Author Topic: India - deteriorating?  (Read 62127 times)

Offline Bullet500

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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #920 on: March 20, 2024, 04:58:39 pm »
By the 1880s that's true. But the initial push from below - even if we discount the popular movements of the English Civil War - were from an earlier period. EP Thompson's 'The Making of the English Working Class' covers the period from 1790 to 1832. Literacy rates were far lower then. And workers ran tremendous risks to combine and agitate (deportation etc). But that's where 'Reform' came from. One literate worker too could read aloud from a great Chartist newspaper like 'The Northern Star' and educate ten illiterate ones.
Yes, this could not happen in India because of the lack of intermingling among castes. Literacy in 1947 heavily correlated with caste. Privileged castes were more literate and richer. The interaction between privileged and non-privileged castes was transactional.

Things have changed now, but the dominant propaganda also has, unfortunately.

Offline west_london_red

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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #921 on: March 20, 2024, 05:44:32 pm »
[2017] " Tarun Vijay lands in trouble with 'black people' remarks, later apologises on Twitter. Denying racism in India, the former BJP MP told Al Jazeera television, 'If we were racist, why would we live with South Indians.' " - https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/if-we-were-racist-why-would-we-live-with-south-indians-tarun-vijay/article17866698.ece

This is very good example of how people think in India. Dharmic texts are seemingly more liberal than Abrahimic texts? India can't be illiberal. Some historical figure (or may be mythical) espoused democracy? India is the mother of democracy and can't be undemocratic.

I’ve read a few instances of African students studying in India getting attacked over the last few years.
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Offline itihasas

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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #922 on: March 20, 2024, 09:30:41 pm »
No c*nt on here has said that.

No, those are the words from big brain Mykhailo Podolyak
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Offline west_london_red

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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #923 on: March 21, 2024, 12:02:20 am »
No, those are the words from big brain Mykhailo Podolyak

What do you expect him to say? His country is being smashed to pieces, India is after China one of the few countries who can assert significant pressure on the Russians and India is sitting on the fence keeping company with some of the most brutal regimes on the planet, we’ve both spent time explaining India’s stance on Russia and Ukraine, and while it might make sense from a political, economic and historical perspective, morally India’s position is absolutely awful.
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Offline itihasas

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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #924 on: March 21, 2024, 03:28:12 am »
I missed the fact that the election dates have been announced. Results will be 4'th June.

Mood of the nation is predicting absolute majority for the BJP again :

https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/mood-of-the-nation-2024-lok-sabha-elections-pm-modi-nda-win-likely-india-alliance-congress-important-issues-2499457-2024-02-08

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Offline Bullet500

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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #925 on: March 21, 2024, 03:39:51 am »
Though mood of the nation poll won't say otherwise if contrary were true, but BJP will have another majority is quite obvious at this point.

"India’s Probe Finds Rogue Officials Involved in US Murder Plot. New Delhi has shared findings of investigation with US. US pushing for criminal prosecution of individuals, people say." - https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-03-20/india-s-probe-finds-rogue-officials-involved-in-us-murder-plot

"India admits to involvement of officials to kill Gurpatwant Pannun: Report. New Delhi has submitted findings of the government-appointed investigation panel to US authorities, say reports in this respect." - https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/india/india-admits-involvement-of-officials-to-kill-gurpatwant-pannun-report-602633

This played out exactly as how some predicted in this thread.

Offline Sangria

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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #926 on: March 21, 2024, 03:49:12 am »
Excuses for white supremacy now? A new low. The West is in no position to morally grandstand considering their stance on Gaza and given Sergiy Kyslytsya latest statement only drew the signature of 56 countries (most of them EU/NATO), I'd wager most of the world has figured out that at the end of the day, for the West, it all boils down to rules for thee but not for me.

Woah, is this the new Gaza thread now?
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Offline Sangria

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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #927 on: March 21, 2024, 05:15:39 am »
Now, what have Upanishads got to do with the India's illiberalism in 2024...!!!

