Topic: DC Mega Topic, it's not the MCU

[Armand9]

Have you never watched The Boys 

good point 

i rarely know where these shows come from to be honest

[Red Beret]

I'm kind of impressed that Cavill is such a nerd. I think it's great that actors can have such creative input and passion in a project.

[killer-heels]

I'm kind of impressed that Cavill is such a nerd. I think it's great that actors can have such creative input and passion in a project.

Can’t get more nerdy than that warhammer stuff either.

[Armand9]

this sweeping house business, i am curious if that's gonna include the crap that is suicide squad movies/cast and the surprisingly ok peacemaker tv show - gunn's own contribution to the DC, cos if he really is going back to zero then you'd imagine that includes all of it

and i did see gunn describe the superman reboot as having a 'cub reporter kent' who hasn't met his collegues yet (ie lois etc - yeah, in no way is this an origin movie...)

superman is hard to write for cos he's so overpowered in an Earth context but easy to write for in an origin/coming out story cos everything is new to that world - it's one of the reasons superman has been done to death via movies and tv shows when it comes to the earlier part of his life

i felt cavill was placed that we can forget all that shit (and this is coming from someone who loves origin movies typically) and we could finally see superman take on more powerful villains in the universe, where he isn't overpowered, his enemies aren't pushovers and a genuine challenge (so we dont have to come up with naff contrivancies, like kryptonite, always hated that)

trouble is if you're going to put that on screen, it's gonna cost you, whereas having clark kent mooch around a contemporary city is as cheap as chips from a major movie release perspective

so i guess we get to see lois say 'you're superman!' all over again 

[NightDancer]

this sweeping house business, i am curious if that's gonna include the crap that is suicide squad movies/cast and the surprisingly ok peacemaker tv show - gunn's own contribution to the DC, cos if he really is going back to zero then you'd imagine that includes all of it

and i did see gunn describe the superman reboot as having a 'cub reporter kent' who hasn't met his collegues yet (ie lois etc - yeah, in no way is this an origin movie...)

superman is hard to write for cos he's so overpowered in an Earth context but easy to write for in an origin/coming out story cos everything is new to that world - it's one of the reasons superman has been done to death via movies and tv shows when it comes to the earlier part of his life

i felt cavill was placed that we can forget all that shit (and this is coming from someone who loves origin movies typically) and we could finally see superman take on more powerful villains in the universe, where he isn't overpowered, his enemies aren't pushovers and a genuine challenge (so we dont have to come up with naff contrivancies, like kryptonite, always hated that)

trouble is if you're going to put that on screen, it's gonna cost you, whereas having clark kent mooch around a contemporary city is as cheap as chips from a major movie release perspective

so i guess we get to see lois say 'you're superman!' all over again 

The current Superman tv shows seems to be able to find a nice balance between Superman coming up against foes that can take a punch from him and reply with one of their own along with him as Clark juggling family life.

[Armand9]

how do these foes match him, generally? genuine question

and superman juggling family life... i hope to fuck that aint the flavour of movie we get

each to their own and all that

[NightDancer]

how do these foes match him, generally? genuine question

and superman juggling family life... i hope to fuck that aint the flavour of movie we get

each to their own and all that

Depends on which one he is up against but a big %  (even some of the villian of the week types) match him in terms of raw power or through sheer numbers, and some after being hit by him do not budge so he has to figure out ways to beat them when he cannot over power them.


As for the family life bit, it actually works for this show as it shows how he has to struggle with being "normal" when not Superman and deal with some family related stuff and threats without slipping on the cape. It also throws in the option of his family being targetted as a way to get at him.

It also does not become an either or type show between Superman and Clark Kent. He is both and the show leans as much on him in the cape as without it.

The show also plays Superman/Clark Kent as sort of a hybrid between the Cavill and Reeves versions in personality, and visually with the costume being close to that of Cavill in design but close to that of Reeves in colour.

