Topic: Comolli: Only 1or 2 adjustments in the summer

[PhilAnderer]

Carroll is improving even though at a very slow rate.

Ah yes, he's improving. To quote people in the game: "He's looking more 'up for it' and 'putting himself about a bit more'."
'Putting yourself about a bit more' like he did at Newcastle doesn't hide his lack of natural ability. "Give him a run of games" is another cliche. How many more points do we have to sacrifice in the hope he'll suddenly turn into Pele overnight. I don't think he'll make it at LFC, we've had a long look at him, we've seen enough, now it's time to move him on.

[LiamG]

Ah yes, he's improving. To quote people in the game: "He's looking more 'up for it' and 'putting himself about a bit more'."
'Putting yourself about a bit more' like he did at Newcastle doesn't hide his lack of natural ability. "Give him a run of games" is another cliche. How many more points do we have to sacrifice in the hope he'll suddenly turn into Pele overnight. I don't think he'll make it at LFC, we've had a long look at him, we've seen enough, now it's time to move him on.

]

Please go look at other players similar to him and check when they really started doing the business#

actually, look at this
http://cdn.tomkinstimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/Strikers-chart.jpg

[The G in Gerrard]

]

Please go look at other players similar to him and check when they really started doing the business#

actually, look at this
http://cdn.tomkinstimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/Strikers-chart.jpg

That's all well and good but did we need an established striker at the time of selling Torres or "an upcoming striker"?

[Ryan M]

It's a shame Shaqiri was insistent on moving to Germany because Muniain is off the market now, he's to high profile for us to afford. I understand Shaqiri's motives, just wished we made a major PR push for him.

Hopefully from this summer our scouting network will be able to find the future stars and not just the big profile ones, either British or foreign.

Every summer the same words of 'it's a big summer' get mentioned, however we seem to be on the right track but we can still make massive strides!

[muyuu]

]

Please go look at other players similar to him and check when they really started doing the business#

actually, look at this
http://cdn.tomkinstimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/Strikers-chart.jpg

That chart is sorely missing Ibrahimovic.

[Carlito Roberto]

It's a shame Shaqiri was insistent on moving to Germany because Muniain is off the market now, he's to high profile for us to afford. I understand Shaqiri's motives, just wished we made a major PR push for him.

Hopefully from this summer our scouting network will be able to find the future stars and not just the big profile ones, either British or foreign.

Every summer the same words of 'it's a big summer' get mentioned, however we seem to be on the right track but we can still make massive strides!

For the first time in years last summer was to an intents and purposes a 'big summer' in terms of money spent. The problem is we simply didn't spend the money wisely enough. When I think about the £80m spent on Carroll, Henderson, Downing and Adam it makes me sad.

[LiamG]

That's all well and good but did we need an established striker at the time of selling Torres or "an upcoming striker"?

It depends, Is Kenny building a team for the future? Whils we would all love instant success sometimes you have to be patient

[Bjinxi]

]

Please go look at other players similar to him and check when they really started doing the business#

actually, look at this
http://cdn.tomkinstimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/Strikers-chart.jpg

Interesting chart... and some usuable data BUT what it tells me is that we were IDIOTS paying 35m for a player who had scored about 16goals and was injured when we bought him.

Just looking at other players Torres, Rooney, Fowler, Owen, Defoe, Cisse, Anelka, Messi, Adebayor, Morientes and even Keane already had a very good goalscoring record at 22.

But on the other hand there are/were players with similar stats to Carroll...

but its not only about goals... Its about much more, like movement, awareness, creating chances or space for others to use., and I havent seen that often enough from Carroll...

It might be true that Carroll can still turn out very good for us but after 18month I expected much more of him and not only the odd good performance... And of course I support him but so far I unfortunately have not so much hope that he is the right player for us and wont ever be..

[LiamG]

Just looking at other players Torres, Rooney, Fowler, Owen, Defoe, Cisse, Anelka, Messi, Adebayor, Morientes and even Keane already had a very good goalscoring record at 22.

You cant really compare those players with Carroll, Completley different types of players

[The G in Gerrard]

It depends, Is Kenny building a team for the future? Whils we would all love instant success sometimes you have to be patient

Not saying there's a guarantee for success had we bought an established striker, just that the players we have purchased in last the twelve months, there seems to be question marks on there ability to perform at a level required to succeed.

