Author Topic: Man City - cheating bastards rumbled  (Read 2796071 times)

Offline 4pool

  • Mr. ( last name) Minister Of Truth - 1984 to 1984. The first to do a Moyesed. A pore grammarist.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 52,884
  • Liverpool: European Capital of Football 2005/2006
Just remember that Man City's case is being heard by a three judge panel.

HOW WILL A DECISION BE REACHED?

Deliberations will be made by a three-man panel of judges: one chosen by CAS, one chosen by UEFA and one chosen by City. They will have sweeping powers to either uphold the sentence, reduce it, throw it out or send the whole affair back to the CFCB for more clarification. A verdict is expected in the next three to four weeks.
Either we are a club of supporters or become a club of customers.

Online FiSh77

  • LoAves0. Is completely hooked on RAWK. Dead ringer for Amos Taylor. Burns, baby, burns.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 14,929
  • We all live in a Red and White Kop
Today's the day, tick tock yer cheating c*nts

Offline stoopid yank

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,114
  • Bird is the Word
Just remember that Man City's case is being heard by a three judge panel.

HOW WILL A DECISION BE REACHED?

Deliberations will be made by a three-man panel of judges: one chosen by CAS, one chosen by UEFA and one chosen by City. They will have sweeping powers to either uphold the sentence, reduce it, throw it out or send the whole affair back to the CFCB for more clarification. A verdict is expected in the next three to four weeks.
How the F#$% does that work?
I don't always listen to Black Sabbath, but when I do, so do the neighbors.

Offline Robbie-not-Fowler

  • Main Stander
  • ***
  • Posts: 62
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
If I were one of those in charge at UEFA, I'd most definitely want Manc Cheaty's proposed ban at least doubled, or preferably made of indeterminate length, following the total lack of respect they've shown to UEFA and by inference to their European Competition(s).

Online jillcwhomever

  • Finding Brian hard to swallow. Definitely not Paula Nancy MIllstone Jennings of 37 Wasp Villas, Greenbridge, Essex, GB10 1LL. Or maybe. Who knows.....Finds it hard to choose between Jürgen's wurst and Fat Sam's sausage.
  • Lead Matchday Commentator
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 77,845
  • "I'm surprised they didn't charge me rent"
The most important thing is the sentence has to be clear, if guilty the book needs throwing at them. We don't need any sort of fudge decision it has to be a deterrent.
"He's trying to get right away from football. I believe he went to Everton"

Offline Dave D

  • Dozy, Beaky, Mick and Tich
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 5,678
Man to be found guilty, the premier league launch their own investigation, also find them guilty and strip them of their titles. Absolute scenes when everyone realises we’re going for no.21 instead of no.19 this season.

Offline red_Mark1980

  • Wool ginger runner
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 13,554
  • J.F.T.97
Man to be found guilty, the premier league launch their own investigation, also find them guilty and strip them of their titles. Absolute scenes when everyone realises we’re going for no.21 instead of no.19 this season.

Personally I don't think that's likely, also it wouldn't be 21. It would be 20 as last season is not in the scope of the rule breaking. It would also give the other mancs another title. So, one of them.

On the banner, there are plenty of City fans who agree with us on here that it's frankly embarrassing and looks like it was designed by a four year old kid

Offline redgriffin73

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 32,575
  • Thanks for everything Rafa. Nunca Caminarás Solo.
How the fuck do they get to pick one of the judges? ;D
Rafa Benitez: "I'll always keep in my heart the good times I've had here, the strong and loyal support of the fans in the tough times and the love from Liverpool. I have no words to thank you enough for all these years and I am very proud to say that I was your manager. Thank you so much once more and always remember: You'll never walk alone."

Online dudleyred

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 10,332
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Uefa get to pick one as well so it just means it’s essentially a one person decision, the CAS judge

Online Crosby Nick

  • He was super funny. Used to do these super hilarious puns
  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 111,963
  • Poultry in Motion
How the fuck do they get to pick one of the judges? ;D

Who did they go for, Judge Curly Watts?

Offline redgriffin73

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 32,575
  • Thanks for everything Rafa. Nunca Caminarás Solo.
Who did they go for, Judge Curly Watts?

They probably just sent Phil Foden, no one knows what he looks like anyway.
Rafa Benitez: "I'll always keep in my heart the good times I've had here, the strong and loyal support of the fans in the tough times and the love from Liverpool. I have no words to thank you enough for all these years and I am very proud to say that I was your manager. Thank you so much once more and always remember: You'll never walk alone."

Offline Skeeve

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 15,797
Personally I don't think that's likely, also it wouldn't be 21. It would be 20 as last season is not in the scope of the rule breaking. It would also give the other mancs another title. So, one of them.

On the banner, there are plenty of City fans who agree with us on here that it's frankly embarrassing and looks like it was designed by a four year old kid

The very reasonable argument to make about last season (if they took the unlikely step and went down that route) would be that it was basically fruit of the poisonous tree, the benefit they gained from the cheating was what allowed them to also win that one too.