Tyler Hoechlin is actually a pretty good pick for the role as he nails both Superman and Clark pretty well. Thought he was a bit crap in the role when he guested on Supergirl, but in this show he has shown he is a very solid Superman/Clark as well as being a pretty good Bizarro.


There is a pretty good live action take on John Irons/Steel too in the show.

[Armand9]

thanks for that mate, appreciated

i gave it a go, a fair few eps of season 1, which i think is a fair shake for a show

not for me, family drama, mopey teen agnst etc, i can't stand that shit, some love it, i hate it

on the superman side he seemed ok but given his set up, again, too mumsy for me

he's a good guy trying to do the right thing, which is what superman should be first and foremost, a good guy with a nuke in his biceps

it's just that scenario cuts his balls off theatrically for me (bit like clooney as batman, well not that bad, cos that was utter shite but somewhere on that tangent)

but it is well made and i can totally see that for some it hits the spot

[NightDancer]

thanks for that mate, appreciated

i gave it a go, a fair few eps of season 1, which i think is a fair shake for a show

not for me, family drama, mopey teen agnst etc, i can't stand that shit, some love it, i hate it

on the superman side he seemed ok but given his set up, again, too mumsy for me

he's a good guy trying to do the right thing, which is what superman should be first and foremost, a good guy with a nuke in his biceps

it's just that scenario cuts his balls off theatrically for me (bit like clooney as batman, well not that bad, cos that was utter shite but somewhere on that tangent)

but it is well made and i can totally see that for some it hits the spot

Can see why it would not appeal to many to be honest. It is a bit too 6pm on a Saturday evening type of show for many, but then again that is exactly how it is being pitched. I just wated a Superman fix so got into binge watching it  this year.


If you can or are so inclined, give some of season two a shake.


A lot of the storylines from season one are long put to bed by then, and with Bizarro on the scene there is more cape action.


Second half of season always gets into Supes having to physically defend his family from threats that can trade punches with him, so you get a bit that is similar to Man Of Steel where Supes scraps with Zod &Co when they threaten Martha ( insert Batman Martha gif).


For me the show, whilst not being amazing, does get a lot right about Superman/Clark Kent for me and I think it shows that getting a character right or close to right can elevate things.

I would not be against Tyler Hoechlin being in with a shot of being the next big screen Superman. He plays both roles well and with a better script/story could be excellent in it. Plus given he is only 35 he could hold down the role for the next decade.


He has a good look for a live action Superman.



And I quite like his look as Bizarro too.

[AndyMuller]

It just looks like a CW type show to me.

[Stockholm Syndrome]

I do think a Superman movie where Clark Kent is as much a character as Superman is the way to go. Superman is meant to be a good ole American boy from Kansas just trying to do the right thing. He is a hopeful character.

Clark shouldn't be the disguise for Superman, Superman should be the alter ego of Clark Kent to do hero things.

And in a story where by Superman doesn't have much interesting things going on as the hero (he can fly, can't get hurt, punches real hard - there's more to it than that but in essence he can hardly get beat because he can do everything) the thing that makes him interesting is how everyone reacts and lives with Superman.

Lex Luthor is interesting when he is a guy who rightfully doesn't trust Superman, who wants to progress humanity, but is also a hypocrite because nothing is stopping him doing good for humanity as one of the world's smartest and richest men, other than jealousy of being upstaged by Superman.

And Clark Kent is interested juggling living and being Superman, and never hating this job but still having to figure out how to live a double life and how to protect everyone he can.

You need the fights but I do really think a new Superman movie has to have emphasis the human element to Superman, and the idea he would be fighting for justice if he had powers or not because that's how he was raised and him being a hope for humanity doesn't come from being last son of Kypton but from being the son of Martha and Jonathan Kent who raised him right.

