Topic: Pep Guardiola at Bayern Munich

[HighSix]

It's madness that he's up for FIFA's manager of the year award though.

Toures Granddad? 

[Mr Dilkington]

People still talking ill informed shite about Guardiola I see.

[_00_deathscar]

Toures Granddad? 

Over what Allegri did last year? I'm sure there were other contenders too. No way should he be in the top 3 for what essentially amounted to winning just the Bundesliga.

[Xxavi]

Well he's not wrong is he? Bayern will win the Bundesliga 9 out of 10 times.

I mean they have 25 league titles.  The next two on the list have 9 and 8 respectively in Nuremberg and Borussia Dortmund.

So you really think Toure's agent's granddad would win the title at Bayern Munich? If not, then he is wrong.

I told before, some reputable coaches weren't winning Bundesliga every season. 9/10 times. What the fuck are you on now? Did they win it 9/10 in the past decade? The decade before? With Heynckess?

[Xxavi]

Over what Allegri did last year? I'm sure there were other contenders too. No way should he be in the top 3 for what essentially amounted to winning just the Bundesliga.

And what is Allegri's claim, if it comes down to trophies then? That Juventus didn't meet Barca in semis but Bayern did? Is that all the difference? The fact that they moved 1 step further is all his claim then?

Or the fact that Juventus won Serie A is now somehow more valuable than Bayern winning Bundesliga? Did you actually check Juventus' competition in Bundesliga? It has been absolutely non-existent, they won it 4 times in a row, and the imaginary competition of theirs is there only if Juve feck up. This season, they looked out of it, but now won 7-8 times in a row, and now are back close to the top.

PS I am not saying Pep should be over Allegri, but your posts seem to imply that they have done drastically different.

[Crosby Nick]

Did you actually check Juventus' competition in Bundesliga? It has been absolutely non-existent

Just checked. You are absolutely correct on this one.

[rowan_d]

And what is Allegri's claim, if it comes down to trophies then? That Juventus didn't meet Barca in semis but Bayern did? Is that all the difference? The fact that they moved 1 step further is all his claim then?

Or the fact that Juventus won Serie A is now somehow more valuable than Bayern winning Bundesliga? Did you actually check Juventus' competition in Bundesliga? It has been absolutely non-existent, they won it 4 times in a row, and the imaginary competition of theirs is there only if Juve feck up. This season, they looked out of it, but now won 7-8 times in a row, and now are back close to the top.

Juve won the Copa Italia as well

Even disregarding the Champions League, they had a better season than Bayern.

[Xxavi]

Juve wont he Copa Italia as well

And so does that warrant him to say

It's madness that he's up for FIFA's manager of the year award though.

Is it madness? He implies they have done drastically different. In my book, that's not a huge difference.

[rowan_d]

And so does that warrant him to say
Is it madness? He implies they have done drastically different. In my book, that's not a huge difference.

I think from a choice of 3 it gives him a far greater claim to be in that group than Pep. If its on calendar year though, Juve had a shocking August and September so I can see why Pep would get above him. And let's be honest, these * Of The Year things are always a pile of shite. How many times has the Team of the Year included a bunch of defenders who have had poor seasons for Madrid or Barca?

Enrique is the only shoe-in really imo

[Xxavi]

^Not that either Enrique or Pep case about manager of the year awards. I think both will skip the awards ceremony. It's a fairly useless exercise anyway. IFHSS selected Belgium coach for the coach of the year award, for example.

PS  And many Belgians don't seem very happy with their coach by the way.

