Topic: The England Cricket Thread - 2024

[Elzar]

How can you investigate something that happened while players were actively England internationals. Why would you suddenly 10 years on go "Actually that's not to our liking".

If they didn't investigate it at the time, then should they investigate themselves too?

[Legs]

How can you investigate something that happened while players were actively England internationals. Why would you suddenly 10 years on go "Actually that's not to our liking".

If they didn't investigate it at the time, then should they investigate themselves too?

They've backed themselves into a corner now the ECB.

Do they have the balls to drop Jimmy, as if I was Ollie Robinson id be angry if someone else had a different set of rules

I mean they are only investigating this now as its been highlighted in the news.

It wont stop here either as they will keep digging now and someone else has bound to have said something offensive.

I mean Jimmy is only taking the micky out of Broad it clearly wasnt said in a bad way.

ECB need to be careful as if you drop / leave out world class players and England take a big beating in a few series this will backfire on them.

[lobsterboy]

Is this a serious post? If it is fucking hell you’ve got some issues. How about people just don’t post racist and sexist stuff. Would you say the same applies to those other criminals that did historical crimes? If the cops don’t probe historic abuse they don’t find anything and nobody is offended.

Really? Post made as teenagers. I work with them. They are all insensitive, self obsessed and prone to doing stupid stuff. There is a massive difference between a teenager posting an offensive tweet and the historical crimes you mention. To compare the two is frankly ridiculous.
Unfortunately social media now preserves this stuff forever to be used against them, something that wasn't an issue when we were young. We run countless awareness sessions with them but it often doesn't register.
Ruining a career for something said and done as a kid is going too far for me. You may be comfortable with it, that says more about you than them though.

[Elzar]

I mean they are only investigating this now as its been highlighted in the news.

It wont stop here either as they will keep digging now and someone else has bound to have said something offensive.

Exactly, but these things have been out in public since they were posted. Jimmy/Morgan/Buttler were all international cricketers when they were posted, so no digging would have been needed at the time. Yet there was no investigation then, so why would there be now. Ollie Robinson got binned from Yorkshire for his behaviour as a young cricketer and has turned himself around so well that he is now in the England set up.

The thing that should be learnt from this is to educate social media behaviour to young sportstars in academies around the country and probably in schools too. How many people that are going to be coming into the public eye over the next few years will have had Twitter accounts and Instagram accounts from young ages now. It's not just cricketers, but every sport will have these insensitive tweets from players. Yes Robinson's were a worse than the others, but I think it's fair to say he has grown and matured as a person since then.

I think it's also fair to say society on the whole has taken a more accepting and sensitive take towards the LGBTQ+ community, people of different skin colours and the use of words that are acceptable. Not to say that everyone was racist 10 years ago so it's fine, but peoples attitude to the language around it have changed for sure. Personally, when I was young I used to call my friends "Gay" or other things as an insult, but as you get older you realise that's not acceptable as you start to get opened up to the world and meet people of all kind of backgrounds. How many Liverpool fans sang "Chelsea Rent Boys" back then? What other horrific things were sung on the terraces in the 90's and 80s?There was a song that topped the charts in 2011 with the "n word" in it's title, being played in clubs and bars all over the place during those years, teenagers aren't going to be thinking about it may offend someone if they post it online, unless they are taught why they shouldn't. That's my views on it anyway, I'm not particularly good with my words so apologies if it doesn't make much sense.

I am interested to hear what Anderson's thoughts on it will be in the next Tailenders podcast, or if they will wait until the investigations finish before doing another one.

Onto the cricket tomorrow right? 
 

[El Lobo]

Anything that has led to me not being able to watch the League of Gentlemen anymore is a fucking farce.

[Brain Potter]

He's a fucking star is Mike Holding. There's a Klopp-like stature about him.

He remains, too, the most beautiful fast bowler of all time. I am thrilled to say I saw him in '76, in his pomp, off the long run, sending down missiles at 100 mph.