[Armand9]

I would not be against Tyler Hoechlin being in with a shot of being the next big screen Superman. He plays both roles well and with a better script/story could be excellent in it. Plus given he is only 35 he could hold down the role for the next decade.

well we know he has 0 chance cos gunn has already said he's going young and to be totally frank, if age wasn't a factor, no way in hell am i picking that dude ahead of cavill - who is perfect for the role, man of steel is my fav superman movie (and i like christopher reeve 1 and esp 2) and they had cavill in shite scripts after that

bit like gal gadot - perfect for wonder woman, good first movie, shite scripts ever after (it's the same all over the industry, star wars, marvel phase four, DC, fuck knows how many IPs done on tv, shite writing after shite writing, either the talented writers aren't being hired for whatever reason or there's next to none left for the genres i like - for every decent movie/show we have a slew of shite)

and in the least unexpected news, Black Adam II ain't happening apparently

[Skeeve]

The issue with focusing on Clark Kent in a SUperman movie is that a tv show can do that sort of thing better and due to his power level maybe the better approach might be something akin to the way Marvel has used the Hulk more sparingly for set-p[ieces in ensemble movies, albeit they have been forced into doing this due to licensing issues that would limit their profits from a solo movie.

This whole cull of the DCEU seems overly heavy handed, casting hasn't really been a big problem with the movies, merely the unnecessary rush to reach the team-up movies stage of a shared universe when they could have easily taken more time in building up characters that both the existing fans plus mainstream cinema goers would have then really wanted to see, nick the approach of mcu phase 1 where the solo movies came first and weren't simply there to lead up to the crossover, even if you are going for a totally different tone or style.

[John_P]

Binning off the seemingly universally liked Henry Cavill has likely already ended any good will a large number of the fan base had for what had already been announced as changing.

WB/DCs biggest issue is there's been that many live action versions of Superman and Batman everyone already has a favourite depiction so it takes something to get fans to accept the new portrayal.

[Schmidt]

If they really are going scorched earth I can only think it's because they want to press reset on the world they've built (or haven't built), and they think audiences will be confused if they retain the actors but change everything else.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

I trust them,they've earnt it

[Sheer Magnetism]

For me, Superman works better in a movie context because you have a special effects budget to give him genuine threats. I actually don't think he's hard to write at all. There are a shedload of great comics and the Animated Series was dynamite.

The trouble is that too many writers are hacks who don't know how to write anything that isn't 'edgy', and who don't understand the majority of the struggle isn't necessarily for Superman to overpower the villians but for him to try and remain morally good while protecting his loved ones and keeping his secret identity under wraps.

[Barefoot Doctor]

DC just announced the first projects from the new James Gunn ‘vision’. Mix of movies, TV series and animations.

There’s a Superman movie in there as expected but no real details. Also announced ‘The Brave and the Bold’, which will debut the new DC Batman and focus on his relationship with Damien Wayne. Sounds like a fresh take on Batman and not the usual dark approach which I’m into.

A Green Lantern TV series also piqued my interest as it was described as their version of True Detective.

The Batman 2 also announced for October 2035. That and some other DC projects (ie Joker 2) will sit outside the Gunn stuff and be labelled ‘Elseworlds’.

[Schmidt]

DC just announced the first projects from the new James Gunn ‘vision’. Mix of movies, TV series and animations.

There’s a Superman movie in there as expected but no real details. Also announced ‘The Brave and the Bold’, which will debut the new DC Batman and focus on his relationship with Damien Wayne. Sounds like a fresh take on Batman and not the usual dark approach which I’m into.

A Green Lantern TV series also piqued my interest as it was described as their version of True Detective.

The Batman 2 also announced for October 2035. That and some other DC projects (ie Joker 2) will sit outside the Gunn stuff and be labelled ‘Elseworlds’.

I hope that was a typo.

[duvva 💅]

Has anyone watched Pennyworth? Onto season 3 now. Like the chap who plays Alfred, Paloma Faith steals every scene she’s in. Bit tongue in cheek but good fun too and it seems to be heading in a parallel universe direction.

