Topic: Electric cars

[Sudden Death Draft Loser]

They reviewed the Nissan Leaf on the show.

They said (Depending on your electric company in the UK) it could cost £9 to charge and it did about 100 miles (It claimed more on the range)

About 100 miles is correct (i know someone who runs an electric car rental company in Cornwall). The range is plenty for most people for most of the year, i.e. commuting, shopping etc.

[boots]

Electric cars have been viable for a least 2 decades. There is a great documentary called "Who Killed the Electric Car ?" General motors recalled and crushed a significant number of them for no apparent reason. Those that had bought them loved them.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_Killed_the_Electric_Car%3F

The issue is the batteries, the cars are superb. With a proper network of charge points/battery exchange stations (in petrol stations would be ideal) there is no problem. With the necessary and inevitable increase in wind power in the UK, electric cars could prove to be very useful re "grid stabilization" and use of power generated by wind at night when consumer demand is low.

As with most other things, people are frightened of change.

Not when there's 20million electric cars charging over night there isnt. Be a lot of wind needed then. Cheap evening leccy would come to an end once the utility companies realised there's a profit to be made. Fact is until we sort out our power generation most of the power will come from coal and gas with a bit of nuke chucked in. Wind isnt the only answer. On its own it cannot satisfy our ever increasing demand. It needs to be part of a coherent strategy alongside other technologies. Besides using power efficiently isnt the answer, we need to stop using it completely in many instances.

Eleccy cars were not viable 20yrs ago. The market decides whats viable and thats only starting to bubble up nowadays. Tis true that its the battery that holds them back, crack that and bingo. We need them to charge v quickly and to be recharged an indefinite number of times. Currently i will wait until they work properly before i sell my old banger. I have no doubt that the technology will come to fruition and that electric cars make complete sense but not just yet for the majority of us. I cannot afford to fund their research buy purchasing one. Leave that to the actors in Hollywood in their Prius's, they can afford it.

Yes people are frightened of change but once they do become viable and they notice the even more frightening cost of petrol, theyll soon change over. I love the idea of them. Nice and clean with no exhaust fumes etc. Trouble is batteries are full of really nasty things and their production intrinsic energies need better understanding before we can declare them the panacea of all our transport ills. Until then i will continue to walk. Its cheap, clean (excluding occasional methane generation), and for the most part convenient.

I'd be really interested to watch that documentary. The wiki was very interesting. Thanks.

[Gromit]

Don't believe this at all; no tax, much lower fuel prices, much less maintenance. Propaganda from Clarkson.

But the resale value will be much less, especially if the battery needs replacing by then.  Not sure why people are so suspicious of the Top Gear piece, while they were obviously pissing about when they started pushing the cars I think their main point was the lack of practicality with recharging; the lack of recharge stations and the length of time it needed.  Clarkson and May have been pretty vocal supporters of hydrogen as an alternative fuel source, just needs some bugger to work out how to make the technology affordable and practical.

[Brian Blessed]

But the resale value will be much less, especially if the battery needs replacing by then.  Not sure why people are so suspicious of the Top Gear piece, while they were obviously pissing about when they started pushing the cars I think their main point was the lack of practicality with recharging; the lack of recharge stations and the length of time it needed.  Clarkson and May have been pretty vocal supporters of hydrogen as an alternative fuel source, just needs some bugger to work out how to make the technology affordable and practical.

Sure, it's not all in place yet, but how many petrol stations were around 110 years ago? I bet the writers of Top Carriage Magazine really took the piss out cars.

Clarkson clearly loves his petrol guzzlers, it's his thing and that's fine. But he clearly has an agenda and probably isn't the best person to lsiten to on this.

[boots]

The trouble with hydrogen fuel cells at the moment though is that you need to use electricity from the power stations to 'crack' water to get the hydrogen.

Its that old Conservation of Energy and that pesky 1st law of thermodynamics that gets us every time.

[NotAsBigDanno]

Don't believe this at all; no tax, much lower fuel prices, much less maintenance. Propaganda from Clarkson.

The new diesels are £30 a year tax and do 60-70 mpg with little maintenance whereas the maintenace costs of the new breed of all electric cars are an unknown at the moment.

