Author Topic: Anfield Road Redevelopment (Read 309442 times)

TepidT2O · « **Reply #400 on:** January 4, 2018, 07:35:06 pm »

Quote from: Priest0hcomeallyefaithful all 78 of you... on January 4, 2018, 07:20:45 pm

It will never happen unfortunately

The new Annie road stand?

I reckon it will...

Priest078 · « **Reply #401 on:** January 7, 2018, 07:24:58 pm »

Quote from: Tepid T₂O on January 4, 2018, 07:35:06 pm

The new Annie road stand?

I reckon it will...

I hope you’re right .

pjk66 · « **Reply #402 on:** January 13, 2018, 01:18:53 pm »

I see Carillion (main contractor who did main stand redevelopment) are in serious trouble. Could be wound up on Monday even.

Surprised a big firm like that can go under now having got the through the real tough times.

Will need to look for another builder if Annie road goes ahead

Alan_X · « **Reply #403 on:** January 13, 2018, 01:40:50 pm »

Quote from: pjk66 on January 13, 2018, 01:18:53 pm

I see Carillion (main contractor who did main stand redevelopment) are in serious trouble. Could be wound up on Monday even.

Surprised a big firm like that can go under now having got the through the real tough times.

Will need to look for another builder if Annie road goes ahead

Construction is more risky the bigger you get. Most construction is funded by the contractor and paid in arrears. A £100m building over a two year contract and paid by monthly valuations means that on average £4m of work will be done each month, a valuation done at the end of the month and another month or so before it's actually paid. Plus any materials that have to be bought in advance. So you need £10m cash in the bank to fund the job. Borrowing isn't that viable because of the relatively low margins.

In reality, the cash flow curve is not a straight line but increases as the value of cladding, finishes and fit out are weighted towards the end.

One badly judged tender and you're screwed.

pjk66 · « **Reply #404 on:** January 13, 2018, 02:56:27 pm »

Quote from: Alan_X on January 13, 2018, 01:40:50 pm

Construction is more risky the bigger you get. Most construction is funded by the contractor and paid in arrears. A £100m building over a two year contract and paid by monthly valuations means that on average £4m of work will be done each month, a valuation done at the end of the month and another month or so before it's actually paid. Plus any materials that have to be bought in advance. So you need £10m cash in the bank to fund the job. Borrowing isn't that viable because of the relatively low margins.

In reality, the cash flow curve is not a straight line but increases as the value of cladding, finishes and fit out are weighted towards the end.

One badly judged tender and you're screwed.

One bad tender shouldn’t put you out of business though really.

Sounds like there was bad management from the top and they must have been underpricing for a while.

A lot of subbies are going to be very worried now

Anfield89 · « **Reply #405 on:** January 13, 2018, 08:58:22 pm »

Are thy owed any money from us that would potentially be written off?

CraigDS · « **Reply #406 on:** January 13, 2018, 09:44:05 pm »

Quote from: Anfield89 on January 13, 2018, 08:58:22 pm

Are thy owed any money from us that would potentially be written off?

Doubtful, and it wouldn't be written off, it would still be due as the building has been delivered and the money would then go to paying off their debt.

Alan_X · « **Reply #407 on:** January 13, 2018, 10:02:47 pm »

Quote from: CraigDS on January 13, 2018, 09:44:05 pm

Doubtful, and it wouldn't be written off, it would still be due as the building has been delivered and the money would then go to paying off their debt.

There might have been some retention that would have been due a year after completion.

Peter McGurk · « **Reply #408 on:** January 18, 2018, 06:43:44 pm »

Quote from: Anfield89 on January 13, 2018, 08:58:22 pm

Are thy owed any money from us that would potentially be written off?

Not wishing to sound too sanctimonious but it might be better to think about the jobs lost than any money we might get back to put in the packets of over-paid football players.

