Topic: Round Table: QPR 2 - 3 Liverpool

[Hazell]

Well we were lucky to get the three points today, there's no doubt about that. The biggest thing to come out of that match was that defensively, we were awful. We have been pretty bad this season anyway but today we were worse than that. Zamora seemed to be winning everything in the first half and we just looked unsure of ourselves for the first 45 minutes. I don't think any of our defenders are inherently bad (they've shown that they aren't in the past) but at present they don't look like top division defenders. Whether that's a systematic thing or a lack of confidence or something else (and no doubt some will disagree with me about their ability) I'd be interested to know. It's probably a combination of these things though and they're probably linked as well.

We didn't really function well overall either. Credit to QPR, they pressed us well in the first half and we couldn't cope and as result, our passing was off and when we had the ball, we were too slow to do much with it.

Unsurprisingly, QPR couldn't keep up that pace in the second half and we were much better than the first and actually looked threatening. So whilst there were a lot of negatives today, there were also some positives:-

Gerrard played further forward today and he looked good during certain passages of play. I think we could use him up there more often.

Balotelli didn't have a great game (and particularly in the first half, there were a couple of occasions where he should have done better) but one thing that seemed more positive was that he was available centrally and was actually getting into the box and could have had a couple of goals in the second half. He should have had at least one but that miss to me was an indication of his confidence. He'll get it back though, hopefully soon.

Sterling seemed close to getting back to where he was earlier on this season as well.

And of course, we didn't give up. Sure we shouldn't have put ourselves in those positions to begin with but we could have settled for the draw but didn't.

And of course, there's big areas of improvement, that much is obvious but a victory is always great news.

[Hinesy]

Very good op. Thank you.
For me there is a confidence lacking and an intensity. It's almost a lack of taking responsibility and an unwillingness to take charge. But when the unfamiliarity of Gerrard upfront receded in the 2nd half everyone seemed to relax and fall back into their understood roles. Still I'll take 3 pts and a 2-3 scoreline when they did the same to us not that long ago.

[archie]

Very good op. Thank you.
For me there is a confidence lacking and an intensity. It's almost a lack of taking responsibility and an unwillingness to take charge.

I agree, we were second to every ball first half.
Lovren was brought in as a leader and organiser but he's got too much to worry about concentrating on his own game at the minute.

We were poor and everyone knows it.
Sterling continues to grow and Coutinho had an impact when he came on.
Can and Allen back in the squad so some positives.

I have to admit though that I am slightly concerned. These performances are becoming all too familiar especially at the back.

Mario - what to say?
Don't know whether to be angry at him or pity him.

Hard to believe but he looks low on confidence and some of his decision making is coming from this desperation imo.
One thing is for sure, he is a much better player than what is on show at the minute. Just hope he comes good sooner rather than later.

Wednesday would be handy, thanks Mario.

[Harinder]

Shout, scream, rant, rave.

Rejoice.

In the ground the fans sing but then stop. Our nerves and expectancy of being hit by a mistake leaves us without voice. We feel every mis-kick, every bobble, every second ball lost. Our pressing actions replaced by depressing actions. Each resounding chorus of "We are Liverpool" is almost to pick us up as much as it is to pick up the team.

And yet, we win. Three points. The first half seemed riddled with indecision. Worse than that, the wrong decision. Go left instead of right. Stay in and not push out. Every ball from QPR was straight over the top to Zamora for what seemed like an eternity. From Y5 Upper the biggest issue we face is space. We don't create it easily anymore and that's because the personnel that do it well aren't there any more. We look at individuals and react by pointing fingers

That will not work. You press as a team. One individual alone will never make a team. They can change the momentum of one but never ever be the root cause of it all. It's a team of 11. This is what leaves me personally bewildered at times. Today was one of those times. At Loftus Road I saw a first half and team that wanted something but didn't really look like they knew how. They knew how right at the end... maybe that's what we need to focus on a little? We once were lost but now we're found...

...maybe 

[Hinesy]

RT Up

[ArchieC]

Always had a feeling this might be a tricky game after that international break.  I'd give Mignolet the motm after saving us about 3 times as well as the post.
It really was a first half to forget but there was more encouragement after the half.  The fresh legs of Coutinho really made a difference at a point QPR were tiring.  That pass to Sterling right at the end for our 3rd reminded me of his pass to Neymar just last week against Japan.  Brilliant stuff.  Onwards and upwards redmen, really cant wait for the Real Madrid game although most are praying we don't get smashed.  We'll lift dont worry.

Could anybody also tell me what i can tell the knobheads who keep on saying we need defensive coaches please? Thanks

[LiverBirdKop]

Could anybody also tell me what i can tell the knobheads who keep on saying we need defensive coaches please? Thanks

Just tell them you disagree because the proof of how solid and impenetrable we are defensively is there on the pitch for all to see.

[kavah]

As just Sean said in the inmatch thread

It was 1-0 to Liverpool in the 87th minute.

Analyze that!

[Redshadow]

We are in the middle of a run here: two wins in a row, (best so far this season, right?) ...

Something just crossed my mind when watching our game last night. Lovren is undoubtedly a good Centre Half but he needs a keeper who can cover some ground behind him when pressing, keeper who is willing to go out to punch the ball or pluck the ball from the air, Mignolet is not that keeper. But, hey, what a shot-stopper he is! We just don't have the right combination there. Both are good, but not as teammates. Hopefully this can be settled between them, and Skrtel, to end our miserable defensive performance.

[ShayGuevara]

Where do I start?

First off, I didn't expect much if anything from the team selection. Johnson shouldn't be getting any playing time for this club anymore, I suggested for this game we should play him for what he offer's us going forward but what he does he even offer in that regard anymore he was awful in possession. Great performance from Mignolet however I think he won us points no doubt, crossing is definitely his weak point but he managed pretty well considering previous performances. Room to improve but much better.


Skrtel and Lovren hasn't/doesn't and will not work for us so we might as well end it now before we end up mid table struggling to catch up with the rest. We actually aren't that bad at clearing the first ball, what tends to happen though is the second or possibly third balls find their way into dangerous area's as our defensive line is all over the place. Skrtel retreat's, Johnson also, Lovren pushes forward same with Enrique it's a mess although it's no surprise. Both Skrtel and Johnson were signed to play in a system were they retreated and the side countered, that system also gave them a lot of cover with two dm's and wide players who were as reknowned for their defensive work as their offensive. Brendan signed defender's to suit his system Sakho, Lovren, Manquillo, Moreno we need to get them into the XI for a consistent run and stop changing things about. Enrique, Flanagan can offer cover at full back and unless there is an injury to either I'm not sure rotating CB's is necessary.

