Topic: Darwin Núñez (Darwin Gabriel Núñez Ribeiro)

[Kansti]

I think he could benefit from adding more muscle mass to his frame this summer. He is too slight at times for his height. It shows in his aerial duels. Too easy to put off with a nudge. We can't control possession by lumping to his head when we need to. I'd argue that is true for his shooting as well. Lean into him a little and he misses the target. A few facets of his game should improve if he adds half a stone or so. His body should be mature enough to handle it now. Extra weight might reduce his stamina when sprinting, but should help against low blocks. If he doesn't want to place his shots, he can just hit them that much harder.     

I don’t really think he needs to add mass, he needs to add aggression to his game. He might be a hot-head, but actually looks rather tentative when competing against centre-backs. I’ve said the same for Luis Diaz. He’s skilful and a fighter when it comes to not giving up, but he lacks the aggression of penetrating a defence and taking defenders on, which was what Mane had in abundance.

Someone posted an article about how Slot basically sent one of the Feyenoord lads for Muay Thai classes to add that aggression to his game. A lot of our players need that lol. We are too nice.

[Lubeh]

I sometimes feel Nunez looks for Salah in every situation almost like he is afraid to take the shot especially of late, I wonder if its something to do mentally as in if i give to Salah he will hit the Target. I feel he oddily plays better when not with Salah , perhaps I am wrong.

[Mr Dilkington]

"He takes loads of good quality shots. There is literally nothing else to say".

Oh Ian you naive fool.

[Draex]

"He takes loads of good quality shots. There is literally nothing else to say".

Oh Ian you naive fool.

Pitty he misses 90% of them eh?

[Zlen]

My main concern is that whatever causes him to shoot like a panicked nun in a brothel - is simply embedded too deep. If it isn't, a patient coach can work with him to fix it. Limit his options and drill into him 'default' finishes, make them automatic. But there are no guarantees, because it could simply be a core element of who he is. With improved finishing Nunez could be a pretty valuable player, he isn't bad now, just not what we hoped for. But we could make him more lethal and useful.

[meady1981]

It’s interesting seeing all peoples stats and pie charts to why he shouldn’t or should be here.
Which I have absolutely no idea about and (with all due respect to you all) have absolutely no interest in.
I just know that after watching football for 30 odd years, that he’s never going to not be this version of himself and should not be part of a serious football team. No offence to the guy, and I’ll support him like I always do. But he’s not the one to lead us to glory and I’d have no problems if he wasn’t here next year if it was still Klopp and this team. But given that we’re starting over again, who knows. I still just dont like him as a player. All this chaos for defenders shite. I’d rather he was lethal and not chaotic. Which I think is impossible.
That concludes my analysis.

Oh, and I agreed with Michael Owen.

[spider-neil]

Suaurez's finishing was just as erratic at first. He was coached and his finishing improved.

[meady1981]

Suaurez's finishing was just as erratic at first. He was coached and his finishing improved.

I have not seen one second of evidence that he has the same ability to be as deft with the ball as Suarez was.

[Zlen]

Suaurez's finishing was just as erratic at first. He was coached and his finishing improved.

In a way its similar, but really not at all. Suarez was missing incredibly difficult shots, placed in the most challenging spots. He was and is a master of quick, outside of the boot curls away from the keeper. Nunez is mostly missing close, straightforward shots because he has no control over power he puts into or more commonly because he just smacks the keeper in the chest/face with it.

[Knight]

"He takes loads of good quality shots. There is literally nothing else to say".

Oh Ian you naive fool.

We should probably close the thread. The majority genuinely think this position is bonkers. The minority think it eminently sensible. And now the nerds have been given the keys those that matter think it sensible too.

[spider-neil]

I have not seen one second of evidence that he has the same ability to be as deft with the ball as Suarez was.

I've seen deft finishes from Nunez both domestically and internationally. If I hadn't seen it at all I would want him moved on just as badly as a lot of people seem to want. If he is sold then so be it but I personally would be actively looking to move him on.

[LiamG]

The thing is with Nunez you cant say he isn't a good finisher because some of the goals he's scored have been class

So is it all pressure? can the mental side of his game improve?

