Topic: Wheres Rafa''s new contract?

[shelovesyou]

Both are looking to Sell .. NO NEWS in it.

Is correct , although I feel that Gillett is more vulnerable than Hicks financially but they have been looking to sell for well over a year now and nothing, no progress , Im not so sure they will ever get a buyer to be honest .

[rocco]

Is correct , although I feel that Gillett is more vulnerable than Hicks financially but they have been looking to sell for well over a year now and nothing, no progress , Im not so sure they will ever get a buyer to be honest .

Thought Hicks always seen a profit in us at some stage { after stadium built }

[shelovesyou]

Thought Hicks always seen a profit in us at some stage { after stadium built }

Oh yeh he wont go until he's made a buck or two no worries about that but that stadium is his only real chance of getting that , we all want a new stadium but he wants it as a cash cow for his " other teams " aswell as LFC , thats why I just dont see him selling anytime before that happens . . . if infact it does happen , which I think it will personally but when is anyones guess mate . . .

[Something Else]

The club needs one person in charge of an initiative to put us back on top, and when I say 'in charge', I mean root to fruit. Fair enough, get someone like Kenny in to ensure long-term continuity should Rafa/whoever has the talent to take on that kind of role get hit by a bus... but the point stands.

People are ignoring Man United's position, and we need multiple years of hard graft and crafty cultivation of the right seeds to get where we need to be. As things stand we're hamstringing our own long-term competitiveness.

your not wrong mate, and I agree he has the right ideas for out future, and I back him more than any other at our club, however he has to be held accountable for what he has done.

Sadly we dont have the ability to look back and see what would have happened had rafa not so publically shown the issues within the board room and continued ever since to play it out in the media when he so wished.

We will never truely know a number of things, what the owners really wanted when they spoke with Klinsman, whether Parry was causing the issues all along between the owners and rafa, the Robbie Keane scenario, but it is safe to say that what has been done is yet to see benefit, although it may now be starting to if we end up with Rafa having full running of the football aspects of the club. However the destabilisation to get there has been immense, and we will never know if it could have been achieved with out it.

One thing is for certain, looking back over it all no one can say Rafa is innocent in some of the shit that has been caused. I am also of a firm belief that if we had had a stronger board, rafa would have been sacked by now for it....

[shelovesyou]

your not wrong mate, and I agree he has the right ideas for out future, and I back him more than any other at our club, however he has to be held accountable for what he has done.

Sadly we dont have the ability to look back and see what would have happened had rafa not so publically shown the issues within the board room and continued ever since to play it out in the media when he so wished.

We will never truely know a number of things, what the owners really wanted when they spoke with Klinsman, whether Parry was causing the issues all along between the owners and rafa, the Robbie Keane scenario, but it is safe to say that what has been done is yet to see benefit, although it may now be starting to if we end up with Rafa having full running of the football aspects of the club. However the destabilisation to get there has been immense, and we will never know if it could have been achieved with out it.

One thing is for certain, looking back over it all no one can say Rafa is innocent in some of the shit that has been caused. I am also of a firm belief that if we had had a stronger board, rafa would have been sacked by now for it....

That part is very telling and very scary.

[shelovesyou]

Just a theory but Parry's sacking could be down to the fact he leaked informtion regarding potential investors !!!
I mean the info came from somewhere and ended up on forums like this and TLW and RAOTL many times .

[royhendo]

...he has to be held accountable for what he has done.

Which is what? Fight for our long-term competitiveness against a backdrop of sheisters and reptiles?

Sadly we dont have the ability to look back and see what would have happened had rafa not so publically shown the issues within the board room and continued ever since to play it out in the media when he so wished.

I'd hazard a guess that Rafa would have resigned full stop, because he was told to shut up and coach and train the team. It was in direct contravention to the role he was hired to play at the club. So he'd have left, and another big European club would have picked him up. Let's not kid ourselves - he needs us less than we need him. But he sees the potential here and he's committed to making a vision happen, much like Ferguson did up the road, and much like certain other managers that may or may not spring to peoples' minds.

