Topic: Loan Watch 2017-18

[Djimi Smicer34]

So who's the best youth talent at the club? Woodburn, Jones, Brewster? I haven't seen too much of the youth teams play this year compared to years past, but Brewster looks like he could be the one. The thing is, with the current position the club is in, I think a young player pretty much needs to be of an Mbappe type quality to really get in. It's not like Liverpool haven't seen it before. Owen was clearly at that level when he came through, Fowler the same. Gerrard maybe not quite the youth phenomemon, but not far off.

Woodburn looks like one of those types who might be a slowburn in terms of development, because his talent is perhaps more in his football intelligence. Yes he's good technically, and he can move, but he's not really elite in either of those areas. We have players like Salah and Mane who have elite physical and technical skills while also being incredibly intelligent. Maybe Firmino is the better comparison, but he doesn't play for this team as a teenager I don't think, he's taken time to learn his craft. Where as I think a teenage Salah or Mane likely get more opportunities. The youth players that get into top sides and stay there typically jump off the screen physically and/or technically.

They really don't - this Mbappe thing is a bit ridiculous, you're talking about potentially the best talent of his generation, it is unrealistic to expect any club to produce that kind of quality on a consistent basis. 

Alexander-Arnold, Woodburn, Brewster and Jones are the young players at the club that are in, or perhaps very close to in Jones' case, the exceptional bracket.  Kamil Grabara is the best young goalkeeper I've seen at the club for a while so he's one worth keeping a close eye on.  Adam Lewis and Rafa Camacho have improved significantly over the last few months, granted they're probably a level down from the players already listed but Camacho has really impressed Klopp and Buvac in training at Melwood and I think Lewis could well come into first-team reckoning in the medium-to-long-term as a left-sided option.

[Dundalis]

They really don't - this Mbappe thing is a bit ridiculous, you're talking about potentially the best talent of his generation, it is unrealistic to expect any club to produce that kind of quality on a consistent basis. 

Alexander-Arnold, Woodburn, Brewster and Jones are the young players at the club that are in, or perhaps very close to in Jones' case, the exceptional bracket.  Kamil Grabara is the best young goalkeeper I've seen at the club for a while so he's one worth keeping a close eye on.  Adam Lewis and Rafa Camacho have improved significantly over the last few months, granted they're probably a level down from the players already listed but Camacho has really impressed Klopp and Buvac in training at Melwood and I think Lewis could well come into first-team reckoning in the medium-to-long-term as a left-sided option.

That's the thing though, top clubs don't need to produce that type of talent on a consistent basis because they have the funds to go out and either buy that player from another club (watch us potentially go and buy Sessegnon), or others a bit older who've developed into a top level player already. I fully expect us to be in that bracket this summer and going after the likes of Pulisic who's 19 and playing top flight football consistently, or those older established players like maybe Dybala or Isco. That's who these kids will be competing with, the players in the bracket of the best in the world. So unless they have that ability, they may play some games, but they just aren't likely to do a Steven Gerrard. Alexander Arnold for example, has improved significantly as the season has gone on, and everyone is in love with him right now (after crapping on him a mere few months ago) but I could easily see us buying in his position in a year or two if the right player comes along, not to mention right back is probably not even his preferred position.

[BabuYagu]

whom should/could they replace?

that said given our links with sessegnon, maddison  and neveshow do harry's numbers stack up against theirs?

aware it's a small sample etc but his goal scoring and assist level from a team at the bottom of the league seem very good.

I posted on that earlier in the thread comparing their numbers. Scroll back a page or two.

[Djimi Smicer34]

That's the thing though, top clubs don't need to produce that type of talent on a consistent basis because they have the funds to go out and either buy that player from another club (watch us potentially go and buy Sessegnon), or others a bit older who've developed into a top level player already. I fully expect us to be in that bracket this summer and going after the likes of Pulisic who's 19 and playing top flight football consistently, or those older established players like maybe Dybala or Isco. That's who these kids will be competing with, the players in the bracket of the best in the world. So unless they have that ability, they may play some games, but they just aren't likely to do a Steven Gerrard. Alexander Arnold for example, has improved significantly as the season has gone on, and everyone is in love with him right now (after crapping on him a mere few months ago) but I could easily see us buying in his position in a year or two if the right player comes along, not to mention right back is probably not even his preferred position.