Anfield89 · « **Reply #409 on:** January 18, 2018, 07:09:00 pm »

Quote from: Peter McGurk on January 18, 2018, 06:43:44 pm

Not wishing to sound too sanctimonious but it might be better to think about the jobs lost than any money we might get back to put in the packets of over-paid football players.

Shame for the workers, company deserves everything it gets.

CraigDS · « **Reply #410 on:** January 18, 2018, 07:15:24 pm »

Quote from: Anfield89 on January 18, 2018, 07:09:00 pm

Shame for the workers, company deserves everything it gets.

It’s not the company who would miss out if any money owed wasn’t paid up, it would be its creditors - namely those who have leant it money and those who have carried out work for them and invoiced them.

Motty · « **Reply #411 on:** January 18, 2018, 07:44:06 pm »

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Anfield89 · « **Reply #412 on:** January 18, 2018, 08:08:39 pm »

Quote from: CraigDS on January 18, 2018, 07:15:24 pm

It’s not the company who would miss out if any money owed wasn’t paid up, it would be its creditors - namely those who have leant it money and those who have carried out work for them and invoiced them.

Yeh I wasn’t just talking about the company goin into admin in the reply not my original question.

Peter McGurk · « **Reply #413 on:** January 18, 2018, 08:26:18 pm »

Quote from: CraigDS on January 18, 2018, 07:15:24 pm

It’s not the company who would miss out if any money owed wasn’t paid up, it would be its creditors - namely those who have leant it money and those who have carried out work for them and invoiced them.

And so not only Carillion’s employees but also the stressed supply chain’s employees

whiteboots · « **Reply #414 on:** January 21, 2018, 10:26:03 am »

Quote from: Anfield89 on January 13, 2018, 08:58:22 pm

Are thy owed any money from us that would potentially be written off?

I think that you will find that the Receivers will vigorously ensure all monies due are paid. And rightly so.

rscanderlech · « **Reply #415 on:** January 21, 2018, 06:10:33 pm »

With all of these teams that are moving into new stadiums (West Ham, Spurs, Chelsea, and teams like Atletico internationally) or discussing expansion of their existing ones (United), I feel like we missed a great chance in the last 25 years to make our previous financial advantage count...

Alan_X · « **Reply #416 on:** January 21, 2018, 06:24:28 pm »

Quote from: rscanderlech on January 21, 2018, 06:10:33 pm

With all of these teams that are moving into new stadiums (West Ham, Spurs, Chelsea, and teams like Atletico internationally) or discussing expansion of their existing ones (United), I feel like we missed a great chance in the last 25 years to make our previous financial advantage count...

We've just expanded the ground and have planning permission for the Anny Road. Of the other teams that have moved grounds only City have really improved but that's because they are owned by a country. Arsenal haven't won the league since they moved, West Ham's move has been a disaster, Sunderland and Boro were both relegated, Southampton., Leicester are doing ok now but they were relegated at the same time they moved to the King Power. Stoke & Swansea are both in or around the relegation zone...

It remains to be seen whether the expensive new stadiums for Chelsea and Spurs will actually impact the teams the way Arsenal were hit by the Emirates.

We have taken the right route if you want to be successful while increasing capacity. It's a shame it wasn't done earlier I agree but the imagination wasn't there before.

Adamski LFC · « **Reply #417 on:** January 21, 2018, 09:08:10 pm »

The drop in other sides moving to a new stadium was not something i had considered before and thanks to Alan X and his point on the redevelopment not exposing us to that, is hence valid.

I remember when 60k was so far away from LFC seating considerations it seemed almost dreamlike, yet here we are. This level, even greater, was only for Manure for a long time.

poopscoop · « **Reply #418 on:** January 22, 2018, 01:49:54 pm »

Quote from: Alan_X on January 21, 2018, 06:24:28 pm

We've just expanded the ground and have planning permission for the Anny Road. Of the other teams that have moved grounds only City have really improved but that's because they are owned by a country. Arsenal haven't won the league since they moved, West Ham's move has been a disaster, Sunderland and Boro were both relegated, Southampton., Leicester are doing ok now but they were relegated at the same time they moved to the King Power. Stoke & Swansea are both in or around the relegation zone...