We will never truely know a number of things, what the owners really wanted when they spoke with Klinsman, whether Parry was causing the issues all along between the owners and rafa, the Robbie Keane scenario, but it is safe to say that what has been done is yet to see benefit, although it may now be starting to if we end up with Rafa having full running of the football aspects of the club. However the destabilisation to get there has been immense, and we will never know if it could have been achieved with out it.

I think personally that people confuse the symptom with the cause. Rafa may report the instability, but he's not the root cause of it. Do you not think it's been in our interest to have a bulwark against our transition into some kind of "Weetabix United"?

One thing is for certain, looking back over it all no one can say Rafa is innocent in some of the shit that has been caused. I am also of a firm belief that if we had had a stronger board, rafa would have been sacked by now for it....

You make it sound like he was troublemaking for the sake of it. When you argue with someone, do you do it for the sport and the devilment? Or do you restrict yourself to fighting for the things you feel are worth fighting for?

Rafa's played a clever political balancing act that's not been to everyone's taste, but had he sat passively and 'coached and trained his team', or not spoken up when it looked like Torres was about to slip through his fingers, what then?

We have a right to know that the club has been run like a joke, to be honest. That's the only way we'll get where we need to be.

We need to get away from notions of 'innocence' and 'guilt' in all this. It's a political game, and if you're operating against people who are prepared to fight dirty, then you can either sit back and wait for them to sucker punch you, or you can fight them on your own terms in pursuit of what you believe in. I respect that. If you think we're better off with some patsy then that's your choice.

I have reservations at times with our football decisions on the park, but I don't have any problem with him fighting his corner for what's right when it comes to his project - his professional passion. Christ knows what people nowadays would have made of Shankly.

[Something Else]

Which is what? Fight for our long-term competitiveness against a backdrop of sheisters and reptiles?

I'd hazard a guess that Rafa would have resigned full stop, because he was told to shut up and coach and train the team. It was in direct contravention to the role he was hired to play at the club. So he'd have left, and another big European club would have picked him up. Let's not kid ourselves - he needs us less than we need him. But he sees the potential here and he's committed to making a vision happen, much like Ferguson did up the road, and much like certain other managers that may or may not spring to peoples' minds.

I think personally that people confuse the symptom with the cause. Rafa may report the instability, but he's not the root cause of it. Do you not think it's been in our interest to have a bulwark against our transition into some kind of "Weetabix United"?

You make it sound like he was troublemaking for the sake of it. When you argue with someone, do you do it for the sport and the devilment? Or do you restrict yourself to fighting for the things you feel are worth fighting for?

Rafa's played a clever political balancing act that's not been to everyone's taste, but had he sat passively and 'coached and trained his team', or not spoken up when it looked like Torres was about to slip through his fingers, what then?

We have a right to know that the club has been run like a joke, to be honest. That's the only way we'll get where we need to be.

We need to get away from notions of 'innocence' and 'guilt' in all this. It's a political game, and if you're operating against people who are prepared to fight dirty, then you can either sit back and wait for them to sucker punch you, or you can fight them on your own terms in pursuit of what you believe in. I respect that. If you think we're better off with some patsy then that's your choice.

I have reservations at times with our football decisions on the park, but I don't have any problem with him fighting his corner for what's right when it comes to his project - his professional passion. Christ knows what people nowadays would have made of Shankly.

Roy I agree with what you are saying and can in fairness see it from both points of view.

I agree that rafa wants to be here for the long term and sees our club as the perfect opportunity to build something, I think he much prefers that to going to a team already built and just tweaking.

I also believe that rafa can emulate fergusons success, however i think he will struggle with the current owners.

All i wonder is where we would be if he had not gone public on certain issues, did he close doors while doing so?

In the same sense would the owners still be so eager to sell?

[royhendo]

He'd have been emasculated, plain and simple. As it is, he used the only bargaining chip he had (the support of the fans) and worked it. Well, the other bargaining chip is continued European revenue... but it can't be taken for granted.