[rafathegaffa83]

Leaving at the end of this season is probably a wise thing for Guardiola to do. This is a Bayern side that probably in the next 2-3 years is going to need a bit of an overhaul. They're at their peak in terms of performance and age. But the core of this side is aging. By the time next season starts, the following players would be 28+: Lewandowski (28 in August), Vidal (29 in May), Lahm (32), Alonso (34), Robben (32 in January), Ribery (33 in May), Boateng (28 in September), Rafinha (31 in September), Martinez (28 in September), Benatia (29 in April), Neuer (30 in March). Bayern have plenty of money, but replacing that level of quality will be neither cheap, nor quick. The last time Bayern produced homegrown players through their own ranks  who been able to make a significant contribution to the first-team was 5-6 years ago with Alaba and Müller, while who knows if Badstuber will ever recover to his former level.

[C]

what about Gotze, Douglas Costa, Coman, Alaba, Bernat, Hojberg, Gaudino, etc.. i'm fairly sure he isn't leaving because the players are 'old' Vidal, Martinez, Boateng, Neuer, Lewandowski are all approaching their prime if anything.

only really Ribery and Lahm that need to be looked at being replaced. Robben and Alonso will be quality next season undoubtedly

[Xxavi]

^True. He did a lot of rebuilding himself already. May not be intentional, but the post above gives an impression that Pep walked into a treble-winning team, played the same team for 3 years, and now that they are growing older, decided to leave, and not deal with the transition period.

Couldn't be more wrong. He came in, and since then, following left: Mandzukic, Kroos, Schweini, Ribery and Robben barely featured, i.e. consider them replaced, Martinez, barely featured in major chunks of the season, Dante, Luis Gustavo, and I may have missed some other players. But among there, at least 5-6 starting players, many of them were considered absolute leaders.

In the first half of the season, the following new players featured: Lewandowski, Thiago, Douglas Costa, Coman, Alonso, Vidal, Benatia etc. It wasn't like Ribery and Robben were missing when they were destroying teams right and left. There is no reason why the next coach should complain about anything squad related. Sure, he may wanna make some changes, but let's not make it sound as if Guardiola is leaving a team like the one Ferguson left at ManU when he retired.

[rafathegaffa83]

what about Gotze, Douglas Costa, Coman, Alaba, Bernat, Hojberg, Gaudino, etc.. i'm fairly sure he isn't leaving because the players are 'old' Vidal, Martinez, Boateng, Neuer, Lewandowski are all approaching their prime if anything.

only really Ribery and Lahm that need to be looked at being replaced. Robben and Alonso will be quality next season undoubtedly

That's not my point. I'm not saying it's why he is going. I'm saying be fair after this season is probably the most ideal time to leave, because in 2-3 years time most of their current key players will either be gone or need replacing. He's leaving Ancellotti a team at its peak, but that peak period for this set of players isn't going to last much longer. Gaudino and Hojberg have barely played for Bayern, so who knows how they will turn out. As for Götze, who knows if he'll stay past this summer. The buy option on Coman's loan is hardly cheap either, although he's a player who looks to have great future potential.

[Xxavi]

That's not my point. I'm not saying it's why he is going. I'm saying be fair after this season is probably the most ideal time to leave, because in 2-3 years time most of their current key players will either be gone or need replacing. He's leaving Ancellotti a team at its peak, but that peak period for this set of players isn't going to last much longer. Gaudino and Hojberg have barely played for Bayern, so who knows how they will turn out. As for Götze, who knows if he'll stay past this summer. The buy option on Coman's loan is hardly cheap either, although he's a player who looks to have great future potential.

But you could have brought the same argument when he took over. He was taking over a treble winning side, many of which then also won world cup 2014. After that, you can (perhaps should) expect a huge drop in motivation and hunger. He had injury prone players, some of them are aging. Replaced many of them seamlessly.

Schweini, for example, was considered integral. I don't notice much difference at all now that he left. Kroos, Ribery and Robben the same. Thiago, Douglas Costa and Coman have replaced them with no loss in quality. If the next manager comes, I am sure Bayern will provide him enough funds to change 1-2 positions, if he desires so. And that should be enough for 2-3 years anyway. I think Ancelotti signed a 3-year contract.