[dernaroy]

Fair enough. In my opinion Podolski is a world class player with the ability to score on a regular basis.

Podolski is world class?

What is your definition of world class? People throw this term around a lot. For me, when you describe someone as world class I like to think of a theoretical 22 man World squad. And the question is can you make a reasonable case for this player to be included in this squad? If you can make that argument then that is world class for me.

Podolski world class? Van Persie is currently a world class striker, Torres and Henry were world class in their prime. Messi, Ronaldo, Xavi, Iniesta these are all world class players. Rooney is world class, Stevie was world class and may still be.

Podolski is not world class.

[LiamG]

Not saying there's a guarantee for success had we bought an established striker, just that the players we have purchased in last the twelve months, there seems to be question marks on there ability to perform at a level required to succeed.

I see your point, But Kenny and Comolli must have enough trust in the players they signed to be able to make us achieve more

[Didi_ram]

I dont think that the club should be affected by the number of years that it will take for Andy to become class.At present,he isnt,and we need a top striker who can do the job now.We cant wait for Andy to become prolific.He can be in the squad,and get enough chances to prove his worth,but there must be a proper goalscorer in our eleven who can do well for us now.If in 2-3 years,Andy becomes that good,then all the better for us.

[hulksagoodboy]

I dont think that the club should be affected by the number of years that it will take for Andy to become class.At present,he isnt,and we need a top striker who can do the job now.We cant wait for Andy to become prolific.He can be in the squad,and get enough chances to prove his worth,but there must be a proper goalscorer in our eleven who can do well for us now.If in 2-3 years,Andy becomes that good,then all the better for us.

 

Think that would be a complete waste to even bother keeping him if that is the case.

[Mutton Geoff]

Is it depressing that this Bilbao team cost less than Andy Carroll?

No it is a different market and keeping players when they dont score as a youngster and supporting them, however nice soundbite.

[Mutton Geoff]

LFC if are serious to get to TOP4 and not just stopping there need a REAL SHAKE UP

Throw OUT CARROLL ,HENDERSON & ENRIQUE FOR SURE...
 
Get a Cover for Skrtel --- like Coates for AGGER.

BRING ALBA / KOLAROV   (5-7m)   ------for LB

LUCAS will be fit next season but we do need a BACKUP for him as well who can come in HANDY to cover for GERRARD as well ---- TINO COSTA (10-12m)

ADAM is not consistent enough for 1st team ---- EVER BANEGA (15-16m) or AQUILANI (our own)

MUNIAIN or HAZARD as they both can play LEFT & RIGHT and could either take place of DOWNING or SUB for either DOWNING/ KUYT.

MOST IMPORTANTLY A STRIKER WHO CAN SCORE GOALS
--------CARROLL surely has to go if LFC want to save them from embarrassment

-------SUAREZ is not a GOAL scorer & has his own problems if I'll get 45-50m from PSG I'll sell him and BRING HUNTELAAR 14-15m  ,LORENTE 10-12m ,CAVANI 35m ,ROSSI 16m

this 40-65m will make a HUGE Difference when compared to COMOLI'S 100m

who thinks this guy is Kosher?

[Sangria]

I dont think that the club should be affected by the number of years that it will take for Andy to become class.At present,he isnt,and we need a top striker who can do the job now.We cant wait for Andy to become prolific.He can be in the squad,and get enough chances to prove his worth,but there must be a proper goalscorer in our eleven who can do well for us now.If in 2-3 years,Andy becomes that good,then all the better for us.

Carroll will probably become a better striker all-round given time. The problem is his type of player takes time to develop, and in terms of investment of resources including time and game time and not just money, we'd have been better off waiting for him to do his development elsewhere. A general rule of thumb is to look for younger players with pace, older players with strength.

[Didi_ram]

Podolski is world class?

What is your definition of world class? People throw this term around a lot. For me, when you describe someone as world class I like to think of a theoretical 22 man World squad. And the question is can you make a reasonable case for this player to be included in this squad? If you can make that argument then that is world class for me.

Podolski world class? Van Persie is currently a world class striker, Torres and Henry were world class in their prime. Messi, Ronaldo, Xavi, Iniesta these are all world class players. Rooney is world class, Stevie was world class and may still be.

