Topic: Those chants

[thejbs]

In the age of AI, it'll need serious verification.

Ah c’mon, now. We have to own it. Call a dickhead a dickhead, whatever colours he wears.

[Black Bull Nova]

Yes, Daniel and some others at the I have some decent stuff, I was just going to post all that, thanks

[WhereAngelsPlay]

Ah c’mon, now. We have to own it. Call a dickhead a dickhead, whatever colours he wears.

I would.

[Eeyore]

Ah c’mon, now. We have to own it. Call a dickhead a dickhead, whatever colours he wears.

It is a false equivalence though.

You can't compare tens of thousands of fans going through their usual repertoire of vile songs and one idiot being an idiot. As a club, you simply cannot do something about one individual. What you can do something about is tens of thousands of fans participating in 'hate chants'. Especially when those chants occur week in week out whether they are playing us or not.

It is very simple United could easily amend their conditions of entry to include singing certain chants. GMP could easily set out what they consider to be hate chants. 

[Black Bull Nova]

It is a false equivalence though.

You can't compare tens of thousands of fans going through their usual repertoire of vile songs and one idiot being an idiot. As a club, you simply cannot do something about one individual. What you can do something about is tens of thousands of fans participating in 'hate chants'. Especially when those chants occur week in week out whether they are playing us or not.

It is very simple United could easily amend their conditions of entry to include singing certain chants. GMP could easily set out what they consider to be hate chants.

I'd say that could be the other way round, clubs love picking on one individual and banning them and then claiming they've addressed the issue. 5,000 fans together, all together harder to deal with in practice, try kicking out 5,000 fans from the ground.
One individual can be handled by those around them, if they wish, they should be because they risk the whole club being tarnished.
If that had been one voice on sunday the police could have easily identified them and taken action, 100% coverage, as it was they picked a couple up and left 4,998 untouched.

[stockdam]

We'd stopped by 1991 due to Hillsborough, if you'd have been going in the 80's you'd have heard at least 3 different Munich songs and one one word chant at Anfield. We don't deny we sang them, but we learnt the hard way they're not funny, clever or ever acceptable.

You might hear the odd dickhead try to get a Munich song going, or Harold Shipman, but they'll get shut down straight away. I'm surprised how restrained our fans are with the shite these c*nts threw yesterday

It’s hard to stop and there will be often isolated incidents. Hopefully the less there is the easier it will be for the police to get on top of it.

Those on our side who do it should know better. They may as well join in on the Hillsborough chants as their actions just lead to the idiots on the other side to believe that it’s ok.

However some of the justification and whataboutery from their side is amazing. One person on Twitter claimed that we had a history of pro IRA chants which was news to me.

I’m sure that we have bellends too but all we can do is to continually call them out. Anyone who gets involved deserves to be arrested as they are basically pissing on the graves of the 97. Don’t use anyone’s grief to be a subject or ridicule, banter or taunting. It’s vile and disgusting and the club has continually reminded people not to participate.

As for the United fans, it seems that hatred of scouse bastards is totally acceptable which is strange in 2024.

[Fromola]

It’s hard to stop and there will be often isolated incidents. Hopefully the less there is the easier it will be for the police to get on top of it.

Those on our side who do it should know better. They may as well join in on the Hillsborough chants as their actions just lead to the idiots on the other side to believe that it’s ok.

However some of the justification and whataboutery from their side is amazing. One person on Twitter claimed that we had a history of pro IRA chants which was news to me.

I’m sure that we have bellends too but all we can do is to continually call them out. Anyone who gets involved deserves to be arrested as they are basically pissing on the graves of the 97. Don’t use anyone’s grief to be a subject or ridicule, banter or taunting. It’s vile and disgusting and the club has continually reminded people not to participate.

As for the United fans, it seems that hatred of scouse bastards is totally acceptable which is strange in 2024.

United fans just love all this crap, that's the difference. They love the vile chants, they love the whataboutery, they love being as unpleasant and hateful as possible, they love goading people into a reaction. It's how they support, especially against a hated rival. So it's pointless getting into it with them because you'll never win.