Holding’s run up and delivery were a thing of great beauty. As a 9 year old watching him bowl at the oval on tv at the end of that long hot summer will live with me forever. The parched oval outfield and him taking a lot of wickets

[Crosby Nick]

I don’t remember watching Holding sadly. I think by the time I followed cricket he might still have been turning out for Derbyshire but the earliest Windies side I can remember watching was with Marshall and Joel Garner, bit that they were bad to watch either!

Can’t be great preparation for England this. Have they kept the same squad for the second Test, I thought IPL players were eligible but haven’t seen anything. I know that Buttler is down to play the first 6 T20 games for Lancs. hope that won’t impact his Test form.

[Sangria]

Holding’s run up and delivery were a thing of great beauty. As a 9 year old watching him bowl at the oval on tv at the end of that long hot summer will live with me forever. The parched oval outfield and him taking a lot of wickets

Holding was before my time. My memories of fast bowling were Ambrose's run up, Waqar knocking batsmen off their feet (eg. Botham's last game), and Donald trying to knock Atherton's head off. I particularly enjoyed the last one, containing all the thrills of fast bowling from the bowler, the batsman, the commentator (Gower) and the crowd. Pure cricket theatre, and my friend and I were whooping and hollering during it, and couldn't stop talking about it after.

[Elzar]

Can’t be great preparation for England this. Have they kept the same squad for the second Test, I thought IPL players were eligible but haven’t seen anything. I know that Buttler is down to play the first 6 T20 games for Lancs. hope that won’t impact his Test form.

No IPL players, Bess is back in the squad, so expect to see a spinner this time.

[Yorkykopite]

Michael bowling in the Old Trafford gloaming to Brian Close in the 76 series. Close was a racist. A physically brave one, but still a racist. This was the "we'll make 'em grovel" tour. Holding decided to have fun. I still remember the photos of Close's body in the papers the following day - big welts and bruises all up his side.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mD0uglDlJVM

Brian Potter remembers the famous Oval Test at the end of the summer. What an occasion. The drought had left the field looking like a desert. The pitch was flat and had no bounce. Michael decided that the only way to take wickets was with speed through the air. He took 14 of the 20 to fall, practically all bowled or LBW. Genius.

And now a man who has to be listened to. An eloquent spokesman on why Black Lives Matter. A tolerant and liberal voice speaking up for those who alter their behaviour and apologise. A Klopp indeed. (These two men should be running the Labour party!)

[voodoo ray]

much change in the nz side.

trint is back in.
williamson is out, as is santner.
they have a man named will young coming in, so make up your own punchlines there.

[Crosby Nick]

much change in the nz side.

trint is back in.
williamson is out, as is santner.
they have a man named will young coming in, so make up your own punchlines there.

When he edges behind to one he didn’t need to play at:

It would been a better leave right now

[gerrardisgod]

Hopefully the weather remains good and the outfield stays evergreen.

[Ziltoid]

Michael bowling in the Old Trafford gloaming to Brian Close in the 76 series. Close was a racist. A physically brave one, but still a racist. This was the "we'll make 'em grovel" tour. Holding decided to have fun. I still remember the photos of Close's body in the papers the following day - big welts and bruises all up his side.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mD0uglDlJVM

Brian Potter remembers the famous Oval Test at the end of the summer. What an occasion. The drought had left the field looking like a desert. The pitch was flat and had no bounce. Michael decided that the only way to take wickets was with speed through the air. He took 14 of the 20 to fall, practically all bowled or LBW. Genius.

And now a man who has to be listened to. An eloquent spokesman on why Black Lives Matter. A tolerant and liberal voice speaking up for those who alter their behaviour and apologise. A Klopp indeed. (These two men should be running the Labour party!)

These

[Brain Potter]

Michael bowling in the Old Trafford gloaming to Brian Close in the 76 series. Close was a racist. A physically brave one, but still a racist. This was the "we'll make 'em grovel" tour. Holding decided to have fun. I still remember the photos of Close's body in the papers the following day - big welts and bruises all up his side.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mD0uglDlJVM

Brian Potter remembers the famous Oval Test at the end of the summer. What an occasion. The drought had left the field looking like a desert. The pitch was flat and had no bounce. Michael decided that the only way to take wickets was with speed through the air. He took 14 of the 20 to fall, practically all bowled or LBW. Genius.