[RyanBabel19]

I have not seen one second of evidence that he has the same ability to be as deft with the ball as Suarez was.

There’s a lot of space to be occupied between Suarez and Nunez in that respect, Suarez is the highest of high expectations. I think the post is effectively saying he wouldn’t be the first player to improve his finishing, Suarez is just a relatively recent example not a like for like

[spider-neil]

I 100% think a player's finishing can be improved with coaching. It's like Owen and Sturridge have said with Nunez, he needs to create his go-to finish because his 'blast it straight at the keeper' finish obviously isn't working for him.

[mullyred94]

There's nothing wrong with Nunez being held to a higher standard when it comes to putting the ball in the net.

He's a capital C capital F centre forward.

He's not a winger/wide forward like Diaz who's often picking the ball up 50yds from goal hugging a touchline and covering a hell of a lot of ground before he even gets to the 18yd box.

He's not Gakpo who's a converted wide player, a gadget guy who's played at 7, 8, 10 and when he is a 9 he's more adept coming short and being a false 9 that a full fat CF.

Darwin is our guy between the width of the goal. That's his job. Putting the ball in the net is what he's there for. Cos he's not doing all the other stuff that a CF who's not your reliable source of goals is being asked to do. He doesn't knit our play up to and around the box. He doesn't drop in to midfield. He doesn't sacrifice his goalscoring positions in order to accentuate those of others by battling and holding off CBs with balls played in to his chest or in the air.

Nunez is a pure no9 who doesn't score enough goals. That's why he gets more heat than someone like Diaz.

Jota however is much more adjacent to Nunez and probably does deserve the smoke just as much as Darwin does for not being a reliable enough source of goals. Just so happens that if you're out of sight your often out of mind. Jota slips through the cracks because he's a crock.

If Nunez was a pure 9 why has he got such a good assist rate ?

Also like I’ve stated his played 1/3 of his games at LW just like Luis Diaz does.

[mullyred94]

Nobody lol. Nunez played LW 3 times in the league this season as listed by fbref, but when you check the actual heat map, only once has he actually played LW (the 4-0 at Bournemouth when Jota played striker).

You're implying that he also does the other jobs (building up play, picking up the ball from deep, pressing, defending etc.) as much as our other forwards do. No he doesn't.

Since you like stats here are some to disprove your above implication: Nunez has the lowest per90 numbers in the entire team (excluding the kids) in terms of passes, completed passes, progressive passes, touches, carries, recoveries, and tackles + interceptions (actually the last one one is second lowest, higher than Salah).

He's also lowest in take-ons, shot-creating actions and fouls drawn among our forwards, and second lowest in fouls commited, yet highest in yellow cards (probably due to his reactions).
He's lowest in the team in passes received, but at the same time 3rd highest in progressive passes received (meaning he doesn't drop deep to be involved in build up much, but receives the final balls more often).
He's obviously highest in the team in shots taken, and of course, offside (by a fucking mile, in fact almost equals the next 3 combined lol).

All of those numbers point to a forward who is involved the least in the general play of his team, and only focuses on one job: making runs and scoring goals. And it fits the eye test. So of course he is judged mostly by his end products while the other forwards get some leeway.

This also highlights how ludicrous it is that I saw in some pages ago when you or someone posted Mane and Firmino's GA numbers and be like: "oh look, Nunez's output is as good as these guys". Yeah. No shit. He has one job to do while Firmino and Mane had ten.

If his the lowest in SCA why is he the second highest in GCA?

Not like our LW has an xA of 10, his bang on for his assists.

[Mr Dilkington]

We should probably close the thread. The majority genuinely think this position is bonkers. The minority think it eminently sensible. And now the nerds have been given the keys those that matter think it sensible too.

It's a philosophical difference that is just too wide to bridge.

[Knight]

It's a philosophical difference that is just too wide to bridge.

Yep. And it’s actually really interesting to see just how far the ‘typical’ fan now is from the way that decisions are actually made at clubs (and how we’ve given Klopp the tools to be so successful).

[paddysour]

Suaurez's finishing was just as erratic at first. He was coached and his finishing improved.