Have we got some pondlife who follow us? Of course and they can be vile too - get them gone by all means. But as a general fan culture our fans just want to go and support their team, it's chalk and cheese. Where we as bad as them in the 80s? Probably. But it's 2024, they've not moved on.

[jillcwhomever]

Saying we stopped the chanting after Hillsborough is incorrect and feeds into more of this shite. It stopped early 1988 after a match between liverpool and man utd when the echo and MEN came together to stop the shankly and Munich chants. It started getting booed from then on and stopped pretty soon after. Still sang it in pubs and shouts at games but the crowd as a whole stopped a long time ago. Fuck all to do with Hillsborough.

I heard it once coming back from the Worthington Cup Final on the train in 2001, again it was only a few people not the entire train. Perhaps like then it's young lads trying to seem harder than they are, but it needs wiping out.

[Charlie Adams fried egg]

Absolutely astonishing to see some of our own obsessing about one or two dickheads in our fan base and somehow drawing the conclusion that as a result of said dickheads, we have no right to say anything.

It’s an extension of the equally bizarre behaviour when a huge decision goes against us, which is then explained away by the usual media gobshites, only to get a few on here agreeing with them.

The widespread chanting by the Mancs needs debating and needs dealing with. A big part of the debate needs to involve truth about how and when this chanting happens, and how many people join in. All this both sides bollocks is the equivalent of pundits contradicting themselves weekly to justify decisions against us.

Our club has come on leaps and bounds in all areas except one. PR. We seem to lose out every time. Whether it’s lack of investment or resource by the club, or whether the fact we lose out just illustrates what we are up against, I don’t know. But we do need to do something.

Paris told us that when decent journalists are handed a story, they report it honestly. Perhaps starting with some of these people may be a way of getting this more airtime.

Articles asking the question of why fans of one of the biggest clubs in the world think that singing about a rivals tragedy at any game constitutes support for the team? Let alone games that don’t involve us. Get quotes from players and senior staff. Quote the decent United fans who campaign against this type of stuff.

It’s yet another battle, but we’re quite good at battles.

[jillcwhomever]

Absolutely astonishing to see some of our own obsessing about one or two dickheads in our fan base and somehow drawing the conclusion that as a result of said dickheads, we have no right to say anything.

It’s an extension of the equally bizarre behaviour when a huge decision goes against us, which is then explained away by the usual media gobshites, only to get a few on here agreeing with them.

The widespread chanting by the Mancs needs debating and needs dealing with. A big part of the debate needs to involve truth about how and when this chanting happens, and how many people join in. All this both sides bollocks is the equivalent of pundits contradicting themselves weekly to justify decisions against us.

Our club has come on leaps and bounds in all areas except one. PR. We seem to lose out every time. Whether it’s lack of investment or resource by the club, or whether the fact we lose out just illustrates what we are up against, I don’t know. But we do need to do something.

Paris told us that when decent journalists are handed a story, they report it honestly. Perhaps starting with some of these people may be a way of getting this more airtime.

Articles asking the question of why fans of one of the biggest clubs in the world think that singing about a rivals tragedy at any game constitutes support for the team? Let alone games that don’t involve us. Get quotes from players and senior staff. Quote the decent United fans who campaign against this type of stuff.

It’s yet another battle, but we’re quite good at battles.

Who has said that? But if you want this sort of thing consigned to the past everyone has to be honest, and problems need to be dealt with, whether its an individual or bigger situations such as we hear from the United fans most matches.

[Fitzy.]

In the age of AI, it'll need serious verification.

Probably just a weapon being thick and horrible.

[rob1966]

Saying we stopped the chanting after Hillsborough is incorrect and feeds into more of this shite. It stopped early 1988 after a match between liverpool and man utd when the echo and MEN came together to stop the shankly and Munich chants. It started getting booed from then on and stopped pretty soon after. Still sang it in pubs and shouts at games but the crowd as a whole stopped a long time ago. Fuck all to do with Hillsborough.

I stand corrected then, thanks.