Also, once proven to be cheating, the onus should then be on them to prove that they have stopped before they could be considered for any trophies in the future too.

Offline red_Mark1980

  • Wool ginger runner
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 13,554
  • J.F.T.97
The very reasonable argument to make about last season (if they took the unlikely step and went down that route) would be that it was basically fruit of the poisonous tree, the benefit they gained from the cheating was what allowed them to also win that one too.

Also, once proven to be cheating, the onus should then be on them to prove that they have stopped before they could be considered for any trophies in the future too.

That's not going to happen. If anything is done I think a future points reduction is more likely

Offline I've been a good boy

  • "There are two ways of spreading light; to be the candle or the mirror that receives it." Loves a good set of open flaps. And a bowl of Coco Poops! No chance of getting a coffee in his house.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,215
Are they getting a decision today as well? I thought today was just when they're submitting the appeal which then takes months to resolve

Offline UntouchableLuis

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 12,729
Karen on BlueMoon thinks the Premier League low positive tests are being faked. I know I shouldn't go on there but it's good for a laugh sometimes. They also think once we win the title the gathering of our fans will be so much that the season will then have to be cancelled again.
"IT'S ENDED.....THE EUROPEAN CUP IS RETURNING TO ENGLAND AND TO ANFIELD."

Offline red_Mark1980

  • Wool ginger runner
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 13,554
  • J.F.T.97
Are they getting a decision today as well? I thought today was just when they're submitting the appeal which then takes months to resolve

Weeks I think is the estimate.

Karen on BlueMoon thinks the Premier League low positive tests are being faked. I know I shouldn't go on there but it's good for a laugh sometimes. They also think once we win the title the gathering of our fans will be so much that the season will then have to be cancelled again.

Does she have a view on the redesigned RAWK banner in her honour?

Offline Mark Walters

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,487
  • * * * * * *
Uefa get to pick one as well so it just means it’s essentially a one person decision, the CAS judge
I wonder how much they will have paid the CAS judge. Or do they just threaten him?
"Maybe in life it's impossible to give 100 per cent to your job. Okay, I'll accept 98 per cent" Rafa Benitez

Offline Sheer Magnetism

  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,063
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop

Online TepidT2O

  • Deffo NOT 9"! MUFC bedwetter. Grass. Folically-challenged, God-piece-wearing, monkey-rubber. Jizz aroma expert. Operating at the lower end of the distribution curve...has the hots for Alan. Bastard. Fearless in transfer windows with lack of convicti
  • Lead Matchday Commentator
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 94,344
  • Dejan Lovren fan club member #1
Karen on BlueMoon thinks the Premier League low positive tests are being faked. I know I shouldn't go on there but it's good for a laugh sometimes. They also think once we win the title the gathering of our fans will be so much that the season will then have to be cancelled again.


A bit odd, they’re consistent with the rest of the population
“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
W

Offline UntouchableLuis

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 12,729


A bit odd, they’re consistent with the rest of the population

They're being faked so Liverpool can win the league though. Every  club is in on it except for Man City who just happen to have 0 positive case.
"IT'S ENDED.....THE EUROPEAN CUP IS RETURNING TO ENGLAND AND TO ANFIELD."

Offline RedSince86

  • I blame Chris de Burgh
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 17,462
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Karen on BlueMoon thinks the Premier League low positive tests are being faked. I know I shouldn't go on there but it's good for a laugh sometimes. They also think once we win the title the gathering of our fans will be so much that the season will then have to be cancelled again.
Karen7 claimed her cousin had a friend who's a Ref who had worked at Stockley Park and she came out with whooper theories she had been told, she was repeatedly asked who the official was and said she was told to keep it anonymous.
"Since its purchase by the sheikh of Abu Dhabi, Manchester City has managed to cheat its way into the top echelon of European football and create a global, immensely profitable football empire, ignoring rules along the way. The club's newfound glory is rooted in lies."

Online redtel

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,298
  • Sir Roger-Scored first goal ever on MOTD.
The most important thing is the sentence has to be clear, if guilty the book needs throwing at them. We don't need any sort of fudge decision it has to be a deterrent.

As this is an appeal surely they uphold or overturn the verdict of UEFA?

They won't return a Guilty verdict.

Can they throw the book at City though. It cannot be more than a 2 year ban?

I will be surprised if they throw it back to UEFA for clarification, not heard of that decision by CAS. Has it actually been done?

What would be the process for any reduction in the 2 year ban from European Competition? Would CAS be able to do this?
We are definitely believers and we’ve won the fucking lot!

Offline Samie

  • The next Pharaoh of Egypt. The Ev of drafting! Rumoured to be the 7th, we may need that old magic back! The Timekeeper, ask him what time the action starts.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 66,681
It will be a fudge. No way will they try not half arse the decision.