And now a man who has to be listened to. An eloquent spokesman on why Black Lives Matter. A tolerant and liberal voice speaking up for those who alter their behaviour and apologise. A Klopp indeed. (These two men should be running the Labour party!)

In regards of that old Trafford test match in 1976, I remember one joker coming out of the crowd to give the struggling John Edrich a massive bat. Remember it like it was yesterday as they say.

[Sangria]

Donald v Atherton Trent Bridge 1998 watchalong. Ian Ward hosting, Mike Atherton, Allan Donald and Nasser Hussein (the other batsman) watching and commenting.

I especially enjoyed the bit where Atherton cringes and hides behind his hands when rewatching the bit where a catch is not given by Steve Dunne.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4necJm4D6o

[Elzar]

Lancashires stream for the t20 match has been taken off..


"Video unavailable
This video is no longer available due to a copyright claim by England and wales cricket borad /Sporta Technologies Pvt. Ltd.."

[Crosby Nick]

Lancashires stream for the t20 match has been taken off..


"Video unavailable
This video is no longer available due to a copyright claim by England and wales cricket borad /Sporta Technologies Pvt. Ltd.."

I watched the last few overs on that ok, lancs won with three balls to spare. Livingston 94*

[lorenzo]

Honestly people really need to stop going back through several years or social media posts to find something to be outraged about. If no one searches for them no one finds out about them and no one is offended.

Or......just hear me out for a second. Just don't say racist and offensive shit?

It get so tiring having to read and listen to this view. Just don't go around saying racist and offensive shit simple.

Also this whole crap about being educated we live in 20st century this tired old ages excuse needs to stop.

If things are going to change people need to stop making excuses for people saying racist etc... If you really believe racism is bad, then stop giving a way out for racist.

[Sangria]

Or......just hear me out for a second. Just don't say racist and offensive shit?

It get so tiring having to read and listen to this view. Just don't go around saying racist and offensive shit simple.

Also this whole crap about being educated we live in 20st century this tired old ages excuse needs to stop.

If things are going to change people need to stop making excuses for people saying racist etc... If you really believe racism is bad, then stop giving a way out for racist.

What were you like as a teenager? Absolutely heavenly clean and without any offensiveness?

[Welshred]

Or......just hear me out for a second. Just don't say racist and offensive shit?

It get so tiring having to read and listen to this view. Just don't go around saying racist and offensive shit simple.

Also this whole crap about being educated we live in 20st century this tired old ages excuse needs to stop.

If things are going to change people need to stop making excuses for people saying racist etc... If you really believe racism is bad, then stop giving a way out for racist.

We've been through this conversation, I think I'm going to stick with what the great Michael Holding said about this on Sky the other day. If it's good enough for Whispering Death then it's good enough for me but if you think it's fair game to deliberately search back a decade of someone's social media posts just so you can be offended or outraged by something then good on you.

[Robinred]

In regards of that old Trafford test match in 1976, I remember one joker coming out of the crowd to give the struggling John Edrich a massive bat. Remember it like it was yesterday as they say.

I was teaching in Wrexham in 1980, and we organised an end of term outing to the Old Trafford Test v the Windies. The match was drawn, surprisingly, given that the Windies attack was Roberts, Holding, Marshall and Garner. We took about 30 kids, and staff back at school with free periods were watching on TV (year 11, or as it was then, 5, had ‘left’ at Whitsun, only coming into school for exams, so there was slack in the system).

Anyway one boy, who was notorious for causing problems on school trips, got lost, and a tannoy announcement gave his name and that of the school  - embarrassment all round. Botham and Willis were in that England team, Boycott played, as I think did Gooch and Gatting. This was before the pitches were changed through 90 degrees, and it was incredible to witness just how much further back Derek Murray and the Windies slip cordon were stood compared to England’s, with Dilley, Willis and Botham the seam attack.