Islam was relatively liberal for its time during its heyday. Nowadays, Muslim countries are hellholes because of Islam. Referring to history to justify the modern day is deliberately missing the point.
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Offline west_london_red

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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #928 on: March 21, 2024, 06:41:27 am »
Excuses for white supremacy now? A new low. The West is in no position to morally grandstand considering their stance on Gaza and given Sergiy Kyslytsya latest statement only drew the signature of 56 countries (most of them EU/NATO), I'd wager most of the world has figured out that at the end of the day, for the West, it all boils down to rules for thee but not for me.

Sorry but that’s a pretty infantile argument. Just because Western countries can sometimes behave in a completely immoral and hypocritical way, that doesn’t mean everyone else should follow suite. It’s quite possible for India to call out the West and call out Russia.
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Offline Bullet500

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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #929 on: March 21, 2024, 07:57:04 pm »
Islam was relatively liberal for its time during its heyday. Nowadays, Muslim countries are hellholes because of Islam. Referring to history to justify the modern day is deliberately missing the point.
The poster's username 'itihasa' literally means history.

"India arrests Delhi chief minister as crackdown on opposition spreads" - https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/03/21/india-arrests-delhi-chief-minister-crackdown-opposition-spreads/

Corruption charges. Minuscule compared to BJP's open corruption.

"India punishes critics by revoking visas and residency permits.  Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi often draws crowds of supporters from the Indian diaspora on his foreign visits. But back home, his administration has been revoking visas and residency permits of foreign nationals of Indian origin as well as spouses of Indian citizens. For those denied access or kicked out of India, the experience can be traumatic." - https://www.france24.com/en/asia-pacific/20240321-india-blocks-access-residency-permits-of-overseas-citizen-critics
« Last Edit: March 21, 2024, 08:00:32 pm by Bullet500 »

Offline west_london_red

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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #930 on: March 21, 2024, 11:46:36 pm »
I said it before and I’ll say it again the Russification of India is underway before our very eyes.
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Offline bigbonedrawky

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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #931 on: March 22, 2024, 11:33:05 am »
Woah, is this the new Gaza thread now?
No if anything it's the Ukraine thread seeping into this one.

Islam was relatively liberal for its time during its heyday. Nowadays, Muslim countries are hellholes because of Islam. Referring to history to justify the modern day is deliberately missing the point.
Woah is this the new Islam thread now ?  ;)
 

Offline Robinred

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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #932 on: March 22, 2024, 12:14:33 pm »
"The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology...as long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth." Mikhail Bakunin

Offline west_london_red

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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #933 on: March 22, 2024, 12:21:50 pm »
Bollywood releases look like pro-Modi propaganda, says the Guardian:

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2024/mar/22/brazen-propaganda-pro-modi-films-flood-bollywood-before-india-election?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

The best part will be when Modi inevitably wins the election watch all of the Western leaders rushing to condemn the election like they did Putin’s election ‘win’…
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Offline Bullet500

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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #934 on: March 22, 2024, 05:17:04 pm »

Offline masher

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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #935 on: March 22, 2024, 06:59:22 pm »
I said it before and I’ll say it again the Russification of India is underway before our very eyes.

Utter nonsense.

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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #936 on: March 22, 2024, 07:19:50 pm »
Utter nonsense.

How predictable from our resident Modi apologist.
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Offline masher

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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #937 on: March 22, 2024, 07:26:30 pm »
How predictable from our resident Modi apologist.

Just as predictable as your hyperbolic scare mongering.

Offline west_london_red

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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #938 on: March 22, 2024, 08:10:11 pm »
Just as predictable as your hyperbolic scare mongering.

