Topic: Liverpool 1 - 1 Sunderland, (Suarez, Larsson) - Post Match

[Torpedo Tommy]

Well, first off he always goes on about how he watches the match from start to finish 12 times after every league game... only joking.

I’ve got at least 5/6 brilliant stories.

Story 1.
He told us that his cat got ran over and proceeded to heave itself home on it’s front legs only as it’s back end was flat to the floor. He heard it whining outside so he went to see what was happening and found the cat clinging on halfway up the wall trying to get into the back yard. Took the Cat to the vets and got it’s backend rebuilt for £250!! Bare in my mind a mate of mine’s dog had a hip replacement that cost roughly about 4 grand… not that the first half of the story was believable anyway.

Early 90's I had the back end of my Nova SR rebuilt after someone arse-ended me. Cost £450.

A cat is smaller than a Nova so....I'm thinking....maybe? Especially if he didn't use manufacturers parts.

[mybacklight]

I think overall we did fantastic, especially in the first half. We did tire and mistakes were made, I thought flanno did well and he will get more experienced over time. I would have started with kelly myself.

Most of all we have to wait until we gel, kenny still adjusting stuff to suit and find out the best way to play. He still not sure about his starting eleven. It will happen in time, not overnight. Some fans want to get a grip slagging players this early, saying we are shte etc.... Some guy next to me was just moaning about all the new players, not sure why like. cuz I thought they did well in my opinion.

Its going to take time! I enjoyed the game, apart from the result. We did ok, we have better times ahead so looking forward not back. Dalglish is just testing the water at the moment as he has so many players at his disposal. Once we have a settled 11 we will be fine. 

[Red Beret]

Having mulled things over, the only thing I would say about the starting line up is that I would have preferred Dirk to start in place of Henderson.  He should have taken the pen and he and Luis appeared to strike up a great understanding last season and could have combined well when Suarez was full of energy.

If you look at the players out there, it's virtually unrecognisable from last season.  Carroll and Suarez both from January; Adam, Downing and Henderson all summer signings; Enrique brought in just two DAYS ago; Flanagan only broke into the side last season.  I guess it will take time for them to click.

[subroc]

theres a lot for us to learn when chasing a game, you look how man utd turn the screw when they are behind and its relentless, you look at us yesterday and it was unorganised and disjointed with no tempo.

That disjointedness and lack of cohesion has always been there in our game for a decade - it is only in short patches when we have truly fired up our pass and move game. The way the Mancs play, their will to win is only part of the story - they generate so many chances through their pace and movement that they put a lot fo pressure on the other side. What frustrates me is that I want to see those patches to be the norm. I do not care so much about the result as I do about how we get there - because if our team play is good, then the results will come.

[bigbear]

Bollocks.

First half we easily did enough to win the game. The referee - who only has officiated two games this season made exactly the same 'mistake' (If you want to call it a mistake) twice - not sending off an obviously last man back player. We should have scored the penalty which would have finished Sunderland off. Your bollocks post - which it certainly fucking is - doesn't take into account the sheer quality of the finish for Sunderland. We looked a little tired second half and guess what? So did Sunderland. If you've watched football for more than 10 minutes then most early games of the season see players flag towards the second half - this is fair enough - get them at 100% and peaking now and they will run out of steam - the smaller clubs with smaller squads always suffer this fate when they looked burnt out come February. It would have been nice to have won and we did enough to win it - we created chances and opportunties but the sharpness wasn't quite there. Plus another thing you failed to note is we have a lot of players bedding in and gelling with each other. Again, unless you've only started watching footy this season - you would know that.

We did more than enough to win and didn't take our chances. No need whatsoever for some of the abject whining we've had in here.

We did enough in the first half Andy but we did nothing in the second half and looked way off the pace. I think the subs were poorly used as we didn't inject enough energy onto the pitch but also the amount of game time Poulsen (for example) has had when Adam could have got 90 minutes in him (for example) is a factor.

Pre-season friendlies are for fitness and it's clear that Sunderland's midfield 2 were fitter than ours as the game wore on.

[Twelfth Man]

you look at the brilliance of our performances v man city and fulham at the end of last season and there were 2 big players missing for me yesterday - spearing and kuyt.  they are not the most pleasing players on the eye but they have unbelievable workrate and create a great tempo to win possession back quickly - 2 many chiefs in our side yesterday and not enough indians imo.

the most worrying part of yesterday for me was how badly we lost our shape in the 2nd half, there was only 1 team gonna win that game 2nd half and that was sunderland on the counter attack.  theres a lot for us to learn when chasing a game, you look how man utd turn the screw when they are behind and its relentless, you look at us yesterday and it was unorganised and disjointed with no tempo.