Offline Medellin

  • Self-confessed daft meff.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 7,543
  • Sound
Support the team,Trust & Believe.

Offline AndyMuller

  • Has always wondered how to do it. Rice, Rice, Baby. Wants to have George Michael. Would batter A@A at karate.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 15,303
Bluemoon have hacked the RAOTL website, turned the website layout blue haha.

Offline sirKennyDaggers

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,259
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Bluemoon have hacked the RAOTL website, turned the website layout blue haha.

Yep,fair play to the normally humourless  c*****,Champions of the World still highlighted at the top of the page though.

Offline red_Mark1980

  • Wool ginger runner
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 13,554
  • J.F.T.97
I wonder how they are feeling about games by and large being played in the actual stadiums.

No doubt there's some mental gymnastics how it should be at neutral venues.

Of course when it comes to the European cup....

Offline Jshooters

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,776
  • Occasionally inspirational
I wonder how they are feeling about games by and large being played in the actual stadiums.

No doubt there's some mental gymnastics how it should be at neutral venues.

Of course when it comes to the European cup....

Delaney's written a new article about sportswashing in which they, obviously, feature heavily

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/sportswashing-newcastle-takeover-latest-man-city-ffp-a9557241.html

I refuse to visit blueloon anymore but I bet their media thread is practically frothing
Believer

Online jillcwhomever

  • Finding Brian hard to swallow. Definitely not Paula Nancy MIllstone Jennings of 37 Wasp Villas, Greenbridge, Essex, GB10 1LL. Or maybe. Who knows.....Finds it hard to choose between Jürgen's wurst and Fat Sam's sausage.
  • Lead Matchday Commentator
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 77,845
  • "I'm surprised they didn't charge me rent"
Delaney's written a new article about sportswashing in which they, obviously, feature heavily

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/sportswashing-newcastle-takeover-latest-man-city-ffp-a9557241.html

I refuse to visit blueloon anymore but I bet their media thread is practically frothing

Can you do it full please? I can't read it.
"He's trying to get right away from football. I believe he went to Everton"

Offline Dim Glas

  • Die Nullfünfer.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 39,409
  • Michael Sheen is the actual Prince of 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿
Delaney's written a new article about sportswashing in which they, obviously, feature heavily

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/sportswashing-newcastle-takeover-latest-man-city-ffp-a9557241.html

I refuse to visit blueloon anymore but I bet their media thread is practically frothing

Pertinent point in that article is:

“Abu Dhabi have an army of people in Manchester doing unpaid work for these regimes. That’s the power they have, in terms of people’s hearts and minds. That’s a sportswashing element – thousands going to bat for them. The reaction in Newcastle has been strong already. Imagine what it’s going to be like if they take over.

“It’s an instinctive response, and a tribal response, which is what they’re counting on in terms of building support.”


The way fans of these unsuccesful clubs flip and go to bat for these regimes is what makes it so effective of course. Disgusting really. 

Also, it is interesting to me that stuff about Manchester, how Abu Dhabi has built up such a portfolio in the city. It’s a bad look for Manchester United fans that they never ever seem to protest against these tyrants - and yeah we can joke ’their fans aren’t from Manchester, why would they care’. But we know that plenty are from there, yet here’s a disgusting human rights abusing state, buying up their beloved city, breaking affordable housing rules and regs, and barely a peep to be heard. Sure, you can say ‘what good would it do?’. Maybe not much, but it always saddens me how passive football fans are in England, bar one or two clubs.

Can you imagine if this was Everton not Man City (stop laughing at the back), and it was the city of Liverpool not Manchester being bought up like this - I’d like to hope people wouldn’t just be fine with it, and let it happen without barely a whimper.

Offline elsewhere

  • Turning Japanese, I think I'm turning Japanese, I really think I mean African, so...
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 31,756
City Hires Juan Manuel Lillo As Top Assistant

Manchester City have hired Juan Manuel Lillo as Pep Guardiola's top assistant.

Lillo replaces Mikel Arteta, who left City in December to manager Arsenal.

Lillo arrives from Chinese side Qingdao Huanghai having coached Guardiola during a spell in Mexico with Dorados Sinaloa in 2006.

Guadiola once called him the "best coach I ever had," while Lillo has previously described the City boss as "one of the most important people in my life, like a son to me."

"I am delighted to have joined Manchester City's coaching staff," Lillo said in a statement. "My relationship with Pep goes back many years and I am thrilled to be joining him as part of this exciting team.

---------------

so who the hell is he?

Offline Dim Glas

  • Die Nullfünfer.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 39,409
  • Michael Sheen is the actual Prince of 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿
Can you do it full please? I can't read it.

Sportswashing is not new – but has never been more insidious

It is a sentiment that is difficult to dismiss, but then that is the entire point.

