Topic: Doesn't matter who you vote for as long as it's for the right reasons!

[DJBrenton]

Im in agreement with the sentiment of your post hence asking has he asked them to explain their thought processes. I'd like to hear their responses to try and better undrstand their viewpoint.

Back in the late 80's I voted Tory because I cared about people. I was raised in a house where the Daily Mail dropped through the door every morning so my opinions were based on what I 'knew'. I wanted a sustainable welfare system, and I was led to believe that Labour would be so bad for our economy that the country would not be able to sustain the NHS or benefit system. I believed that people who voted Labour were foolish and didn't understand economics. It annoyed me that Conservative voters were all stigmatised as 'uncaring' when my very reasons for voting the way I did was because I cared. Like me, many people believed in trickle down economics and that what was good for business was good for everyone. I did discover what was really at the heart of the Conservative party in time but only because I was involved in politics. For many, a cursory glance at the headlines is as much interest as they take, so to characterise them as somehow evil because their worldview has been shaped by what they are told every day is wrong. You can use 'ignorant' but it shouldn't be a perjorative. It's the state our media want us in and it works.

[Robinred]

Brummies🙄

Watching that focus group where no one seemed to understand anything (“you’ll get a straight answer from Johnson”, “Labour don’t seem to be for the common working people any more”, “ the billionaires will lose lots of money with Brexit, that’s why we haven’t left”) etc. made me want to put my foot through the t.v. If it hadn’t been Ch. 4 I’d have suspected it was rigged.

What it did do was remind me of my quite unnerving, but deeply felt thought after the referendum, that I truly no longer believed implicitly, in universal suffrage.

[killer-heels]

Brummies🙄

Watching that focus group where no one seemed to understand anything (“you’ll get a straight answer from Johnson”, “Labour don’t seem to be for the common working people any more”, “ the billionaires will lose lots of money with Brexit, that’s why we haven’t left”) etc. made me want to put my foot through the t.v. If it hadn’t been Ch. 4 I’d have suspected it was rigged.

What it did do was remind me of my quite unnerving, but deeply felt thought after the referendum, that I truly no longer believed implicitly, in universal suffrage.

There were loads of contradictions. The billionaires will lose a lot of money, but then asked about the future loads of them talked about trade deals with the USA.

I hate and practically never talk politics with anyone in the real world bar 1 or 2 good friends and my other half but sometimes you wish you could be in these groups and go all Frank Grimes on it (the bit where he has a go at Homer, not when he kills himself).

[filopastry]

Unsurprisingly the JLM submission on antisemitism within the Labour party does not apparently make particularly pleasant reading.

https://www.scribd.com/document/438367082/Redacted-JLM-Closing-Submission-to-the-EHRC

[Snail]

 

[killer-heels]

Did Swinson have her Ed Milliband moment yesterday, apologizing for her voting record?

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Back in the late 80's I voted Tory because I cared about people. I was raised in a house where the Daily Mail dropped through the door every morning so my opinions were based on what I 'knew'. I wanted a sustainable welfare system, and I was led to believe that Labour would be so bad for our economy that the country would not be able to sustain the NHS or benefit system. I believed that people who voted Labour were foolish and didn't understand economics. It annoyed me that Conservative voters were all stigmatised as 'uncaring' when my very reasons for voting the way I did was because I cared. Like me, many people believed in trickle down economics and that what was good for business was good for everyone. I did discover what was really at the heart of the Conservative party in time but only because I was involved in politics. For many, a cursory glance at the headlines is as much interest as they take, so to characterise them as somehow evil because their worldview has been shaped by what they are told every day is wrong. You can use 'ignorant' but it shouldn't be a perjorative. It's the state our media want us in and it works.

Thanks for sharing that mate. I'm guessing you no longer vote Tory?