[conman]

I wouldn't be too confident on anything Clarkson says about Electric cars, he always talks about fuel guzzlers and is a total petrol head. Would prefer to hear from people that have one and can talk from experience, as well as having some factual answers relating to the battery and maintenance etc.

[Sudden Death Draft Loser]

The trouble with hydrogen fuel cells at the moment though is that you need to use electricity from the power stations to 'crack' water to get the hydrogen.

Its that old Conservation of Energy and that pesky 1st law of thermodynamics that gets us every time.

There's a scientist on the "Who Killed the Electric Car" film who claims that 30 years ago the hydrogen economy was 30 years away, and that today (at time of filming) the hydrogen economy is .... guess what ....

30 years away.

[Sudden Death Draft Loser]

I wouldn't be too confident on anything Clarkson says about Electric cars, he always talks about fuel guzzlers and is a total petrol head. Would prefer to hear from people that have one and can talk from experience, as well as having some factual answers relating to the battery and maintenance etc.

Top gear is an "entertainment" program, not a science program. Clarkson is a dinosaur.

[keithcun]

Honestly, some of you.

These cars are aimed at people who do small commutes, ie work, shopping etc such as what the wife uses hers for.

The Fiesta, you can get a 1.6 Fiesta Titanium, brand new, around  £12,500. She does between 3- 4,000 miles a year at an average of 40 mpg. So that's around £600 a year on fuel. Be less if you bought diesel but we're not having one of those in the family either. Tax, £115. Insurance £290.

The Nissan Leaf, the cheapest available I think, not taking into account it's not as good as the Fiesta as an all round car or taking into account the limits of electricity powered vehicles, costs £26,000 with grant included. No tax obviously. Insurance, £400.

So, the tax and insurance and pretty much the same so it's all down to cost of car and how much to run it.

How on earth can anyone suggest that the Leaf is a good financial proposition? £13,500 difference is a lot of petrol, 22 years in this case and that's compared against a similar size car with a large engine, never mind something with a 1.2 that would still perform better.

[greenone]

A Prius will be my next car. And if I ever see Larry David driving around he better wave.

Why? If you want a green car go buy a small deisel. The Prius, is a fashion statement it isn't green.

[Brian Blessed]

Why? If you want a green car go buy a small deisel. The Prius, is a fashion statement it isn't green.

Who said I give a fuck about it being green. The diesels available to me get around 35 mpg, the Prius gets 55, and the vehicle price difference is minor. In fact, having had another look, the only small, non-luxury ones available to me are VWs.

My only statement is that I'm a mingebag.

[conman]

BMW takes charge of its future

The Bavarian firm’s first electric cars combine the latest in powertrain development with lightweight materials

THE ELECTRIC car debate is set to move into the premium segment by 2013 as BMW and Audi prepare to do battle with new plug-in models, the latest of which were unveiled last week.

After several months of hype, BMW has finally unveiled its plans for a future electric division, under the “i” moniker. While the cars will still carry the premium brands logo, the “i” will be run as a sub-brand, along the lines of its current high-performance M division.

With range anxiety – the fear of running out of electric charge – dominating buyer reticence, the Bavarian-based car firm is taking a catholic approach to the electric debate, offering a fully-electric supermini, the i3, capable of 150km on a single charge, but adding the option of a small petrol engine that can be used as a generator to extend the range. Alongside this comes the i8 supercar, a plug-in hybrid that runs on electric power for 35km and then becomes a regular hybrid, mixing whatever regenerative power it can source from braking and the like with a 1.5-litre 220bhp petrol engine. The battery takes 105 minutes to charge to full to give you that 35km range.

While the technology involved is new to BMW, it’s not new to market, with rivals Audi planning to begin sales of an electric version of its R8 supercar next year, while electric versions of its A1 and plug-in hybrid versions of its A3 are due for sale in 2014.

The move to plug-in hybrid suggests that for all the criticism of Toyota, their hybrid strategy seems to have been spot on.

BMW is quick to point out, however, that the innovation in its i sub-brand doesn’t start and end with the electric motors. New carbon-fibre bodyframes and plastic panelling dramatically reduce the weight of its i models (in part to compensate for the heavy batteries required), while inside the use of naturally tanned leather and hemp fibre in the floors make the cars more environmentally friendly.

Norbert Reithofer, BMW’s chief executive, refused to be pinned down on pricing for the i3 or i8 but suggested the latter will cost more than €100,000.