“If I get to celebrate our first trophy in decades alongside my son, I won’t care who is in charge of us,” one Newcastle United supporter told The Independent on social media. “That’s the reality. It’ll be great.”

Many Manchester City supporters no doubt feel the same, especially about the 2011-12 period. Paris Saint-Germain would be just as grateful if they finally won the Champions League.

This is the emotional power of sport, and the more insidious effect of sportswashing. There’s not much mental space to consider a state’s human rights abuses amid the euphoria of victory. They are, in many senses, washed away.

It is precisely why sportswashing works so well, and why Saudi Arabia have been seeking to following the examples of Abu Dhabi and Qatar, as they attempt to purchase Newcastle.

The fundamental of the idea is tapping into the emotional connection sport fosters, which allow it to go to levels way beyond that.

The phrase is one that has become quite commonplace in the last few years, although isn’t without controversy. There is some debate about its exact definition, but virtually all academics and human rights bodies at least use the term.

“Amnesty use it more than we do, but we have used it,” Adam Coogle of Human Rights Watch says. Dr Kristian Coates Ulrichsen, fellow for the Middle East at Rice University in Houston, willingly refers to it.

Since the concept is at the core of Newcastle’s takeover and is set to become even more of a controversy, it is worth examining exactly what it is, how it works and – in truth – what to be attuned to as regards its effects.

It could even be argued that talking about the success of these clubs without talking about the owners’ aims, as becomes quite natural, is a form of sportswashing.

That emphasises how it goes so much deeper than the simplistic perception that it’s just about public relations. It’s really about integration, and obviously goes back much further than modern club takeovers.

You could even say it started in gladiatorial games with “bread and circuses”, and it isn’t a coincidence the notorious 1936 Nazi Olympics borrowed freely from such Roman pageantry, an event that preceded the 1978 World Cup and so many tours from Apartheid-era South African teams. These were all the most naked politicised uses of sport.

The excellent recent documentary ‘Stop the Tour’ tells the story of those South African times, and there’s a pointed line when an England rugby match is described at the time as “conferring respectability”. This is the common trend, as Peter Hain – the former MP for Neath who led the protests against Apartheid teams – tells The Independent.

“Apartheid politics infected the very essence of sport in South Africa in a way that really only the Nazis’ persecution of Jewish people has parallels but what was similar is the use of sport to confer blessing on an unjust and tyrannical political system, to project their own political brands and try and normalise it.”

That’s the primary problem to be mindful of. The use of sport allows these states to break down initial barriers that their more criticised policies might otherwise bring. The stadiums represent a gateway.

“It is about integration,” Dr Ulrichsen explains. “You see it with the UAE, where you have football stadiums named after Emirates and Etihad. So, even without thinking, people are saying ‘I’m going to the Emirates this week’. It’s that soft power, that normalisation of the UAE within ordinary conversations, where people don’t even think about the fact the fact they’re spreading branding for UAE.

“Look at City games. All the advertising hoardings, Abu Dhabi tourism, investment companies, all of the interlocking systems of support. That’s very powerful, especially because football is so popular.

“It’s part of the whole process of drawing the UAE or Qatar into our war of life, making it look like this benevolent accessory to something we’ve been enjoying for over a hundred years.”

It is also why ownership, as Ulrichsen puts it, is a significant “step-up”.

“It’s not just sponsorship. Nobody remembers that Chelsea’s first sponsorship was Gulf Air, of Bahrain. Even a tournament is a one-off. Ownership is a much greater thing. You actually work your way into the social fabric a club has with its supporters.

“And you draw people in, especially when the reserves they have can lead to great success.

“Abu Dhabi have an army of people in Manchester doing unpaid work for these regimes. That’s the power they have, in terms of people’s hearts and minds. That’s a sportswashing element – thousands going to bat for them. The reaction in Newcastle has been strong already. Imagine what it’s going to be like if they take over.

“It’s an instinctive response, and a tribal response, which is what they’re counting on in terms of building support.”

This is why the consortium attempting to buy Newcastle have already approached club legends about representative roles. It’s the easiest good will.

It’s also part of a more sophisticated strategy, that goes way beyond supporters.

The point, as Coogle argues, is to create an image that “these are good people to do business with”.

“It’s about trying to inculcate a certain image within the western public,” Coogle argues. “The whole game is to try and make foreign investment seem safer.

“They use other industries beside sports, but they ultimately need things from rich, relatively democratic, mostly western countries. They need arms. They need protection or support in international fora, or they need sources of legitimacy.

“It just makes it easier. It’s something you can point to on a government committee, right up to approving arms sales. ‘Look, they’re a good partner, they’re investing considerable money into our country.’”

This is nakedly visible in the city of Manchester itself. Ownership of the club has allowed Abu Dhabi to build a construction empire – and one that has attracted considerable controversy of its own.