The problem with Suarez was he played in an absolute shit team, and had to do it all on his own too often. Beating numerous players while being tugged left and right, before getting a shot away off balance. He very rarely got shots close to goal centrally. I remember Brendan Rodgers saying that their focus was on getting Suarez within the width of the goal for his shots, lo and behold he started banging them in. Darwin already gets his shots from exceptionally good positions. It's not an easy fix like Suarez.

[Andar]

We should probably close the thread. The majority genuinely think this position is bonkers. The minority think it eminently sensible. And now the nerds have been given the keys those that matter think it sensible too.

The thread still needs to stay open to discuss how much of a shocking footballer he is.

Someone like him needs to back himself with actual goals. Not XG. Not shot production. Not even actual assists. Goals to counterbalance the shoddy player we get on the whole. Instead we are getting <15 league goals seasons out of him mixed with his ability not even trap a ball and sufficiently link up play to an acceptable standard.

At least Lukaku backed himself with 15+ league goal seasons to mask over his awful attributes elsewhere . He was one didn't let variance hit him negatively.

Nunez can't even do that. We have to put up with his poor traits and along with that watch him continuously aim for the keepers noggin, or failing that hand the crowd a match ball souvenir.

He needs to hit 20 league goals next season. That is the minimum you should be getting from someone so lacking in basic attributes. Otherwise we need to start sending feelers to the clubs managed by Mourinho, Conte and Simeone. They are all exactly the type who would adore his tireless runs and great shot production. I mean he will miss the majority of them, but they will still end up besotted with how much he would fit their blueprint.

Hopefully from there.... we can hit on a player with elite underlying data and the basic attributes mixed in. Not even asking for someone who is of the standard of Kane or Havertz. Just someone who is at least average in the basic attributes that are needed to look like an accomplished footballer.

[mullyred94]

The thread still needs to stay open to discuss how much of a shocking footballer he is.

Someone like him needs to back himself with actual goals. Not XG. Not shot production. Not even actual assists. Goals to counterbalance the shoddy player we get on the whole. Instead we are getting <15 league goals seasons out of him mixed with his ability not even trap a ball and sufficiently link up play to an acceptable standard.

At least Lukaku backed himself with 15+ league goal seasons to mask over his awful attributes elsewhere . He was one didn't let variance hit him negatively.

Nunez can't even do that. We have to put up with his poor traits and along with that watch him continuously aim for the keepers noggin, or failing that hand the crowd a match ball souvenir.

He needs to hit 20 league goals next season. That is the minimum you should be getting from someone so lacking in basic attributes. Otherwise we need to start sending feelers to the clubs managed by Mourinho, Conte and Simeone. They are all exactly the type who would adore his tireless runs and great shot production. I mean he will miss the majority of them, but they will still end up besotted with how much he would fit their blueprint.

Hopefully from there.... we can hit on a player with elite underlying data and the basic attributes mixed in.

What have you got against assists mate?

[Andar]

What have you got against assists mate?

Nothing against assists. Lukaku himself would hit 5-10 assists in a season but it still didn't do much to make you ignore everything else that was wrong.

It's just that players of the ilk of Lukaku and Nunez should be handing you 20 league goals to compensate for how bad they are elsewhere. Assists are not even sufficient enough for what you have to deal with them in so many other facets.

[mullyred94]

Nothing against assists. Lukaku himself would hit 5-10 assists in a season but it still didn't do much to make you ignore everything else that was wrong.

It's just that players of the ilk of Lukaku and Nunez should be handing you 20 league goals to compensate for how bad they are elsewhere. Assists are not even sufficient enough for what you deal with them in so many other facets.

Lukaku can't press mate, if you don't think Nunez affects the game apart from actually goals then I don't know what to tell you.

[DelTrotter]

The thread still needs to stay open to discuss how much of a shocking footballer he is.

Who do you support?

[Knight]

The thread still needs to stay open to discuss how much of a shocking footballer he is.

Someone like him needs to back himself with actual goals. Not XG. Not shot production. Not even actual assists. Goals to counterbalance the shoddy player we get on the whole. Instead we are getting <15 league goals seasons out of him mixed with his ability not even trap a ball and sufficiently link up play to an acceptable standard.