When asked directly at the press conference how much the cars might cost, he responded in the style of Yoda from Star Wars. Dr Reithofer called on all present to remember when the horse was the dominant mode of transport in 1900 and then within 25 years it was largely replaced by the car. And that was it. Next question, please.

As we scrambled to Google the prices of horses 111 years ago – and work out potential inflation since then – the next question was how many of these cars BMW will build? The head of production took up this particular tricky question, responding that they will make as many as the market requires and they will be well able to meet demand.

So what we now know about the future i range is pretty much what we did before we entered the auditorium. Two models for launch by 2013.

We also know that BMW is betting that by creating new models from scratch, rather than converting current models to electric, it has ensured that it doesn’t have to make compromises along the way. And that’s perhaps where the Bavarians may really reap rewards.

Starting from a relatively blank canvass they’ve combined the latest advances in electric powertrain development with the latest lightweight and environmentally friendly materials to come up with a range of models that, the brand hopes, will give owners in the premium segment the sort of eco-friendly credibility that Toyota Prius owners have enjoyed for several years.

Aside from showing BMW’s eco-credentials, the new cars will also bolster the attack against perceptions that electric cars are slow. The i8 has a 0-100km/h time of 4.6 seconds, while even the i3 records a respectable time of 7.9 seconds.

Range will remain the greatest stumbling block for electric cars, but while the Bavarians hope that battery developments will allow future additions to the i range to boast greater distances between charges, in the meantime its mix of electric options seems very wise.

The full electric i3 will work for owners looking for a second car to run around the city, while the i8 looks like a proper sports car with the figures to support it. The success of this sub-brand will, of course, depend on pricing, but for now horse trading from the 1900soffers little insight.

FACTFILE

i3 concept

Wheelbase 2,570mm

Seats 4

Kerb weight 1,250kg

Output 170bhp/250Nm

Top speed 150km/h

0-100km/h 7.9 secs

Electric range 130-160km

Luggage space 200 litres


i8 concept

Wheelbase 2,800mm

Seats 2+2

Kerb weight 1,480kg

Output 350bhp (220bhp 1.5-litre petrol and 130bhp electric motor)

Top speed 250km/h

0-100km/h 4.6 secs

Full electric range 35km (after which it becomes a hybrid, mixing engine and regenerative power)

Luggage space 150 litres


http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/motors/2011/0803/1224301766488.html

[Sudden Death Draft Loser]

I don't think many are "getting it". Like or not, and most don't, or are "burying their heads...", we are running out of easily extractable oil, the result being that oil is becoming more expensive. So ignoring the issues re climate change, which again most are doing, we have a problem. Electricity generated by renewable technologies is the "greenest" fuel, especially wind. However, storage is a real issue. Currently pumped storage, fly wheels, and batteries are the only storage means. Renewable generation is unpredictable, wind especially so, and the wind still blows when consumer demand is low, i.e at night. It seems to me that a good solution is to store this excess power in car batteries, with the best time to do this being at night. Sure current charge times are high, and the range is relatively low, but as the above article shows, this is improving.

[reniformis]

Honestly, some of you.

These cars are aimed at people who do small commutes, ie work, shopping etc such as what the wife uses hers for.

The Fiesta, you can get a 1.6 Fiesta Titanium, brand new, around  £12,500. She does between 3- 4,000 miles a year at an average of 40 mpg. So that's around £600 a year on fuel. Be less if you bought diesel but we're not having one of those in the family either. Tax, £115. Insurance £290.

The Nissan Leaf, the cheapest available I think, not taking into account it's not as good as the Fiesta as an all round car or taking into account the limits of electricity powered vehicles, costs £26,000 with grant included. No tax obviously. Insurance, £400.

So, the tax and insurance and pretty much the same so it's all down to cost of car and how much to run it.

How on earth can anyone suggest that the Leaf is a good financial proposition? £13,500 difference is a lot of petrol, 22 years in this case and that's compared against a similar size car with a large engine, never mind something with a 1.2 that would still perform better.