It remains to be seen whether the expensive new stadiums for Chelsea and Spurs will actually impact the teams the way Arsenal were hit by the Emirates.

We have taken the right route if you want to be successful while increasing capacity. It's a shame it wasn't done earlier I agree but the imagination wasn't there before.

Agree with this 100%. I can't bear the soulless ACME stadium template like Pride Park, St Mary's, the Riverside, the Reebok. Arenal is a cut above that but none says anything about the clubs, the fans or their respective histories. I'd tear up the existing application and go full-on Skyscraper City at the Anny Road End. If Anderson can justify hand-outs for Everton to setup shop in an area that lacks the transport infrastucture to efficiently exfil fans on matchday, then why should we be capped at 60k.
Sweetspot, smeechpot - up the capacity and if there is excess like the 2k unsold seats per match, develop a strategy that allows pay on the gate for validated local youth.

cdav · « **Reply #419 on:** January 26, 2018, 05:07:35 pm »

Heard that the work is due to start before the end of the year on the Anny Road Stand from someone who has seen the current plans, fingers crossed its true

TepidT2O · « **Reply #420 on:** January 26, 2018, 05:38:41 pm »

Quote from: cdav on January 26, 2018, 05:07:35 pm

Heard that the work is due to start before the end of the year on the Anny Road Stand from someone who has seen the current plans, fingers crossed its true

Would probably be announced in the summer then I assume??

cdav · « **Reply #421 on:** January 26, 2018, 06:20:23 pm »

Quote from: Tepid T₂O on January 26, 2018, 05:38:41 pm

Would probably be announced in the summer then I assume??

You'd think it would be then at the latest. I wonder who will be the contractors with Carillion going under?

TepidT2O · « **Reply #422 on:** January 26, 2018, 09:18:34 pm »

So I’ve been looking at the Annie road plans...

Extending the lower tier back significantly, and then a new upper tier which would be much bigger.

How would you do this? I assume you extend back the lower tier, then close the upper tier rip it out and put a new one on ....

Meaning that you would lose no capacity at any point??

Peter McGurk · « **Reply #423 on:** January 26, 2018, 10:24:31 pm »

Quote from: Tepid T₂O on January 26, 2018, 09:18:34 pm

So I’ve been looking at the Annie road plans...

Extending the lower tier back significantly, and then a new upper tier which would be much bigger.

How would you do this? I assume you extend back the lower tier, then close the upper tier rip it out and put a new one on ....

Meaning that you would lose no capacity at any point??

Extend back. Rip the old one out. No need for another new upper tier.

As long as the upper tier can come down and the lower tier get fixed in a summer

The Lord Admiral · « **Reply #424 on:** January 27, 2018, 01:46:05 am »

Quote from: Tepid T₂O on January 26, 2018, 09:18:34 pm

So I’ve been looking at the Annie road plans...

Extending the lower tier back significantly, and then a new upper tier which would be much bigger.

How would you do this? I assume you extend back the lower tier, then close the upper tier rip it out and put a new one on ....

Meaning that you would lose no capacity at any point??

The ones that are public or some new ones?!

TepidT2O · « **Reply #425 on:** January 27, 2018, 08:37:28 am »

Quote from: The Lord Admiral on January 27, 2018, 01:46:05 am

The ones that are public or some new ones?!

The public ones that were released when the planning went through..

It’s a big increase in foot print... reminds you of just how small the Annie road is... there’s very little room in it..

CraigDS · « **Reply #426 on:** January 27, 2018, 09:03:07 am »

We only got outline planning didn't we? So a proper plan will need to be submitted and get passed before work can begin.

TepidT2O · « **Reply #427 on:** January 27, 2018, 10:02:41 am »

Quote from: CraigDS on January 27, 2018, 09:03:07 am

We only got outline planning didn't we? So a proper plan will need to be submitted and get passed before work can begin.