The Sunday Times revealed in November how Sheikh Mansour’s private equity fund had amassed an estimated £330m-plus property portfolio, writing how the city’s “economy and political establishment had been the subject of a quiet takeover by Abu Dhabi”. Sir Richard Leese, the leader of the Labour-controlled council, also told the newspaper about how the subject had come up in initial takeover discussions.

“Early talks with ADUG were about the club but also about their commitment to strengthen their involvement in community work and to support the regeneration of east Manchester,” Leese told The Sunday Times.

The nature of that investment has been criticised because they fail to meet the council’s own policy objectives on affordable housing. “None of it is affordable,” was one line. A common quip has been that “regeneration stops at the Etihad Campus”.

Whatever about the financial figures in terms of net gain, a wider debate revolves around the net reaction.

An argument often made is that such takeovers actually bring awareness of human rights abuses that wouldn’t otherwise exist. That is true, and it’s certainly the case that more City and Newcastle supporters are more attuned – and often invested – in the debate than they would be.

The problem, as both Dr Ulrichsen and Coogle argue, is that it doesn’t matter. For one, the minimal criticism from journalists, academics and human rights groups tends to be greatly outweighed by wider effect – not to mention the many fans “going to bat”, as Dr Ulrichsen puts it. Secondly, and more importantly, it is proven to have no effect within the actual countries.

“The argument is often the extra scrutiny from sports washing makes them improve their human rights, but actually it doesn’t,” Dr Ulrichsen says. “Abu Dhabi 2020 is infinitely worse than Abu Dhabi 2008.”

Coogle concurs.

“It was the response to the Arab Spring [in 2011]. They’ve moved from limited basic rights to basically full-on no civil or political rights whatsoever, mass arrests of political opposition. Some really insidious practices have started coming to the fore: forced disappearances, arbitrary detentions, torture…”

“No one can claim ownership of Manchester City has had a moderating effect,” Dr Ulrichsen adds. “There’s no link whatsoever. And again, it’s something people are bringing up with Newcastle, that the additional scrutiny will accelerate a process of change in Saudi Arabia. Well, it won’t. You can look at Abu Dhabi to see that. The arguments people are making in support of the takeovers of Newcastle and Man City just don’t stack up when you look at the reality.”

This is another key problem. Far from encouraging change – as Gary Neville recently argued – owning football clubs essentially allows business as usual. It shows there’s no consequence to such human rights abuses in sporting terms. States are able to appropriate social institutions without doing much more than putting up the money.

“The theory of change in human rights activism is that you find any sort of leverage you can to encourage or pressure, and big powerful levers are these deals, these relationships they have with governments,” Coogle explains. “If you can get authorities to take a stand and really make a point that a practice is fundamentally unacceptable to us and we’re not going to do do x or y until it changes, it can have a powerful effect.”

The most powerful and extreme example of this was the sporting boycott of Apartheid South Africa. Hain has written a book on the topic with Andre Odendaal, titled Pitch Battles and to be released in October, and argues it is why the idea of “dialogue” doesn’t really work.

“It’s naive, to be blunt. The idea of a crown prince somehow changing discrimination or other forms of oppression is just naive.

“The boycott was immensely powerful, but that’s why I think it’s different. There is a chapter in our book where we discuss this, where sports apartheid was in literal terms a black and white issue. The area of sportswashing is much greyer, in terms of the globalisation of sport, the commercialisation… big sport is now on a completely different plane.”

It is within those shades of grey that these states are looking to take advantage of tribal colours.

“They know it’s the most direct way into people’s hearts,” Dr Ulrichsen says. “And if Newcastle do become successful, they will literally forgive the Saudis anything. And it’s a way of shifting the conversation. Some people may talk about human rights abuses, Jamal Khashoggi, the war in human, the biggest catastrophe in the world, but many others will talk about a benevolent Saudi, a Saudi bringing success to a deprived part of England.”

“It’s effective because people do have such close, strongly held feelings towards their teams,” Coogle says. “A lot of people will take that trade-off.

“None of this is fans’ fault, so they shouldn’t really be put in the position to answer for it, but at the same time if it creates the phenomenon where they begin defending Saudi Arabia’s human rights record, that’s really unfortunate. That’s the problem. Their team has become so bound up in geopolitics, it’s inseparable from the actions of a foreign government. This is one of the issues of states owning teams.”

It is just another illustration of the power of sportswashing – and why it usually works spectacularly.

Offline afc tukrish

  • How long for them sausages? Maggie May's Mythical Turkish Delight. RAWK's Expert Sausage Monster! Oakley Cannonier is fucking boss. Likes blowing his friends and undoing their nuts? Who nose?!
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 16,943
  • This looks like a nice spot...
    • Flat Back Four
City Hires Juan Manuel Lillo As Top Assistant

Manchester City have hired Juan Manuel Lillo as Pep Guardiola's top assistant.

Lillo replaces Mikel Arteta, who left City in December to manager Arsenal.