[lorenzo]

What were you like as a teenager? Absolutely heavenly clean and without any offensiveness?

See this is part of the issue affording another human basic human decency, equates to be heavenly. One thing i wasn't doing mate is being racist, which i don't believe is really that hard to be honest. And to be brutally honest its really tiring and embarrassing that this rhetoric is still used, just don't be racist and please stop the dam excuses to give people a pass.

It's funny if i said something racist now on the forum i would be banned.

[lorenzo]

We've been through this conversation, I think I'm going to stick with what the great Michael Holding said about this on Sky the other day. If it's good enough for Whispering Death then it's good enough for me but if you think it's fair game to deliberately search back a decade of someone's social media posts just so you can be offended or outraged by something then good on you.

Which is fair enough your entitled to your view and opinion. I can only speak for myself, i have been racially abused and my son. I am more interested in getting rid of racism rather than worried about if its fair game being outraged. If that means that i am being outraged by something racisted someone has said i am ok with that.

[Wabaloolah]

Michael bowling in the Old Trafford gloaming to Brian Close in the 76 series. Close was a racist. A physically brave one, but still a racist. This was the "we'll make 'em grovel" tour. Holding decided to have fun. I still remember the photos of Close's body in the papers the following day - big welts and bruises all up his side.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mD0uglDlJVM

Brian Potter remembers the famous Oval Test at the end of the summer. What an occasion. The drought had left the field looking like a desert. The pitch was flat and had no bounce. Michael decided that the only way to take wickets was with speed through the air. He took 14 of the 20 to fall, practically all bowled or LBW. Genius.

And now a man who has to be listened to. An eloquent spokesman on why Black Lives Matter. A tolerant and liberal voice speaking up for those who alter their behaviour and apologise. A Klopp indeed. (These two men should be running the Labour party!)

Tony Greig made the "we'll make them grovel" comment I believe, didn't realise Brian Close was a racist but Greig certainly was, I remember one of his commentaries, either World Series cricket or one of the World Cups where he actually said something like, "there's a big appeal, is he out? The P**i's think he's out". That was on the BBC highlights too. I get it was different times but even then as a kid I couldn't believe he said that!

[Sangria]

Which is fair enough your entitled to your view and opinion. I can only speak for myself, i have been racially abused and my son. I am more interested in getting rid of racism rather than worried about if its fair game being outraged. If that means that i am being outraged by something racisted someone has said i am ok with that.

It's possible to have been racially abused and still be of the opinion that people shouldn't be held responsible for their views as teenagers if they are no longer like that. You're not the only member of an ethnic minority in this world.

[Wabaloolah]

I was teaching in Wrexham in 1980, and we organised an end of term outing to the Old Trafford Test v the Windies. The match was drawn, surprisingly, given that the Windies attack was Roberts, Holding, Marshall and Garner. We took about 30 kids, and staff back at school with free periods were watching on TV (year 11, or as it was then, 5, had ‘left’ at Whitsun, only coming into school for exams, so there was slack in the system).

Anyway one boy, who was notorious for causing problems on school trips, got lost, and a tannoy announcement gave his name and that of the school  - embarrassment all round. Botham and Willis were in that England team, Boycott played, as I think did Gooch and Gatting. This was before the pitches were changed through 90 degrees, and it was incredible to witness just how much further back Derek Murray and the Windies slip cordon were stood compared to England’s, with Dilley, Willis and Botham the seam attack.

that attack was incredible, literally no let up. Colin Croft too used to play before Marshall I believe. Marshall was supposedly the fastest of the lot. Out of the four you mentioned, Joel Garner was probably the slowest (no slouch but not the raw pace of Holding or Marshall) but he was so tall (6'8") that he made up for any lack of pace by getting the ball to rise steeply off a length.

An incredible bowling attack, the likes of which we haven't seen since, four great pacemen in one attack at one time. As s cricket fan it was a great watch, as an England supporter those series were depressing though!