I think you're going to end up very disappointed then.

If you really think that of Alexander-Arnold, none of our young players are likely to convince you of their ability.  I would wager that he will not be the only young player at the club who will prove you wrong though.

[Dundalis]

I think you're going to end up very disappointed then.

If you really think that of Alexander-Arnold, none of our young players are likely to convince you of their ability.  I would wager that he will not be the only young player at the club who will prove you wrong though.

You think the team can't attract those types of players?

If he proves me wrong, then great. You know there's been a number of youth players get a number of games at the club in the last decade or so only to be moved on. Some that supporters have absolutely waxed lyrical about as being the future of the club. I like AA, but like I didn't necessarily buy into it when supporters were calling for his head not that long ago, I'm not having it that he's a world beater after a few good performances. Very talented player, and one that fits into the mould I mentioned in my previous post, as the type of young player that will get a shot at a top club, because he has fantastic physical attributes. Hopefully he keeps trending in the right direction. I don't think he's a natural RB though, and down the line probably projects better in midfield (which would obviously be much harder for him to break into), where we could end up buying an equally talented player who's a more natural RB. But we'll see.

[Djimi Smicer34]

You think the team can't attract those types of players?

If he proves me wrong, then great. You know there's been a number of youth players get a number of games at the club in the last decade or so only to be moved on. Some that supporters have absolutely waxed lyrical about as being the future of the club. I like AA, but like I didn't necessarily buy into it when supporters were calling for his head not that long ago, I'm not having it that he's a world beater after a few good performances. Very talented player, and one that fits into the mould I mentioned in my previous post, as the type of young player that will get a shot at a top club, because he has fantastic physical attributes. Hopefully he keeps trending in the right direction. I don't think he's a natural RB though, and down the line probably projects better in midfield (which would obviously be much harder for him to break into), where we could end up buying an equally talented player who's a more natural RB. But we'll see.

I don't think it's a matter of whether or not we can attract those players; I think we can.  But I don't think we will sign those players.

I don't really care about young players who have come and gone in the past; in the here and now, Woodburn and Alexander-Arnold are both exceptionally gifted young players who should have long and successful careers at the highest level, hopefully with Liverpool.

Anyone who got on Alexander-Arnold's back a few weeks ago is an idiot; anyone who can't see what a talent he is now is simply not a very good judge of talent.

[BabuYagu]

You think the team can't attract those types of players?

If he proves me wrong, then great. You know there's been a number of youth players get a number of games at the club in the last decade or so only to be moved on. Some that supporters have absolutely waxed lyrical about as being the future of the club. I like AA, but like I didn't necessarily buy into it when supporters were calling for his head not that long ago, I'm not having it that he's a world beater after a few good performances. Very talented player, and one that fits into the mould I mentioned in my previous post, as the type of young player that will get a shot at a top club, because he has fantastic physical attributes. Hopefully he keeps trending in the right direction. I don't think he's a natural RB though, and down the line probably projects better in midfield (which would obviously be much harder for him to break into), where we could end up buying an equally talented player who's a more natural RB. But we'll see.

There are only two full backs in the Premier League who have more Dribbles + Shots on Target + Key Passes per 90 this season. They are Masuako and Zappacosta. Both of which play as wing backs in a 3-4-3 rather than as full backs.

[hassinator]

I posted on that earlier in the thread comparing their numbers. Scroll back a page or two.

thanks buddy will do.

[BabuYagu]

thanks buddy will do.

Was digging through my old posts and found it.

Posted in the tactics thread but wanted to separate out our loan players for a look at how they are getting along.