This is the real worry for me - he's got to keep the fans onside for the project to stay on track and for the whole balance to succeed - it's the fans' support that gives him the latitude with the owners. But he's been stubborn with the way he sets his sides out. That alienates people, and it erodes his support... and eventually the owners will sense blood. They want an easy life with steady income that pays for the debt - they couldn't give a fuck if we're successful beyond that. Ideal if it happens, but it's not their reason for taking over the club.

We should remember who the one person who wants to win trophies is. At this stage we should all go and read Harry Labrador's stuff and remind ourselves what Hicks can do to a sporting institution when he's allowed to operate unchecked.

[jonnygeeart]

dont that thought makes me wish i had a sniper rifle in the loft that needed dusting down

[guyko21]

Great posts royhendo ...

Hits the nail on the head several times. 

[cowtownred]

Said it at the time, believe even more strongly now, that the public airing by Rafa of the contract disputes was one of,

a first mistake in the political games Rafa has played extremely well since Athens

or

preparing an exit strategy for himself in the summer without being badmouthed by the supporters, who he clearly covets.

That remains my staunch opinion.

[Something Else]

Said it at the time, believe even more strongly now, that the public airing by Rafa of the contract disputes was one of,

a first mistake in the political games Rafa has played extremely well since Athens

or

preparing an exit strategy for himself in the summer without being badmouthed by the supporters, who he clearly covets.

That remains my staunch opinion.

I am with you on that, he has certainly given himself a good opportunity to walk

[Bobsackamano]

"The manager told me he wants to give me a new contract," Kuyt told The Times, "but because of his own contract he wanted to sort that out first and see what’s happening"

I didn't like the above quote from Kuyt. If Rafa thinks Kuyt has done enough for a new contract his own contact situation should be irrelevant, he's paid to be manager of Liverpool. Unless he's thinking of leaving and he see's Kuyt as a player he'll take with him for mimimal payment to Liverpool.

I've always been a Rafa supporter but this quote from Kuyt set a few alarm bells off. The quote implys it's Rafa who decides who the club offers new contracts to and when. Bearing in mind Agger will also be able to leave for bugger all in the close season this needs to be cleared up.

[Bogman]

"The manager told me he wants to give me a new contract," Kuyt told The Times, "but because of his own contract he wanted to sort that out first and see what’s happening"

I didn't like the above quote from Kuyt. If Rafa thinks Kuyt has done enough for a new contract his own contact situation should be irrelevant, he's paid to be manager of Liverpool. Unless he's thinking of leaving and he see's Kuyt as a player he'll take with him for mimimal payment to Liverpool.

I've always been a Rafa supporter but this quote from Kuyt set a few alarm bells off. The quote implys it's Rafa who decides who the club offers new contracts to and when. Bearing in mind Agger will also be able to leave for bugger all in the close season this needs to be cleared up.

Bad use of the engerlish language to make a sensational headline.

To me that says Rafa wants Dirk to sort out his contract, but Dirk can't see that happening until Rafa's is sorted out first.

Someone please don't burst my bubble.

[royhendo]

Said it at the time, believe even more strongly now, that the public airing by Rafa of the contract disputes was one of,

a first mistake in the political games Rafa has played extremely well since Athens

or

preparing an exit strategy for himself in the summer without being badmouthed by the supporters, who he clearly covets.

That remains my staunch opinion.

Could be right enough... not sure how it's a mistake though. It potentially 'rallies' his allies - but you have to say the fans are wavering just now and he needs to work hard to change that. It's beginning to feel like a fait accomplis isn't it?

[Dick Emery]

Said it at the time, believe even more strongly now, that the public airing by Rafa of the contract disputes was one of,

a first mistake in the political games Rafa has played extremely well since Athens

or

preparing an exit strategy for himself in the summer without being badmouthed by the supporters, who he clearly covets.

That remains my staunch opinion.