Here's the scorecard


https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/west-indies-tour-of-england-1980-61870/england-vs-west-indies-3rd-test-63268/full-scorecard


Looks like the best part of two days lost to the weather, hence the draw. Think England lost the series 1-0 with Botham as captain or was that in the West Indies in the following winter

[Sangria]

that attack was incredible, literally no let up. Colin Croft too used to play before Marshall I believe. Marshall was supposedly the fastest of the lot. Out of the four you mentioned, Joel Garner was probably the slowest (no slouch but not the raw pace of Holding or Marshall) but he was so tall (6'8") that he made up for any lack of pace by getting the ball to rise steeply off a length.

An incredible bowling attack, the likes of which we haven't seen since, four great pacemen in one attack at one time. As s cricket fan it was a great watch, as an England supporter those series were depressing though!


Here's the scorecard


https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/west-indies-tour-of-england-1980-61870/england-vs-west-indies-3rd-test-63268/full-scorecard


Looks like the best part of two days lost to the weather, hence the draw. Think England lost the series 1-0 with Botham as captain or was that in the West Indies in the following winter

I've never seen Marshall at his peak, and the footage I've seen of him doesn't look as impressive as Holding. The little I've seen of him makes him look like an open stanced fast medium seamer with just a smidgin of movement.

[Wabaloolah]

I've never seen Marshall at his peak, and the footage I've seen of him doesn't look as impressive as Holding. The little I've seen of him makes him look like an open stanced fast medium seamer with just a smidgin of movement.

ask Mike Gatting if he was quick, smashed a ball into Gattings face and when the ball went back to the bowler, there was a piece of the bone still embedded in it!

He may not have looked as quick because he was shorter but he was quick, not as natural a run up as Holding but he was definitely not a fast medium bowler

[Sangria]

ask Mike Gatting if he was quick, smashed a ball into Gattings face and when the ball went back to the bowler, there was a piece of the bone still embedded in it!

He may not have looked as quick because he was shorter but he was quick, not as natural a run up as Holding but he was definitely not a fast medium bowler

Any good tubes of him? I looked at Holding at the Oval and that was certainly proper fast bowling, complete with batsmen rushing their shots and edging either side of straight.

[Wabaloolah]

Any good tubes of him? I looked at Holding at the Oval and that was certainly proper fast bowling, complete with batsmen rushing their shots and edging either side of straight.

this is pretty decent, gets Gower and Lamb lbw beaten for pace, although reckon Lambie will be overturned today on review

https://youtu.be/saFsH8LN__U

[Sangria]

this is pretty decent, gets Gower and Lamb lbw beaten for pace, although reckon Lambie will be overturned today on review

https://youtu.be/saFsH8LN__U

That's excellent.

[Sangria]

ask Mike Gatting if he was quick, smashed a ball into Gattings face and when the ball went back to the bowler, there was a piece of the bone still embedded in it!
wler

Hack: Mike, where did the ball hit you?

[Brain Potter]

I was teaching in Wrexham in 1980, and we organised an end of term outing to the Old Trafford Test v the Windies. The match was drawn, surprisingly, given that the Windies attack was Roberts, Holding, Marshall and Garner. We took about 30 kids, and staff back at school with free periods were watching on TV (year 11, or as it was then, 5, had ‘left’ at Whitsun, only coming into school for exams, so there was slack in the system).

Anyway one boy, who was notorious for causing problems on school trips, got lost, and a tannoy announcement gave his name and that of the school  - embarrassment all round. Botham and Willis were in that England team, Boycott played, as I think did Gooch and Gatting. This was before the pitches were changed through 90 degrees, and it was incredible to witness just how much further back Derek Murray and the Windies slip cordon were stood compared to England’s, with Dilley, Willis and Botham the seam attack.

Yes that 1980 test was ruined by rain; whilst the 1976 series was played in a heatwave the 1980 series was played in opposite conditions.
I remember watching the 1st day on TV and Somerset captain Brian Rose, a county batsman really, made a fine 70.