Lillo arrives from Chinese side Qingdao Huanghai having coached Guardiola during a spell in Mexico with Dorados Sinaloa in 2006.

Guadiola once called him the "best coach I ever had," while Lillo has previously described the City boss as "one of the most important people in my life, like a son to me."

"I am delighted to have joined Manchester City's coaching staff," Lillo said in a statement. "My relationship with Pep goes back many years and I am thrilled to be joining him as part of this exciting team.

---------------

so who the hell is he?

Basically more Pep than Pep, good section on him in Wilson's Inverting the Pyramid...

Question is, will he help or disappear further up Pep's theoretical backside?
Since haste quite Schorsch, but Liverpool are genuine fight pigs...

Online jillcwhomever

  • Finding Brian hard to swallow. Definitely not Paula Nancy MIllstone Jennings of 37 Wasp Villas, Greenbridge, Essex, GB10 1LL. Or maybe. Who knows.....Finds it hard to choose between Jürgen's wurst and Fat Sam's sausage.
  • Lead Matchday Commentator
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 77,845
  • "I'm surprised they didn't charge me rent"
Sportswashing is not new – but has never been more insidious

It is a sentiment that is difficult to dismiss, but then that is the entire point.

“If I get to celebrate our first trophy in decades alongside my son, I won’t care who is in charge of us,” one Newcastle United supporter told The Independent on social media. “That’s the reality. It’ll be great.”

Many Manchester City supporters no doubt feel the same, especially about the 2011-12 period. Paris Saint-Germain would be just as grateful if they finally won the Champions League.

This is the emotional power of sport, and the more insidious effect of sportswashing. There’s not much mental space to consider a state’s human rights abuses amid the euphoria of victory. They are, in many senses, washed away.

It is precisely why sportswashing works so well, and why Saudi Arabia have been seeking to following the examples of Abu Dhabi and Qatar, as they attempt to purchase Newcastle.

The fundamental of the idea is tapping into the emotional connection sport fosters, which allow it to go to levels way beyond that.

The phrase is one that has become quite commonplace in the last few years, although isn’t without controversy. There is some debate about its exact definition, but virtually all academics and human rights bodies at least use the term.

“Amnesty use it more than we do, but we have used it,” Adam Coogle of Human Rights Watch says. Dr Kristian Coates Ulrichsen, fellow for the Middle East at Rice University in Houston, willingly refers to it.

Since the concept is at the core of Newcastle’s takeover and is set to become even more of a controversy, it is worth examining exactly what it is, how it works and – in truth – what to be attuned to as regards its effects.

It could even be argued that talking about the success of these clubs without talking about the owners’ aims, as becomes quite natural, is a form of sportswashing.

That emphasises how it goes so much deeper than the simplistic perception that it’s just about public relations. It’s really about integration, and obviously goes back much further than modern club takeovers.

You could even say it started in gladiatorial games with “bread and circuses”, and it isn’t a coincidence the notorious 1936 Nazi Olympics borrowed freely from such Roman pageantry, an event that preceded the 1978 World Cup and so many tours from Apartheid-era South African teams. These were all the most naked politicised uses of sport.

The excellent recent documentary ‘Stop the Tour’ tells the story of those South African times, and there’s a pointed line when an England rugby match is described at the time as “conferring respectability”. This is the common trend, as Peter Hain – the former MP for Neath who led the protests against Apartheid teams – tells The Independent.

“Apartheid politics infected the very essence of sport in South Africa in a way that really only the Nazis’ persecution of Jewish people has parallels but what was similar is the use of sport to confer blessing on an unjust and tyrannical political system, to project their own political brands and try and normalise it.”

That’s the primary problem to be mindful of. The use of sport allows these states to break down initial barriers that their more criticised policies might otherwise bring. The stadiums represent a gateway.

“It is about integration,” Dr Ulrichsen explains. “You see it with the UAE, where you have football stadiums named after Emirates and Etihad. So, even without thinking, people are saying ‘I’m going to the Emirates this week’. It’s that soft power, that normalisation of the UAE within ordinary conversations, where people don’t even think about the fact the fact they’re spreading branding for UAE.

“Look at City games. All the advertising hoardings, Abu Dhabi tourism, investment companies, all of the interlocking systems of support. That’s very powerful, especially because football is so popular.

“It’s part of the whole process of drawing the UAE or Qatar into our war of life, making it look like this benevolent accessory to something we’ve been enjoying for over a hundred years.”

It is also why ownership, as Ulrichsen puts it, is a significant “step-up”.

“It’s not just sponsorship. Nobody remembers that Chelsea’s first sponsorship was Gulf Air, of Bahrain. Even a tournament is a one-off. Ownership is a much greater thing. You actually work your way into the social fabric a club has with its supporters.

“And you draw people in, especially when the reserves they have can lead to great success.