At least Lukaku backed himself with 15+ league goal seasons to mask over his awful attributes elsewhere . He was one didn't let variance hit him negatively.

Nunez can't even do that. We have to put up with his poor traits and along with that watch him continuously aim for the keepers noggin, or failing that hand the crowd a match ball souvenir.

He needs to hit 20 league goals next season. That is the minimum you should be getting from someone so lacking in basic attributes. Otherwise we need to start sending feelers to the clubs managed by Mourinho, Conte and Simeone. They are all exactly the type who would adore his tireless runs and great shot production. I mean he will miss the majority of them, but they will still end up besotted with how much he would fit their blueprint.

Hopefully from there.... we can hit on a player with elite underlying data and the basic attributes mixed in. Not even asking for someone who is of the standard of Kane or Havertz. Just someone who is at least average in the basic attributes that are needed to look like an accomplished footballer.

Thanks for proving our (Dilks and I) point.

[Fiasco]

The thing is with Nunez you cant say he isn't a good finisher because some of the goals he's scored have been class

So is it all pressure? can the mental side of his game improve?

I think in a game like football though you see a lot of mad things happening and just because a player does something occasionally it doesn't mean that they're consistent or likely to repeat it. That is where the debate is at with Darwin. I mean I once watched Phil Jagielka rocket one in from all of 30 yards into the top corner to rescue a point for Everton in the derby at the Kop end. He had never done it before nor did he ever do it after. It wouldn't be fair or right to say something like 'Jagielka is more than capable of firing one in from range' because he done it once.

I understand the difference with a striker like Nunez, but the thinking is the same. Is he a good finisher, or has he scored a few goals via good finishes among the plethora of ugly missed chances? If he's through on goal now you just do not know if he's going to even hit the target, never mind score via a lovely finish. He's seemingly just as likely to blast it as hard as he can and hope for the best. I don't think 'good finishers' have that wild kind of roulette outcome when it comes to a chance. It isn't going to win you big trophies I'm afraid.

[spider-neil]

I think in a game like football though you see a lot of mad things happening and just because a player does something occasionally it doesn't mean that they're consistent or likely to repeat it. That is where the debate is at with Darwin. I mean I once watched Phil Jagielka rocket one in from all of 30 yards into the top corner to rescue a point for Everton in the derby at the Kop end. He had never done it before nor did he ever do it after. It wouldn't be fair or right to say something like 'Jagielka is more than capable of firing one in from range' because he done it once.

I understand the difference with a striker like Nunez, but the thinking is the same. Is he a good finisher, or has he scored a few goals via good finishes among the plethora of ugly missed chances? If he's through on goal now you just do not know if he's going to even hit the target, never mind score via a lovely finish. He's seemingly just as likely to blast it as hard as he can and hope for the best. I don't think 'good finishers' have that wild kind of roulette outcome when it comes to a chance. It isn't going to win you big trophies I'm afraid.

Someone said he doesn't have a cultured finish in him but he does I've seen it with my own eyes. The problem is he doesn't do it enough but I refuse to believe he can't be taught to be calmer in front of the goal especially for someone who generates so many chances.

However, I do think it was telling that Joyce and Ornstein probably two of the journos out there both said Nunez is a Klopp signing and not a committee signing. That to me sounds like they were briefed to absolve the data team and maybe they are willing to offload him for the right price.

[Knight]

Neurotic nitpicking about his finishing ability is strange given it doesn't make much difference. He's got 11 goals from an xg of 15.7 and 0.8 of that is accounted for by the penalty he missed so 11 non pen goals from a non penalty xg of 14.9. He's hit the woodwork an unprecedented number of times and I imagine most of us will admit natural variance/ luck comes into it to at least some extent on those. Then he's missed some good chances. But imagine his finishing is a bit better - he perhaps scores two/three more goals this season. Does that actually move the dial very much? It certainly wouldn't satisfy those in this thread demanding 20 league goals (whilst completely ignoring minutes played). Just focus on his underlying numbers and his overall production p90 (goals and assists) and quit torturing yourselves about whether he can improve or will improve or needs to be sold or whatever. You'll be happier. I promise.