[YayaP]

But you could have brought the same argument when he took over. He was taking over a treble winning side, many of which then also won world cup 2014. After that, you can (perhaps should) expect a huge drop in motivation and hunger. He had injury prone players, some of them are aging. Replaced many of them seamlessly.

Schweini, for example, was considered integral. I don't notice much difference at all now that he left. Kroos, Ribery and Robben the same. Thiago, Douglas Costa and Coman have replaced them with no loss in quality. If the next manager comes, I am sure Bayern will provide him enough funds to change 1-2 positions, if he desires so. And that should be enough for 2-3 years anyway. I think Ancelotti signed a 3-year contract.

In fairness, there has been a drop off right? The season before he arrived they won the treble. They have not made the champions league final since he arrived. He's been fantastic in the league but to say they lost all these players and were replaced seemlessly is a bit disingenuous because they have not (yet) hit the heights that the previous crop of players did.

[Xxavi]

In fairness, there has been a drop off right? The season before he arrived they won the treble. They have not made the champions league final since he arrived. He's been fantastic in the league but to say they lost all these players and were replaced seemlessly is a bit disingenuous because they have not (yet) hit the heights that the previous crop of players did.

True, though, in fairness, no guarantee that Bayern would be winning CL every year or every 2-3 years even if Heynckess stayed. You need to be a little lucky to win the competition. Guardiola himself knows and admits that if he doesn't win CL, there will be some disappointed fans.

By judging Guardiola on CL title alone, some do a terrible mistake as football on the pitch under his reign has been great most often not. They have battered some top European opposition during his time there. Shouldn't be taken for granted, other "top" managers often go safety first in those matches. Also, a bit of perspective is necessary. Guardiola has won CL twice, there are only 2 managers who won 3 times, i.e. one more than that. He has plenty of time to repeat that, and may be even win it 4-5 times. But this perspective is lost, there are already some (must be haters) who are saying that ManCity are also an easy job. So yeah, he will walk over the teams in the league, and only CL at ManCity will impress them. It is as if ManCity are already playing super football week in week out, and as if they have been pissing the league with 20-30 point lead. ManCity have been very inconsistent over the years, despite brilliant squad, have been cack in Europe. But even if they start playing great football and winning titles, I am afraid Guardiola must win CL there, too, to shut the haters up

This is in part because of the high standard Guardiola has set for himself. The football people know his worth, despite not winning CL, Bayern board were desperate for him to stay.

[Xxavi]

By the way, I am not at all sure that Ancelotti will be winning Bundesliga as easily as described here I wonder what his reputation be on here if 1-2 years later, they are dumped out of CL in 1/4 finals and finish 2nd or 3rd in the league. Last season in La Liga, Real Madrid collected only 4 points vs other top 4 teams in the league. And that was the worst among all top clubs in Spain. They were destroyed by Atletico Madrid 4-0, lost to Sevilla, lost points to Valencia and Barca.

I won't be surprised if Borussia Dortmund won the league next season in Germany.

[rafathegaffa83]

I won't be surprised if Borussia Dortmund won the league next season in Germany.

Wouldn't surprise me. I definitely think Dortmund or Wolfsburg will end up winning it in the next 2-3 years.

[Xxavi]

Wouldn't surprise me. I definitely think Dortmund or Wolfsburg will end up winning it in the next 2-3 years.

This is the guy who lost the French league title to Montpellier as a PSG coach. Somehow, he gets an easy ride from the skeptical eyes of many. The skeptics of Guardiola say he has been managing top clubs. Ancelotti's career is littered with top clubs. Look at some of the squads he managed. Lost league title to Atletico Madrid, to Montpellier, in Italy, hasn't won many league titles at all.

Some Bayern fans are in for a rude awakening.

[Garstonite]

This is the guy who lost the French league title to Montpellier as a PSG coach. Somehow, he gets an easy ride from the skeptical eyes of many. The skeptics of Guardiola say he has been managing top clubs. Ancelotti's career is littered with top clubs. Look at some of the squads he managed. Lost league title to Atletico Madrid, to Montpellier, in Italy, hasn't won many league titles at all.