“Abu Dhabi have an army of people in Manchester doing unpaid work for these regimes. That’s the power they have, in terms of people’s hearts and minds. That’s a sportswashing element – thousands going to bat for them. The reaction in Newcastle has been strong already. Imagine what it’s going to be like if they take over.

“It’s an instinctive response, and a tribal response, which is what they’re counting on in terms of building support.”

This is why the consortium attempting to buy Newcastle have already approached club legends about representative roles. It’s the easiest good will.

It’s also part of a more sophisticated strategy, that goes way beyond supporters.

The point, as Coogle argues, is to create an image that “these are good people to do business with”.

“It’s about trying to inculcate a certain image within the western public,” Coogle argues. “The whole game is to try and make foreign investment seem safer.

“They use other industries beside sports, but they ultimately need things from rich, relatively democratic, mostly western countries. They need arms. They need protection or support in international fora, or they need sources of legitimacy.

“It just makes it easier. It’s something you can point to on a government committee, right up to approving arms sales. ‘Look, they’re a good partner, they’re investing considerable money into our country.’”

This is nakedly visible in the city of Manchester itself. Ownership of the club has allowed Abu Dhabi to build a construction empire – and one that has attracted considerable controversy of its own.

The Sunday Times revealed in November how Sheikh Mansour’s private equity fund had amassed an estimated £330m-plus property portfolio, writing how the city’s “economy and political establishment had been the subject of a quiet takeover by Abu Dhabi”. Sir Richard Leese, the leader of the Labour-controlled council, also told the newspaper about how the subject had come up in initial takeover discussions.

“Early talks with ADUG were about the club but also about their commitment to strengthen their involvement in community work and to support the regeneration of east Manchester,” Leese told The Sunday Times.

The nature of that investment has been criticised because they fail to meet the council’s own policy objectives on affordable housing. “None of it is affordable,” was one line. A common quip has been that “regeneration stops at the Etihad Campus”.

Whatever about the financial figures in terms of net gain, a wider debate revolves around the net reaction.

An argument often made is that such takeovers actually bring awareness of human rights abuses that wouldn’t otherwise exist. That is true, and it’s certainly the case that more City and Newcastle supporters are more attuned – and often invested – in the debate than they would be.

The problem, as both Dr Ulrichsen and Coogle argue, is that it doesn’t matter. For one, the minimal criticism from journalists, academics and human rights groups tends to be greatly outweighed by wider effect – not to mention the many fans “going to bat”, as Dr Ulrichsen puts it. Secondly, and more importantly, it is proven to have no effect within the actual countries.

“The argument is often the extra scrutiny from sports washing makes them improve their human rights, but actually it doesn’t,” Dr Ulrichsen says. “Abu Dhabi 2020 is infinitely worse than Abu Dhabi 2008.”

Coogle concurs.

“It was the response to the Arab Spring [in 2011]. They’ve moved from limited basic rights to basically full-on no civil or political rights whatsoever, mass arrests of political opposition. Some really insidious practices have started coming to the fore: forced disappearances, arbitrary detentions, torture…”

“No one can claim ownership of Manchester City has had a moderating effect,” Dr Ulrichsen adds. “There’s no link whatsoever. And again, it’s something people are bringing up with Newcastle, that the additional scrutiny will accelerate a process of change in Saudi Arabia. Well, it won’t. You can look at Abu Dhabi to see that. The arguments people are making in support of the takeovers of Newcastle and Man City just don’t stack up when you look at the reality.”

This is another key problem. Far from encouraging change – as Gary Neville recently argued – owning football clubs essentially allows business as usual. It shows there’s no consequence to such human rights abuses in sporting terms. States are able to appropriate social institutions without doing much more than putting up the money.

“The theory of change in human rights activism is that you find any sort of leverage you can to encourage or pressure, and big powerful levers are these deals, these relationships they have with governments,” Coogle explains. “If you can get authorities to take a stand and really make a point that a practice is fundamentally unacceptable to us and we’re not going to do do x or y until it changes, it can have a powerful effect.”

The most powerful and extreme example of this was the sporting boycott of Apartheid South Africa. Hain has written a book on the topic with Andre Odendaal, titled Pitch Battles and to be released in October, and argues it is why the idea of “dialogue” doesn’t really work.

“It’s naive, to be blunt. The idea of a crown prince somehow changing discrimination or other forms of oppression is just naive.

“The boycott was immensely powerful, but that’s why I think it’s different. There is a chapter in our book where we discuss this, where sports apartheid was in literal terms a black and white issue. The area of sportswashing is much greyer, in terms of the globalisation of sport, the commercialisation… big sport is now on a completely different plane.”

It is within those shades of grey that these states are looking to take advantage of tribal colours.

“They know it’s the most direct way into people’s hearts,” Dr Ulrichsen says. “And if Newcastle do become successful, they will literally forgive the Saudis anything. And it’s a way of shifting the conversation. Some people may talk about human rights abuses, Jamal Khashoggi, the war in human, the biggest catastrophe in the world, but many others will talk about a benevolent Saudi, a Saudi bringing success to a deprived part of England.”