You might have a point if it was just me

https://www.chathamhouse.org/2022/04/democracy-india

“Through its control of the media, monopolization of campaign finance and harassment of opponents, India seems set on a path to becoming an illiberal pseudo-democracy similar to Turkey or Russia.”

https://www.v-dem.net/documents/29/V-dem_democracyreport2023_lowres.pdf

India is an ‘Electoral Autocracy’, same classification as Russia

https://rsf.org/en/index

India is 161st, Russia is 164th


I could probably carry with specific examples of journalists being arrested or silenced, attacks on critical media organisations, censorship, arrests of opposition politicians but I really can’t be bothered with you.
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Offline masher

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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #939 on: March 23, 2024, 12:55:04 am »
Ah the famous V-dem rankings, which are a joke. “According to these rankings India's electoral system in 2019, 2020, and 2021 was substantially less "free and fair" than at the height of the Emergency in 1976”  :lmao :lmao :lmao

https://newsletter.salvatorebabones.com/p/inside-the-v-dem-rankings.

I could probably carry with specific examples of journalists being arrested or silenced, attacks on critical media organisations, censorship, arrests of opposition politicians but I really can’t be bothered with you.

Sure you could, we are not a perfect country. And I can match and raise you a worse example in each of that category before 2014.

The point being that all the narrative about deterioration of situation since 2014 is nonsense. For example consider Pew survey on religious tolerance in India and compare it with their survey on racial bias in India. Pew survey are the gold standard and their finding’s are objective based on hard data unlike v-dems that are subjective.

https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2021/06/29/religion-in-india-tolerance-and-segregation/

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2021/03/18/majorities-of-americans-see-at-least-some-discrimination-against-black-hispanic-and-asian-people-in-the-u-s/

89 per cent of India’s Muslims say they are “very free” to practice their own religion, and 24 percent believe they face “a lot of” discrimination in Indian society. To put this in context, in a separate US population survey, Pew found that 80 per cent of African-Americans, 46 per cent of Hispanic-Americans, and 42 per cent of Asian-Americans believe they face “a lot of” discrimination in American society.

Also take the Kejriwal arrest example. People are pretending as if this is unprecedented, it is really not.

Are there corrupt politicians in BJP - sure there are. Are the investigative agencies bias in not investigating BJP leaders - absolutely.

Is BJP the only party guilty of this - absolutely not. In 2011 The Supreme Court has called CBI a caged parrot under Congresses government . West Bengal is the most violent and corrupt state yet no cases are logged by state policy against their leaders. Since coming to power in Punjab, AAP’s government has logged 300 cases against Congress politicians whereas allegation of corruptions against AAP are ignored by local law enforcement. So please spare me the nonsense around Russification.

The most amusing part in the Kejrwal’s saga is that it was the Congress party that filed the initial complaint against AAP in the liquor scandal. This is what culminated into his arrest.


Offline west_london_red

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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #940 on: March 23, 2024, 09:08:04 am »
This guy? The right wing Trump supporter?

https://theprint.in/india/sociologist-who-called-indian-intellectuals-anti-india-listed-as-foreign-agent-in-us-australia/1202117/?amp

And yes, maybe the V-Dem ranking are flawed, but it’s not as if those rankings are the only ones saying India’s democratic values are on the wane.

As for the discrimination element, it’s probably a separate issue as to the health of it’s democracy but skimming the Pew paper it also states that 64% of Hindus believe to truly be Indian you need to be Hindu, not exactly a good sign.
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Offline itihasas

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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #941 on: March 23, 2024, 10:14:06 am »
Ah the famous V-dem rankings, which are a joke. “According to these rankings India's electoral system in 2019, 2020, and 2021 was substantially less "free and fair" than at the height of the Emergency in 1976”  :lmao :lmao :lmao

https://newsletter.salvatorebabones.com/p/inside-the-v-dem-rankings.

All these "indexes" and "rankings" that originate from the West are nonsense. They just serve as one of the many arms of the Western propaganda machine.