Another situation we've seen so many times before. Opposition press us with big physical CM's and the cause us real problem's. No problem we start passing more directly to our forward players like we did vs Southampton the past few meeting's, except the ball wasn't being released quick enough. The movement was poor ahead but it was clear after 5 - 10 mins Can, Henderson and Gerrard ahead wasn't working, we were very lucky to go in 0-0 at half time. Individually I don't blame any of the 3, I don't think Can played too bad he was tidy, got involved and am looking forward to a cameo again soon. Henderson struggled slightly in the deeper role, he's not as fluid in possession as Gerrard and he's better in a 4-3-3 more advanced. Gerrard as a no.10 was a terrible idea, we tried play him so often in more advanced roles in the early stages under Brendan and it didn't work, why try again? Second half was much better, Gerrard really helped us with possession even if we still struggled.

Up top Sterling was trying his best, Lallana also. Both are quality players who offer us guile and creativity that's needed post Suarez. Mario however is having it tough, his miss yesterday just reminded me of Torres the past few seasons. His confidence is massively down, hopefully he hasn't been reading on here but it seem's a lot of fans are wanting him to fail. Give him time, he's doing everything he can. He's never going to be Suarez but he has all the right attributes to be a perfect partner for Sturridge or down the line Origi. I just hope he gets a goal soon to boost his confidence as when a striker starts poorly like this it often end's badly.

Brendan, with good intention's decided to rotate. He felt Johnson and Enrique could stop QPR's attack and Emre Can had enough in the locker to help us control possession as well as offering the pyhsicality to match Sandro/Fer etc. He felt he could experiment with Gerrard and put him in a role which he looked good in a 15min cameo a few week's ago. He underestimated QPR and boy did he get it wrong.

On the other hand, he made the right substitutions and didn't leave it too late. He should of changed our midfield earlier but thankfully it didn't cost us. Sterling and Coutinho really stepped but and to score 2 winning goals after late equaliser's say's a lot about the threat we have still going forward. It might have been QPR but very few club's could of did what we did in those last few minutes, I hope this signals a change in Coutinhos form and we start seeing him back to his usual mesmerising best.

3 points (somehow), still close to City and ahead of some/all (depending on tonight) of our top 4 rivals I think we should be pretty pleased. I was pretty disapointed with how we were playing at this stage last season also and someone mentioned if we're in the top 4 playing this badly god know's how well we can do if it finally clicks. We'll improve as this season goes on, our attack could still end up hitting silly figures and doing their job if they can then who know's we could find ourselves in the title mix again. With our defence as it stands though there is no way we can expect to improve on last season, Brendan need's to sort it out quick if we have aspirations of challenging for the title which despite our shaky side I'm sure the club is still hopeful of. 



 

[Cpt_Reina]

The Skrtel/Lovren 'partnership' right now reminds me a lot of the Lucas/Gerrard 'partnership' of last season.

It clearly doesnt work, they don't suit each other but in spite of this (and a lack of options due to Sakho being injured currently) we're continuing to bang our heads against a brick wall.

It was only injury that split up Gerrard and Lucas in the end, I hope it doesnt come to that with Skrtel and Lovren and we're more proactive.

Sign's don't point to it however, with Skrtel resuming his place in the XI as soon as he came back from injury.

[penga]

With the extreme pressure from the opposition and not being able to really cope, I wonder if it would be a viable option to put Lambert on with Balotelli and tell him to do exactly what Zamora was doing to us? You look at the QPR line up Austin and Zamora 2 big and not very mobile to strikers but they caused us no end of problems. With our inability to build from the back without losing the ball eventually before any meaningful attack at least give the opposition centre halves a real physical battle as opposed to eventually passing back to Mignolet who has to then launch the ball long to Balotelli alone anyway with someone up his arse and having very little hope of holding the ball up while being a bit isolated.

So we could have him and Balo (also a big lad but not as strong). I know it's not exactly Rodger's style but what did he bring Lambert in for then? Perhaps in the upcoming game against Madrid, they are not used to facing someone with the physicality that Lambert might be able to provide in the Spanish league. It's about making yourself a real nuisance which Balotelli isn't doing by himself at the moment, he is strong but he doesn't seem to know how to use his body, lean in and battle the opposition CB like a true target man or even say Suarez. To be fair he is getting no change from the refs, a bit like the problem Carroll had here.

[Caffeine]

How do you rationalise that in a round-table? I'm not sure it's possible. Mad game.

Everyone will focus on Balotelli and the defence, and with good reason. Balo's selfishness in the first half drove me mad. And the comedy of errors at the back was actually hilarious. Johnson and Skrtel missing the ball, Mignolet coming out and completely misjudging a cross, Fer hitting the woodwork twice. I have no idea how we got away with that. I totally agree that individually our defenders are talented players, so what on earth is going on?

Surprised by the OP saying Gerrard was useful further forward, I can't remember him having many touches in the first half at all.

Overall what frustrated me most was the way we tried to rush everything. Instead of just maintaining possession and building momentum, we were launching early balls forward towards Lallana and Balotelli mainly and just gifting the ball straight back to QPR. It was a shambles.

Much better after the break, in midfield and attack anyway. Defensively, if anything, we were worse.

[paddysour]

I think the scariest thing about this performance was that the supposed easy fix of our defensive issues (moving Gerrard from DM) actually made us a whole lot worse.

I've seen QPR play this season, they are terrible going forward. And to make it worse, their more creative types where missing - Barton, Krancjar etc. They played Fer LW and Isla RW. That shouldn't have caused us any problem with two DMs in the middle for them.

Yet it was the worst defensively we have looked under Rodgers in my opinion. We couldn't deal with basic balls into Zamora. So with Gerrard out of the DM position, a load of Championship standard players destroyed us going forward. Mignolet needs the MOTM award for keeping us in it.

It wouldn't be so worrying if we were decent going forward ourselves, but we were a shambles without Gerrard there to get on the ball and dictate the tempo. Can and Henderson couldn't deal with the pressing so the ball ended up with our defenders, who then punted it long time and time again. The worst passing I have seen from us under Rodgers.

When Gerrard moved back to the DM role in the second half we were instantly so much better. We could actually get on the ball and get it into our attackers feet rather than punting it at their heads.

[Higgins79]

'Its a sign of a great side when you find a way to win when not playing well'. Lets hope there's some truth in this particular punditry classic.

Lets start with the defense first. The lack of a leader and a common, consistent method to our defensive play is still glaringly obvious. Indeed right now its easier to make the case that things have deteriorated, not improved, since last season. Our centre backs, regardless of personnel, seem to be able to make the most bog-standard attacks look like vintage Brazil as we stand off and revert to comical last minute blocks and undignified lunges. It should not be this difficult and we should have seen some sign of progress by now. Get a grip of your defense Brendan lad.