I started a job arse end of 87 where I worked Saturdays so going the game was a struggle, so I only got to the odd game, then started going every home from 1991, so mistakenly thought I'd still heard it in the games in 1988/89 i got to, I suppose I'd just gotten that used to the shit it didn't register that it had stopped.

[Charlie Adams fried egg]

Who has said that? But if you want this sort of thing consigned to the past everyone has to be honest, and problems need to be dealt with, whether its an individual or bigger situations such as we hear from the United fans most matches.

One in here a few pages back, also in Andy's thread in GF.
Don't want a big debate, but unfortunately there are people that argue differently on an issue where we all should be united - no exceptions.

[jillcwhomever]

One in here a few pages back, also in Andy's thread in GF.
Don't want a big debate, but unfortunately there are people that argue differently on an issue where we all should be united - no exceptions.

I agree, we should all be united on this sort of stuff. The Hillsborough Survivors Support Alliance is doing some really good work on this on social media. They highlighted the idiot from yesterday who was making crushing gestures and the idiot doing plane gestures today. All of this needs to be highlighted and those people removed if we are ever to move forward on this issue.

[Charlie Adams fried egg]

With you all the way.
If purging a couple of our own who can't control themselves is the price for eradicating mass chanting then bring it on. We just need to challenge any attempt to paint this thing as being the same on both sides.

Thousands openly chanting vs isolated incidents is no contest and needs highlighting at every opportunity.

[jillcwhomever]

With you all the way.
If purging a couple of our own who can't control themselves is the price for eradicating mass chanting then bring it on. We just need to challenge any attempt to paint this thing as being the same on both sides.

Thousands openly chanting vs isolated incidents is no contest and needs highlighting at every opportunity.

The reports I have seen make that clear, they are mostly talking about the chanting that was clearly heard by everyone. It's why I have been surprised the club have been so quiet so far.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

Probably just a weapon being thick and horrible.

More than likely, we'll know for sure when the video is sourced.

[stockdam]

I agree, we should all be united on this sort of stuff. The Hillsborough Survivors Support Alliance is doing some really good work on this on social media. They highlighted the idiot from yesterday who was making crushing gestures and the idiot doing plane gestures today. All of this needs to be highlighted and those people removed if we are ever to move forward on this issue.

HSA have been brilliant and addressed all the whataboutery. They have consistently condemned any nonsense from either set of supporters. United supporters appear to have a mentality that if there is one idiot from our fan base who does something wrong then that justifies everything that they do. They have no intention of changing and use every whataboutery that they can.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

I'm starting to think that the first place we should target with emails is the Club itself. Let them know that we're not happy with their level (don't laugh) of support, we need them to let us know why they like the commentators seem to throw a deaf'un, force them to come out fighting on our behalf.

[redgriffin73]

Imagine the reaction if Ten Hag sat down with a member of the Hillsborough support group and did a speech on why he wanted their fans to stop singing their songs, similar to what Jurgen did with the Chelsea chant. Just never gonna happen.

[mattD]

I'm starting to think that the first place we should target with emails is the Club itself. Let them know that we're not happy with their level (don't laugh) of support, we need them to let us know why they like the commentators seem to throw a deaf'un, force them to come out fighting on our behalf.

Doesn't help when the commentators normalise those chants.

Lee Dixon looking at you. Horrible little man.

These toxic things never exist in the broadcasters eyes, because it will spoil the brand.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

Doesn't help when the commentators normalise those chants.

Lee Dixon looking at you. Horrible little man.

These toxic things never exist in the broadcasters eyes, because it will spoil the brand.

I agree but that little twat and his mates would have a harder time ignoring it if our Club called them out.

[Reds r coming up the hill]

Imagine the reaction if Ten Hag sat down with a member of the Hillsborough support group and did a speech on why he wanted their fans to stop singing their songs, similar to what Jurgen did with the Chelsea chant. Just never gonna happen.

This

[Barneylfc∗]

In the age of AI, it'll need serious verification.

I don't think there's any reason to doubt it.

We've got eye witness accounts on here from people that were at the game who have reported it to the club but they aren't interested.