As it stands, you are right. BUT who knows what the situation will be in 5 or 10 years time. The cost of these cars will come down once people start following the early adopters. The increased cost of petrol/diesel. Tax breaks. In fact, don't be surprised if in 10 years time every city centre is a congestion/pollution charge zone. Electric cars are exempt and that's a tenner a day you're saving if you drive through London. A possible £2500 a year saving, with say half your fuel bills. If the congestion charge gets rolled out across the country, there's a lot of people who would seriously think about taking the plunge.

[keithcun]

I don't think many are "getting it". Like or not, and most don't, or are "burying their heads...", we are running out of easily extractable oil, the result being that oil is becoming more expensive. So ignoring the issues re climate change, which again most are doing, we have a problem. Electricity generated by renewable technologies is the "greenest" fuel, especially wind. However, storage is a real issue. Currently pumped storage, fly wheels, and batteries are the only storage means. Renewable generation is unpredictable, wind especially so, and the wind still blows when consumer demand is low, i.e at night. It seems to me that a good solution is to store this excess power in car batteries, with the best time to do this being at night. Sure current charge times are high, and the range is relatively low, but as the above article shows, this is improving.

We get it, it's a load of bollocks, we're just not having it.

Electric isn't the answer. Maybe in 10/15 years time it will be affordable and practical, but at the moment it isn't, there are far better alternatives. I care more about my back pocket than I do about renewable energy. I'll let the people who are around when the resources have dried up to worry about that then, it certainly won't be in any of our lifetimes.

Anyone who buys a Leaf or that Honda instead of a diesel/petrol car wants their bumps feeling.

And you can shove your climate change up your arse, never have and never will believe all that shite. Maybe if the governments spent a bit more time and money on public transport and stopped the degradation and closures of large localised buisnesses and industries over the last 30 yrs, then every family wouldn't need a car or three to go about their life such as comuting ouitside their locale to find work.

They didn't give a shit about me or many thousands like me, so now it's my turn, they can do one.

[keithcun]

As it stands, you are right. BUT who knows what the situation will be in 5 or 10 years time. The cost of these cars will come down once people start following the early adopters. The increased cost of petrol/diesel. Tax breaks. In fact, don't be surprised if in 10 years time every city centre is a congestion/pollution charge zone. Electric cars are exempt and that's a tenner a day you're saving if you drive through London. A possible £2500 a year saving, with say half your fuel bills. If the congestion charge gets rolled out across the country, there's a lot of people who would seriously think about taking the plunge.

Will they?

Like Diesels are cheaper than petrol cars, or diesel fuel is cheaper than petrol. Don't believe it, there in it for the money, nothing else. I think last year, maybe the year before, diesel cars outsold petrol, but like for like they are still more expensive and so is the fuel.

You think the energy companies won't cotton on to people plugging their cars in to recharge them, as was said earlier. It's all about money, money and money and that's why mines staying in my pocket or being spent on what I enjoy.

I think my next car will be a V8, bollocks to 'em.

[Sudden Death Draft Loser]

We get it, it's a load of bollocks, we're just not having it.
 I care more about my back pocket than I do about renewable energy. I'll let the people who are around when the resources have dried up to worry about that then, it certainly won't be in any of our lifetimes.


And you can shove your climate change up your arse, never have and never will believe all that shite.

No kids ?, no relatives with kids ?

Employed by Shell ? B.P. ?

I could go on, but it ain't worth it.

[gamble]

I'm involved in some of the technology and infrastructure behind electric cars. Personally I prefered hydreogen powered cars but the market,infrastructure and network for electric cars is years ahead of hydreogen. the plug issue is the biggest problem and it is not for everyone. People with nice off road parking will be sorted but it will never be an option for those who park in the road.

If i had to bet, Hybrid engines will be the majority of cars sold in the next decade. but electric cars for commercial vehicles, distribution and council/government/emergency vehicles is a very realistic option. lots are out there already.

[keithcun]

No kids ?, no relatives with kids ?

Employed by Shell ? B.P. ?

I could go on, but it ain't worth it.

No, yes, no and still don't give a shit. I'm not being brain washed by the eco warriors.

If they want people out of cars, sort out public transport.

[reniformis]

No, yes, no and still don't give a shit. I'm not being brain washed by the eco warriors.

If they want people out of cars, sort out public transport.