I agree about Spearing being somewhat of a surprising revelation at the end of last season. Tidy, tenacious, did all the things Lucas does but with a little bit of added bite. When we lose shape, there needs to be someone on the pitch calling for the team to return to basics. retrieve the ball, keep possession, pass and move. Drill this into the team so that like United it becomes second nature. I didn't watch the game rather listened to it on the radio, in the second half it felt like Sunderland wrestled the initiative away from us with their greater desire and energy. Rather than fighting we sat back and allowed them to use a boxing analogy to pummel us.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

We did enough in the first half Andy but we did nothing in the second half and looked way off the pace. I think the subs were poorly used as we didn't inject enough energy onto the pitch but also the amount of game time Poulsen (for example) has had when Adam could have got 90 minutes in him (for example) is a factor.

Pre-season friendlies are for fitness and it's clear that Sunderland's midfield 2 were fitter than ours as the game wore on.

If you see it again, it was clear that they were tiring as well.

Switch everything round - what did Sunderland do after their goal?

[maqu006]

Positives:

- Tempo, rhythm and drive in the first half
- First half performance of Downing, Carroll and Adam
- Whole game performance of Enrique
- We are now dangerous in dead ball situations
- The shape of the team in the first half

Negatives:
- Lack of fitness of certain players (Suarez, Lucas understandable)
- very erratic passing in second half (Adam)
- Meireles seemed disinterested or unfit
- Flannagan lost confidence in the second half (start with Kelly against Arsenal)
- team completely lost shape in second half mainly due to lack of pressing by the three in the 4-2-3-1 formation that exposed Adam and Lucas repeatedly and did not allow us to regain any possession (Kuyt is not an aesthetically pleasing player but I'd play him
ahead of Henderson for now)
- Enrique played well as an individual but resorted to Newcastle-style hoofs in the second half (he will play more on the ground as he becomes part of the team)

In conclusion, I think we need to work on:
- general fitness (one week will help a lot)
- midfield shape (this is a completely new midfield so it will take some time to get it right)

I believe that there is great potential in this team. We're top four quality but we need to get things right as soon as possible as otherwise we might risk leaving it too late.

[bigbear]

If you see it again, it was clear that they were tiring as well.

Switch everything round - what did Sunderland do after their goal?

I felt they were still first to everything in midfield. It may have just been perspective as you sit there and fret but I do recall Cattermole going the full length on a counter attack in the last minute and ending up in our box.


Lucas and Adam just sat off them all half as though Hodgson was coaching the side, and that happens when you are shagged out. Spearing should definitely have come on early in the second half because it was coming.

[Red Bird]

If you see it again, it was clear that they were tiring as well.

Switch everything round - what did Sunderland do after their goal?

Thgey didn't hoof away possession 

You're right-- the game actually petered out-- could we have used our subs a bit more cleverly, though?

[John C]

you look at the brilliance of our performances v man city and fulham at the end of last season and there were 2 big players missing for me yesterday - spearing and kuyt.  they are not the most pleasing players on the eye but they have unbelievable workrate and create a great tempo to win possession back quickly - 2 many chiefs in our side yesterday and not enough indians imo.

I disagree entirely. Kuyt is not the cavalry, we didn't need to match them for work-rate. We just needed a tiny bit more creativity in the second half. Indeed the only reason why our work-rate may have faltered was because its the first day of the season.

[STORMTROOPER]

That disjointedness and lack of cohesion has always been there in our game for a decade - it is only in short patches when we have truly fired up our pass and move game. The way the Mancs play, their will to win is only part of the story - they generate so many chances through their pace and movement that they put a lot fo pressure on the other side. What frustrates me is that I want to see those patches to be the norm. I do not care so much about the result as I do about how we get there - because if our team play is good, then the results will come.

i agree with you, i've said it many times on here, ferguson has always understood the need to have pace, cutting edge, and penetration from wide in the final 3rd.  over his reign he has had sharpe, kanckelskis, giggs, blomquist, ronaldo, nani, valencia, young, as well as penetrative runners from deeper like tevez and rooney.

over that same period we have never understood the importance of this.  we are going in the right direction in buying downing and suarez but for me spending £16m on henderson instead of looking for another penetrative pacy wide player is a complete waste of money imo considering the amount of players at the club who could already play in hendersons position.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

I felt they were still first to everything in midfield. It may have just been perspective as you sit there and fret but I do recall Cattermole going the full length on a counter attack in the last minute and ending up in our box.


Lucas and Adam just sat off them all half as though Hodgson was coaching the side, and that happens when you are shagged out. Spearing should definitely have come on early in the second half because it was coming.

I agree that there are lessons to be learned, but for people to expect a whole new bunch of signings to immediately gel and immediately look like they have been together for 10 years is a bit much in my opinion. If you can't see the positives in the first half and the sheer ability we have waiting in the wings once they get used to each other then I don't know what to say. We did look a bit toothless at times in the second half - but I honestly can't remember a first game of the season where we didn't look a bit shagged out come the second half. It's the norm - I understand that people think it shouldn't be - but it is - Liverpool have always, always started slowly. Yesterday we had it on a plate to win the game and Luis made a bad mistakes with the penalty.