Code: [Select]

Player Name G+A/90 SoT+Drib+KP/90
Ejaria (Sunderland) 0 5,2
Wilson (Hull) 0,99 5,09
Ojo (Fulham) 0,39 4,95
Kent (Bristol City) 0,33 4,28
Kent (Freiburg)* 0 4,06
Origi (Wolfsburg) 0,37 3,48
Grujic (Cardiff) 0,09 3,04
To give some context, here are some of the bigger names of young talents in the Championship to compare them to.

Code: [Select]

Player Name G+A/90 SoT+Drib+KP/90
Adama Traoré 0,59 12,36
Sergi Canos 0,23 7,67
Ollie Watkins 0,37 7,62
Alex Pritchard 0,57 7,44
James Maddison 0,57 7,12
Jack Grealish 0,43 6,66
Diogo Jota 0,56 5,87
Ruben Neves 0,19 3,49
Ryan Sessegnon** 0,48 3,29

*Denotes a very small sample size of less than six games.
**Played large portion of the season at LB.

It is as at 18 April so doesn't include the most recent game(s) which likely has propelled him even further up that list and puts him way ahead in terms of output. Added Neves in but would say that is a poor metric to compare central midfielders. You probably want to look at advanced passing metrics to measure how effective he is as a controller linking the defence to the creative and attacking players. Jorginho comes out as 0,24 and 2,43. Busquets 0,17 and 1,45 for example - so it effectively tells you nothing other than that they don't have much of a direct impact in terms of goals or assists - similar to Alonso when he was here and often criticised for by the mentalists!

[JoeCole]

Taiwo Awoniyi - Royal Excel Mouscron - Very sad news for Awoniyi who has been ruled out for the season and the World Cup with a hamstring injury. All in all this has been an impressive loan spell for him, he was named in the Belgian league's U23 side of the season and the Nigerian media were really pushing for him to get into the WC squad. He joins Allan in returning from his loan early with injury. As for Mouscron they drew 1-1 at home late last week against Waasland and were beaten 3-1 away at Leuven at the weekend, knocking them down to 4th in the Europa League play off groups.

Sheyi Ojo - Fulham - Missed Fulham's 3-0 win at Millwall with a hamstring injury. They remain a point off Cardiff in 3rd.

Divock Origi - Wolfsburg - Origi's spell outside the starting 11 continued as Wolfsburg were thrashed 3-0 away at Gladbach, he came on for the final 15 minutes. Wolfsburg are still level on points with the relegation play off spots.

Allan - Apollon Limassol - [Allan has been called back to Liverpool and had the loan cut short because of injury, but I thought I'd continue to document Apollon's results anyway and see if they do manage to win the title after all.] Apollon won 4-0 in the first leg of their cup semi final against Pathos in midweek and followed that up with a 3-1 win at home to 3rd placed Anorthosis. They are 2 points clear in 1st place with 1 game remaining - home to APOEL, who are 2nd in the table. Apollon haven't won the league since 05-06, if they manage to do it they'll go into the Champions League Qualifiers for next season. So, despite returning to Anfield a few weeks back, Allan is still on for 2 trophies.

Corey Whelan - Yeovil - Whelan still can't get a game for Yeovil whose woeful form continued with a 4-1 loss away at Virtue-Thicke's Notts County. They are 6 points above relegation with 2 games remaining. Whelan hasn't played for them now since March 10th, appeared on the bench a couple of times but is mostly missing the match day squad.

Matthew Virtue - Notts County - As mentioned directly above Notts won 4-1. Virtue played the full 90 at right mid. They're 2 points off automatic promotion with 2 games remaining, and after this weekends win secured at minimum a play off spot.

Ryan Kent - Bristol City - Missed out on the match day squad for the 4th game in a row. Bristol drew 5-5 at home with Wilson's Hull side. It was a game that they really needed to win to ramp up further pressure on 6th place, but instead they've fallen 3 points behind with the 2 games left to go, and a worse goal difference.