It's not about eco warriors. It's about eco nomics. I agree with you. Fuck 'em. I'm not buying an electric car anytime soon either. But my car isn't going to last forever and I can see a tipping point in the near future where it becomes a real choice when changing your car. Not forced on you, but a real choice. On the eco thing, I'm nursing a 15-year-old conventional gas boiler through the end of its life and when it finally shuffles off its mortal heating coil I'm not automatically going to get a combi/condensing boiler that packs in after 3 years like you're supposed to. I'll look at solar panels and do the sums before I rip out the hot water cylinder and end up having to put one back in again in 3, 5, 7 or 10 years time. I'm not an eco warrior, but I'm not going to dismiss their ideas as worthless.

[boots]

In order to run solar thermal panels you will still need a boiler and you will need a cylinder. You need the boiler to do the heating. The solar thermal only does hot water and you still need the boiler to pasteurise the cylinder now and again. You need the cylinder for somewhere to put the heat.

[Red Beret]

You might not be able to travel  more than 70 miles unless you're planning to stay overnight where your headed but for the daily school run, work commute etc they're more than adequate.  I am sure there is technology available to build a more efficient infrastructure to support electric cars but there's just too much money to be made in petrol for the time being.

Look at it this way: if everybody had an electric car what would happen to government revenues without fuel tax?  Don't tell me they wouldn't try to find a way to tax "transport electricity".  And I can't even drive...

[John C]

Its an interesting era and quite simply the battery life is just guess work at the moment.

Its good to see so many models being launched because the pioneering technology really does need testing. However, its not so pioneering, the actual range achieved from electric cars and vans compared to 10 years ago has probably only increased by 50%. Even in some cases where its increased by 100%, in real terms that's gone from 30 miles to 60 miles range on a full charge - in 2011. Quite disappointing.

I won't name names but some of the systems are not user friendly and its too easy to leave a switch on in the car which drains a small battery that activates the main battery. So basically you get in the car in the morning and your fucked.

Try getting one serviced and see how long it disappears for - longer that Smicer put it that way.

However, the massive, massive point that needs highlighting is the winter affect. When you put the heater, lights, demister etc on it diminishes the range by up to 50%. So, if you've got a good model that gives you a reasonable 70 mile range (not 100 miles as it says on the tin) which is reduced to 30 miles in the winter, you need to take a blanky with you to park up to keep warm while the fucking thing charges.

Despite the above I love them, they drive brilliantly and are as nippy as fuck - roll on the next generation of affordable batteries.

They can be very dangerous due to the quietness, so drivers should really take extra care.

Enjoy, but be prepared for disappointment, customer care let down and failure.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Electric cars have been viable for a least 2 decades. There is a great documentary called "Who Killed the Electric Car ?" General motors recalled and crushed a significant number of them for no apparent reason. Those that had bought them loved them.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_Killed_the_Electric_Car%3F

The issue is the batteries, the cars are superb. With a proper network of charge points/battery exchange stations (in petrol stations would be ideal) there is no problem. With the necessary and inevitable increase in wind power in the UK, electric cars could prove to be very useful re "grid stabilization" and use of power generated by wind at night when consumer demand is low.

As with most other things, people are frightened of change.

What if we run out of wind?

[Andy @ Allerton!]

A typical stunt by a "petrol head" dinosaur. The man is a disgrace.

Why is he a disgrace?

If you read the link I posted, they did it on purpose to see what would happen if you ran of power and how easy it would be to charge it up.

What's wrong with that? Why is that not a viable test? If you drove your electric car there what magic thing would happen for you to be easily charge your car when they could not?

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Don't believe this at all; no tax, much lower fuel prices, much less maintenance. Propaganda from Clarkson.

You don't tend to have to buy a new engine in your average car every 5 years though. That would certainly add to the cost at £9,000 a pop.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Sure, it's not all in place yet, but how many petrol stations were around 110 years ago? I bet the writers of Top Carriage Magazine really took the piss out cars.

Clarkson clearly loves his petrol guzzlers, it's his thing and that's fine. But he clearly has an agenda and probably isn't the best person to lsiten to on this.

"Top carriage magazine"

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Who said I give a fuck about it being green. The diesels available to me get around 35 mpg, the Prius gets 55, and the vehicle price difference is minor. In fact, having had another look, the only small, non-luxury ones available to me are VWs.

My only statement is that I'm a mingebag.

My diesel does about 50 - 60 mpg (1.7 CDTi)

[Andy @ Allerton!]