Granted, we played our second string full-backs yesterday and it showed. Johnson is not good at anything anymore. We often overlooked his poor positional play because he was great at overlapping and creating/scoring goals but he doesn't have that in his locker anymore. He's also not working hard enough. On the left, I don't think I've seen Enrique play that badly. All at sea defensively and offered nothing going forward. Without the amazing mobility of our front-men from last year, its especially important that the fullbacks are able to overlap, stretch the play and then have the quality to deliver. Only Moreno has provided that this season and boy did we miss him yesterday.

Midfield we got all arse-about-tit yesterday. Gerrard, although I'm sure in brief cameos towards the end of a game could work, doesn't have the movement to play at 10 anymore. Too static, poor pressing and too important to leave isolated. We improved as soon as he went to the base. There is a player in Can for sure, and games like yesterday will be great for his education. Henderson was unusually quiet. The positives were the second half subs of Allen and Coutinho. They brought an immediate improvement in our pressing and started fizzing the ball, creating tempo. We should never intentionally start without at least on of them in the side.

Up front... quite simply not good enough. Sterling continues to grow and in the second half looked like hurting them every time we could get him the ball early enough. Lallana was unusually quiet and struggled to find space. Mario is short on confidence and needs a goal badly. He also needs a partner. Saying that, he'll score a worldie on Wednesday.

Special mention to Mignolet. Could spare us some grey hairs if he came and claimed a cross or two, but he saved us with some fantastic saves yesterday.

As a team though I cant help but feel that something isn't quite right. We're not sparking, we seem flat and sluggish. Last season we played with freedom and enjoyment and this year it all seems so serious and too much like hard work. Granted, the pressure that comes with expectation can be debilitating but we have to get past this if we want to be a top side. I trust that Rodgers will find a way to get that flair and excitement back in our game. And to be fair, in the second half we started to break like the Liverpool of last year. Green shoots of recovery and all that.

What a win on Wednesday would do for confidence? Priceless.

[Card Cheat]

I really liked the look of Can yesterday. He seems to have unusually quick feet for a defensive midfielder, and the way he created space for himself at times when under pressure was Coutinho-like, just with a bit more physicality. Seems to have dropped some of the bulk he was carrying in pre-season too. I think if he and Allen were to start as a 2, or as the base of a 3, and with Manquillo as a steadier full back, the CBs and Mignolet wouldn't be quite as exposed.

Balotelli/Gerrard didn't work. Mario isn't a classic target man and Stevie's game is too one dimensional for him to be the player that buzzes around a target man. Lambert and one of Coutinho or Lallana would probably work better for that dynamic. We were much much better in the second half when Mario and Stevie were further apart. I'd like to see us shoehorn Lallana and Coutinho into the starting XI with both playing centrally, maybe in a 4-4-1-1, as they have the touch and close control we need there to hold onto the ball and compress the play a bit, as we seem too stretched too often.

I'm all for giving Balotelli a chance, but he was very poor again. Yes he could've scored twice, but if Dunne and Caulker hadn't put through their own net they were far more likely to have cleared the ball than missed it completely. His application is sporadic and to be honest, confusing.

He was unlucky with the flick towards the end, hats off to him for busting a nut to get to the near-post, and given the angle he was at and the direction he was running, like Welbeck's goal against Sweden in the Euro's, the flick was the sensible option and bore no resemblance to 'that' roulette at City which some have claimed.

Johnson was mixed. I prefer Manquillo because he's a much safer pair of hands, though Johnson is still brilliant at carrying the ball forward and moving the play up the pitch.

It wasn't our worst performance for years, in fact (ignoring the first half) bar the first five and last five minutes of the second half, we were pretty comfortable. Mignolet made some comfortable saves, in general I didn't feel like we were clinging on. Their equaliser came from an individual error (or two or three individual errors from the same player in the space of five seconds), from a player who is no longer our first choice left back, and when Flanno's fit, possibly third choice. And if it wasn't for that we would've likely won 1-0, or caught them on the break and scored a second.

[saoirse08]

Nothing to add to the analysis of the game in it's broader context. Crazy game against a desperately poor team. In all honesty, though, as poor as we were, I couldn't see us losing. That's how crazy this team is under Rodgers.

It reminded me of a number of games last season, in which we played poorly for (large!) parts of the game (and with a certain number 7 amongst our ranks too!) but eventually won. Stoke, Fulham & Cardiff away spring immediately to mind. There are probably many more. My point is - without Suarez and Sturridge - not that much as changed. There has been a change, obviously. All those goals for a a start. But the overall complexion of our performances, the wild swings between the sublime and the ridiculous, are still apparent in pretty much in all our matches so far this season. The only question is, will we ever hit the heights of our finest performances of last season, again this season? I'm thinking of those stand out performances against Arsenal, Everton, United, Man City, Spurs (both home and away). This season, only the home performance against the blues and our win away against Spurs have come close to our best form of last season.

I think finishing second last season, and being involved in the title run right up to the final two weeks or so, makes us forget that we did play poorly last season and win. It's what top four teams do, regularly. Last season was a rollacoaster of playing brilliantly and absolutely appallingly in the same game. Not as poor as yesterday, I'll admit. But we did play shit last season, and we shouldn't let our final league position cloud that fact.

Anyway, I'd just like to highlight Raheem Sterling's contribution yesterday. Serious question, was Suarez this good at 18/19? Although largely quiet, when we needed him, he stood up and performed. This is in the context of being pushed under a bus by that twat of an England manager, and all the media shite he's had to put up with this week, too. You can't fault his contribution to the the three points yesterday. Indeed, he was involved in all three goals. Would like to see him further forward and more central in the long run. Lovely player. And has got balls too. Take a bow, son.

Bring on Madrid!

[Latenight Surfer]

In terms of utter chaos and mayhem, jumping up and down and going crazy while watchign the game it is right at the top with most of the games.

Before the game started I was of the opinion that we will win this but we will work hard for it and work hard we did but only when we realized that it was their game to lose this one. Arry knew what he was up against and had the resources in his hands to give a tough fight and fight they did. But one thing any team cannot cope with is our counter-attack even when the likes of Sturridge is out from the team and Balotelli was short of ideas we could launch a good counter which surprisingly many times involved Gerrard along with the usual suspects and it was this trait of ours that unsettled QPR in the second half and only then did they lose the grip on the game, atleast for a short while and fortunately enough we capitalized and the rest is really hard to describe but we won.