[lionel_messias]

DC just announced the first projects from the new James Gunn ‘vision’. Mix of movies, TV series and animations.

There’s a Superman movie in there as expected but no real details. Also announced ‘The Brave and the Bold’, which will debut the new DC Batman and focus on his relationship with Damien Wayne. Sounds like a fresh take on Batman and not the usual dark approach which I’m into.

A Green Lantern TV series also piqued my interest as it was described as their version of True Detective.

The Batman 2 also announced for October 2035. That and some other DC projects (ie Joker 2) will sit outside the Gunn stuff and be labelled ‘Elseworlds’.

Sounds like a load of crap and Gunn is going to get himself fired after the first couple of flops.

At least Joker 2 should be something different.

[AndyMuller]

DC just announced the first projects from the new James Gunn ‘vision’. Mix of movies, TV series and animations.

There’s a Superman movie in there as expected but no real details. Also announced ‘The Brave and the Bold’, which will debut the new DC Batman and focus on his relationship with Damien Wayne. Sounds like a fresh take on Batman and not the usual dark approach which I’m into.

A Green Lantern TV series also piqued my interest as it was described as their version of True Detective.

The Batman 2 also announced for October 2035. That and some other DC projects (ie Joker 2) will sit outside the Gunn stuff and be labelled ‘Elseworlds’.

Just give me Joker 2, Batman 2 and Peacemaker season 2 and keep the rest.

[Armand9]

DC just announced the first projects from the new James Gunn ‘vision’. Mix of movies, TV series and animations.

There’s a Superman movie in there as expected but no real details. Also announced ‘The Brave and the Bold’, which will debut the new DC Batman and focus on his relationship with Damien Wayne. Sounds like a fresh take on Batman and not the usual dark approach which I’m into.

A Green Lantern TV series also piqued my interest as it was described as their version of True Detective.

The Batman 2 also announced for October 2035 2025. That and some other DC projects (ie Joker 2) will sit outside the Gunn stuff and be labelled ‘Elseworlds’.

going through the whole thing it's still messy, but in fairness that's what he inherited with movies still waiting to air. The slate was underwhelming as a whole but some of that is my own lack of familiarity with some of the characters and ones i do know that im not particularly fond of (eg Green Lantern).

The two big hitters in Superman and Batman was a mixed bag as well. Superman Legacy hasn't had any bones put on it really but the name hints at the little we already know, with the movie being Clark Kent's start at The Planet (so the beginning of Superman's legacy building, ie this is where his fame starts). It does mention about focusing on Superman balancing his Kryptonian heritage with his human upbringing. It sounds ok but im not sure how that square's up with the Batman announcement.

The Brave and the Bold, a Batman and Robin movie with Damien fucking Wayne? What?  So we have a young Superman but we're diving into Batman a fair way down the road? We are skipping soooooooooo much good Batman shit i really don't understand this at all. We skip to Damien Wayne, right past Dick Grayson and Tim Drake and everything before. I don't see that as a smart move in that you've already squashed Batman's timeline significantly.

The best thing to come out of it all wasn't actually about the specifics (if we can call them that) but Gunn's take on making movies:-

“People have become beholden to [release] dates, to getting movies made no matter what. I’m a writer at my heart, and we’re not going to be making movies before the screenplay is finished. I’ve seen it happen again and again — it’s a mess” he said. “It’s the primary reason for the deterioration in quality of films today, versus 20-30 years ago.”

“The degradation of the writer in Hollywood has been a terrible story,” Gunn said. “It’s gotten much worse since I first moved here 23 years ago. Writers have been completely left out of the loop in favor of actors and directors, and making the writer more prominent and more important in this process is really important to us.”

Gunn added that he believes superhero fatigue is a real thing largely because of the lack of care given to the writing process.

“They make these movies where they don’t have third acts written,” he said. “And then they start writing them during [production], you know, making them up as they’re going along. And then you’re watching a bunch of people punch each other, and there’s no flow even to the action.”