Podolski is not world class.

World class or not,way way way better than many players we have at our club.A wide forward with a nearly 1 in 2 ratio for Germany after 95 caps.And a player with a 1 in 2.5 ratio or thereabouts in his club career.A player who has stepped up in big games for Germany.And the lad isnt even 27.Podolski isnt a Henry,but he'd deffo be a player we could do with considering the price that Arsenal are paying.Wenger knows how to pull off these bargains all day long.
Screw his attitude and what he does to Nuri Sahin.Man Utd,Man City,Chelsea,every freaking club have temperamental arses who can still produce the goods when needed.
Many of us here think that we can get the Cavanis and the Hazards.In reality,3 players of Podolski's quality and price,and we'd be flying.
And none of those world class players you talk about will be playing for a 6th/7th place league team.

[Didi_ram]

Think that would be a complete waste to even bother keeping him if that is the case.

I'd say keep him,there'll be injuries to either Suarez or a new striker,there may be suspensions,and we cannot afford to take a 20m hit on him.He will come good,and like many other players in other clubs,he may take time but will ultimately blossom.

[Didi_ram]

Carroll will probably become a better striker all-round given time. The problem is his type of player takes time to develop, and in terms of investment of resources including time and game time and not just money, we'd have been better off waiting for him to do his development elsewhere. A general rule of thumb is to look for younger players with pace, older players with strength.

We definitely jumped the gun,and you're absolutely right there..
The late Torres screw up absolutely rattled us.Even if we had 15 days,we wouldnt have messed up like this.We'd probably have ultimately bought Llorente or Benzema after strong negotiations.

[Sangria]

We definitely jumped the gun,and you're absolutely right there..
The late Torres screw up absolutely rattled us.Even if we had 15 days,we wouldnt have messed up like this.We'd probably have ultimately bought Llorente or Benzema after strong negotiations.

I'd have preferred a pacey technical forward from abroad, and a plan B of an experienced target man from the lower divisions. While you can't guarantee anything, you'd stand a better chance of getting something right with that train of thought, and for less money. For technique, look abroad. For ruggedness, look at home, especially in the lower leagues. Deviate from this only in exceptional cases where the footballing brain is clearly there. Bring through your own to blur the lines. Cheap youngsters you've brought through who can be at all useful in some capacity should be retained until they're clearly made obsolete by a squad depth that makes them pointless.

[subroc]

It depends, Is Kenny building a team for the future? Whils we would all love instant success sometimes you have to be patient

It is true for life, business and football that you build for the future while providing for the present first - otherwise you will not have a future. For example, without procuring CL football, you cannot get better players in. You cannot get better sponsorship deals. You cannot get more TV money. You cannot get stadium financing. Football is a tough business and a tough world. The strong gets stronger and the weak and incompetent get shunted out fast.

For 35M, no manager - even if he is Real Madrid's manager - will look to just signing "just potential". He has to be able to perform now or it's not a smart deal for the club.

[subroc]

Football is changing, you can see most teams now try to play at a much higher tempo regardless of formations, etc. We added pace to our team but the players we bought made us play at a much slower tempo. This why we don't score enough goals because we don't play quick enough to create easy chances. Back end of last season we really didn't have any finisher but we played the ball really quick when we got to the opposition box and had lots of movement helping us create lots of tap ins for Maxi and Kuyt.

Have we bought pace? Who are the pacey players who were signed over the summer? Downing is not pacey - he is moderately fast for a winger,. that's all. Henderson is not fast. Adam sure isn't fast. Enrique is reasonably fast, but he is not terrifically fast. Coates sure isn't that fast. Only Bellamy is fast. And he can only play 1 in 2 matches, typically.

[subroc]

Exactly, Llorente is at his peak.

Bilbao are also a great side and actually have tons of fucking players running off/supporting Llorente when he is holding the ball up, unlike us at this current time.

The real problem is that we are not a pass an dmove side at all. If Bilbao had played us, they woul dhave torn us apart. We play like a Championship team that has Premiership footballers - push and run football, long balls, crosses from the wings, and the occasional solo run by Suarez. There is no cohesiveness in and around the penalty area to our play and to our movement. We are static. We ball watch. Why is it that people here keep on repeating that "we create lots of chances" but fail to notice that lack of movement?