[spider-neil]

Neurotic nitpicking about his finishing ability is strange given it doesn't make much difference. He's got 11 goals from an xg of 15.7 and 0.8 of that is accounted for by the penalty he missed so 11 non pen goals from a non penalty xg of 14.9. He's hit the woodwork an unprecedented number of times and I imagine most of us will admit natural variance/ luck comes into it to at least some extent on those. Then he's missed some good chances. But imagine his finishing is a bit better - he perhaps scores two/three more goals this season. Does that actually move the dial very much? It certainly wouldn't satisfy those in this thread demanding 20 league goals (whilst completely ignoring minutes played). Just focus on his underlying numbers and his overall production p90 (goals and assists) and quit torturing yourselves about whether he can improve or will improve or needs to be sold or whatever. You'll be happier. I promise.

It depends where that 2-3% comes.

Nunez had crucial misses in the FA Cup game with Manu, Manu away in the league, Atalanta at home, Everton away and so on. And this misses came at crucial periods, like scoring the opening goal.

[Knight]

It depends where that 2-3% comes.

Nunez had crucial misses in the FA Cup game with Manu, Manu away in the league, Atalanta at home, Everton away and so on. And this misses came at crucial periods, like scoring the opening goal.

Yeah, players miss chances. We could play the same game with Salah this season. Or Gapko. Or Diaz. Or pretty much any striker who's ever played the game. In terms of assessing individual games asking these micro questions are reasonable, although we've almost certainly be stung more by our inability to keep it tight at the back than we have by our inability to stick the ball in the net at the other end. The number of times we've gone behind early is terrifying and makes the attack's job much harder. And assessing missed chances and win is, when it comes to evaluating Nunez going forward, a waste of time.

[Kop Kings]

Yes, but Nunez misses more massive chances (most in Europe) and in general doesn't score enough. Do we really need to keep doing this again and again?

[Knight]

Yes, but Nunez misses more massive chances (most in Europe) and in general doesn't score enough. Do we really need to keep doing this again and again?

No. That was the whole point of my post. The 'but he misses chances' fact, is much less significant than posters on here are willing to process. If you stopped worrying about it you'd be happier. And you'd be closer to rightly assessing Nunez.

[JackWard33]

It depends where that 2-3% comes.

Nunez had crucial misses in the FA Cup game with Manu, Manu away in the league, Atalanta at home, Everton away and so on. And this misses came at crucial periods, like scoring the opening goal.

Players do not control which finishes go in and which dont

[Knight]

Players do not control which finishes go in and which dont

Oh you boys are gonna love this one.

[Mr Dilkington]

Messi chose to miss that one on one in the World cup final in 2014.

[Sheer Magnetism]

Neurotic nitpicking about his finishing ability is strange given it doesn't make much difference. He's got 11 goals from an xg of 15.7 and 0.8 of that is accounted for by the penalty he missed so 11 non pen goals from a non penalty xg of 14.9.

I'm largely keeping out of this thread because so much of it is ridiculous but I had to say: only Knight could somehow try to spin missing a penalty into a positive of some kind.

[mullyred94]

I'm largely keeping out of this thread because so much of it is ridiculous but I had to say: only Knight could somehow try to spin missing a penalty into a positive of some kind.

He literally just posted facts what are you on about 

[Mr Dilkington]

I'm largely keeping out of this thread because so much of it is ridiculous but I had to say: only Knight could somehow try to spin missing a penalty into a positive of some kind.

Nunez has missed one penalty in his career to Isak's 3.

Maybe Darwin can give poor Alex some lessons on composure over the summer.

[mullyred94]

Do people realise per 90 with non pen goals he averages more than Mo at the moment?

Nunez has missed one penalty in his career to Isak's 3.

Maybe Darwin can give poor Alex some lessons on composure over the summer.

Hasn't Mo missed 3-4 this season? 3 including Eypgt.

Missed 10 over his career 

[Sheer Magnetism]

He literally just posted facts what are you on about 

I don't think hitting a penalty off target is a mitigating factor in being way below your xG. Do you? Last time I looked, penalties were meant to be relatively easy to score.