I've asked the question via live chat.  I was advised to report it to Greater Manchester Police and Manchester United, but that LFC wouldn't do anything with my report or wish to investigate or take any action against the individuals.  I relayed that it wasn't right that the essential line from LFC was that they wouldn't be interested in investigating or taking any action themselves, but the buck remained firmly passed.

It's a shame. How can we expect other clubs to police their own scum c*nts when our club wash their hands of the scum that follow us?

[WhereAngelsPlay]

I don't think there's any reason to doubt it.

We've got eye witness accounts on here from people that were at the game who have reported it to the club but they aren't interested.

Now I know   

[Koplass]

United fans just love all this crap, that's the difference. They love the vile chants, they love the whataboutery, they love being as unpleasant and hateful as possible, they love goading people into a reaction. It's how they support, especially against a hated rival. So it's pointless getting into it with them because you'll never win.

Have we got some pondlife who follow us? Of course and they can be vile too - get them gone by all means. But as a general fan culture our fans just want to go and support their team, it's chalk and cheese. Where we as bad as them in the 80s? Probably. But it's 2024, they've not moved on.

You're right and this is a big issue. When United play Crystal Palace they chant about Cantona's kung fu kick. Their raison d'être is to be as obnoxious as they can, no matter the opposition, but obviously that ramps up against us because it's a seething, bitter obsession with Liverpool.

Getting United fans to change their culture feels almost impossible. They have so many achievements as a club that they could be singing about but they'd rather sing about poverty, Hillsborough or Heysel.

How do you convince them that being in love with your own football club, is infinitely more enjoyable than mocking the dead or shitting on poor people?

[jillcwhomever]

Perhaps we need to get an organisation like the FSA involved working with fan groups, both clubs have fan groups who could co-operate under the FSA work together. I am not sure if this has ever been put to anyone before. Surely something has to be at least attempted otherwise it goes on and on and everything gets a lot worse. 

[Son of Spion]

You're right and this is a big issue. When United play Crystal Palace they chant about Cantona's kung fu kick. Their raison d'être is to be as obnoxious as they can, no matter the opposition, but obviously that ramps up against us because it's a seething, bitter obsession with Liverpool.

Getting United fans to change their culture feels almost impossible. They have so many achievements as a club that they could be singing about but they'd rather sing about poverty, Hillsborough or Heysel.

How do you convince them that being in love with your own football club, is infinitely more enjoyable than mocking the dead or shitting on poor people?

They have a generally awful, smalltime fan culture. For such a big, storied club, it's actually quite embarrassing.

I agree with you here, and Framola. Other than my first encounter with them in the Road End in 1971, which was fine, I've always found them to delight in being obnoxious scumbags. They seem to buzz off it like naughty kids in school.

I doubt they'll ever grow up and grow out of it. It's too ingrained into their culture now. It's in their DNA. They simply enjoy being gobshites. Given how well travelled they are they should have a fair bit of perspective and class, but they have neither. They go out of their way to goad opposition into singing about Munich at Old Trafford, then they cheer if they do so. Imagine us trying to goad opposition fans into singing about Hillsborough then cheering if they do. They are barking mad. They don't even care about the feelings of the Munich survivors or the loved ones of the dead. All they care about is being as disgusting as possible. What an appalling fan culture that is. It's not just a few bad apples either. Sadly, their decent fans are in the minority. They revelled in being scumbags in the seventies and they've never grown out of it and entered the 21st century.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

Perhaps we need to get an organisation like the FSA involved working with fan groups, both clubs have fan groups who could co-operate under the FSA work together. I am not sure if this has ever been put to anyone before. Surely something has to be at least attempted otherwise it goes on and on and everything gets a lot worse.

Tried it only for the Mancs to ignore said chants in the very next match, so fuck working with them, our owners need to shame the bastards, all of them.

[9 kemlyn road]

You're right and this is a big issue. When United play Crystal Palace they chant about Cantona's kung fu kick. Their raison d'être is to be as obnoxious as they can, no matter the opposition, but obviously that ramps up against us because it's a seething, bitter obsession with Liverpool.