Added Safran, “It’s bad movie fatigue.”

Reading that was like finding an oasis in a desert. I'm sick to fucking death of shite writing with quality writing taking a backseat and studios apparently being happy with subpar garbage. Gunn said "Storytelling is always King." If he lives by and delivers on that mantra, i'll take whatever comes. (I should add here he cited Tom King as one of writers already on board...... i left buying comics a long time back but i have many comic friends and that dude's name is dirt to them. I don't know the specifics but anytime someone brought up that name it was follwed by groans lol).

Here's an overview take by Gunn
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/Nd6gBZI5808" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/Nd6gBZI5808</a>

[Barefoot Doctor]

The Brave and the Bold, a Batman and Robin movie with Damien fucking Wayne? What?  So we have a young Superman but we're diving into Batman a fair way down the road? We are skipping soooooooooo much good Batman shit i really don't understand this at all. We skip to Damien Wayne, right past Dick Grayson and Tim Drake and everything before. I don't see that as a smart move in that you've already squashed Batman's timeline significantly.

Honestly I'm just glad they're doing something fresh with Batman. Said before that I'd love to see a Batman film series where Gotham is fully fleshed out, with most of the villains already in existence and the Batfamily fully formed. It sounds like that's what they're doing, and Grant Morrison's Batman run as the inspiration seems ideal to me.

We've already got the super dark and gritty Batman with the Reeves trilogy, so I'm pleased they're going in a different direction with the Gunn stuff. I hope they can go slightly more fantastical, while still treating the characters seriously. Nothing wrong with having someone like Man-Bat in one of these films, or a version of Ra's al Ghul that can actually be resurrected.

And my guess is they'll want to do a fair bit of TV stuff around it, so it makes sense having all the Robins in place as they're obvious fodder for spinoffs - i.e. a Nightwing TV show, or a Teen Titans thing with Tim Drake.

Also don't think they'll be going for a Affleck-style grizzled Batman. Think he'll be in his mid-30s, maybe with the idea that he's been Batman for a decade or so (compared with Batfleck who was 20 years into his crime-fighting career). Agree it's hard to square with a young Superman though.

[Nobby Reserve]

Honestly I'm just glad they're doing something fresh with Batman.

Because what the Batman story really needs is some more rehashes.


I liked the first two Burton/Keaton representations (Returns particularly), and the Nolan/Bale trilogy.

Anything else, and I just switch off. They've rebooted too many times.

I feel the same with Spiderman (especially the Garfield reboot just a few years after the Maguire ones) - but at least I could understand why they rehashed with Holland for MCU purposes.

[Barefoot Doctor]

Because what the Batman story really needs is some more rehashes.


I liked the first two Burton/Keaton representations (Returns particularly), and the Nolan/Bale trilogy.

Anything else, and I just switch off. They've rebooted too many times.

I feel the same with Spiderman (especially the Garfield reboot just a few years after the Maguire ones) - but at least I could understand why they rehashed with Holland for MCU purposes.

I mean they're always going to keep rebooting these properties. I'm just pleased they're doing so and taking it in a bit of a different direction. Almost all the Batman films are focused on him as a solo crimefighter, when in the comics he usually has a bigger support system.

[Armand9]

i hear what you're saying but why start where he has? oh yeah, it's his favourite Robin... which now pushes batman to what? mid thirties in age? He did talk about the wider Batman family, so skipping straight to Damien Wayne allows for previous Robins now being in their subsequent non Robin roles. Which some would like, as would i, but why are we 'rushing' to that point from the off?

I really want Gunn to succeed and steer the ship on an awesome era of DC movies etc. But i dont think he can get out of his own way. Look how many of those starting projects are gunn's 'passion projects', things you would see as typical Gunn - obscure quirky groups, in other words he can write them as he wants with little push back cos they're hardly known. I think most (?) people are bored with the unfunny Marvel 'humour' that saturates their universe and now we're going to get a Gunn 'humour' saturated DC universe? i hope the fuck not.