But I'd rather us at this stage of the season take that on the chin, accept we had the chance and didn't take it and move on.

I don't think that some people chucking their toys out of the plan is worthwhile.

I would be more worried if we looked like a bunch of strangers, created nothing and looked like we had a mountain to climb. It's very obvious that the training put in at Melwood is being very productive - some of our play was fantastic to see. We had pace, mobility and vision and any fitness concerns will be addressed as the season progresses.

I know some people like to just fucking moan, but personally I'm very, very happy with where we are at.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Thgey didn't hoof away possession 

You're right-- the game actually petered out-- could we have used our subs a bit more cleverly, though?

Perhaps, but Kenny is learning himself how to best deploy the troops. It will take time for everyone to understand how best they fit together.

[STORMTROOPER]

I disagree entirely. Kuyt is not the cavalry, we didn't need to match them for work-rate. We just needed a tiny bit more creativity in the second half. Indeed the only reason why our work-rate may have faltered was because its the first day of the season.

you always need to match for workrate in football - take a look at barca's workrate, its phenominal.  you equal an opponents workrate and thats when class will shine through.

you said it yourself in a way - good workrate 1st half - we were the better team

our workrate faltered 2nd half - sunderland were the better team

a team always needs to be balanced in the number of indians and chiefs it has in it.  2 much of one over the other and its not effective. take a look at real madrids galactico's.

[bigbear]

I agree that there are lessons to be learned, but for people to expect a whole new bunch of signings to immediately gel and immediately look like they have been together for 10 years is a bit much in my opinion. If you can't see the positives in the first half and the sheer ability we have waiting in the wings once they get used to each other then I don't know what to say. We did look a bit toothless at times in the second half - but I honestly can't remember a first game of the season where we didn't look a bit shagged out come the second half. It's the norm - I understand that people think it shouldn't be - but it is - Liverpool have always, always started slowly. Yesterday we had it on a plate to win the game and Luis made a bad mistakes with the penalty.

But I'd rather us at this stage of the season take that on the chin, accept we had the chance and didn't take it and move on.

I don't think that some people chucking their toys out of the plan is worthwhile.

I would be more worried if we looked like a bunch of strangers, created nothing and looked like we had a mountain to climb. It's very obvious that the training put in at Melwood is being very productive - some of our play was fantastic to see. We had pace, mobility and vision and any fitness concerns will be addressed as the season progresses.

I know some people like to just fucking moan, but personally I'm very, very happy with where we are at.

I think we all stood there at half time and said "that was good, 3-0, hope we're not talking about that penalty at the end".

So that was positive. No discussions.

It is though disappointing not to get over the line somehow when playing Sunderland at home first up and the lack of response tired or not was a concern. Once more we were looking for Gerrard who wasn't there.

[Smudgester]

Having mulled things over, the only thing I would say about the starting line up is that I would have preferred Dirk to start in place of Henderson.  He should have taken the pen and he and Luis appeared to strike up a great understanding last season and could have combined well when Suarez was full of energy.

Agree with that.

It would also be interesting to find out what sort of injury Kelly had that would keep out of the first XI but allow him to be on the bench.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

you always need to match for workrate in football - take a look at barca's workrate, its phenominal.  you equal an opponents workrate and thats when class will shine through.

you said it yourself in a way - good workrate 1st half - we were the better team

our workrate faltered 2nd half - sunderland were the better team

a team always needs to be balanced in the number of indians and chiefs it has in it.  2 much of one over the other and its not effective. take a look at real madrids galactico's.

If you think the fitness won't come then it's a massive concern.

If you think that we are nearly there then it's less of a concern. Fitness aside if we'd scored the pen then it would have been game over.

If the referee was a fit and decent person to perform the job of refereeing and didn't deserve to be sacked on the spot for the second major mistake of a 2 game season already then it would have been game over.

[bigbear]

Agree with that.

It would also be interesting to find out what sort of injury Kelly had that would keep out of the first XI but allow him to be on the bench.

Has it been said that Kelly had an injury ?

I thought it was just based on pre-season.

[John C]

you always need to match for workrate in football - take a look at barca's workrate, its phenominal.  you equal an opponents workrate and thats when class will shine through.

But this point is more valid than your first.....

i've said it many times on here, ferguson has always understood the need to have pace, cutting edge, and penetration from wide in the final 3rd.  over his reign he has had sharpe, kanckelskis, giggs, blomquist, ronaldo, nani, valencia, young, as well as penetrative runners from deeper like tevez and rooney.

[Smudgester]

Has it been said that Kelly had an injury ?

I thought it was just based on pre-season.

If he wasn't injured I see no reason why Flannagan started ahead of him ... Kelly played there plenty of times last season so why stop now ?

I also don't understand why Adam didn't take the penalty 

[Hinesy]

that's enough time for a kneejerk