As for people 'not caring' or 'being oblivious' of the truth - I think these are correct. Yeah, people can stay in their self-affirming bubbles, but people that did care would step out of their 'safe area' and look at facts. Although they annoy me greatly, I'll read stuff from Right-Wing papers, independant papers and then papers that align with my world views.

I feel, personally, that for someone like me - not that bright - that getting a more rounded view on the way things are and they way they are portrayed is the best way for me to make my mind up on something.

That's why the BBC is good, to be fair, because they represent the Right, the Left, The Centre and the Far-Right - so the BBC will offer a more 'out of your zone' view than you'd get in partisan publications that fit your mindset anyway.

Addendum. ITV and Channel 4 and Sky are also good ways to see the other views on offer..

[drmick]

If the prospective PM is too cowardly to go on a TV show, what does that say about his ability to lead a nation?

There`s a pattern of behaviour from Johnson there and alarm bells should be ringing for those who are actually considering voting for him and his party.

He will still make a better PM than Corbyn though. That's an irrefutable fact.*


* According to everything I read in the papers, and from opinion polls, and from some quite intelligent RAWK members. So it must be true.

[classycarra]

He will still make a better PM than Corbyn though. That's an irrefutable fact.*


* According to everything I read in the papers, and from opinion polls, and from some quite intelligent RAWK members. So it must be true.

Hilarious lack of awareness, while making a point about facts, to end it with something entirely and sensationally made up.

Unless you can point us to these posts?

[Yorkykopite]

Yeah come on. Here's your big chance to show how rotten we are. Let's have the quotes drmick.

[KillieRed]

I’m reading the book about Jimmy Savile, “In Plain Sight”. Before the revelations of what he was actually like came out , upon his death, he was most famous for being a bit odd & for his long record of philanthropy. It’s said he raised millions for many causes, which often opened all kinds of actual doors for him.

The author suggests that his good works served two purposes; firstly that , perhaps they salved his guilty conscience in an attempt to balance the books of his lifelong behaviour. But, later, his charity work afforded him protection from those who knew what he was really like & from the prying eyes of those that were suspicious.

[filopastry]

Survation poll of Wrexham for the Economist implying that some parts of the Labour "Red Wall" might not be too sturdy.

[killer-heels]

Survation poll of Wrexham for the Economist implying that some parts of the Labour "Red Wall" might not be too sturdy.

Remainers fault.

[Sharado]

Survation poll of Wrexham for the Economist implying that some parts of the Labour "Red Wall" might not be too sturdy.

Jesus Christ I can't put into words how depressing that is.

[Sudden Death Draft Loser]

Jesus Christ I can't put into words how depressing that is.

Wrexham!!!

What the hell is going on?

Where are peoples heads at?

 

[Sharado]

Wrexham!!!

What the hell is going on?

Where are peoples heads at?

 

I'm from there originally. I've seen a bit of it on social media suggesting it's swinging that way to be honest. I saw a lad the other day posting a status about having been laid off and looking for work, 2 weeks later he has a 'vote conservative' banner on his facebook profile.

It's absolutely crushing that this is happening.

[TSC]

He (schofield) was like a dog with a bone last week with Corbyn in terms of hounding him to apologise for ‘anti semitism’.  And this week he’s having selfies with Johnson while his sidekick Holly giggles like a schoolgirl beside him.  Like it or not it is these images that will resonate with your average person watching daytime tv.

[TSC]

What it did do was remind me of my quite unnerving, but deeply felt thought after the referendum, that I truly no longer believed implicitly, in universal suffrage.

A work colleague has consistently referred to the fact only those who take some sort of test and score above ‘x’ should be able to vote.  To be fair he’s been saying this ever since the referendum.

[killer-heels]

He (schofield) was like a dog with a bone last week with Corbyn in terms of hounding him to apologise for ‘anti semitism’.  And this week he’s having selfies with Johnson while his sidekick Holly giggles like a schoolgirl beside him.  Like it or not it is these images that will resonate with your average person watching daytime tv.