I don't think many are "getting it". Like or not, and most don't, or are "burying their heads...", we are running out of easily extractable oil, the result being that oil is becoming more expensive. So ignoring the issues re climate change, which again most are doing, we have a problem. Electricity generated by renewable technologies is the "greenest" fuel, especially wind. However, storage is a real issue. Currently pumped storage, fly wheels, and batteries are the only storage means. Renewable generation is unpredictable, wind especially so, and the wind still blows when consumer demand is low, i.e at night. It seems to me that a good solution is to store this excess power in car batteries, with the best time to do this being at night. Sure current charge times are high, and the range is relatively low, but as the above article shows, this is improving.

Are you actually mad mate

You just said.. "We are running out of.."

Now, this may come as something of a surprise to you, but building a new car requires materials. These materials are not just lying around - you have to use fuel (And lots of it) to obtain it - some of which is digging it out of the ground, others involve getting it then expending lots of energy to change it to a usable state. Once that state has been achieved, then you use a shit load more energy to put it into the shape of a car. Then you put all the bits around the car - do you know what tyres are made of for instance? Then you transport it to whereever you're going to sell it. This takes fuel, fuel, fuel, raw materials, fuel and more fuel.

There is no such thing as a 'green car'. There will never, ever be such a thing as a 'green car'. They cost a lot to the environment and they use up a load of fuel and energy to deliver. They aren't free. They aren't green. Even if you got one that didn't use any energy - it wouldn't be green due to all the stuff you have to collect and put together. It's a myth.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

We get it, it's a load of bollocks, we're just not having it.

Electric isn't the answer. Maybe in 10/15 years time it will be affordable and practical, but at the moment it isn't, there are far better alternatives. I care more about my back pocket than I do about renewable energy. I'll let the people who are around when the resources have dried up to worry about that then, it certainly won't be in any of our lifetimes.

Anyone who buys a Leaf or that Honda instead of a diesel/petrol car wants their bumps feeling.

And you can shove your climate change up your arse, never have and never will believe all that shite. Maybe if the governments spent a bit more time and money on public transport and stopped the degradation and closures of large localised buisnesses and industries over the last 30 yrs, then every family wouldn't need a car or three to go about their life such as comuting ouitside their locale to find work.

They didn't give a shit about me or many thousands like me, so now it's my turn, they can do one.

Correct. Any firm (Especially things like IT firms) that bleat on about 'being green' and then force their employees to travel to an office when they can set up PROPER remote access and PROPER remote meeting rooms can fuck off. They aren't green.

It is idiotic that you can't stay at home and do your stuff there when you don't need to be physically present.

But the Government won't do that - because if everyone stayed at home then they wouldn't buy fuel and wouldn't pay the fuel duty and the country and the world would go bust overnight.

[Sudden Death Draft Loser]

Are you actually mad mate

You just said.. "We are running out of.."

Now, this may come as something of a surprise to you, but building a new car requires materials. These materials are not just lying around - you have to use fuel (And lots of it) to obtain it - some of which is digging it out of the ground, others involve getting it then expending lots of energy to change it to a usable state. Once that state has been achieved, then you use a shit load more energy to put it into the shape of a car. Then you put all the bits around the car - do you know what tyres are made of for instance? Then you transport it to whereever you're going to sell it. This takes fuel, fuel, fuel, raw materials, fuel and more fuel.

There is no such thing as a 'green car'. There will never, ever be such a thing as a 'green car'. They cost a lot to the environment and they use up a load of fuel and energy to deliver. They aren't free. They aren't green. Even if you got one that didn't use any energy - it wouldn't be green due to all the stuff you have to collect and put together. It's a myth.

Perfectly aware of all that, and can't disagree. So what's the solution ? Go back to horse and cart ?

[Andy @ Allerton!]

You might not be able to travel  more than 70 miles unless you're planning to stay overnight where your headed but for the daily school run, work commute etc they're more than adequate.  I am sure there is technology available to build a more efficient infrastructure to support electric cars but there's just too much money to be made in petrol for the time being.

Look at it this way: if everybody had an electric car what would happen to government revenues without fuel tax?  Don't tell me they wouldn't try to find a way to tax "transport electricity".  And I can't even drive...

Again. Bollocks to that. "The local fucking school run"

For fucks sake.