The most ludicrous one is the happiness index, apparently Finland tops it and yet they have a suicide rate of 14/100k. The next 3 are inhabited by some of the coldest cultures on Earth, bit difficult to be "happy" in a country where you struggle to create any sort of meaningful social connection
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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #942 on: March 23, 2024, 10:24:56 am »
All these "indexes" and "rankings" that originate from the West are nonsense. They just serve as one of the many arms of the Western propaganda machine.

The most ludicrous one is the happiness index, apparently Finland tops it and yet they have a suicide rate of 14/100k. The next 3 are inhabited by some of the coldest cultures on Earth, bit difficult to be "happy" in a country where you struggle to create any sort of meaningful social connection

I see how your mind works.
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Offline Sangria

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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #943 on: March 23, 2024, 11:01:35 am »
A lesson in post-colonialism. The final lesson in post-colonialism is recognising that colonials are allowed to have their own views, rather than what you ascribe to them as dutiful liberal anti-imperialists. Of course, those views may be BS that you're glad aren't prevalent in our own mature liberal democracies, but they're allowed to have them. The right post-colonialist response is to recognise that they exist, that the world isn't just a liberal reaction against the imperialist establishment. You can have authoritarian reactions against imperialists too. You can even have (and this is more prevalent amongst the more powerful former colonies) imperialist reactions too, the determination that this is their time in the sun.
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Offline kloppismydad

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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #944 on: March 23, 2024, 11:10:42 am »
Quite funny that we'll see democracy murdered under Modi, while the Congress, the party that declared Emergency in 1984, are gonna be the saviours. ;D

A lot of people here are far removed from the ground realities of India and it shows.

Also take the Kejriwal arrest example. People are pretending as if this is unprecedented, it is really not.

It is unprecedented though! A sitting Chief Minister arrested in a corruption case.  :duh

The same clown whose party was given two terms in Delhi and one in Punjab (while democracy is dying in India) on the back of his campaign against corruption. Fucking clown.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2024, 11:13:14 am by kloppismydad »
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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #945 on: March 23, 2024, 12:18:16 pm »
Quite funny that we'll see democracy murdered under Modi, while the Congress, the party that declared Emergency in 1984, are gonna be the saviours. ;D

A lot of people here are far removed from the ground realities of India and it shows.

It is unprecedented though! A sitting Chief Minister arrested in a corruption case.  :duh

The same clown whose party was given two terms in Delhi and one in Punjab (while democracy is dying in India) on the back of his campaign against corruption. Fucking clown.

It would be useful if you knew when the actual Emergency was  :duh
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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #946 on: March 23, 2024, 01:24:44 pm »
All these "indexes" and "rankings" that originate from the West are nonsense. They just serve as one of the many arms of the Western propaganda machine.

The most ludicrous one is the happiness index, apparently Finland tops it and yet they have a suicide rate of 14/100k. The next 3 are inhabited by some of the coldest cultures on Earth, bit difficult to be "happy" in a country where you struggle to create any sort of meaningful social connection

You chose the wrong fucking "franchise" because we seem to be everything that you hate. 

I get how you did it, a quick search for PL Club with most history & up popped LFC & you saw how magnificent we all are and thought "I'll have a bit of that".

But we're a bad fit, really fucking bad judging by your posts, a better one would be Chelsea or maybe even Millwall, so you know  :wanker
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Offline kloppismydad

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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #947 on: March 23, 2024, 03:07:11 pm »
It would be useful if you knew when the actual Emergency was  :duh

My mistake. I conflated the Emergency with the anti-Sikh riots which took place in 1984.

That was another government going after minorities. A Congress, "liberal" government. I guess that's the alternative people here want to the BJ party.
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Offline west_london_red

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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #948 on: March 23, 2024, 05:50:20 pm »
My mistake. I conflated the Emergency with the anti-Sikh riots which took place in 1984.

That was another government going after minorities. A Congress, "liberal" government. I guess that's the alternative people here want to the BJ party.