I have thought since last summer that he planned to quit this summer. I can't see why he'd actively pursue both Keane and Barry if he had long term plans. He was willing to spend significant sums on both players in a final attempt to land the league. He didn't care that their re-sale value would be low in a couple of years as he didn't see himself being around to have to deal with this.

I think he knows the americans aren't going anywhere and he's had enough of it. He planned to give it one last throw of the dice to cement his place in our history forever.

Sadly, it's not worked out..... He has to quit for his own personal career. If he stays he knows that his reputation will only decline rather than improve because of the meddling of the Deadly Duo and the calamitous state of the club. My money is that he never signs a new contract and he goes in the summer.

[Redrider]

Sadly, reading between the lines it looks like more upheaval and bye bye Rafa, hello Jose !!
WTF !!

[Something Else]

Sadly, reading between the lines it looks like more upheaval and bye bye Rafa, hello Jose !!
WTF !!

what makes you think Jose will come here with the current ownership?

especially as no doubt if availiable he will be offered City (can understand him choosing us over them) and Chelsea, and maybe Arsenal

[Redrider]

Simple, he has been sounded out and has said he is interested!

[Dick Emery]

Sadly, reading between the lines it looks like more upheaval and bye bye Rafa, hello Jose !!
WTF !!

I've seen a lot of people saying Mourinho. Why do they think he'd come? He knows English football and he knows he'd have a problem in competing. Mourinho is a huge ego. He wouldn't set himself up for something where he thought he couldn't win.

All these people who are wishing Rafa gone should be careful what they wish for. We might end up with a very sub-standard replacement.

[Something Else]

Simple, he has been sounded out and has said he is interested!

sorry i was not aware of this

is this factual, or speculative, I imagine the later and highly otherwise Rafa would be off by now.

[smicer07]

Mourinho can fuck right off.

[shelovesyou]

I like Mourinho , and he'd do a job for us BUT he wouldnt stay for the long haul that much you can guarantee.

[Redrider]

sorry i was not aware of this

is this factual, or speculative, I imagine the later and highly otherwise Rafa would be off by now.

According to several newspapers ! Who you must always take with a pinch of salt, but apparently Hicks agreed and said it was only a standbye when negotiations with Rafa were looking tough!

Example:

Liverpool 'made approach' for Mourinho
Friday, February 27, 2009
Inter boss Jose Mourinho
Liverpool's owners sounded out Inter boss Jose Mourinho for the top job at Anfield, it has been reported today.
The American co-owners Tom Hicks and George Gillett were reportedly fearful manager Rafael Benitez would quit the club after talks had stalled on a new contract.

http://www.metro.co.uk/sport/football/article.html?Liverpool_made_approach_for_Mourinho&in_article_id=561231&in_page_id=43

[HarryLabrador]

sorry i was not aware of this

is this factual, or speculative, I imagine the later and highly otherwise Rafa would be off by now.

Exactly. It was reported just before the Madrid game when all the stupid rumours that Rafa was leaving. Some journalists said Mourinho was interested. Stuff and nonsense, and as you said, why would Jose take on the Yanks knowing how broke they are?

[Something Else]

Exactly. It was reported just before the Madrid game when all the stupid rumours that Rafa was leaving. Some journalists said Mourinho was interested. Stuff and nonsense, and as you said, why would Jose take on the Yanks knowing how broke they are?

ah, right ok, before the Madrid game, must be true then

According to several newspapers ! Who you must always take with a pinch of salt,

just a pinch, was this before or after the Americans indicated his job was safe?

[nobluff]

Rafa's job is secure, very secure, for one simple reason.

The club is up for sale and when financiers look at the club, they value Champions League qualification and progress above all else.

And for a club with our infrastructure, and our revenues, our Champions League runs are way above what should be expected.  And most analysts agree that the reason for that is Rafa.

So if G&H want to sell the club, then they need Rafa at the helm as his continued managership of the club is worth millions.  If we lose him and the value of the club plummets.

No financial analyst would expect us to win the League - given Utd's match day revenues thats wishful thinking. so Rafa's "failure" to crack the league is not a concern; it is not thought that any other manager could finish above Chelsea and united given their resources.  Rafa's ability to make Liverpool punch above their weight in European terms is what makes him so valuable.