Some Bayern fans are in for a rude awakening.

Mate he has won the Champions League three times. Three.

[Coolie High]

This is the guy who lost the French league title to Montpellier as a PSG coach. Somehow, he gets an easy ride from the skeptical eyes of many. The skeptics of Guardiola say he has been managing top clubs. Ancelotti's career is littered with top clubs. Look at some of the squads he managed. Lost league title to Atletico Madrid, to Montpellier, in Italy, hasn't won many league titles at all.

Some Bayern fans are in for a rude awakening.

I very much doubt it, what exactly is a rude awakening anyways?

Bayern aren't dropping out the top two, and if Ancelotti is there for two years, their squad is already so good finances so powerful in comparison to their competition that you can almost guarantee they will win it in at least one of these years.

[thelinnen]

This is the guy who lost the French league title to Montpellier as a PSG coach. Somehow, he gets an easy ride from the skeptical eyes of many. The skeptics of Guardiola say he has been managing top clubs. Ancelotti's career is littered with top clubs. Look at some of the squads he managed. Lost league title to Atletico Madrid, to Montpellier, in Italy, hasn't won many league titles at all.

Some Bayern fans are in for a rude awakening.

You're right. Guardiola has done unimaginably well at Bayern and 3 time CL winner Carlo Ancelotti is a fool for thinking he could remotely compare to him.

In fact, every other team in the league that Pep is managing in should just forfeit the title at the start of the season, such is his godliness.

[Chris~]

I really don't get what's wrong with questioning Ancelotti's league record considering the clubs he's managed and who he's missed out to.

[dalarr]

I really don't get what's wrong with questioning Ancelotti's league record considering the clubs he's managed and who he's missed out to.

I agree. But as the other poster said, he's won the Champions League three times. That alone should put any doubt to rest.

[clinical]

Don't think guardiola has been truly tested yet.

I get some people love him in here. Probably from winding up mourinho or something. Which is probably enough of a reason to be honest  .

But for me he's always chosen the easy option.

If he wants to prove himself he should go to Arsenal imo.

[Sir Psycho Sexy]

It's not like he "chose" Barca though. He was only hired for a year originally I think, since Barca just had a pretty bad season. So he was more of a stopgap, until they could get someone else more proven. He was already in the club structure so obviously he was going to take the opportunity of managing the first team... Basically, Bayern has been the only club he's "chosen" so far unless I've gotten that wrong.

I don't think City is that easy of a job. They aren't by far and away stronger than any other team and he will be mainly judged on how far he can taken them in Europe

[DangerScouse]

Don't think guardiola has been truly tested yet.

I get some people love him in here. Probably from winding up mourinho or something. Which is probably enough of a reason to be honest  .

But for me he's always chosen the easy option.

If he wants to prove himself he should go to Arsenal imo.

Does this theory apply to players too or just managers?

[Garstonite]

Bayern were a better team under Heynckes so yeah, he has a LOT to prove in my opinion.

[Flaccido Dongingo]

People are poo pooing treble European Cup winning Ancelotti?, he's won way more that Guardiola, yes Guardiola may eventually surpass him, but come on, the deity like status people afford Guardiola is nauseating for fuck sake.

[007.lankyguy]

People are poo pooing treble European Cup winning Ancelotti?, he's won way more that Guardiola, yes Guardiola may eventually surpass him, but come on, the deity like status people afford Guardiola is nauseating for fuck sake.

Guardiola's actually won more than Ancelotti.

[YayaP]

True, though, in fairness, no guarantee that Bayern would be winning CL every year or every 2-3 years even if Heynckess stayed. You need to be a little lucky to win the competition. Guardiola himself knows and admits that if he doesn't win CL, there will be some disappointed fans.