Now anyone watching Liverpool would want to make a note that our defense lacks communication and command, especially in the air. Lovren might have won the ball on many occasions but how many times was it in the position where it mattered the most and how far was he able to clear it, of course we must cut some slack here as he was dealing with one of those players whose aerial ability is second to none on that pitch in Zamora but the real blame for that must come from our mid-field as Can was the only player left to deal with marauding runs made by QPR players too often and that allowed them to win the mid-field battle on most occasions and there by hoof it up for Zamora.

But then there was this player who was constantly booed by the crowd and maybe that gave him the energy to drive the team forward and win the game, Coutinho needs to be mentioned as well and thank god we won. I think teams who have a lot of physical presence will be taking note of this and doing what QPR did to us, but hasn't this been a case the last season as well? But back then we had the fluidity to counter and here that thing is lacking a bit and Balotelli has to take the blame for that in many ways and the lack of Sturridge isn't doing him any favors either.

At the end of the day a win is a win and in the past we have played a lot better than our opponents and lost maybe this will even it out a bit

[redmark]

I think the scariest thing about this performance was that the supposed easy fix of our defensive issues (moving Gerrard from DM) actually made us a whole lot worse.

Because it was always a lazy analysis at best; not least because for most of the season we haven't been playing with a single deeper midfielder (whether we call him DM or not). Our primary defensive shape has been a fairly standard 4231. In possession, one of the two CMs may drop in between the CBs, though we've not done it in every game, to the same degree or effect as last season.

Sone insist that the '2' is to protect Gerrard, and in doing so restricts Henderson. I think Gerrard has more work to do in the 2, than in the 1. The idea, I think, is the replacement of Suarez; we replace him with two attacking players, not one, as the 3 becomes a 3-1.

As a basic tactical shift, I'm undecided on whether it will work over the longer term. Yesterday certainly demonstrated that it's not as simple as "any two that doesn't include Gerrard", as some would have it. The Austin chance after about 10 minutes showed QPR walking through weak challenges from both Can and Henderson in turn. Under energetic pressure, the 2 can be bypassed, stretched and walked through.

I think it's being exposed though because of attacking dysfunction, some of it unfortunate - preseason injury to Lallana, early injury to Sturridge - and some of it looking horribly misjudged - not, perhaps, the purchase of Balotelli, but the lack of purchase of a similarly styled Sturridge backup. Throw in Coutinho's poor form for a few games (but improving), Markovic's nervousness and Lambert's struggles and the attack has been difficult to watch.

In theory, that is the shape to get the most of players like Sterling, Lallana, Coutinho and Markovic - and get three of them on the pitch. In transition, we should become a 343. But players need to be performing for it to become cohesive and fluent.

Defensively, I'm at a loss for what to say. Johnson ended up having a half decent game going forward, though that may be distorted by comparison with Enrique, who was truly dreadful at both ends. I have no idea what our 'system' is at set pieces. We don't mark very well, but we don't occupy space and attack the ball either. Our CBs constantly seem to be watching and/or grappling their man; until a fraction before he glides into unmarked space, at least. I think the much-maligned Mignolet is the least of our problems. I suspect we'd look better with Sakho, and I suspect we'd look better if we went full zonal and attacked the ball. But who knows...

[The Playmaker]

Well, it was what most of us would describe as a strange game with a flurry of goals during the last eight or nine minutes. The post match thread read, at times, as if we had lost it. We hadn’t. But a lot of people weren't happy. And as the final whistle blew Brendan Rodgers gave what appeared to be a very apologetic look to Harry Redknapp when they shook hands. In truth: a draw would have been a fair result. Both teams had good chances to score and at times both teams were wasteful. But to win a game, despite conceding the lead twice, was a huge relief. This was the type of fixture that appeared to be winnable. So to have dropped two points would have been disappointing.

I know that the opposition often has a pretty good chance of scoring against us. You know: it’s funny how you sometimes look at certain teams and you just don’t see a way of the opposition scoring against them; even though they might. Well, with us, it is the complete opposite feeling. I always feel like we’re going to concede. And more often than not we do. To not expect the opposition to have a chance throughout ninety minutes is unrealistic. But the problem, or the issue, is that we can be cut open with ease at times. It is almost like we have a soft centre. On top of that: we aren't very good at dealing with long balls or set-pieces. In particular, I dread it every time the opposition has a corner.

Part of the problem is that we're not that great without the ball. It can be easy to play through us at times and get chances. On top of individual mistakes I do think that the best form of defence for us is to attack. I think we struggle to play deep and I think the possession-based game that we thought we might see hasn't entirely been there. In most games, I feel like we are a basketball team - transitioning quickly from defence to attack. I always feel like we’re going to score and turn the game back in our favour.

Of course, this doesn’t always happen. Our attacking play hasn't been as good this season which is no surprise. Firstly, the sale of Luis Suarez was always going to be massive and secondly, the loss of Daniel Sturridge to injuries has hampered our play. The lack of clean sheets is pretty concerning though. I think we only managed ten last season overall and I doubt we'll better that by much this season. We have only kept one so far from the opening eight games.

Are we the only team with problems? Of course not. We are now two points ahead of Arsenal. They have salvaged a few points on the board in games that they probably shouldn’t have got anything from. They are one of the teams that we would expect to finish in the top four. And yes, they probably still will based on every year that Arsene Wenger has been at the club. But they’ve got problems too. Most teams have got challenges from within that they want to resolve. We aren't any different.

Now, back to the game. They pressed us very well but keeping up that intensity over the full course of a match is difficult. I know that they have a pretty narrow pitch but to sustain that level of pressing throughout isn't easy. It takes some doing. Both teams had good chances though. Keeping the score at 0-0 was important for us and I was surprised that they hadn't scored with the chances they had. On top of that, I have seen them play a few times this season and they've mostly been pretty average. But there is no doubt in my mind that they raised their game for us yesterday at home. The bigger issue for QPR is whether or not they can take points from the teams around them.

In terms of the second half, the opening goal was well worked. Plenty of people had switched off but Sterling and Johnson saw an opportunity and took it. Sterling made that happen with his quick thinking. If you are either Traore or Yun then you won't want to see that goal again. Both of them weren't even facing the ball. It is easy to blame Richard Dunne in that situation because he scored the own goal but they [Traore and Yun] allowed that move to happen in the first place because they switched off. With defending like that; it is no surprise to see QPR bottom of the table.

We almost held on for a 1-0 victory but it wasn't to be and in truth: it wasn't a surprise. All day long, the team had mostly failed to deal with long balls. Coutinho took some flak for not allowing them to take a quick free-kick. He was also booked in the process. We are not good at dealing with long balls, or corners but to blame Coutinho for what unfolded after is a bit unfair.