There’s a footprint for each level of the stand ...

Can’t imagine it will change much

CraigDS · « **Reply #428 on:** January 27, 2018, 10:03:43 am »

Quote from: Tepid T₂O on January 27, 2018, 10:02:41 am

There’s a footprint for each level of the stand ...

Can’t imagine it will change much

I’ve seen 62k mentioned, and if I remember rightly the outline plans only took us to 58,400ish, so something must have changed.

TepidT2O · « **Reply #429 on:** January 27, 2018, 10:05:09 am »

Quote from: CraigDS on January 27, 2018, 10:03:43 am

I’ve seen 62k mentioned, and if I remember rightly the outline plans only took us to 58,400ish, so something must have changed.

I won’t believe 62k until I see it...
Would be great though...

CraigDS · « **Reply #430 on:** January 27, 2018, 10:19:14 am »

Quote from: Tepid T₂O on January 27, 2018, 10:05:09 am

I won’t believe 62k until I see it...
Would be great though...

I've personally always said I think it'll end up being bigger, but as said will wait for proper details first!

Brian Blessed · « **Reply #431 on:** January 27, 2018, 04:27:42 pm »

Anny Rd is about 9,000 now, would it even be possible to nearly double that?

Alan_X · « **Reply #432 on:** January 27, 2018, 04:56:09 pm »

Quote from: CraigDS on January 27, 2018, 09:03:07 am

We only got outline planning didn't we? So a proper plan will need to be submitted and get passed before work can begin.

Unless they change the massing significantly it will go though without a problem. Materials and detailing will be in keeping with the main stand.

Eeyore · « **Reply #433 on:** January 27, 2018, 05:06:56 pm »

Quote from: Old Saint Nick Wants An Xmas 69! on January 27, 2018, 04:27:42 pm

Anny Rd is about 9,000 now, would it even be possible to nearly double that?

The mains stand holds 20.5k so a 17k Annie Rd would be huge. Bring it on.

Brian Blessed · « **Reply #434 on:** January 27, 2018, 05:18:12 pm »

Quote from: Al 555 on January 27, 2018, 05:06:56 pm

The mains stand holds 20.5k so a 17k Annie Rd would be huge. Bring it on.

Oh yes, I think it would be great. It just boggles my mind!

TepidT2O · « **Reply #435 on:** January 27, 2018, 06:31:26 pm »

The outline plans are here: http://northgate.liverpool.gov.uk/DocumentExplorer/Application/folderview.aspx?type=MVMPRD_DC_PLANAPP&key=898733

Look at all the phase two stuff..

The stand is as tall as the main stand. In other words it would be huge....the footprint of the stand is also much much bigger, no longer squeezed in just inside Annie road.. what a waste the last development of the Annie road was... that reallly was a missed opportunity..

Looks like it would have a plinth round it too... makes a lot of sense that... would be good to see them extend it round the Kenny stand and give that a freshen up at the same time..

Narwin Dunez · « **Reply #436 on:** January 27, 2018, 07:32:06 pm »

When can we expect any news? Are there any deadlines or is it just a case of wait and see?

TepidT2O · « **Reply #437 on:** January 27, 2018, 07:32:37 pm »

Quote from: Jake on January 27, 2018, 07:32:06 pm

When can we expect any news? Are there any deadlines or is it just a case of wait and see?

We have to do something by the summer of 2019

CraigDS · « **Reply #438 on:** January 27, 2018, 07:34:26 pm »

Not really the room to do a plinth around the Kenny.

Peter McGurk · « **Reply #439 on:** January 28, 2018, 10:56:46 am »

Quote from: Tepid T₂O on January 27, 2018, 07:32:37 pm

We have to do something by the summer of 2019

If you're talking about the planning consent running out, you're right; that does run out at some point but it wouldn't be that difficult to extend.