“It’s effective because people do have such close, strongly held feelings towards their teams,” Coogle says. “A lot of people will take that trade-off.

“None of this is fans’ fault, so they shouldn’t really be put in the position to answer for it, but at the same time if it creates the phenomenon where they begin defending Saudi Arabia’s human rights record, that’s really unfortunate. That’s the problem. Their team has become so bound up in geopolitics, it’s inseparable from the actions of a foreign government. This is one of the issues of states owning teams.”

It is just another illustration of the power of sportswashing – and why it usually works spectacularly.

Thanks for that.  :)
"He's trying to get right away from football. I believe he went to Everton"

Offline Romford_Red

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 5,688
Pertinent point in that article is:

“Abu Dhabi have an army of people in Manchester doing unpaid work for these regimes. That’s the power they have, in terms of people’s hearts and minds. That’s a sportswashing element – thousands going to bat for them. The reaction in Newcastle has been strong already. Imagine what it’s going to be like if they take over.

“It’s an instinctive response, and a tribal response, which is what they’re counting on in terms of building support.”


The way fans of these unsuccesful clubs flip and go to bat for these regimes is what makes it so effective of course. Disgusting really. 

Also, it is interesting to me that stuff about Manchester, how Abu Dhabi has built up such a portfolio in the city. It’s a bad look for Manchester United fans that they never ever seem to protest against these tyrants - and yeah we can joke ’their fans aren’t from Manchester, why would they care’. But we know that plenty are from there, yet here’s a disgusting human rights abusing state, buying up their beloved city, breaking affordable housing rules and regs, and barely a peep to be heard. Sure, you can say ‘what good would it do?’. Maybe not much, but it always saddens me how passive football fans are in England, bar one or two clubs.

Can you imagine if this was Everton not Man City (stop laughing at the back), and it was the city of Liverpool not Manchester being bought up like this - I’d like to hope people wouldn’t just be fine with it, and let it happen without barely a whimper.


I felt that the most pertinent point was the criticisms of how the regeneration had not been done as the council wanted (affordable homes) but instead had been the opposite of that. Especially when City fans use the investment of their owners in the 'regeneration' of the area as a sign of their benevolence and good deeds.

Offline Lush is the best medicine...

  • FUCK THE POLICE - NWA
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 40,806
Do PSG fans go to the length that some city fans do to defend what happens in Qatar?

Offline 12C

  • aka 54F
  • Campaigns
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 13,693
  • “The Ribbons are Red”
I felt that the most pertinent point was the criticisms of how the regeneration had not been done as the council wanted (affordable homes) but instead had been the opposite of that. Especially when City fans use the investment of their owners in the 'regeneration' of the area as a sign of their benevolence and good deeds.

The regeneration takes the form of creating apartments which start at around the £200k Mark.
What has actually happened is a boom in buy to let. The tenements of tomorrow, with shady cladding and a shifting population which doesn’t put down roots to become a community.
Said it before, Manchester looks like something off Blade Runner. And the spices zombies wandering it’s concrete canyons add to the feeling
"I want to build a team that's invincible, so that they have to send a team from bloody Mars to beat us."

Offline Lush is the best medicine...

  • FUCK THE POLICE - NWA
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 40,806
The regeneration takes the form of creating apartments which start at around the £200k Mark.
What has actually happened is a boom in buy to let. The tenements of tomorrow, with shady cladding and a shifting population which doesn’t put down roots to become a community.
Said it before, Manchester looks like something off Blade Runner. And the spices zombies wandering it’s concrete canyons add to the feeling
not sure if it’s Abu Dhabi but they’re looking at building an indoor arena (a few thousand more than the main arena is now) around the etihad stadium, genuinely don’t see the point of doing that with a very well established one a few miles away in a much better location (which I think were looking to expand it), you could argue that a 7-10k one would be a good idea (a lot of the boxing at Manchester arena only uses the lower tier), something the size of the copper box in London (around 7k from memory) would be really good for boxing, basketball, smaller concerts but that’s a bit mad, even if I do like the look of it

https://www.eastlandsarena-consult.com/

Offline red_Mark1980

  • Wool ginger runner
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 13,554
  • J.F.T.97
It's been pointed out they have a thread on the European Shield mini league that may be in Lisbon. Asking about the format. Do away goals count as no-one is at home.

As well as a thread for...and I fucking kid you not "Post Covid 19" chants.

So unapologetically lacking in any kind of self awareness

Offline 12C

  • aka 54F
  • Campaigns
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 13,693
  • “The Ribbons are Red”
I think it is.
When they complete the take over of Manchestoh, they can hold public stonings and floggings there.
"I want to build a team that's invincible, so that they have to send a team from bloody Mars to beat us."