I think Gary Neville was a bit harsh on Jose Enrique though - in terms of criticising his header. If he could have generated more power on it then I'm sure he would have. The issue was in the follow-up to that. Enrique went rushing in and was easily beaten by Vargas. Vargas then provided a nice cross but I'm pretty sure Lovren got a touch on it, which directed it towards Austin. The header back from Austin was brilliant and Enrique didn't do enough to stop Vargas from scoring. So there was no doubt in my mind that we saw many errors in that goal.

Despite going to 1-1, the team responded well yet again. Gerrard provided an excellent pass for Coutinho. Again, I think we saw another deflection on that goal - but it was a neat and tidy finish from him. And Coutinho had been shown glimpses of what he can really do. But it wasn't over quite yet. QPR got a corner and from it Vargas scored again. Yet again, there was a deflection from Gerrard on the way in. But nobody cares about that. We hadn't defended it very well.

I think the team deserves some praise for showing character to get the win. Even with seconds on the clock and at 2-2; some of them advanced forward and took advantage on the break. Queens Park Rangers must be kicking themselves though because a draw would have been a decent result; all things considered. Dunne was cautious in bringing Caulker back from attacking the final set piece. The irony was that Caulker ended up providing the own goal.

The third goal, even though it was an own goal - was brilliant. The movement was fantastic and the speed at which we broke was excellent.  The simple, but effective movement of Gerrard to go wide allowed Coutinho to advance with the ball. I’m not sure which QPR player it was but they had a decision to make and thankfully they went with Gerrard. If Gerrard doesn’t make that run then Coutinho is probably closed down and doesn’t make that pass to Sterling. And what a pass it was.

And that’s what I like when we have someone making those runs because Coutinho can play those passes in behind. It allowed Sterling to run onto it and there was no way that Richard Dunne was going to catch him. The movement in our attacking play is absolutely crucial. You need players to be positive in their movement and take risks. Sterling did the right thing by passing it too. And it was good to see that he was looking for Balotelli.

In terms of Mario: he had an off day for sure with the chances missed. But he kept trying to do things and that's a real positive for me. But there is no doubt in my mind that Mario has to start scoring more goals. He isn't the main man for taking penalties and he won't always get free-kicks. A lot of his goals at Milan came from dead-ball situations. We need more goals from him from open-play. To say he hasn't been getting chances would be ridiculous. The service hasn't always been that bad.

[Broad Spectrum]

Performance, quite simply, just wasn't good enough. At times, we had a complete inability to build moves from the back, and this is where Sakho is sorely missed when he doesn't play. He has the bravery and composure to play a forward ground pass in between the tightest of gaps. Unsure as to whether he would have improved the team from a defensive point of view, but I can't imagine he would have done any worse than Skrtel and Lovren, who for some reason both forgot that they're 6 ft 2 in/6 ft 3 Eastern Europeans weighing over 80kgs. They both got bullied by Austin and Zamora (who themselves are fairly strong) and were made out to look like Adebayo Akinfenwa due to the incompetence of our centre halves.

One thing that really shocked me yesterday was Enrique's woeful performance. I appreciate the fact it was his first start in the league for around 12 months, but his inability to cut inside onto his right foot was truly concerning for a full-back playing at this level. Too many times with his back to play, he would just shift the ball onto his left foot and quite literally lump the ball down field. He showed absolutely no composure, and no intention of creating 2v1 situations down that left hand side against Isla and Onuoha. Genuinely, you wouldn't expect that kind of frequency of long ball clearances down the line from a full back in the Championship let alone the Prem.

As I was drafting this up, just found out that we appear to have recalled Brad Smith from his loan spell at Swindon. I think that in itself speaks volumes about Enriques performance yesterday.

With regards to Balotelli, I genuinely hate to agree with Alan Shearer, but I just think he needs to work that bit harder if he's not scoring. It's clearly visible so far in Lambert's career that he's not happy with his overall performances and you can tell he desperately wants to start contributing goals. His facial expressions alone so far tell a story of a frustrated man who's just desperate to make the supporters of his boyhood club happy. Balotelli naturally has this 'sulky' look even when he's playing well, but it seems to worsen considerably when he's not. On a more positive, I personally think we'll see a different Balotelli when Sturridge is back fit once again. I think we got a taster for that in the Spurs match in September, and I think Sturridge will show why he's the most important player in our team at this current time. We all seen his ability last season to create chances for team mates, and I think with Suarez now gone and the strong character that Sturridge is, he'll be the man to provide Balotelli the service he requires to start scoring goals.

[Crosby Nick]

Well, it was what most of us would describe as a strange game with a flurry of goals during the last eight or nine minutes.

Some great analysis there.

Enough will be written about the defending - I'd just like to pay a compliment to the way we broke for our second and third goals. There was a real commitment to get men forward (probably more down to the frustration of having seemingly chucked away 2 points) but both times the men in midfield picked out the right pass at the right time and for the first time in quite a while we looked back to our incisive best from last season.

Whether this is a one off remains to be seen but hopefully the players will take confidence from that and we can see some more of those great team goals in the next few weeks.

[GregCharrua]

I'll take the 3-points!

As wretched as we looked out there the team DID manage to get the ball into the net three times and once more than our opposition. That counts for a lot - maybe everything? - in the end. Come late April, I'm sure we'll be thankful to have taken the points in any way possible.

Gerrard
I've been posting on here about wanting to see Gerrard as the NO.10 after his brief cameo in the last match but before half-time I was thinking "so that's why Rodgers plays Gerrard deep"; he hadn't hardly touched the ball for 45 minutes, and one of our greatest assets was just useless out there. As the DM/Prilo/Whatever he can at least impose himself on the match. Maybe not always as perfectly as we'd like but at least in a manner that helps the squad. Once he went back to the deeper role I thought we immediately looked a little bit better - within the context of the game.

Clearances, Hoof-ball
If I wasn't supposed to be working right now I'd go look at some numbers. But as someone before me mentioned we would get to the ball for the first clearance but it'd get dumped into Henry or Sandro or Isla and get rushed back into our defensive third - and in the 3-4 second window our back four had seemed to lose track of each other, and their marks. There seemed a ton of confusion. Enrique played as if with a head injury the entire match, sending the ball out of play for no good reason, inviting players to wrestle him for the ball then getting forced to make a bad pass back to Lovren who got rid of it.

I don't think we were incapable of building up from the back -  I think we tried to rush things way to often. Perhaps this was a reflection of fear between players - fear to pass the ball out to Enrique for example. Surely Lovren was hesitant after 20 minutes on the pitch! And Lovren seemed to be over-eager to run out, but lets not forget he had Enrique at his side and Enrique was at his poorest.