So I could just as easily throw 2002 back at anyone using that argument.

Some context for you. I’m Sikh, and in 1984 my grandfather made his first trip abroad, he came to the UK saw his 3 kids who lived here, he saw his second born grandson (me) and then he went back home, his flight leaving the UK on 31st October and landing in New Delhi on the night it all started, and he wasn’t someone who blended in, he was over 6th tall, long beard and turban, always wearing the white kurta pyjama that Sikh men of his generation wore, didn’t speak Hindi, illiterate and 500 miles from Punjab.

For two weeks the assumption was that he was dead, until he was recognised by a man from our village who was visiting his in laws who were from Haryana, that man then contacted my dads brother and him and a few of the villagers headed off to go and bring the old man home. He never really spoke much about what happened over those two weeks, so I don’t have a lot of details but that’s what happened and he’s no longer around for me to ask him.

So am I fan of Congress, no of course not. But if I was eligible to vote in India, I would hold my nose and vote for whoever stood the best chance to getting rid of Modi and the BJP even if that meant voting Congress, that’s how perilous I see the situation as being.
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Offline Bullet500

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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #949 on: March 24, 2024, 04:34:17 am »
Congress is "secular" about whom they kill and throw under the bus. They'll do it to everyone. BJP = Congress + Cow. That's the equation. You have the same kind of people in charge of Congress, BJP, and even AAP. :D

Discussions about emergency are deflections at this point. People who played a part back then aren't even electorally alive.

Offline Bullet500

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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #950 on: March 26, 2024, 06:28:44 am »

Offline Bullet500

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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #951 on: March 28, 2024, 08:59:42 am »
"How a Guwahati DJ was held captive by her family to stop her marriage to a Muslim man. The disappearance and rescue – after three months – of popular DJ Damini Bhajanka has left many questions about the role of the Assam police." - https://scroll.in/article/1065778/how-a-guwahati-dj-was-held-captive-by-her-family-to-stop-her-marriage-to-a-muslim-man

Absolute mockery of law and order.

Offline masher

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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #952 on: March 28, 2024, 09:37:48 pm »
So am I fan of Congress, no of course not. But if I was eligible to vote in India, I would hold my nose and vote for whoever stood the best chance to getting rid of Modi and the BJP even if that meant voting Congress, that’s how perilous I see the situation as being.

For whats its worth, I didn’t vote for BJP in 2014 or 2019. But I would rather chew glass than vote for Congress till the family is in charge.

The reason I didn’t vote for the BJP is because I don’t like the religious overtones in their politics but Congress or other opposition parties are hardly secular or demonstrate liberal democratic values that I hope for. A couple of examples for this would be that in 2011 Congress filed sedition cases against 3500 farmers for protesting against the construction of a nuclear power plant in Tamil Nadu. In 2019 the Congress government in Chhattisgarh filed a sedition case against an individual for a face book post criticizing the government for frequent power shedding in the summer. In Bengal TMC arrested a journalist for tweeting a cartoon of the Chief minister. These parties also regularly ask the Muslims to vote on religious lines for them and they pander to Hindus by tweeting pictures of their religious devotion when it suits them.

I don’t have to like the BJP to argue that since 2014 there isn’t any decline in individual freedom or India as a democracy because its simply not true. If that was the case then BJP would not have lost half the elections it has contested since 2014.

Modi is incredibly popular and will single handedly win BJP the elections, he easily adds 10% vote share to BJP’s kitty in the national election. However BJP regularly loses state and local body elections, but don’t those get as much attention as national elections do.

I also don’t have to like Modi to argue that the reason he wins the elections is not because Indians have suddenly become communal since 2014 and vote on religious lines. He is winning largely because his welfare policies have benefitted the poor and his direct benefit scheme delivers those benefit without corruption. This is a massive change in the state’s ability to deliver services to the citizens and have made him very popular. Add to that BJP is a well oiled organization that is able to effectively target and get their voters to polling booths on Election Day - can’t begrudge them for being competent.