Bristol's manager was asked about him this week: "Ryan hasn’t done it to how we would have hoped in our team for whatever reason,” he told Bristol Live. “He came into a club with big expectations and for whatever reason it hasn’t quite worked as we would have all hoped. The squad understands each other and has cohesion with each other, its not always easy to break into that scenario. Ryan, let me tell you, is a great player,” he said. “If you told me he was coming through our academy as a 20 year-old, I’d tell you he was going to be a £10m player in the next few years.”

Marko Grujic - Cardiff - Grujic remained on the bench as Cardiff picked up a 2-1 win at home to Forest to keep ahead of Fulham. They have a game in hand against Derby midweek, if they win it they'll be 4 points clear with 2 games to go.

Harry Wilson - Hull - Hull drew 5-5 away at Bristol City with Wilson continuing to impress by scoring a further 2 goals. Goals were posted on a previous page. He now has 7 goals and 4 assists in 11 Championship appearances for Hull. Hull are also now confirmed safe from relegation.

Ovie Ejaria - Sunderland - Ejaria remained on the bench as Sunderland's awful season was summed up in 90 minutes as they lead at home to 23rd placed Burton, only to concede twice in the final 5 minutes to throw the points away and relegate themselves. They also had a goal ruled out in the 94th minute just to add some further suffering. Sunderland are off to League 1, Ejaria will hopefully get a better move next season.

Jon Flanagan - Bolton - Still potentially following Sunderland to League 1 are Bolton, who were well beaten at home by Champions Wolves, 4-0. Flanagan played the full 90. Bolton are 2 points clear of relegation and have a massive game away at 23rd placed Burton on Saturday.

Pedro Chirivella - Willem II - Chirivella played 56 minutes as Willem were battered 5-1 at home by Feyenoord. They are 6 points clear of the relegation play off spots with 2 games remaining, although have a much superior goal difference so should be safe now regardless.

Naby Keita - RBL - He came on at half time and scored as RBL were also destroyed at home by Hoffenheim, 5-2. RBL now drop below Hoffenheim into 6th place, and have left themselves with a 4 point gap to make up in the final 3 games if they are to qualify for the Champions League.

Daniel Sturridge - West Brom - Couldn't play against his parent club.

Lazar Markovic - Anderlecht - Back in a more familiar position on the right wing, Markovic netted for Anderlecht in a 2-1 defeat at Genk, he came off in the 80th minute straight after getting booked. He had an interview after the game in which he doesn't sound very happy: “It’s to show that I’m still the same player, to show the people at Liverpool that they can’t treat me that way,” Markovic told Belgian newspaper DH, as translated by the lovely Sport Witness. Markovic added: “Yes, it’s okay to take it personally when you are not let go because they’re asking for an unrealistic transfer amount.” When asked whether he was letting the fact that he had just scored his first goal in almost a year get to him, the winger replied: “No, I’ve been thinking about it for months, that’s what I think.”


Main points:

Awoniyi picked up a hamstring injury and will return to Liverpool, missing his chance of playing at the World Cup.
Although also back at Liverpool, Allan still has a chance of a League and Cup double.
Wilson scored twice and now has 7 goals and 4 assists in 11 league games.
Quotes from B. City's manager about the Kent move not working out, doesn't sound encouraging for him to play again this season.
Ejaria was relegated.
Markovic scored and isn't pleased about how he's been treated by the club.

[hassinator]

I posted on that earlier in the thread comparing their numbers. Scroll back a page or two.

went back four pages; couldn't find it.  will hazard a guess that harry's numbers are up there with them both.

question is does he fit the profile of what klopp wants in the first team?

i think he merits a chance but i'd be surprised if he makes it given his competition at the moment in the wide roles are mane and salah.

we're also likely to buy a top drawer wide attacker and are bringing brewster into the first team squad or i imagine he won't sign a new deal.

there's also a strong possibility that we buy sessegnon - we're favourites according to the bookies - who can play FB or wide left.

not leaving the window of very many minute for wee harry so is he better going on another loan?

he gets more experience; we keep him in the shop window at a higher level.

all our youth players need to be EXCEPTIONAL to get into our first team now.

they really do need to be a bit of prodigy like raheem sterling or TAA as why else would they get time to develop?