We lacked patience. We got nervy with the physical assaults by Henry &co. I thought we had room to move the ball out even with Henry, Austin and Zamora "pressing" us up top... but so often we'd just go long or try something risky instead of moving the ball around.

Balotelli
Painful to watch. I hope he gets a goal soon. I think it will right him. He isn't as bad as he has looked for us so far.

Sterling, Coutinho, Migs
Mignolet made some crucial saves and though he has weaknesses in parts of his game shot-stopping isn't one, and on a day like today those skills saved our skin. Sterling was fantastic the entire game, but I'm afraid he's getting frustrated with the quality of the team's performance around him... Coutinho a much needed goal and a great performance once he came on. I think he is getting back to his best.

Henderson put in a solid shift as always. Johnson I thought was fine.

I wish I knew enough to understand why our central defenders look so nervous and get caught out so often. It can be purely individual errors/issues. What is the team's plan, strategy, etc? What are the instructions they are given? How is the team moving around them? You knew we weren't going to keep a clean sheet at 80 minutes.

Some nice posts in this thread, thanks everyone for taking the time!

[jdpapa3]

First of all, score effects need to be considered. While QPR had 3 really good chances in the first half and most would say that maybe they deserved to be 2-0 up, the whole game changes with one goal. QPR could maybe sit back. Liverpool may switch Gerrard earlier. And the butterfly effect can be drawn out forever. That's not an excuse, though. Liverpool were set up in a formation to fail with too many liabilities to cover for.

Before going any further, though, I think a major hurdle people are having is that they think QPR are horrific and this should have been an easy 3 points. Out of 10 games in the league in this matchday, Liverpool were the 5th heaviest favourites. Away difficulty, although somewhat respected, still doesn't get the proper amount of respect. Home advantage is shrinking, but is still significant enough to forecast for. They came out in a 4-4-2 for the first time of the season and any sort of advantage Rodgers thought he was getting by drilling Enrique and Johnson when the Spanish FBs were away were practically washed away instantly. Redknapp's players also came out like a battering ram, instead of the castrated cobra routine that they had been going with for their first seven.

I'm surprised Rodgers went with Gerrard behind Balotelli. Although it looked electric in the closing 15 minutes against WBA, Gerrard's issues playing in more advanced midfield roles were obvious time and again during the first 18 months of Rodgers. Maybe it can be a weapon at home to poor sides or a late game idea, but I wouldn't be thrilled to see it again. It's Gerrard, though, so he may get another shot at it the very next game and assist 4 goals and score 2 as we win 8-nil. He defies conventions. Henderson had a good game overall, but his first half was a bit confusing. Couldn't tell if he was on an even plane with Can and wasn't contributing a lot beyond that deep plane either. I thought this poor balance between the 3 of them was the source of our issues as we couldn't build any sort of possession and it ended up with our 2 CBs having to deal with 3 players.    Our ideas the first half seemed to begin and end at "Diagonal 40+ yard pass that's over or under-hit."

I think the narrative is at hysterical levels over Balotelli, but he didn't play well either. A striker is a tough position as you may only get the ball 10-15 times over 90 minutes in a dangerous spot, but his good decision rate yesterday was near 0%. He wasn't passing to the runners(he may not be able to pass well), dribbling into impossible shooting angles, and unleashing a shitload of tiny xG shots. It's not the worst idea to keep the defenders honest with a couple of long-range strikes, but it's starting to become a case where that's the only outcome.

Enrique and Johnson need to be mitigated. I'd go with a 3 Fullback rotation going forward with Manquillo and Moreno as first choice and Johnson filling in on either side. Enrique was the more withdrawn FB, which should theoretically be easier, but Enrique almost exclusively shaving points off of our season total is the type of stuff that keeps me up at night.

This "we didn't deserve 3 points" is for the birds. You just hope we come out in the green for the season as far as that is concerned. 365 days a year and Liverpool usually win 25 of those days and that's why yesterday was still boss. 

[rayted_are]

Emre Can vs QPR

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/E4100yiSupw" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/E4100yiSupw</a>

[Miltonred]

I think we were taken by surprise. QPR performed in a quite different way to their prior performances,in terms of energy and pressing and used Zamora very effectively.

I suspect we prepared for a different scenario.  if you look at the line-up with Can playing anchor, and a reversion to our older FB's this was a game that we approached as easily winnable. QPR decided Sunday was going to the be the first day of a new start to the season.

We didn't cope well with that and it was evident in the difficulty we had in maintaining any meaningful possession. Loftus Road is a small pitch and when players are not 100% sharp with the quick short passing and movement, turnovers happen.

QPR used those turnovers to hit us quick and long by using Zamoras prowess in  the air and as a hold up forward.  We struggled to stretch the pitch and continued to try and play chess with the ball - though when we did hit an outlet ball, Mario has struggled, as we can all see to do anything, meaningful with it.

Gerrard was pressed into a more forward attacking midfield position, after showing how much he still has to offer there against West Brom, but he did not see the ball often enough to make anything happen in the first half. 

We were desperately bereft of ideas going forward, and partly if not mostly because Mario is not often to be found where he should be found. He needs to occupy the central defenders and stay between the posts, instead he is coming into space that is not his, leaving no target in the middle.

The introduction of Coutinho was the game changer. The QPR energy levels had inevitably dropped and he was able to run at players and beat them then drive into open space. When Liverpools attacking players are on the front foot looking to drive into space, all kinds of stuff can happen, and it did. 

Thinking a minute about the two own goals. On both occasions the ball was headed for Mario who was right between the sticks, where he should be creating panic and indecision. Both goals came from our players running into open space and catching QPR in the transition, disorganised and needing to move quickly.

Regarding the two goals we let in. First of all Mignolet had his best shot stopping game of the season, so credit is due to him. A lack of concentration causes Enrique to allow Vargas to run across him while he is ball watching - very poor. The ball going between Allens legs, is a very unfortunate. You have a fraction of a second to get your feet organised in that situation and he got it wrong.

The bigger issue is not being able to shut a poor team down when leading.

Positives for Wednesday?  Real will not play long balls, they will look to work it, and use their pace on the counter. I expect to see Manquillo and Moreno. We need to have Allen and Coutinho on the field, there will be spaces and holding possession and turning it into meaningful attacking play will be key.

[wordroam]

So I missed most of the first half therefore from what I've read inevitably I'm going to be more positive.

I though Sterling was just brilliant. I mean Suarez's crazy goals excepted, he's approaching world class. Driving attacks, seemingly able to go anywhere he wants with the ball, soon he will be panicking teams by just turning up.