I also went on a school trip in 1980 aged 13 to a county game v Kent. It pissed down all day apart from 3 overs of play. 40 odd bored lads all day with nothing to do , which led to bad behavior from some and our school getting banned from old Trafford.

[Crosby Nick]

Haha, what were you banned for Brian?

A group I was with got told off over the tannoy at the Oval for singing mildly derogatory stuff about Ian Salisbury  but we were plenty old enough to know better.

[lorenzo]

It's possible to have been racially abused and still be of the opinion that people shouldn't be held responsible for their views as teenagers if they are no longer like that. You're not the only member of an ethnic minority in this world.

I don’t recall ever saying that I spoke for anyone else? I even went on to acknowledge others views. Always interesting how these sort of things gets twisted that the one doing the abuse is some how seen as a victim. Also 18 is not a teenager he’s legally an adult, but hey it’s only bit of racism etc so..

[Sangria]

Haha, what were you banned for Brian?

A group I was with got told off over the tannoy at the Oval for singing mildly derogatory stuff about Ian Salisbury  but we were plenty old enough to know better.

Teamsheets from that Trent Bridge Test I was talking about earlier, where Donald tried to knock Atherton's block off.

Gary Kirsten, Gerhardus Liebenberg, Jacques Kallis, Daryll Cullinan, Hansie Cronje, Jonty Rhodes, Shaun Pollock, Mark Boucher, Steve Elworthy, Allan Donald, Paul Adams

Mark Butcher, Mike Atherton, Nasser Hussain, Alec Stewart (c), Mark Ramprakash, Ian Salisbury, Graeme Hick, Andrew Flintoff, Dominic Cork, Darren Gough, Angus Fraser

90s cricket was memetastic. IIRC Elworthy was spectacularly mediocre too for Lancs, at a time when teams were only allowed 1 foreign pro.

[Crosby Nick]

That was Flintoff’s Test debut I think. From memory he looked fairly innocuous with the ball, he was picked more for his batting. Amazing how much his bowling developed the more he played for England.

Elworthy was very mediocre you’re right. Have a feeling he came to Lancs in a year when Wasim was unavailable so pretty big shoes to fill! Think he was tournament director for a World Cup or now plays some administrative role in SA cricket.

[Welshred]

I don’t recall ever saying that I spoke for anyone else? I even went on to acknowledge others views. Always interesting how these sort of things gets twisted that the one doing the abuse is some how seen as a victim. Also 18 is not a teenager he’s legally an adult, but hey it’s only bit of racism etc so..

Although legally an adult I don't think anyone would agree that 18 year olds are mature enough to be considered adults but its not about that at all. Its just that it's documented that Ollie Robinson had troubles when he was a young lad, he got sacked by Yorkshire because he'd regularly travel to London the day before a game for a night out with his mates. He's matured a hell of a lot since and is now a model professional, his statement during the match last week was genuine even though some people don't think it was. He's not the same person now as he was several years ago but here's the clincher, if no one had dug up through his social media posts no one would be offended or even know these tweets existed and its not like the bloke is trying to become Prime Minister he's just trying to play some cricket. The same with the other players who have had the same over the last week.

Let me give you a personal example. I grew up in a village where it was common place to call the local Chinese takeaway and corner shop by racist and derogatory names. It was only through reading and educating myself on the internet in my 20s, before I moved away from that village, that I learnt it was wrong and haven't used it since. My family used to continue calling them by those names until I was able to educate them as well, they now don't. People in the village still do though and my nephews had started picking up on it, they now don't now I've educated them on why it's wrong to do so. This is a family with a wide ranging ages, all learning and progressing to be better people, imagine them now losing a job for something they were saying 15 years ago because someone trudged through their whole history to find something to be offended by?

I'm still with Michael Holding, and interestingly you've not commented on his thoughts...judge people on who they are today and not who they were a decade ago with regards to what they've said. If they've changed and no longer represent those views then move on, if they haven't then punish them.

[Welshred]

Anyway, back to cricket, the toss is in just under 15 minutes