[The G in Gerrard]

The real problem is that we are not a pass an dmove side at all.

Weren't we under first 6 months of Kenny's return?

[subroc]

Not sure why we're even considering Bilbao players at this point.

a) their value has sky-rocketed this season, we knew some of them were gems long ago and didn't do anything about it
b) the lesson here is to give the manager time - how many big signings have Bilbao made in the recent years? just one: Ander Herrera (£7M) and that's their biggest buy ever

Their success comes from doing the exact opposite of going on a panic shopping spree every transfer season looking for instant success.

No, their secret is rather the way they play. Pass and move. The European way. The way that Shankly taught Liverpool FC to play after they were humbled in Europe when they first started to play there. And because they play pass and move, they only sign pass and move players. Just like Barcelona. Intelligent players who have been schooled from young to pass and move as a team.

We have regressed into a long ball, push and run traditional English team. We signed traditional english-style footballers instead of pass and move players. We get rid of the best pass and move players in our team - Aquilani and Meireles. So is it any surprise that we score so few goals and why there are always so few Liverpool players in the box. And why the only Liverpool players in the box are typically the only pass and move players we have - Kuyt, Suarez, Rodriguez.

[dernaroy]

World class or not,way way way better than many players we have at our club.A wide forward with a nearly 1 in 2 ratio for Germany after 95 caps.And a player with a 1 in 2.5 ratio or thereabouts in his club career.A player who has stepped up in big games for Germany.And the lad isnt even 27.Podolski isnt a Henry,but he'd deffo be a player we could do with considering the price that Arsenal are paying.Wenger knows how to pull off these bargains all day long.
Screw his attitude and what he does to Nuri Sahin.Man Utd,Man City,Chelsea,every freaking club have temperamental arses who can still produce the goods when needed.
Many of us here think that we can get the Cavanis and the Hazards.In reality,3 players of Podolski's quality and price,and we'd be flying.
And none of those world class players you talk about will be playing for a 6th/7th place league team.

My argument was simply about how you can't describe Podolski as world class but anyway...

Nearly 1 in 2 for Germany? Is that really significant? Robbie Keane has the same record for Ireland (53 in 115), an inferior team who create less opportunities.

To be honest, I agree he might have been worth the gamble for us but I'll not go singing Wenger's praises for this apparent 'coup' just yet. Lots on here were crying their eyes out when we missed out on Chamahk to Wenger and look how that worked out - the jury is out on Podolski, only time will tell.

One thing's for certain, if he is being brought in as RVP's replacement rather than Chamahk's then Arsenal are f**ked.

[GBF]

Have we bought pace? Who are the pacey players who were signed over the summer? Downing is not pacey - he is moderately fast for a winger,. that's all. Henderson is not fast. Adam sure isn't fast. Enrique is reasonably fast, but he is not terrifically fast. Coates sure isn't that fast. Only Bellamy is fast. And he can only play 1 in 2 matches, typically.

liverpool does not play with pace, I do not know how much of kenny's team you've watched lately.  If you did, you will notice that the team motivation is the slow down the game and take control - not take the ball and run as fast as you can a-la Walcott.

[redk84]

the way i look at it...buying carroll was a risk....and a mistake.

He hardly played in the remainder of the season....alot of money was spent unnecessarily. But thats neither here nor there....its in the past.

He's here now and he looks like he can be a good prospect....with some more gametime, confidence and hard work in training he can be very good for us. He has shown signs recently and long may it continue.

The technically gifted sort is what we need to replace Maxi/bolster our attack....preferably young...but able to make an instant impact too. I know there was a shitload on show last night with Bilbao....fantastic team that is....but there are gems out there...we just gotta get at least one. It was all good buying a british base last summer....now we have to mix it up with foreign talent. It can even improve them hopefully....

Mata, silva, modric, muniain, hazard.....not them specifically but these types of player....as well as the obvious striker.

that would me my 2 priority buys.....a winger, dm, defensive cover would come after...

[subroc]

Weren't we under first 6 months of Kenny's return?

We were more of a pass and move team then. But even then we were not that healthy. And look at the way we are now. It boggles the mind how people can be happy with the clueless way we play an dhow we perennially leave carroll with no other liverpool player near him for at least 20 yards. Of course he makes it worse with his static movement, but what do we expect him to do, especially with 2 centrebacks sandwiching him at all times? And there are two centrebacks shadowing him because no one else has come in to support and draw them away.