Getting United fans to change their culture feels almost impossible. They have so many achievements as a club that they could be singing about but they'd rather sing about poverty, Hillsborough or Heysel.

How do you convince them that being in love with your own football club, is infinitely more enjoyable than mocking the dead or shitting on poor people?

When playing other teams ,singing about the opposition is all they can do ,no support or songs about their own team.even that cantina song when playing palace is glorifying a violent assault on a spectator,an appalling act but they choose to laud it .
Then when they run out of songs to sing about the opposition they do what they always revert to and continue their obsession with us by singing the whole repotoire of derogatory songs about us.
They dominated for 20 years ,had a manager who gave them all that glory ,great games ,famous victories but no let’s sing about dead scousers at every given turn .
Son of spion mentioned in another post about the fact they were responsible for the deaths of a palace fan and a middlesboro supporting couple through acts of hooliganism and violence ,that seems to have slipped their minds but it was just another regular day out for them .
Absolute scum,they’ll never change ,theyre having too much fun .

[rob1966]

Tried it only for the Mancs to ignore said chants in the very next match, so fuck working with them, our owners need to shame the bastards, all of them.

I remember being at a game at Anfield v the Mancs, I "think" it was 2007 and they were singing "Where's your famous Munich song". They don't want to stop the songs, they're desperate for us to go at them again for some sick reason.

[Andy82lfc]

I remember being at a game at Anfield v the Mancs, I "think" it was 2007 and they were singing "Where's your famous Munich song". They don't want to stop the songs, they're desperate for us to go at them again for some sick reason.

I remember similar.

It's quite clear to most why they have a lot less care about it, but not something I want to start picking apart and distracting the debate with.

I think the shouts to call on the club are probably the best bet, I'd be amazed if they don't have something in the works though, especially as they haven't even released a token statement yet, but it is surprising the amount of time they are taking over it maybe it's due to the international break.

[Boston always unofficial]

Perhaps we need to get an organisation like the FSA involved working with fan groups, both clubs have fan groups who could co-operate under the FSA work together. I am not sure if this has ever been put to anyone before. Surely something has to be at least attempted otherwise it goes on and on and everything gets a lot worse.

 
I just had a look at the FSA website,couldn't find anything about the chants,same on the Kick it out site.Maybe i didn't look in the right bits.Or it's not part of their agenda?

[Mighty_Red]

Think the email campaign shouts are a good one. Perhaps go after Utds sponsors esp the ones on the advertising boards in the stadium,  telling them they are being associated with and condoning tragedy chanting. Same with the PL/FA cup sponsors.

Nobody from Manchester will do anything (not even GMP) the global institutions might.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

Think the email campaign shouts are a good one. Perhaps go after Utds sponsors esp the ones on the advertising boards in the stadium,  telling them they are being associated with and condoning tragedy chanting. Same with the PL/FA cup sponsors.

Nobody from Manchester will do anything (not even GMP) the global institutions might.

Why would they when not even our own Club doesn't seem to care.

[semit5]

Where are the decent men and women who are UTD fans who are embarrassed by the chanting and don’t take part in it and want it to stop? There must be some out there.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

They all handed in their season tickets after their players sang them.

[Kloppage Time]

If they banned everyone that partook in the tragedy chanting at United/Luton and Forest this season there wouldn't be any fans left to attend their games, one game in an empty stadium and a fine might be enough to get the message across?

[andy07]

This needs addressing at higher levels.  This is a cultural issue with United.  Thousands engaging in repeated vile  chants yet nothing done by United the club to sort their act out.  It is almost as though United the club are comfortable with the actions of their fans.  It has been part of the United fan culture for many years to chant about us whenever and whoever they play. 

[WhereAngelsPlay]

This needs addressing at higher levels.  This is a cultural issue with United.  Thousands engaging in repeated vile  chants yet nothing done by United the club to sort their act out.  It is almost as though United the club are comfortable with the actions of their fans.  It has been part of the United fan culture for many years to chant about us whenever and whoever they play.

And our Club should be calling them out on it.