[hassinator]

Was digging through my old posts and found it.

Posted in the tactics thread but wanted to separate out our loan players for a look at how they are getting along.

ha. should have scrolled up before i just posted.  exceptional numbers from wee harry.  definitely up for having a look at him in pre-season now

[El Lobo]

Disappointing loan spells for a few of the kids. Would have hoped Ojo, Kent and Ejaria in particular would have done a lot better. Doesn't mean a huge amount though, plenty have had bad ones and gone on to excellent careers with their parent clubs.

[newterp]

Ojo gets injured a lot.

[Dundalis]

I don't think it's a matter of whether or not we can attract those players; I think we can.  But I don't think we will sign those players.

I don't really care about young players who have come and gone in the past; in the here and now, Woodburn and Alexander-Arnold are both exceptionally gifted young players who should have long and successful careers at the highest level, hopefully with Liverpool.

Anyone who got on Alexander-Arnold's back a few weeks ago is an idiot; anyone who can't see what a talent he is now is simply not a very good judge of talent.

So you think we'll just promote these youth players instead of going after the most talented available players we could go after, when we've put ourselves on the map as a real draw for top players this season like we haven't done in a decade? Really?? That would be horrible management by the club. Also I didn't say we will specifically sign one of those named players. I said players like them, if not them, then a player on their level.

Also what you are saying makes no sense, since the only way to gauge how youth players are likely to get into a top side is to look at historical precedent. It's the only way to get context. Your comments are all black and white, such and such is an exceptional talent, that that's all you need to know, rather than recognising that there are grey areas here. Just being a top talent is not enough, and we've seen many examples of this in the past. There are plenty of other factors that play into it.

There are only two full backs in the Premier League who have more Dribbles + Shots on Target + Key Passes per 90 this season. They are Masuako and Zappacosta. Both of which play as wing backs in a 3-4-3 rather than as full backs.

I don't have much of an issue with his ability from an attacking perspective. I've already said I think his best position is likely in midfield.

[Djimi Smicer34]

So you think we'll just promote these youth players instead of going after the most talented available players we could go after, when we've put ourselves on the map as a real draw for top players this season like we haven't done in a decade? Really?? That would be horrible management by the club. Also I didn't say we will specifically sign one of those named players. I said players like them, if not them, then a player on their level.

No.

If I thought that, I would have said that.  I didn't and instead you've leapt to an inaccurate conclusion.

Also what you are saying makes no sense, since the only way to gauge how youth players are likely to get into a top side is to look at historical precedent. It's the only way to get context. Your comments are all black and white, such and such is an exceptional talent, that that's all you need to know, rather than recognising that there are grey areas here. Just being a top talent is not enough, and we've seen many examples of this in the past. There are plenty of other factors that play into it.

No it really isn't.

I can only assume that you don't watch our academy sides.  In an event, my comments and outlook on our young players are not black and white and I am well aware of the 'grey areas'.

[diegoLFC7]

Allan needs to be given a look for next season with the amount of games will play.

[sms1986]

Allan needs to be given a look for next season with the amount of games will play.

I think we're unable to play him due to visa issues, but hopefully he gets plenty of games with whoever he plays on loan for.

[diegoLFC7]

I think we're unable to play him due to visa issues, but hopefully he gets plenty of games with whoever he plays on loan for.

Shocking how he cant get a work permit. Hes played in 4 countries already!

[JoeCole]

A bit of positive news on Awoniyi today, his hamstring injury will only keep him out for another 3 weeks so his World Cup hopes are still alive. Assuming he doesn't play again for Mouscron this season (their season ends in 3 weeks) his final stats for the season are:

10 goals (1 every 245 mins) and 7 assists (1 every 350 mins) in 31 games, giving him a total goal contribution of every 144 minutes.