Anyway, my point being is this the Gunn universe or the DC universe? He specifically said it's not the Gunn universe but this early peek at his sketched out projects to date sure as hell look like a boat load of his passion projects. Even tho i didn't like his Suicide Squad movies (tho liked his Guardians) i trust him somewhat with obscure quirky groups but writing and directing Superman? Fuck me if we get his usual humour laden laid back quirky take on things, i can't see it being something special, which we all hope for.

I feel he needs to forget the fuck about Marvel (who at the moment are drowning in their own shite anyway, following a pathetic phase) and just build up the DC universe more akin (ironically) to how Marvel started out, single hero movies building up an overall arc, make sure they hit good and hard and you'll have the fans and public on a wave with you. Adding in all these obscure projects so early (later is fine, once the universe is established) seems incredibly risky with most people going 'who'? Stories built on strong recognisable characters hit home better with joe public, rather than many obscure groups/individuals, seems a very strange choice so early on to me.

just for reference (the tv timeline and movie timeline are not synced, eg waller comes out before Superman)

[tubby]

All in on that Flash movie.  Flashpoint is one of my favourite comic stories and even though they've changed a fair bit about it I'm still hype.

[Barefoot Doctor]

Goosebumps when the Elfman score kicked in.

[ScouserAtHeart]

All in on that Flash movie.  Flashpoint is one of my favourite comic stories and even though they've changed a fair bit about it I'm still hype.

The trailer made it seem almost like a Keaton Batman movie, which is great

[Armand9]

im not sure anyone really cares, but fuck me, i heard people were walking out on a test screening of Aquaman 2!!?? wft, i dont know if i've ever heard that before. i can't for the life of me think why viewers would walk out of a test fucking screening. it's long been mooted that it's dogshit in reshoot hell but this? bizarre

would seem that's more than just being a bad movie. now i want to see it 

[[new username under construction]]

Is Amber Heard in it?

[BER]

You're allowed to walk out of test screenings?

[Brian Blessed]

You're allowed to walk out of test screenings?

Well, they can’t hold you at gun point.

I would t leave  myself, I’d want to let them know just how shit it is.

[Armand9]

from those who get invited to these things and have an inside into all that shite say it just doesn't happen normally and they can't recall it ever being a thing, do i know that personally, fuck no

the amber heard aspect was raised but apparently she isn't seen as a factor in general, in that the movie is considered garbage but not because of her, it just is (eg Flash has tested really well and there's Ezra Miller shite all around that one)

anyway at some point i suspect more light will be shed if it's anything more than just a bad movie thing but it's odd, not like tons of bad movies dont get screen tested, all the high profile ones will have been

[El Lobo]

Well, they can’t hold you at gun point.

I would t leave  myself, I’d want to let them know just how shit it is.

Surely that’s the point of walking out

You’re not walking out halfway through cos it’s so good you don’t even need to see the rest

[Brian Blessed]

Surely that’s the point of walking out

You’re not walking out halfway through cos it’s so good you don’t even need to see the rest

Fair but I would want to give details!

[John_P]

How long ago did they film it? Wasn't it originally supposed to be out December 2022, then summer 2023, and now December 2023. You'd think with all these delays seemingly only because WBDC couldn't afford to promote them in 2022 they'd have at least got the thing finished.

[BER]

I'd imagine if you just walked out of a screen testing you'd never be asked back? I'm sure Aquaman 2 will be shit, be so shit people it's setting a new precedent of people walking out of test screenings?

[Brian Blessed]

I'd imagine if you just walked out of a screen testing you'd never be asked back? I'm sure Aquaman 2 will be shit, be so shit people it's setting a new precedent of people walking out of test screenings?

I went to a test screening for Get Shorty when I was at uni. It was just people pulled off the street anonymously, rather than a repeat gig.

Of course different times and things may be different these days.