It was hardly going to be a Paxman style grilling when you go on there. Schofield didnt even give Corbyn a hard time either.

[filopastry]

Always worthwhile listening to the vox pops from John Harris, even if you don't like what people are saying.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/video/2019/dec/05/anywhere-but-westminster-strength-of-labours-red-wall-will-sway-election-video

[killer-heels]

Always worthwhile listening to the vox pops from John Harris, even if you don't like what people are saying.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/video/2019/dec/05/anywhere-but-westminster-strength-of-labours-red-wall-will-sway-election-video

They are, but do they tell us anything new? People distrust Westminster, they hate politicians, their areas have turned to shite, etc.

[oldfordie]

They are, but do they tell us anything new? People distrust Westminster, they hate politicians, their areas have turned to shite, etc.

"They've shut down all the youth clubs, theres nothing for the young to do any more"
Who shut down the youth clubs, Tory cuts to local funding chopped by 60%.
These lads should know who there friend and enemies are but they don't. years of people telling them they cant tell the difference between the Tories and Labour has done a hell of a lot of harm to the Labour party.

[OOS]

He will still make a better PM than Corbyn though. That's an irrefutable fact.*


* According to everything I read in the papers, and from opinion polls, and from some quite intelligent RAWK members. So it must be true.

No one, I mean no one on RAWK has suggested this. I think we are universally against Johnson.

[KillieRed]

No one, I mean no one on RAWK has suggested this. I think we are universally against Johnson.

Bozo thinks he's Churchill, the stupid fecker doesnt realise that he's post-war Churchill: elitist, out of touch & unsuited to lead a modern country.

[killer-heels]

"They've shut down all the youth clubs, theres nothing for the young to do any more"
Who shut down the youth clubs, Tory cuts to local funding chopped by 60%.
These lads should know who there friend and enemies are but they don't. years of people telling them they cant tell the difference between the Tories and Labour has done a hell of a lot of harm to the Labour party.

Indeed and its going to be hard to address. But its made clear in this video that this malaise with Labour started well before Corbyn.

But just before someone else mentions it, I will say it. Corbyn’s fault. He should have backed Remain strongly.

[oldfordie]

Indeed and its going to be hard to address. But its made clear in this video that this malaise with Labour started well before Corbyn.

But just before someone else mentions it, I will say it. Corbyn’s fault. He should have backed Remain strongly.

Yeah Corbyns now paying the price for it as well.

[drmick]

No one, I mean no one on RAWK has suggested this. I think we are universally against Johnson.

Depends on your definition of "suggest". It sure would help if those members who are Corbyn's biggest critics could also indicate that they are even bigger critics of the Tories.

Is there a summary anywhere of the number or marginal constituencies? And the breakdown of whether they are Tory vs Lib Dem, Tory vs Labour etc?

I'd love to know just how many seats where it might make a difference if you hate Labour as much you hate Tory.

[Bobsackamano]

Depends on your definition of "suggest". It sure would help if those members who are Corbyn's biggest critics could also indicate that they are even bigger critics of the Tories.

Is there a summary anywhere of the number or marginal constituencies? And the breakdown of whether they are Tory vs Lib Dem, Tory vs Labour etc?

I'd love to know just how many seats where it might make a difference if you hate Labour as much you hate Tory.

You have a serious allegation, that some RAWK members believe Johnson would make a better PM than Corbyn. Either you are right, in which case provide some evidence, or you are wrong, in which case withdraw the allegation.

Its that simple.

[classycarra]

Depends on your definition of "suggest". It sure would help if those members who are Corbyn's biggest critics could also indicate that they are even bigger critics of the Tories.

Is there a summary anywhere of the number or marginal constituencies? And the breakdown of whether they are Tory vs Lib Dem, Tory vs Labour etc?

I'd love to know just how many seats where it might make a difference if you hate Labour as much you hate Tory.

drmick, on this page you've been more critical of RAWK than you have of the Tories. By your 'interesting' logic that suggests that you prefer the Tories to RAWK.