While his economic performance isn’t spectacular the economy has been largely stable and growing at a decent pace. People still remember the rampant inflation and a virtually bankrupt banking system under the previous regime.

Despite his popularity Modi isn’t infallible- there are number of areas I personally believe his track record and core voter base can be attacked, but for some reason which is beyond me the opposition don’t seem to do so.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2024, 09:55:24 pm by masher »

Offline Bullet500

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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #953 on: March 29, 2024, 12:47:27 am »
A couple of examples for this would be that in 2011 Congress filed sedition cases against 3500 farmers for protesting against the construction of a nuclear power plant in Tamil Nadu.
Kundankulam nuclear power plant? That is Jayalalitha's government. AIDMK was technically a soft Hindutva party if there's such a thing in Tamil Nadu politics. Misuse of sedition law? Yeah, if there's anything that's Indian culture then it's having ambiguous and broad laws to target people whimsically. In fact, the current BJP government does it more and has been creating more draconian laws.

What you could actually criticise Congress is for putting people like Aseem Trivedi behind the bars during the Anna Hazare movement. But the same thing happens now and perhaps worse. ;) Speaking of Hazare, there was a recent video of him criticising Kejriwal which ANI tweeted and he's listening to whispers and repeating. When you need this guy for propaganda against the current opposition, he's always eating and healthy.

but for some reason which is beyond me the opposition don’t seem to do so.
ohh, opposition is doing their best but the media is very partisan now. Openly dehumanises people - something which was never the case in India. That's exactly what people are worried. Of course, then there is a set of half-educated 'uncles' who think "opposition is not doing anything".

Offline itihasas

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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #954 on: March 29, 2024, 02:41:17 am »
ohh, opposition is doing their best but the media is very partisan now.

Tabling a manifesto that reads like a fast-track to Venezuela or Argentina is not "doing their best". Emphasizing caste divisions in a backward attempt to stop the waves of Hindus (including Dalits I might add) migrating to the BJP is not "doing their best" .Spinning Hinduism as a colonial culture to stop the the success of the BJP in bringing tribals under their umbrella is madness. The Tamil Nadu politicians emphasizing their "otherness" and tying their colors to the ideology of Periyar is laughable though perhaps I can forgive them as they focus on development and are genuinely focussed on bettering the station of their people. The TMC under Mamata are just as if not more fascist and violent than the BJP. The Karnataka government coming out and saying "there is no money for development" whilst Congress deputy CM is worth an estimated 20 billion in black money is a travesty. Finally, the Kerala government lauded for their high literacy rates and women empowerment doing nothing about every youth in Kerala migrating to other states and the Gulf for employment where they are treated worse than dogs and an economy built on remittances whilst shunning industry is a government on borrowed time.

There is no need for "propaganda" when this is the state of the opposition and if this is the opposition "doing their best" then their demolition will be met with a thunderous applause from the majority of the Indian public.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2024, 02:58:59 am by itihasas »
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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #955 on: March 29, 2024, 04:48:07 am »
Emphasizing caste divisions in a backward attempt to stop the waves of Hindus (including Dalits I might add) migrating to the BJP is not "doing their best" .
Caste mathematics is the reality of Indian politics because it's the reality of Indian culture (ofc it stems from Hindu culture because that's why South Asians of other religions still have caste). The next level is religion, surely. I am from a state where the entire BJP politics is based on collectively going against one or two castes :D and it's a mess right now.

Finally, the Kerala government lauded for their high literacy rates and women empowerment doing nothing about every youth in Kerala migrating to other states and the Gulf for employment where they are treated worse than dogs and an economy built on remittances whilst shunning industry is a government on borrowed time.
ohh, can definitely talk about Kerala in detail. The Indians who get treated as 'dogs in gelf' are very unlikely to be from Kerala. Keralites are very unlikely to be indentured labour in the gulf. Remittances do not account towards GDP and still Kerala has comparable GDP per capita to the very industrial Gujarat. Furthermore, Kerala is ahead in every social, health and education parameter. Literacy? Life expectancy? Gender ratio? Children health? You name it.