Look at the problems:

1. Ecological issues
2. Too much traffic
3. Fat bastard lazy twats of kids
4. Too many obese people

Erm..

Get your kids to walk/cycle to school. Fucking walk/cycle with them if you think they aren't safe. So what if it's 2-3 miles? I used to walk that far and more.

1. Ecological issues reduced. No energy used to create loads of plastic and metal and no fuel used to drive said plastic and metal
2. Reduces traffic
3. Fat bastard kids slim down because they are doing excercise for once in their tubby lives
4. Fat bastard parents slim down because they are doing excercise again in their tubby lives


The environment wins. The pocket wins. The kids win. The parents win.

Get out of cars. Use your legs or ride a bike. Everybody wins. THIS is the real answer. Not some fucking tart driving a fuck off 4x4 to take fucking Tarquin and fucking Jessica fucking 40 yards down the fucking road to their ever so fucking posh twatty school. Fucking walk you lazy fuckers.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Perfectly aware of all that, and can't disagree. So what's the solution ? Go back to horse and cart ?

See my last post

[Sudden Death Draft Loser]

See my last post

Agreed again. Good post.

I have been arguing for years that the real solution is reducing our consumption.

[Red Beret]

Again. Bollocks to that. "The local fucking school run"

For fucks sake.

Look at the problems:

1. Ecological issues
2. Too much traffic
3. Fat bastard lazy twats of kids
4. Too many obese people

Erm..

Get your kids to walk/cycle to school. Fucking walk/cycle with them if you think they aren't safe. So what if it's 2-3 miles? I used to walk that far and more.

1. Ecological issues reduced. No energy used to create loads of plastic and metal and no fuel used to drive said plastic and metal
2. Reduces traffic
3. Fat bastard kids slim down because they are doing excercise for once in their tubby lives
4. Fat bastard parents slim down because they are doing excercise again in their tubby lives

The environment wins. The pocket wins. The kids win. The parents win.

Get out of cars. Use your legs or ride a bike. Everybody wins. THIS is the real answer. Not some fucking tart driving a fuck off 4x4 to take fucking Tarquin and fucking Jessica fucking 40 yards down the fucking road to their ever so fucking posh twatty school. Fucking walk you lazy fuckers.

I don't have kids mate, or a car for that matter.  I was just pointing out that the electric car is fine as a short range vehicle.   

Fact is people do work commutes and school runs with petrol cars and unless you're planning on banning car use for such things then people will use them regardless of how they're powered.  I imagine most parents feel they can't afford the time to walk/cycle with their kids to school because jobs these days crush us for every second's worth of work they can squeeze out of us. 

But certainly it makes the case for an electric school bus.

[John C]

Why? If you want a green car go buy a small deisel. The Prius, is a fashion statement it isn't green.

Diesel cars emit far less CO2 than a petrol equivalent so it has less of an impact on the planet & global warming, however diesels emit significantly harmful levels of Particulates (carcinogenic) and Nitrogen Oxides (despite NOX filters) which are harmful to people with respiratory problems. Overall diesels are harmful to health. They may be more economical so use less of the infinite resources that we have but a small petrol car with a low CO2 is just as green as diesel.

[NotAsBigDanno]

Diesel cars emit far less CO2 than a petrol equivalent so it has less of an impact on the planet & global warming, however diesels emit significantly harmful levels of Particulates (carcinogenic) and Nitrogen Oxides (despite NOX filters) which are harmful to people with respiratory problems. Overall diesels are harmful to health. They may be more economical so use less of the infinite resources that we have but a small petrol car with a low CO2 is just as green as diesel.

All new diesels now have particulate filters. I drive a Honda civic 2.2 diesel which gives me 55-60mpg on a long run and 40-45 mpg round town its £115 a year to tax and if i want will do 0-60 in just over 8 secs. I will not be buying an electric car in the forseable future unless the price comes down to 15k

[helmboy_nige]

Got a Prius currently and it's a great car.  PLan is to go for something like the New all electric Rav4 in a couple of years, use that for all the commutes, day-to-day stuff and then have cheap car for travelling longer distances.

Not sure about the batteries, in the Prius it has a lifetime guarantee and will be replaced if it dies.

[Art Vandelay]

We all know why there isn't a large number of electric cars on the road....