Topic: Brexit. the Con continues

[Zeb]

Just been listening to the Lords while sorting a few things out. Government are going to need Fox and Botham to turn up to vote I reckon. The rest, at least from the questions asked, are seething about the very idea of a government breaking a law. Loved the question about NI too. "Why is the government spending £300m to provide customs offices for a border which it says won't exist?"

[oldfordie]

The government had better start reconsidering fast, if this was some sort of game to lay any blame for NI on others then it looks like backfiring badly.

UK has already breached withdrawal agreement, EU lawyers say

Britain has already breached the withdrawal agreement by tabling the internal market bill, prompting Brussels to plan legal action that could lead to financial and trade sanctions, according to a leaked EU legal opinion.

The European commission believes Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson’s government breached the terms of the treaty just by taking the first steps to pass a new law that would negate key parts of the agreement signed last year.

“Already by tabling the draft bill and pursuing the policy expressed therein, the UK government is in violation of the good faith obligation under the withdrawal agreement (article 5) because this bill jeopardises the attainment of the objectives of the agreement”, the commission lawyers write.

The commission has advised the 27 EU capitals that there are therefore grounds for the bloc to take “legal remedies” through the European court of Justice before the end of the transition period, leading to significant fines or potential trade sanctions.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/sep/10/fears-grow-that-uk-is-preparing-to-quit-brexit-talks

[Ray K]

So how has the European Commission reacted to the latest proposals:

"The EU does not accept the argument that the aim of the draft Bill is to protect the Good Friday (Belfast) Agreement. In fact, it is of the view that it does the opposite."


Yep, the EU says in an official communique that the UK govt is actively damaging the GFA.   Classic Dom.

[12C]

So how has the European Commission reacted to the latest proposals:

"The EU does not accept the argument that the aim of the draft Bill is to protect the Good Friday (Belfast) Agreement. In fact, it is of the view that it does the opposite."


Yep, the EU says in an official communique that the UK govt is actively damaging the GFA.   Classic Dom.

This guy is a law professor from Cambridge Uni

https://twitter.com/profmarkelliott/status/1304076133827309569?s=21

A good thread

Loads of lawyers on Twitter saying Basically how crap Suella is at this lawyering.

[Jiminy Cricket]

This guy is a law professor from Cambridge Uni

https://twitter.com/profmarkelliott/status/1304076133827309569?s=21

A good thread

Loads of lawyers on Twitter saying Basically how crap Suella is at this lawyering.

Even I understood the ridiculousness of Breverman's arguments in her statement before reading Mark Elliott comments taking it apart. How is Breverman a lawyer, let alone AG?

[Riquende]

Even I understood the ridiculousness of Breverman's arguments in her statement before reading Mark Elliott comments taking it apart. How is Breverman a lawyer, let alone AG?

Yep, I was expecting to all be way over my head, but you can see in her third paragraph it can be paraphrased as "The UK in general wants to follow the law, but this is a special case so we're not going to" plus something about parliamentary sovereignty, as if that supercedes international agreements.

I'm off to burgle Braverman's house tonight. In general I don't like commiting crime, but this is a special case. If caught, I intend to appeal to highest court and demand no less than the AG to prosecute me. Also, my mum said it was okay.

[12C]

Even I understood the ridiculousness of Breverman's arguments in her statement before reading Mark Elliott comments taking it apart. How is Breverman a lawyer, let alone AG?

She studied at the Sorbonne. And had 10 years in practice before becoming MP.

[12C]

Yep, I was expecting to all be way over my head, but you can see in her third paragraph it can be paraphrased as "The UK in general wants to follow the law, but this is a special case so we're not going to" plus something about parliamentary sovereignty, as if that supercedes international agreements.

I'm off to burgle Braverman's house tonight. In general I don't like commiting crime, but this is a special case. If caught, I intend to appeal to highest court and demand no less than the AG to prosecute me. Also, my mum said it was okay.

And if you get get caught speeding on the way you can use the Bernard Jenkins loophole “I was in a hurry”

[Circa1892]

May is “not around” for the vote next week.

Cowardly piece of shit.