Mods, surely this poster deserves an official warning for making to much sense and spending time actually thinking before writing?

[nobluff]

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/sam-wallace-liverpool-needs-Benítez-to-end-power-struggle-and-avoid-the-folly-of-clough-1635179.html

"At a football club, the man at the top is the chairman, then come the directors, then the fans, then the players and right at the bottom, the lowest of the low, is the manager." - Sam Longson, Derby County chairman, to Brian Clough in the film The Damned United.

Yeah, Derby County rocks, LFC sucks, we should obey thier lead!  WhoTF is Brain Clough anyway, that Nigel guys kid?  Sam Longson, the genius, we will never foget you .... again, you are a legend in the mould of that wallace dickhead.

[ali]

"The manager told me he wants to give me a new contract," Kuyt told The Times, "but because of his own contract he wanted to sort that out first and see what’s happening"

I didn't like the above quote from Kuyt. If Rafa thinks Kuyt has done enough for a new contract his own contact situation should be irrelevant, he's paid to be manager of Liverpool. Unless he's thinking of leaving and he see's Kuyt as a player he'll take with him for mimimal payment to Liverpool.

I've always been a Rafa supporter but this quote from Kuyt set a few alarm bells off. The quote implys it's Rafa who decides who the club offers new contracts to and when. Bearing in mind Agger will also be able to leave for bugger all in the close season this needs to be cleared up.

If you read Carra's book, yes Rafa offers staff/players new contracts/extensions. It would be complete irresponsibility on Rafa's part to offer any player or member of staff, a contract/extension, until he is assured the stability and security of the club past July.

Listening to LFC Now at 6pm, he expects talks either in a few days or a few weeks, which sounds as if they may be dithering on whether they're coming over or not this week.

[SickBoy.no]

I have thought since last summer that he planned to quit this summer. I can't see why he'd actively pursue both Keane and Barry if he had long term plans. He was willing to spend significant sums on both players in a final attempt to land the league. He didn't care that their re-sale value would be low in a couple of years as he didn't see himself being around to have to deal with this.

I think he knows the americans aren't going anywhere and he's had enough of it. He planned to give it one last throw of the dice to cement his place in our history forever.

Sadly, it's not worked out..... He has to quit for his own personal career. If he stays he knows that his reputation will only decline rather than improve because of the meddling of the Deadly Duo and the calamitous state of the club. My money is that he never signs a new contract and he goes in the summer.

So what you're saying is that since he was about to buy/bought two players/one player at 27/28 he was not thinking of staying at the club for the long run? What a load..

I can see Rafa might be engineering his way out clean atm, but I'm 100% sure that was not his plan this summer. I was actually excited about Barry after Xabis form the last seasons, but today I'm very happy it didn't happen. However; Keane and Barry both have/had 4-5 years left in them, so to say that he didn't think of the future is stupid. If they had done what he hoped/believed the reward would far exceed the decrease in value in front of a possible sale

[shanklyboy]

According to several newspapers ! Who you must always take with a pinch of salt, but apparently Hicks agreed and said it was only a standbye when negotiations with Rafa were looking tough!

Example:

Liverpool 'made approach' for Mourinho
Friday, February 27, 2009
Inter boss Jose Mourinho
Liverpool's owners sounded out Inter boss Jose Mourinho for the top job at Anfield, it has been reported today.
The American co-owners Tom Hicks and George Gillett were reportedly fearful manager Rafael Benítez would quit the club after talks had stalled on a new contract.

http://www.metro.co.uk/sport/football/article.html?Liverpool_made_approach_for_Mourinho&in_article_id=561231&in_page_id=43

From The Metro eh?
Top journalistic stuff there.

By the way....you missed this part out from the article.

Liverpool's owners sounded out Inter boss Jose Mourinho for the top job at Anfield, it has been reported today.