Also from an interview he done:

“I will need a work permit to play in England, but by the end of the season we will know my plans,” he disclosed.

“It’s possible I will go on loan again.

“Liverpool are not ready to sell me outrightly, I don’t think so.”

[rocco]

Cardiff beaten 3-1 by Derby , Marko Grujic left on the bench ( injured ?? )

[redgriffin73]

Cardiff beaten 3-1 by Derby , Marko Grujic left on the bench ( injured ?? )

Don't think he's injured, he seems to be playing every other game lately. Do they have to pay us more if he plays more or something?!

We could probably do with him back at Anfield right now to be honest!

[RJH]

Don't think he's injured, he seems to be playing every other game lately. Do they have to pay us more if he plays more or something?!

We could probably do with him back at Anfield right now to be honest!

I thought the deal was that the less he plays, the more it costs them?

[Talking Reds]

Don't think he's injured, he seems to be playing every other game lately. Do they have to pay us more if he plays more or something?!

We could probably do with him back at Anfield right now to be honest!

Think it's the other way round, they don't have to pay as long as they play him. He's only played in 1 of their last 5 matches (1-0 loss to Villa on 10/4) and seems to have fallen out of favour a bit. I wonder if Cardiff have hit their quota for playing him (11 appearances so far), although he seemed to be doing fairly well till April.

[JoeCole]

When Grujic signed for Cardiff their entire midfield was injured. They've been slowly coming back over the weeks and are all available now, hence the limited game time.

[dakid]

The positions I've seen him play in from the time he broke into the Under-18's.

And what positions are those?

[BarryCrocker]

When Grujic signed for Cardiff their entire midfield was injured. They've been slowly coming back over the weeks and are all available now, hence the limited game time.

Would have thought that if he was on form he wouldn't be now getting benched it would be them waiting for the opportunity. A bit like Robertson v Moreno.

[B0151?]

Would have thought that if he was on form he wouldn't be now getting benched it would be them waiting for the opportunity. A bit like Robertson v Moreno.

It wouldn't be surprising if Warnock's inclination is to go for experience in the decisive part of the season. It would probably suggest that Gruijic hasn't been outstanding though, which you would hope he would be at this level if he had any chance of making it for us.

[rocco]

When Grujic signed for Cardiff their entire midfield was injured. They've been slowly coming back over the weeks and are all available now, hence the limited game time.

Their record with him in the side is fantastic.

Is he carrying a knock

[Sheer Magnetism]

I just looked at the fixtures. This Saturday, Wilson's team is playing Grujic's team. You're in direct competition! And don't go easy on each other just because you're teammates. I want to see you both fighting for your parent club's love! FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT!

[phil236849]

It wouldn't be surprising if Warnock's inclination is to go for experience in the decisive part of the season. It would probably suggest that Gruijic hasn't been outstanding though, which you would hope he would be at this level if he had any chance of making it for us.

They are calling for him to be back in the team on the Cardiff forum

Basically Gunnarson who has plenty of international experience (77 caps for Iceland, age 29) has taken his place.  As indicated above, Warnock has gone for experience.  It hasn't worked though, as Cardiff have lost two games with him out

[Dundalis]

No.

If I thought that, I would have said that.  I didn't and instead you've leapt to an inaccurate conclusion.

No it really isn't.

I can only assume that you don't watch our academy sides.  In an event, my comments and outlook on our young players are not black and white and I am well aware of the 'grey areas'.

No you just offer clipped statements and don't elaborate on anything. So I have lept to a conclusion. It's easy to just say something without providing a solution or reasoned argument.

I guarantee you if you just go ahead and make predictions on how the academy players careers are going to turn out, you are probably gonna be more wrong than right. History has proven more often than not the type of talent it takes to make a significant impact early in a players career at a top club.

I did used to watch a number of academy games when I had an LFC account few years back, but I haven't so much since then.

[Djimi Smicer34]

I did used to watch a number of academy games when I had an LFC account few years back, but I haven't so much since then.

Well there you go.