[Jiminy Cricket]

She studied at the Sorbonne. And had 10 years in practice before becoming MP.

So, is she knowingly writing utter drivel?

The idea that because Parliament is 'sovereign', this negates our obligations to international treaties is ludicrous. If this was the case, all international treaties would be worthless (and not even exist - what would be the point). There will be consequences. The UK was fucked when it Brexited. Truly fucked when COVID came along. Then the government rejected the opportunity to request an extension to the transition period (which almost certainly would have been approved by the EU). Now, with no trade agreement in sight for when the transition period finishes, they go full Everton by proposing their/our obligations to abide by the treaty we signed less than a year ago can be ignored. The UK needed all the good will it could muster - it has fucked it all off. They are certifiable.

[Jiminy Cricket]

May is “not around” for the vote next week.

Cowardly piece of shit.

If she expects to be dead next week, fair enough. Otherwise, she is - as you say - a cowardly turd.

[Zeb]

Pelosi's writing it out in Fisher Price font in the hope that Johnson will understand it more easily.

"What were they thinking? Whatever it is, I hope they're not thinking of a UK-US bilateral trade agreement..."
"These Good Friday accords were just so beautiful and we are not going to have them tampered with, or reward any messing with them, with a bilateral UK-US trade agreement."
"It's a very simple message. They know it, they've heard it... This is not anything we have hidden under a bush. There will be no bilateral US-UK agreement if the Good Friday accords in regard to the border are changed."

(via Telegraph's US Editor here)

Well they've got the fight they obviously wanted to pick but are people going to split along the same lines or is there a point where 'right vs wrong' becomes more important than who's in your tribe?

[oldfordie]

Pelosi's writing it out in Fisher Price font in the hope that Johnson will understand it more easily.

"What were they thinking? Whatever it is, I hope they're not thinking of a UK-US bilateral trade agreement..."
"These Good Friday accords were just so beautiful and we are not going to have them tampered with, or reward any messing with them, with a bilateral UK-US trade agreement."
"It's a very simple message. They know it, they've heard it... This is not anything we have hidden under a bush. There will be no bilateral US-UK agreement if the Good Friday accords in regard to the border are changed."

(via Telegraph's US Editor here)

Well they've got the fight they obviously wanted to pick but are people going to split along the same lines or is there a point where 'right vs wrong' becomes more important than who's in your tribe?

This is amazing when you think about it, you would think the British government would be the people who would be telling the USA and others not to interfer with the GFA just to get a trade deal, nope it's the other way around the USA and other countries are telling us to honour the GFA, Shameful and this lot have the nerve to tell people they should be proud of this country, they obviously don't give a s...

[12C]

If she expects to be dead next week, fair enough. Otherwise, she is - as you say - a cowardly turd.

She can still vote if paired up though?

She was there to vote against Grenfell though. As you say cowardly.

[gazzalfc]

'But Brexit means Brexit'

'We can now be a sovereign nation'

'We make our own laws and wont be dictated by faceless suits in Brussels'

'We are taking back control'

'The issues with the Irish boarder are easy to solve'

The British government has become an LBC phone in show

[TSC]

This is amazing when you think about it, you would think the British government would be the people who would be telling the USA and others not to interfer with the GFA just to get a trade deal, nope it's the other way around the USA and other countries are telling us to honour the GFA, Shameful and this lot have the nerve to tell people they should be proud of this country, they obviously don't give a s...

The GFA was brokered and underpinned by the US, namely then president Bill Clinton and senator George Mitchell.  So unsurprising that the US have firm views on this.  Notwithstanding that, the Irish influence in the US is sizeable and powerful.  Maybe Dom hasn’t considered all that.

[oldfordie]

The GFA was brokered and underpinned by the US, namely then president Bill Clinton and senator George Mitchell.  So unsurprising that the US have firm views on this.  Notwithstanding that, the Irish influence in the US is sizeable and powerful.  Maybe Dom hasn’t considered all that.

Yeah your right but still shocking to see other countries need to tell us to do the right thing for citizens of the UK+republic. it's not just about breaking the law, it's also about the awful impact it will have on the people of Ireland.