One insider told today's S**: 'The Americans had read Mourinho was interested in returning to the Premier League and wanted to know if he meant it.

[redprodigal]

From The Metro eh?
Top journalistic stuff there.

By the way....you missed this part out from the article.

Liverpool's owners sounded out Inter boss Jose Mourinho for the top job at Anfield, it has been reported today.

One insider told today's S**: 'The Americans had read Mourinho was interested in returning to the Premier League and wanted to know if he meant it.

Yep, a load of shite, the only way Mourinho would ever come to us is if we got taken over by one of the arabs or suchlike. He could never work with our skint owners. Imagine him trying to outdo baconface on our budget. Christ, I can just see the aftermatch interviews now.

[shanklyboy]

Yep, a load of shite, the only way Mourinho would ever come to us is if we got taken over by one of the arabs or suchlike. He could never work with our skint owners. Imagine him trying to outdo baconface on our budget. Christ, I can just see the aftermatch interviews now.

The other reason is that we already have a manager.

[shelovesyou]

Yeah, Derby County rocks, LFC sucks, we should obey thier lead!  WhoTF is Brain Clough anyway, that Nigel guys kid?  Sam Longson, the genius, we will never foget you .... again, you are a legend in the mould of that wallace dickhead.

Im speechless 

[redprodigal]

The other reason is that we already have a manager.

Of course   

[cowtownred]

The other reason is that we already have a manager.

And what, in your opinion, is the real reason Benitez is playing hardball over his contract situation presently?

Its a serious question.

Does he want out, for whatever reason, and keeps issuing new demands to force the owners into a decision (cos like it or not, as I certainly dont, we are having the owners for the forseeable)?
Or is there really some serious sticking point regarding control of the Academy?  Cant see that myself.
Or is he really being denied control of his transfer dealings.. money aside..  cant see that either if Im honest.
Or is it that he wants to be certain of the ownership going forward?

Well this last one is interesting.

How can he expect to know about the ownership, when the owners don't know either? There is no imminent buyout, and how would Benitez expect the current owners to say what can happen?

So why is this of importance to him?  Because none of the other potential sticking points in the contract negotiations appear to be a real issue.  The tenure/money are sorted. He has been granted Academy control. There might be some fineprint about his control of any transfer budget, but in principle Hicks has rubberstamped this, and with Parry gone... theres no real impediment.

So, I ask again, what is Rafa's problem?

It has to be his future if the ownership changes sometime, or, he doesn't want to sign.  Now, it may be that previously interested buyers of the Club are not supportive of Benitez, but these buyers are gone, and no other sugar daddy is imminent.  If a takeover was forthcoming, and if these were not wanting to retain him, I could see the reason for Rafa wanting his future clarified before signing up...  but he knows as well as everyone else, that in the current climate...   there is no takeover. Hicks will be his master for the future few years.

So, I say again, I have a feeling that Rafa is engineering his exit this summer without appearing to let the fans down or to desert the sinking ship.  Thats my take on this saga. It certainly hasn't done the Club or the team any favours in recent weeks, and that cannot be argued.  I think the politician in him has over-ruled the football coach on this occasion, and once again we will be the losers.

[The Bill Hicks Appreciation Society]

Or is it that he wants to be certain of the ownership going forward?

Well this last one is interesting.

I know it's not the greatest source in the world but this is what Ballague implied, and you can understand why? This is the same man who had a 15 day release clause in his contract. I'm not sure whether that's normal in Spain but as we know it's not normal over here. I think if new owners came in then I think he'd like to be able to decide whether he wanted to stay or not without a breach of contract.

[electricghost]

There is no imminent buyout.

 but these buyers are gone, and no other sugar daddy is imminent.
 
 but he knows as well as everyone else, that in the current climate...   there is no takeover. Hicks will be his master for the future few years.

Do you know this for sure or are you guessing like the rest of us?

[The Bill Hicks Appreciation Society]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/l/liverpool/7919729.stm

love him to bits but how you get the headline 'torres injuries cost us' from this press conference I'm quite frankly staggered.