Agree to disagree on our young players and let’s move on.

[Dundalis]

Well there you go.

Agree to disagree on our young players and let’s move on.

Fine.

But your debating skills are terrible. Or I guess non existant is the correct term.

[Djimi Smicer34]

Fine.

But your debating skills are terrible. Or I guess non existant is the correct term.

Why would I debate with someone who freely admits that they haven’t watched the players they’re trying to stir up a debate about?

I have no desire whatsoever to debate with you.

[Dundalis]

Why would I debate with someone who freely admits that they haven’t watched the players they’re trying to stir up a debate about?

I have no desire whatsoever to debate with you.

Never said I haven't watched them at all. I said I haven't watched nearly as much of the youth teams as I used to. I've seen plenty of Woodburn, I've seen plenty of players like Wilson, Kent, Ojo etc. They were around when I was watching a lot more youth football. I have a very good understanding of their strengths and weaknesses. The newer players like Jones, Brewster I've seen less of, just bits and pieces, hence me asking for opinions on them earlier. Nice to see you take your own lesson about leaping to conclusions though, congrats.

[xbugawugax]

hull vs cardiff now on

wilson starts...grujic just subbed in after 10 minutes.

[dakid]

hull vs cardiff now on

wilson starts...grujic just subbed in after 10 minutes.

And subbed off at half time it seems. Probably because he got a yellow and he was a liability with it?

[mrantarctica]

That's the thing though, top clubs don't need to produce that type of talent on a consistent basis because they have the funds to go out and either buy that player from another club (watch us potentially go and buy Sessegnon), or others a bit older who've developed into a top level player already. I fully expect us to be in that bracket this summer and going after the likes of Pulisic who's 19 and playing top flight football consistently, or those older established players like maybe Dybala or Isco. That's who these kids will be competing with, the players in the bracket of the best in the world. So unless they have that ability, they may play some games, but they just aren't likely to do a Steven Gerrard. Alexander Arnold for example, has improved significantly as the season has gone on, and everyone is in love with him right now (after crapping on him a mere few months ago) but I could easily see us buying in his position in a year or two if the right player comes along, not to mention right back is probably not even his preferred position.

TAA is a good player. Maybe there will be another really dashing top notch FB in a couple of years time (lets say the RB version of Sessegnon). Will spending 20m on such a young starlet really produce significantly better results? It will depend on TAA's level at the time, his consistency and what our squad looks like I think. But I don't think we'd be buying such players just because we can.

All we can do is wait and see. There are too many people in football that think they know which players will be the top pro's eventually and which players won't be. I reckon their hit rate is only marginally better than guessing - though I accept that is just my opinion. I think its a lot more nuanced and complicated and so much so that meaningful predictions are difficult to make.

In terms of loan time, certainly I think Wilson and Grujic have done their aspirations no harm at all by the way they have applied themselves - Wilson in particular. Grujic seems to not be getting picked regularly any more but Wilson certainly has put forward a strong application to be included in our squad next year, especially seeing that we are perhaps a bit short in the front 3 roles. Grujic, I thought, would have a golden opportunity to go and play that No.6 role and put forward a strong claim, seeing that we don't have a lot of natural strength/depth in that position.

To me it seems easier for young attackers to make their mark on loan. I'm not sure that many clubs are keen to take a gamble on loan defenders unless they are really interested in using it as avenue to sign the player. I think to progress young defenders at the club, another path is required, not just going out on loans - perhaps something like a buy back clause for young defenders that get sold to lower clubs but then really flourish with regular game time. Just take Connor Coady for instance - gone out to Wolves and cemented his place in the side as their captain, and was player of the season for them this year and they have been promoted. Now I'm not saying for a 2nd that we should go out and sign Conor Coady, but lets say that he then plays premier league next year or so and plays outstandingly well and further develops into a good PL defender - then surely you'd want the option of being able to buy him back at a somewhat reduced rate?

[Claude Cat]

Flanagan's contract is up this summer isn't it? No way that's getting renewed.