Couthino looked like he meant business and looked really hungry, some of his passes were up to the best of last season.

Yes, crazy crazy last 10 minutes, but even at 2-2 with no time left I thought they were in with a chance - we had been gradually taking the game by the scruff of the neck. Quite possible that was the tactical idea, to pounce when QPR inevitably trailed off.

On the down side we simply did not have the clinical killer instinct we had last season. The goals while superbly worked were still a little flukey. Ballotelli is going though one of those 'strikers blocks'

Shades of in particular the season before last also, when teams just seemed to launch balls through us  - if the second half was better clearly the 1st half is going to be grim watching when I get round to it...

[Fromola]

Henderson had a good game? No, he didn't. In the first half, he was poor both in attack and defensively. Whoever it was that instructed him to attempt long diagonal balls a la Gerrard needs a serious rethink. The point is to adjust the approach, not to substitute Henderson for Gerrard further back in central midfield and hope for the best.

It's awkward in midfield because we try a lot of things but we need to know what works an what doesn't. Midfield 2 doesn't work. Gerrard advanced in midfield will only work off the bench unless it's a game we can really dominate. We're used to Henderson buzzing about being Gerrard's legs but he only works well in front of Gerrard. Behind or alongside him it doesn't work.

The only thing that's really worked is a midfield diamond with Henderson and Allen either side of Gerrard, or a midfield three with Gerrard or Lucas behind Henderson and Allen. Basically we need more of a midfield three, a midfield two just doesn't work with what we have. It seems to always take Rodgers half a season to figure this out. It was the same last season where we plodded along with the Gerrard/Lucas midfield until Gerrard got injured.

[richmiller1]

The Skrtel/Lovren 'partnership' right now reminds me a lot of the Lucas/Gerrard 'partnership' of last season.

It clearly doesnt work, they don't suit each other but in spite of this (and a lack of options due to Sakho being injured currently) we're continuing to bang our heads against a brick wall.

It was only injury that split up Gerrard and Lucas in the end, I hope it doesnt come to that with Skrtel and Lovren and we're more proactive.

Sign's don't point to it however, with Skrtel resuming his place in the XI as soon as he came back from injury.

I find it difficult to see past this issue when watching us at the moment.

Yes, the return of 'yesterdays' full backs had predictable results but I can't see those two starting together again unless Rodgers hand is forced.

Skrtel and Lovren look here to stay though and it just can't end well.

I've still not seen enough of Lovren to be in any way confident as to how he will settle. Fair to say he's not looked all that special since he arrived but I can at least say I vastly prefer his approach to defending to that of Skrtel.

There was a moment in the second half where Skrtel's man had a chance to take two touches with his head/ chest and still had time to hook the ball into the middle without being put under any real pressure despite Skrtel being three yards away. Skrtel just doing his whole usual wait and see what happens then react type thing. That's to go with his other trademark move, the patented 'grab the man and make no effort to win the ball'. I'm just sick of watching it. So many years of reactionary defending. He'll never change and it will never sit comfortably in this team.

 

[leivapool]

I'm often accused of having Lucas tinted glasses,  but even given that,  I found the decision to play a clearly not match fit Can,  a player who'd never started a league game,  a player who we subsequently saw not only  clearly struggle  with the pace of the game but with the actual  role within the team,  over Lucas,  a fit and proven premier league player absolutely bizarre.  No matter what metric is used,  even including the old fashioned metric of using my eyes,  on not one of them was Can better than Lucas would have been,  on most he was much worse, and his inclusion disrupted our whole team balance.  Whilst not perfect Lucas has never let us down playing as DM,  and he clearly understand the role massively more than Can does at this present time.

i don't think it's really on Can,  he's young and will need time to adapt,  but if you're not going to play SG in the holding role then Lucas is streets ahead of any others in our squad at the moment for that role.

One can only assume Lucas is so out of favour that BR thinks it's OK to play an inferior player  than Lucas  just to prove some sort of point,  becuase if the team was picked on merit Lucas should have been selected.  The game was crying out for a player to protect the back 4 and start our passing tempo.

[scumbagcollege]

I'm often accused of having Lucas tinted glasses,  but even given that,  I found the decision to play a clearly not match fit Can,  a player who'd never started a league game,  a player who we subsequently saw not only  clearly struggle  with the pace of the game but with the actual  role within the team,  over Lucas,  a fit and proven premier league player absolutely bizarre.  No matter what metric is used,  even including the old fashioned metric of using my eyes,  on not one of them was Can better than Lucas would have been,  on most he was much worse, and his inclusion disrupted our whole team balance.  Whilst not perfect Lucas has never let us down playing as DM,  and he clearly understand the role massively more than Can does at this present time.

i don't think it's really on Can,  he's young and will need time to adapt,  but if you're not going to play SG in the holding role then Lucas is streets ahead of any others in our squad at the moment for that role.

One can only assume Lucas is so out of favour that BR thinks it's OK to play an inferior player  than Lucas  just to prove some sort of point,  becuase if the team was picked on merit Lucas should have been selected.  The game was crying out for a player to protect the back 4 and start our passing tempo.

Maybe Brendan was trying to ease Emre into the position (and there wont be many better opportunities than QPR!) Hopefully Brendan was resting Lucas (and Allen) for the Madrid game.

[bodhisattva]

I think not having that out ball into the channels or over the top is really hurting our play at the moment, im starting to think our best replacement for Suarez is Sterling either as a false 9 or alongside either Balotelli or Lambert, so many times last season we were able to relieve defensive pressure with that pass into the channels for Suarez or Sturridge who have that pace and movement, we have no one able to do that at the moment and its meant our defense has come under more pressure and we're not dealing with it well.

At the back we don't have many options at the moment, i think the 2 young fullbacks are much better than Johnson and Enrique although i understand they're going to have to be rotated at times due to the way they play but i think they've earned the right to be first choice at the back its basically 2 from 3 and personally id prefer Sakho plus one other but it seems like the manager sees it differently.

At least with Allen and Can back we have more midfield options and for that reason id be inclinded to try Sterling as a forward with Coutinho and Lallana capable of playing as a #10 and Markovic capable of playing out wide, i think we lose less doing that than continuing with a struggling Balotelli and at least Sterling offers us a threat in behind and his movement will create space for others.

[wemmick]

I think not having that out ball into the channels or over the top is really hurting our play at the moment, im starting to think our best replacement for Suarez is Sterling either as a false 9 or alongside either Balotelli or Lambert, so many times last season we were able to relieve defensive pressure with that pass into the channels for Suarez or Sturridge who have that pace and movement, we have no one able to do that at the moment and its meant our defense has come under more pressure and we're not dealing with it well.