Never understood Kerala se logo ki itni kyu jalti hai. ;D
« Last Edit: March 29, 2024, 04:58:08 am by Bullet500 »

Offline itihasas

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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #956 on: March 29, 2024, 06:29:17 am »
Caste mathematics is the reality of Indian politics because it's the reality of Indian culture (ofc it stems from Hindu culture because that's why South Asians of other religions still have caste).

ohh, can definitely talk about Kerala in detail. The Indians who get treated as 'dogs in gelf' are very unlikely to be from Kerala. Keralites are very unlikely to be indentured labour in the gulf. Remittances do not account towards GDP and still Kerala has comparable GDP per capita to the very industrial Gujarat. Furthermore, Kerala is ahead in every social, health and education parameter. Literacy? Life expectancy? Gender ratio? Children health? You name it.

Never understood Kerala se logo ki itni kyu jalti hai. ;D

1) The difference being the BJP seeks to turn that on it's head and reduce the amount of entropy where as the "opposition" would prefer the feudal structures to line their own pockets and keep power. One is venturing bravely into the unknown, the other exhibits a timid cowardice and sticks to shore and is simply unable to cater to the awakening and ambition of the Dharmic soul

2) Another spectacular own goal is the "opposition" attacking the Hindu culture due to caste (rightly so) then relying on it during elections but incapable of giving credit where it is due (and there is much to be grateful for the Sanātana Dharma). Then they hide behind platitudes of "All cultures are equal" and any criticism of other cultures brushed of as -phobic. Let us be frank, there is no "propaganda" to blame here apart from their own inconsistencies. The  confluence of philosophers, ascetics, poets and writers that have shaped the broad arcs of the Sanātana Dharma are the greatest in the history of humankind. One book of Hindu philosophy alone goes further in explaining the human condition than any library from anywhere.

What is here can be found elsewhere, what is not can be found nowhere - Mahābhārata

3) Remittances do not count towards GDP but money doesn't vanish when it enters Kerala. It boosts the purchasing power of the households that receive it and their spending in housing, education, comforts etc boost the numbers from the service sector. No wonder there is an influx of Northern migrants to Kerala to work these service jobs. The outward migration of Malyalees dwarfs the outward migration from neighbouring states like Karnataka and Tamil Nadu which actually produce something of value. I am a Kannadiga, from Bengaluru and in hospitality the bulk of the workers are Nepalis, North-Easterners and Malyalees. If Kerala is so great then you wonder what the Malyalees are doing with members from the poorest regions of India and Nepal where the per-capita income is ~25% that of Kerala. All just a mirage that one day will crumble.

4) Kerala is run by communists so it is no surprise people fume at the propaganda that originates from that region especially when they tout them as an economic model to follow though their success in social indicators have been impressive. The communists were always good at that and we can take inspiration from their centralized re-engineering of society to emancipate women but  we've all also seen first hand what the communists did in Bengal and what their power vaccuum produced in the TMC. What was once the cultural capital of the sub-continent now reduced to being one of its armpits.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2024, 03:07:15 am by itihasas »
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Offline Bullet500

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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #957 on: March 29, 2024, 07:08:07 am »
1) The difference being the BJP seeks to turn that on it's head and reduce the amount of entropy where as the "opposition" would prefer the feudal structures to line their own pockets and keep power. One is venturing bravely into the unknown, the other exhibits a timid cowardice and sticks to shore and is simply unable to cater to the awakening and ambition of the Dharmic soul

2) Another spectacular own goal is the "opposition" attacking the Hindu culture due to caste (rightly so) then relying on it during elections but incapable of giving credit where it is due (and there is much to be grateful for the Sanātana Dharma). Then they hide behind platitudes of "All cultures are equal" and any criticism of other cultures brushed of as -phobic. Let us be frank, there is no "propaganda" to blame here apart from their own inconsistencies. The  confluence of philosophers, ascetics, poets and writers that have shaped the broad arcs of the Sanātana Dharma are the greatest in the history of humankind. One book of Hindu philosophy alone goes further in explaining the human condition than any library from anywhere.