It sure would help if you, as a member and a RAWK critic, could do something to indicate that you have more of a problem with the Tories than you do with RAWK.

Perhaps you could show your support for RAWK, a website you've had an account on for over a decade?

Here's the link, to help you out:
https://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=74199.2320

(could someone please quote this quickly, so drmick can see it - he said he silenced me the other day after a disagreement)

[John C]

He will still make a better PM than Corbyn though. That's an irrefutable fact.*
* According to everything I read in the papers, and from opinion polls, and from some quite intelligent RAWK members. So it must be true.

BoRed said something similar but couldn't produce a shred of evidence when challenged. Can you back up that post mate?

[John C]

drmick, on this page you've been more critical of RAWK than you have of the Tories. By your 'interesting' logic that suggests that you prefer the Tories to RAWK.

It sure would help if you, as a member and a RAWK critic, could do something to indicate that you have more of a problem with the Tories than you do with RAWK.

Perhaps you could show your support for RAWK, a website you've had an account on for over a decade?

Here's the link, to help you out:
https://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=74199.2320

(could someone please quote this quickly, so drmick can see it - he said he silenced me the other day after a disagreement)

See above

[TepidT2O]

Depends on your definition of "suggest". It sure would help if those members who are Corbyn's biggest critics could also indicate that they are even bigger critics of the Tories.

Is there a summary anywhere of the number or marginal constituencies? And the breakdown of whether they are Tory vs Lib Dem, Tory vs Labour etc?

I'd love to know just how many seats where it might make a difference if you hate Labour as much you hate Tory.

I suggest that we use the literal meaning of suggest.

I’m not sure how difficult this is to explain. 

1. Everyone hates Johnson.

2. Everyone hates what the Tory party does to the country when it is in power.

People hate Corbyn primarily because he’s so fucking useless and unpalatable to the public that he makes 1 and 2 an inevitability.

People also hate Corbyn because he’s fundamentally utterly wrong on so many issues.  He represents the regressive left at its worst.

People fundamentally also hate Corbyn for the avalanche of hatred and discrimination that his election has unleashed in the Labour Party.

You don’t have to be intelligent to understand that mate.

[Dr. Beaker]

Has anyone ever seen those wildlife documentaries where there is a bunch of chimps and all of a sudden one of them starts screeching for some reason. Within seconds they are all screeching and generally getting hysterical and they don't really know why - just saying like.

[drmick]

See above

Thanks for that, I do have him/her blocked.

I can categorically confirm that I do not support the Tories, but I hope that such a statement was a joke and not an ironic case of whataboutery.  And I'd be pretty sure that I have never been critical of RAWK as a collective entity. It would be a bit silly to hate an entire organisation on the basis of the opinion of a minority of its members I would say.

[cdav]

Good to see Farrage actually questioned on issues and details, shame its over a decade too late

Good monologue by Neil at the end about Johnson too

[filopastry]

Good to see Farrage actually questioned on issues and details, shame its over a decade too late

Good monologue by Neil at the end about Johnson too

Yes very good from Neill

https://twitter.com/i/status/1202670854410297344

[BoRed]

BoRed said something similar but couldn't produce a shred of evidence when challenged. Can you back up that post mate?

I said what?

[Yorkykopite]

Yes very good from Neill

https://twitter.com/i/status/1202670854410297344

But, but....but Andrew Neil is a Tory and the BBC is the MSM etc etc etc.

If only the Labour party had a leader capable of making such points, with such panache and such authority.

[TepidT2O]

But, but....but Andrew Neil is a Tory and the BBC is the MSM etc etc etc.

If only the Labour party had a leader capable of making such points, with such panache and such authority.

He does have a dubious set of employment...

But he does hold everyone to account

[Yorkykopite]

He does have a dubious set of employment...

But he does hold everyone to account

The first is of absolutely no interest to me so long as the second holds true.