I agree with you in principle, mate, but I reckon Balotelli can actually be a terrific outlet. He dribbled deep into their box from midfield twice yesterday to put them under pressure. He can dribble really well at pace, but he just doesn't do it enough. If he would turn his defender more often with his first touch, I think Balotelli would be a very apt outlet. Suarez was a genius at turning his defender with his first touch from whatever pass came his way. I don't know if Mario can do it as well as Luis, but he can do it well enough to terrorize his marker. I know it's in his locker.

BR is changing the way Mario plays, so it might get worse before it's better, but I think Balotelli regularly turning his marker and haunting the box could be just as effective as the lightening movement of Suarez or Sturridge. 

[GregCharrua]

I agree with you in principle, mate, but I reckon Balotelli can actually be a terrific outlet. He dribbled deep into their box from midfield twice yesterday to put them under pressure. He can dribble really well at pace, but he just doesn't do it enough. If he would turn his defender more often with his first touch, I think Balotelli would be a very apt outlet. Suarez was a genius at turning his defender with his first touch from whatever pass came his way. I don't know if Mario can do it as well as Louis, but he can do it well enough to terrorize his marker. I know it's in his locker.

BR is changing the way Mario plays, so it might get worse before it's better, but I think Balotelli regularly turning his marker and haunting the box could be just as effective as the lightening movement of Suarez or Sturridge.

It's understandable the fan's reactions, hoping for an instant hit when Mario was signed. But it's still so very early to say it was a bad transfer or a failed project yet. Lots of football to go and I've seen nothing damning and plenty of potential and reason to choose an optimistic hope for the future.

[Bolrick]

I think not having that out ball into the channels or over the top is really hurting our play at the moment, im starting to think our best replacement for Suarez is Sterling either as a false 9 or alongside either Balotelli or Lambert, ........

I also have a sneaky feeling that Sterling really has all the tools to become Suarez "Mark 2". Was Suarez better than Sterling when he was 19 yrs old ? I do think once Sterling becomes more composed he will become an awesome striker with his pace, mobility and trickery.

Another player whom i think we could use in a suarez role is lallana. He has good close control like suarez, like to put in a shift by pressing the opposition defence/midfield, seems to finish well when in the box....
 

[steveeastend]

I'm often accused of having Lucas tinted glasses,  but even given that,  I found the decision to play a clearly not match fit Can,  a player who'd never started a league game,  a player who we subsequently saw not only  clearly struggle  with the pace of the game but with the actual  role within the team,  over Lucas,  a fit and proven premier league player absolutely bizarre.  No matter what metric is used,  even including the old fashioned metric of using my eyes,  on not one of them was Can better than Lucas would have been,  on most he was much worse, and his inclusion disrupted our whole team balance.  Whilst not perfect Lucas has never let us down playing as DM,  and he clearly understand the role massively more than Can does at this present time.

i don't think it's really on Can,  he's young and will need time to adapt,  but if you're not going to play SG in the holding role then Lucas is streets ahead of any others in our squad at the moment for that role.

One can only assume Lucas is so out of favour that BR thinks it's OK to play an inferior player  than Lucas  just to prove some sort of point,  becuase if the team was picked on merit Lucas should have been selected.  The game was crying out for a player to protect the back 4 and start our passing tempo.

I totally agree. I think it's because Lucas wanted to leave in summer at all costs and probably still wants to in winter, which puts him out of favour, there cannot be any other reason for that.

But he makes a mistake here, why not playing Lucas and giving the others time to settle in? There is a lot to learn from him, at the moment, we are struggling to replace Lucas in holding midfield. Besides that there is no benefit in selling a player without substantial game time for getting a reasonable fee.

But as somebody else wrote, maybe he was rested for the Madrid game.. I doubt it though..

[deadsetred]

I think its worth noting one reason why we may find ourselves ahead of United and Arsenal at this point.

What we do seem to have carried over from last season is the belief that we can come back from an undesirable position and win, regardless of how were playing.

Arsenal and United have lacked this so far, but we have demonstrated it multiple times, and again against QPR.

Now, we simply need to start playing well!

[GrkStav]

I would like to highlight the complete lack of consistency demonstrated by the referee, Phil Dowd, with regard to giving yellow cards for cynical fouls, manhandling and shirt-pulling in open-play.

Off the top of my head, two instances stand out.

1 is when Can is breaking forward on the counter and the QPR player blatantly attempts to hold him back and disrupt his forward movement and pass by tugging his shirt. Dowd plays advantage (rightly I suppose) but does not go back and give a yellow card after the next 'dead ball'.

2 is when Enrique was manhandled from behind and had his shirt pulled. Free-kick was given after the advantage did not materialize but no yellow card.

[SamAteTheRedAcid]

Arsenal

They've hauled themselves back into games a couple of times, got a draw from behind at the weekend, and came back from 2-0 down at Goodison for a draw as well. Not sure you can level a lack of spirit at them in that regard.

I would like to highlight the complete lack of consistency demonstrated by the referee, Phil Dowd, with regard to giving yellow cards for cynical fouls, manhandling and shirt-pulling in open-play.

Didn't think Dowd had a great game either. He did seem to want to let it flow but there were a few things he let go too easily for my liking.

I'm often accused of having Lucas tinted glasses,  but even given that,  I found the decision to play a clearly not match fit Can,  a player who'd never started a league game,  a player who we subsequently saw not only  clearly struggle  with the pace of the game but with the actual  role within the team,  over Lucas,  a fit and proven premier league player absolutely bizarre.

As far as Can starting ahead of Lucas, well he is here to play not warm the bench and he has to get some game time sooner or later, QPR are the worst team in the league so it's not that bad an idea to have given him a go. Lucas is obviously on the way out of Anfield at some point in the near future so playing him isn't going to help us longterm.

[GrkStav]

As far as Can starting ahead of Lucas, well he is here to play not warm the bench and he has to get some game time sooner or later, QPR are the worst team in the league so it's not that bad an idea to have given him a go. Lucas is obviously on the way out of Anfield at some point in the near future so playing him isn't going to help us longterm.

Let's assume, for the sake of argument that "Lucas is obviously on the way out of Anfield at some point in the near future": how does it make any rational sense not to use him (cynically, the rational choice would be to 'use him excessively') knowing that he'll be gone soon (and probably not for a whole lot of money, either) whilst paying him his full, senior squad member, wages?

It's as if Lucas leaving LFC is some sort of exogenously imposed future event that we just have to 'adapt to'. Whether playing him vs QPR or anyone else is "going to help us longterm" ought not be predicated on the notion that he's a "goner" already. IMO, obviously.