What is here can be found elsewhere, what is not can be found nowhere - Mahābhārata
err, it's the same kind of feudal idiots in BJP and the same kind of feudal idiots in Congress.  ;D

The truth is, there is not much to Sanatan Dharma or way of life apart from varnashrama and eventual caste segregation. No matter how people may morph the scriptures now - "ohh it wasn't supposed to be birth based". Now when books that are considered 'smriti' have some crap, people say.. "ohh, shruti have the authority".

3) Remittances do not count towards GDP but money doesn't vanish when it enters Kerala. It boosts the purchasing power of the households that receive it and their spending in housing, education, comforts etc boost the numbers from the service sector. No wonder there is an influx of Northern migrants to Kerala to work these service jobs. The outward migration of Malyalees dwarfs the outward migration from neighbouring states like Karnataka and Tamil Nadu which actually produce something of value. I am a Kannadiga, from Bengaluru and in hospitality the bulk of the workers are Nepalis, North-Easterners and Malyalees. If Kerala is so great then you wonder what the Malyalees are doing with members from the poorest regions of India and Nepal where the per-capita income is ~25% that of Kerala. All just a mirage that one day will crumble.
Industry's share of Kerala's GDP = 23%
Industry's share of Karnataka's GDP = 19%

Not bad. Pretty much the Karnataka level. And, there is no harm in movement of labour. There are a lot of people from BJP-ruled states like Uttar Pradesh and Madhya Pradesh working in South India, absolutely nothing wrong with it.

Let's look at Karnataka's remittances for a non-COVID year for example: https://www.livemint.com/news/india/the-pandemic-impact-on-remittances-11658171745218.html (premium article, so here's the screenshot - https://i.imgur.com/j3xiqKB.png)

As % of total inward remittances to India:
Kerala - 19%
Karnatala - 15%

Not that big of a difference in the two things you claimed. The good thing about Kerala is that it doesn't have poverty like North Karnataka does.

4) Kerala is run by communists so it is no surprise people fume at the propaganda that originates from that region especially when they tout them as an economic model to follow though their success in social indicators have been impressive. The communists were always good at that and we can take inspiration from their centralized re-engineering of society to emancipate women but  we've all also seen first hand what the communists did in Bengal and what their power vaccuum produced in the TMC. What was once the cultural capital of the sub-continent now reduced to being one of its armpits.
What Bengal has suffered from is Bhodrolok culture. Commies didn't do enough to eradicate it.

Offline Bullet500

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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #958 on: March 29, 2024, 07:17:23 am »
Sources for GDP numbers:

Kerala - https://prsindia.org/budgets/states/kerala-budget-analysis-2022-23, https://prsindia.org/budgets/states/kerala-budget-analysis-2023-24)
Karnataka - https://prsindia.org/budgets/states/karnataka-budget-analysis-2023-24

I mean, you wrote a wall of text without much substance. The numbers didn't back up any of your claims.

If you were to talk about how most ISIS fighters from India happened to be from Kerala, then now we are talking. :D

Offline Bullet500

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Re: India - deteriorating?
« Reply #959 on: March 29, 2024, 03:02:58 pm »
"The Congress party received a notice of over Rs 1,800 crore from the Income Tax Department after the Delhi High Court rejected its pleas against tax reassessment." - https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/congress-served-rs-1700-crore-income-tax-notice-after-court-rejects-pleas-against-tax-reassessment-2520625-2024-03-29