[TSC]

Yeah your right but still shocking to see other countries need to tell us to do the right thing for citizens of the UK+republic. it's not just about breaking the law, it's also about the awful impact it will have on the people of Ireland.

Laughable that government peddled the line that it’s action is designed to protect the GFA, only for the EU to quite rightly point out it does the opposite.

[PaulF]

The EU will be begging when we can offer them our world class track and trace. To go hand in hand with our moonshot testing. And the vaccine. They won't like it up em you know.

[oldfordie]

Laughable that government peddled the line that it’s action is designed to protect the GFA, only for the EU to quite rightly point out it does the opposite.

It's hard to work out if they are really so stupid to believe they could con the EU+the USA, the USA gave them fair warning on this 18 months ago.
One thing the EU said from early in the trade negotiations is the UK have not actually put forward any ideas or suggestions to obtain a deal, they look to us to offer them something when we keep telling them it all depends on what red lines your willing to accept, UK come back with well what are you offering. pathetic. maybe that's what it's about, the UK have no solutions for the NI border in the event of a hard brexit so they are threatening to cause havoc in the hope the EU come up with something, won't work though as they did come up  with something, it's called the backstop and we agreed to it when we signed the deal.

[12C]

It's hard to work out if they are really so stupid to believe they could con the EU+the USA, the USA gave them fair warning on this 18 months ago.
One thing the EU said from early in the trade negotiations is the UK have not actually put forward any ideas or suggestions to obtain a deal, they look to us to offer them something when we keep telling them it all depends on what red lines your willing to accept, UK come back with well what are you offering. pathetic. maybe that's what it's about, the UK have no solutions for the NI border in the event of a hard brexit so they are threatening to cause havoc in the hope the EU come up with something, won't work though as they did come up  with something, it's called the backstop and we agreed to it when we signed the deal.

Cummings and Johnson And the thick bastards of the ERG really think they are above the law. They have a mandate to take the country out of the EU. They came up with the oven ready plan simply to win the election. All the Brexit weariness allied with the xenophobic racist crap was solved by the ready deal.
They had no intention of actually complying with the deal once the election was over. They felt that the EU would just be as weary and allow them to drive a tractor through the treaty. Perhaps no deal that was the aim all along.

[killer-heels]

May is “not around” for the vote next week.

Cowardly piece of shit.

Not surprising. She is a Tory c*nt.

[oldfordie]

Cummings and Johnson And the thick bastards of the ERG really think they are above the law. They have a mandate to take the country out of the EU. They came up with the oven ready plan simply to win the election. All the Brexit weariness allied with the xenophobic racist crap was solved by the ready deal.
They had no intention of actually complying with the deal once the election was over. They felt that the EU would just be as weary and allow them to drive a tractor through the treaty. Perhaps no deal that was the aim all along.

I agree with everything you say and imagine there will be people arguing Boris is fighting our corner blah blah. but surely they must realize they've gone too far this time.

[thaddeus]

Cummings and Johnson And the thick bastards of the ERG really think they are above the law. They have a mandate to take the country out of the EU. They came up with the oven ready plan simply to win the election. All the Brexit weariness allied with the xenophobic racist crap was solved by the ready deal.
They had no intention of actually complying with the deal once the election was over. They felt that the EU would just be as weary and allow them to drive a tractor through the treaty. Perhaps no deal that was the aim all along.

I think it's that much more that than thinking the EU would cede just to get *any* deal.

This stunt is a sure fire way to get the EU to walk away from the negotiating table.  The government can then spin it that the EU broke off negotiations despite Britain being very reasonable and pragmatic.  On the face of it that should be an impossible lie to sell but we (British electorate) have swallowed worse from this government already.

[Machae]

Even I understood the ridiculousness of Breverman's arguments in her statement before reading Mark Elliott comments taking it apart. How is Breverman a lawyer, let alone AG?

Every now and then, when someone comes out with some stupid drivel, I like to google to see what they look like, Braverman actually looks clueless.

[oldfordie]

I think it's that much more that than thinking the EU would be cede just to get *any* deal.

This stunt is a sure fire way to get the EU to walk away from the negotiating table.  The government can then spin it that the EU broke off negotiations despite Britain being very reasonable and pragmatic.  On the face of it that should be an impossible lie to sell but we (British electorate) have swallowed worse from this government already.

