and chummying it up with Ronaldo.
Its not the same thing, but its not the attitude I want to see from our players in a 'must not lose' game.

but then we have to do the same thing to gerrard, for smiling and having a joke with ronaldo.  these things - players who are probably good friends sharing a joke in the heat of battle, swapping shirts - are total irrelevances.

[liverressie]

Last night highlighted a few things............Mignolet isn't a commanding goalkeeper, Lovren is all over the place, Johnson playing like he's on drugs and Balotelli is a total waste of space.

On a positive, Allen looked good, especially first half. Lallana made a big difference and Coutinho and Sterling both showed glimpses of real class and quality.

I agree for most part, except for comments on Allen and Johnson.

Johnson looked good yesterday. His defense is solid and has several critical tackle made on C.Ronaldo. He did well for coming up too and put a few good crosses that may result in goal.

For Allen, he worked very hard but, he is being outclassed by the opponents. He could not offer enough support to the attackers, lost several easy possessions and didnt do anythings creative. He did manage a good shot before the first half end, but there were not much to talk about him other than that.

[plskikme]

For Allen, he worked very hard but, he is being outclassed by the opponents. He could not offer enough support to the attackers, lost several easy possessions and didnt do anythings creative. He did manage a good shot before the first half end, but there were not much to talk about him other than that.

Yeah the quality of the opposition really showcased Allen's limitations. Several times he found himself in or around their box receiving a pass and he couldn't trap it or turn well enough to keep the move going. He got shrugged off the ball a bit too easily as well, he's much better nearer the midway line where there's more space and time to control or shield the ball with his body. If he can keep finding space in the opposition box as he does quite frequently and sharpen up his touches/instinct (could have taken Markovic's pass on his right first time) he'd really go up a level for me.

[MiserableP15]

So here's a positive.

We're 5th in the table despite playing like dogshit so far this season.

In this year of rebuilding post Suarez, and learning for our talented Young manager, it's all about 4th for me.

[steveeastend]

Yup.

We know what a class player he was, but what is becoming evident at the moment is how important the other aspects of his game were. Even if we had the Suarez of his first eighteen months or so, I'd wager we'd be 2nd in the league and comfortable in our CL group. Excuse the pun, but there's no bite to the team.

I wouldn't be astonished if that's why Brendan thought Balotelli was worth the risk. Bit of a fighting maniac. He's been anything but.

Agree. I think the influence of Suarez off the pitch is totally underestimated. The other players were scared of him, not really, but they knew he would do everything to win, really everything, and expected this from everybody else. In training and games.

[ThePoolMan]

In Madrid we just have to let go of the fear and just go for it. Attack them. We have already been trounced once by them - the worst that can happen is a hiding and we'll be going out anyway, so may as well go out with a bang and try to trouble them and knock the arrogance out of them a little.

[LFC when it suits]

Agree. I think the influence of Suarez off the pitch is totally underestimated. The other players were scared of him, not really, but they knew he would do everything to win, really everything, and expected this from everybody else. In training and games.

People are bringing up Suarez as if Sturridge hasn't missed virtually all of this season. We can cope without Suarez. We can cope without Sturridge. But tryign to cope without Sturridge and Suarez is a big problem. Yet despite this, we are still ahead of all our main competitiors bar Chelsea and City.

[Bangin Them In]

In Madrid we just have to let go of the fear and just go for it. Attack them. We have already been trounced once by them - the worst that can happen is a hiding and we'll be going out anyway, so may as well go out with a bang and try to trouble them and knock the arrogance out of them a little.

We won't go out losing twice to Madrid, results elsewhere should see us 2nd in the group

Just treat the game in Madrid as a bonus, although getting badly tonked because we over commit will kill any confidence we have left

[Hazell]

Hold on...there are people out there who think Glen Johnson had a good game last night?

I don't think he was as bad as is being made out, particularly in the first half when he stopped or held off a number of attacks down his side. Towards the end, he seemed to lose concentration a bit and made a couple of silly errors but overall he doesn't deserve the level of vitriol coming his way. But that's going to happen regardless of how he plays, some have already made their mind up about him (and other players) and feel he'll be playing shit regardless of what happens on the pitch.

[muyuu]

So here's a positive.

We're 5th in the table despite playing like dogshit so far this season.

In this year of rebuilding post Suarez, and learning for our talented Young manager, it's all about 4th for me.

You cannot call it rebuilding every time 1 single player leaves. Suarez was important but we were much better last year without him as well, and that paired with the money spent makes things a bit indefensible.

[AM76]

You cannot call it rebuilding every time 1 single player leaves. Suarez was important but we were much better last year without him as well, and that paired with the money spent makes things a bit indefensible.

Agreed. Have read people on here sayvwe are in transition again. Well surely that applies to every season when we buy and sell players. Need to get away from that as an excuse and say we just aren't performing well and have bought badly upfront in the close season.

[Phil M]

That beautiful Coutinho shot off the post goes in right on the stroke of half time and I honestly believe we'd have come out a different side second half and not saying we'd have drawn or managed an incredible comeback win but I don't think Madrid would have had quite such an easy time, saying that we did step it up second half but they are a well oiled machine and Kroos has been a terrific addition to that midfield after Xabi's departure.

[Mutton Geoff]

Agreed. Have read people on here sayvwe are in transition again. Well surely that applies to every season when we buy and sell players. Need to get away from that as an excuse and say we just aren't performing well and have bought badly upfront in the close season.

And yet we are fifth level points with fourth, so maybe the performances are not as exciting but the points are still keeping us in the right place, as for the rest if you dont think bedding in 8-9 players is not transition well frankly WTF is?