By judging Guardiola on CL title alone, some do a terrible mistake as football on the pitch under his reign has been great most often not. They have battered some top European opposition during his time there. Shouldn't be taken for granted, other "top" managers often go safety first in those matches. Also, a bit of perspective is necessary. Guardiola has won CL twice, there are only 2 managers who won 3 times, i.e. one more than that. He has plenty of time to repeat that, and may be even win it 4-5 times. But this perspective is lost, there are already some (must be haters) who are saying that ManCity are also an easy job. So yeah, he will walk over the teams in the league, and only CL at ManCity will impress them. It is as if ManCity are already playing super football week in week out, and as if they have been pissing the league with 20-30 point lead. ManCity have been very inconsistent over the years, despite brilliant squad, have been cack in Europe. But even if they start playing great football and winning titles, I am afraid Guardiola must win CL there, too, to shut the haters up

This is in part because of the high standard Guardiola has set for himself. The football people know his worth, despite not winning CL, Bayern board were desperate for him to stay.

I agree with a lot of what you say here and if Pep pushes City on I think it will be a big accomplishment for him. They're in a place where even making the semis of the UCL is a big step forward. He will also revolutionize the way they train and play football I have no doubt.

In regards to Bayern, though, I hear what you're saying re the difficulty of winning of the champions league and the need for luck. However, in the five years before Pep arrived, they made the final three times (2010, 2013, 2014). After this season he will have been there three years. If he does not make the final this year (and this could all be a moot point because they look very strong), I think it's hard to make the case that he's been an unquestionable success at Munich. They're a club that doesn't just have the resources of a City but also prestige and a very sound club structure. He's not a failure, that's too strong. But he won't have been a rip-roaring success.

You're right about his setting the bar high with his own success. But that's just a facet of being a top, top manager.

[ManchesterBlue]

Don't think guardiola has been truly tested yet.

He fucking will be if he comes to City!

[Flinstone]

People are poo pooing treble European Cup winning Ancelotti?, he's won way more that Guardiola, yes Guardiola may eventually surpass him, but come on, the deity like status people afford Guardiola is nauseating for fuck sake.

Ancelotti is a phenomenal manager but his league record is highly questionable. To be honest, it's a bit of a joke.

Pep is a visionary who manages to win at the same time. He'll go down as one of the greatest.

[DangerScouse]

People thinking he wouldn't succeed in this league with the likes of Kompany, De Bruyne, Silva, Aguero and most probably a limitless spend are fucking bonkers. The other "top" teams will offer little threat.

[ElCapo]

This is the guy who lost the French league title to Montpellier as a PSG coach. Somehow, he gets an easy ride from the skeptical eyes of many. The skeptics of Guardiola say he has been managing top clubs. Ancelotti's career is littered with top clubs. Look at some of the squads he managed. Lost league title to Atletico Madrid, to Montpellier, in Italy, hasn't won many league titles at all.

Some Bayern fans are in for a rude awakening.

He'll do fine, he'll lose the Buli and pick up the odd CL.  I'll be OK with that

[Xxavi]

He'll do fine, he'll lose the Buli and pick up the odd CL.  I'll be OK with that

Even Bayern fans don't give a shit about Bundesliga at this point. And regarding him picking up CL, we will see about that. You do make it sound easy there.

[DangerScouse]

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/jan/12/pep-guardiola-apologises-premier-league-speculation?CMP=share_btn_tw

[plura]

So what is the general belief regarding a potential return to Barcelona for Mr. Pep? Well of course not for a while, but surely there is some lure from his side in finishing where he started?
On that note, lets say he goes to Manchester City, will he actually stay there for a longer time? Doubt he will be there much longer than for 5 seasons myself, if he now goes there. So what is next then? Italy? Spain's national team? Surely still too young for that, and 'finishing where he started' also at Barcelona?

[MagicHat]

Be a bit suprised if he returned to a job that exhausted him first time round and vaguely thought he had issues with the current chairman? It would be very intresting to see where he goes after Spain, Germany and England.