One of the EU leaders said that's what they think it's about today, they are trying to provoke the EU into walking away from the talks but they are not that stupid as they know the Tories will lay all the blame on the EU for the negotiations collapsing, they are going back to Brussels to discuss a response, probably give us till the end of the month to change our minds he said.

[Circa1892]

The shit new cabinet secretary has told all civil servants they're not in breach of the civil service code in assisting the government breaking the law.

Makes sense why they were so desperate to get rid of Sedwill so quickly now (and gave him some ludicrously high pension as a pay off) - as Javid put it when Sunak took his job "no self respecting" cabinet secretary would do this...

[kennedy81]

The Tories at it again I see. Colour me shocked.

[Circa1892]

King of the c*nts Gove apparently swearing at EU officials today. Spikey little shit.

[Nobby Reserve]

The shit new cabinet secretary has told all civil servants they're not in breach of the civil service code in assisting the government breaking the law.

Makes sense why they were so desperate to get rid of Sedwill so quickly now (and gave him some ludicrously high pension as a pay off) - as Javid put it when Sunak took his job "no self respecting" cabinet secretary would do this...

Right out of the Trump playbook

[TSC]

King of the c*nts Gove apparently swearing at EU officials today. Spikey little shit.

One of the gang of 3, alongside Johnson and Cummings.  Thick as thieves from the ‘leave’ campaign.  Rest of the government are mere sycophants following like lapdogs.

[oldfordie]

King of the c*nts Gove apparently swearing at EU officials today. Spikey little shit.

Seem desperate to provoke them to walk out of the meeting. Cummings cunning plan no doubt..

[Circa1892]

Just weird when it comes down to it that the two "bastions of democracy" have no rules worth their salt.

We are a country run by an unelected fraud who is in contempt of parliament and wasn't granted a security clearance. We have laws we don't respect. Ministerial codes we don't follow. TWO senior ministers sacked just over a year ago for serious national security breaches. We ignore international law. We don't bother doing competitive tender and just give money to mates.

I guess this is what happens when a political system that encourages nepotism and special treatment is allowed to get out of hand. One of the real shitters of having an "unwritten constitution" is that it relies on people not being utter cuntwhomps.

[FiSh77]

Drag the lot of them out of Westminster, string them up and leave them to rot, that includes the so called good ones

[oldfordie]

Drag the lot of them out of Westminster, string them up and leave them to rot, that includes the so called good ones

I know your not being serious but sorry I don't think that's a good thing to say as your giving the really bad lying MPs who don't give a s,, a free pass.
I tore into Johnson talking to a leave voter a few months back, how he's a lying bas,, who only cares about himself. they told me they are all lying bas,, who are in it for themselves as if Johnsons no different from any other MP. long story but they lost the argument.

[Red-Soldier]

The simple facts are that the UK desperately needs a constitution, and the US desperately needs to update theirs, making it fit for the 21st century.  Not forgetting Australia too.

When you don't have fit and proper constitutions, it can result in what we are seeing now.

[Nobby Reserve]

The simple facts are that the UK desperately needs a constitution, and the US desperately needs to update theirs, making it fit for the 21st century.  Not forgetting Australia too.

When you don't have fit and proper constitutions, it can result in what we are seeing now.

Removal of the 2nd Amendment

[Jiminy Cricket]

Removal of the 2nd Amendment

When 2nd Amendment Rights activists use their guns to support Trump in his illegitimate attempt to retain power after he loses the election, they will have shot down their own argument for the 2nd Amendment.

[Nobby Reserve]

When 2nd Amendment Rights activists use their guns to support Trump in his illegitimate attempt to retain power after he loses the election, they will have shot down their own argument for the 2nd Amendment.

 

[So… Howard Philips]

Every now and then, when someone comes out with some stupid drivel, I like to google to see what they look like, Braverman actually looks clueless.

Only overtaken in the clueless stakes by the gormless Helen Whateley MP who seems to have some role in ensuring that care for the elderly is as shite as possible.

She's down as a Minister of State but that must be a misprint.