[Mutton Geoff]

Hugo football is faster and less skillfull in general discounting your Barca, the standard of ball retention from Milan against Arsenal was evidence of this. Agreed  the days are gone for most teams when a decent playmaker is given the time and space to orchestrate a game as the old masters had.

But the game hasnt really changed elements in it are currently in vogue thats all. The object is to score one more than your opponent in a normal game, how you do it can be beautiful or ugly, lucky or a freak goal, ( Sprake throwing it in his own net comes to mind here) i think with more TV, You Tube, etc too many of you dont just want to win a game you want it to be a work of art as well, almost the Wenger philosophy of the perfect goal in every game.

 Andy is a bettering ram type of player with some skill but can at times not be so good on the eye, however given time he will get goals and create them. He is an artisan not an artist but all teams need artisans.

Me i will take a few lucky wins with goals coming off people backsides and playing ugly football so long as we score one more than the other team

[subroc]

liverpool does not play with pace, I do not know how much of kenny's team you've watched lately.  If you did, you will notice that the team motivation is the slow down the game and take control - not take the ball and run as fast as you can a-la Walcott.

You misunderstood my post. I was actually responding to another poster who said that we have added pace to the team. I was questioning where is the pace that was added over the summer? Only Bellamy. We can't play with pace anyway as we don't have any to speak of.

As for taking control, exchanging passes at the centre circle is not taking control. Other teams are happy to stand off us and we are lulled into a misconception that we are pushing them back and controling the game. That is what Arsenal did against us - they knew that and played counterattacking football and waited for us to break them down, knowing that we are weak in that.

We are not threatening the other side until we start to draw away their defenders with clever movement and quick short passing, and advance into the penalty area with several players in danger areas to provide options for the final assist.

[Ryan M]

For the first time in years last summer was to an intents and purposes a 'big summer' in terms of money spent. The problem is we simply didn't spend the money wisely enough. When I think about the £80m spent on Carroll, Henderson, Downing and Adam it makes me sad.

Henderson I believe has the potential to be play for Liverpool, but struggles at times. To help him, like any young player, we need to start preparing him in central midfield give him time because he is, understandably, inconsistent.

Adam blows to hot and cold to be considered a regular first teamer.

However the Carroll & Downing partnership has been dissapointing. Especially considering the general consensous was that Andy was a risk because of his injury & Downing has always been judged never to have the ability to play at the top level. Hopefully this changes but I think this needs addressing in the summer.

Since we finished 2nd we have really bought poorly at times. The total money of Aquilani, Carroll, Downing & possibly even Henderson (short term), only Suarez looks like the top player at the moment we bought for expensive money.

This summer our philosophy and transfer strategy needs to be assessed because it hasn't been as good as it could have been.

[Quintet]

Muniain after that performance has probably become another eden hazard- unobtainable for us.

[Danyaals Kop]

CAVANI 35m

Fuck youse FM wet-dreaming tit.

[Didi_ram]

Muniain after that performance has probably become another eden hazard- unobtainable for us.

After the Euros,another 10 will be unavailable like that   

[subroc]

After the Euros,another 10 will be unavailable like that   

I have no problem with the club spending another 35M on a player as long as he is actually going to produce 35M level performance.

[chanti]

Am I the only one coming on this thread expecting a big name signing :-)

[greytop11]

No m8 your not on your own. I'm pretty sure the 1 or 2 summer signings have already been agreed and i reckon they are gonna be real "GAME CHANGERS" ;-)

[Vinay]

Not sure why we're even considering Bilbao players at this point.

a) their value has sky-rocketed this season, we knew some of them were gems long ago and didn't do anything about it
b) the lesson here is to give the manager time - how many big signings have Bilbao made in the recent years? just one: Ander Herrera (£7M) and that's their biggest buy ever

Their success comes from doing the exact opposite of going on a panic shopping spree every transfer season looking for instant success.

Dare I say it? Because among other things, Dalglish is no Bielsa. It is Bielsa behind all the work, as Rafa was behind an ailing Liverpool. True that you cannot turn a sow's ear into a silk purse, but with decent quality, a very good manager (hence the reference to Bielsa), a goodish team can become magnificent.