Author Topic: The Post Office Scandal  (Read 13466 times)

Offline John C

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The Post Office Scandal
« on: July 31, 2021, 06:11:00 pm »
This might not get a lot of traction but I think we should have a thread on the staggering injustice that some of those Subpostmasters went through.

It's absolutely horrendous what they experienced and how the Post Office dealt with it.

Some of the personal stories of suicide, people dying before being acquitted or the partners of people dying without seeing the accused acquitted.

It was discussed this week on the Bunker Podcast with the brilliant Alex Andreou.
https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9yc3MuYWNhc3QuY29tL3RoZS1idW5rZXI/episode/Yzc2NmM2NzQtYmIwMS00Mjk2LTg5MTktYmY5YTg5NmViNjE1?sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi82abe5I3yAhUYLxoKHTQYAyEQkfYCegQIARAF

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56718036





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Re: The Post Office Scandal
« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2021, 07:45:59 pm »
read about this a while back and it's surprising it's not been discussed about more. really awful, lives have been ruined here over a fucking piece of software.

that compensation figure seems low and doesn't make up for the years and lives lost.
YNWA.

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Re: The Post Office Scandal
« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2021, 08:12:05 pm »
I listened to the BBC sounds podcast on this.  Unbelievable arrogance by the Post Office.  Many heartbreaking stories. 
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Re: The Post Office Scandal
« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2021, 09:06:21 am »
The post office in the village I grew up was hit by this. The mother of the family that ran it went to jail, the lad in the family was in my school year and moved back to America (where they were originally from) shortly after it all. The village no longer has a post office, which is a shame for all the oldies that used to frequent it.

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Re: The Post Office Scandal
« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2021, 04:39:42 pm »
In the early 90s the business my wife worked at the time introduced a new computerised accounting system. Within weeks shortfalls were noticed and the police called in.

Fortunately nothing came of it, I think as much because the police that time didn't have any experience of computer fraud, as the company tweaking the software.

Re the PO - I can't get my head round the fact that someone didn't notice that prior to the introduction of the system there was a limited amount of fraud, post introduction fraud rocketed.

Did they ever check the system out?


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Re: The Post Office Scandal
« Reply #6 on: December 14, 2021, 09:41:08 pm »
In the early 90s the business my wife worked at the time introduced a new computerised accounting system. Within weeks shortfalls were noticed and the police called in.

Fortunately nothing came of it, I think as much because the police that time didn't have any experience of computer fraud, as the company tweaking the software.

Re the PO - I can't get my head round the fact that someone didn't notice that prior to the introduction of the system there was a limited amount of fraud, post introduction fraud rocketed.

Did they ever check the system out?

The taxpayer always bails out private companies.  Privatisation only works for a certain group of people, and it's not the majority of us.

Offline John C

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Re: The Post Office Scandal
« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2023, 10:16:48 pm »
£600k each compensation has been offered.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-66843548

This entire situation was a fucking scandal.
Imagine not just being accused of theft but getting locked up due t a faulty system.

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Re: The Post Office Scandal
« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2023, 10:33:48 pm »
£600k each compensation has been offered.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-66843548

This entire situation was a fucking scandal.
Imagine not just being accused of theft but getting locked up due t a faulty system.

Should be 7 figures compo.  Think there were a few suicides over this.  A not fit for purpose computer system destroying lives via forced bankruptcy, false fraudulent accusations, etc.

Offline John C

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Re: The Post Office Scandal
« Reply #9 on: January 5, 2024, 05:49:22 pm »
I've finished the 4 part series today. It was excellent.
But, with no exaggeration, watching the fight for the truth was heart breaking, it is fucking outrageous. Having to battle against liars in a corporate world is something we know about painfully.

Apparently at least another 50 victims of the system have come forward since the series was broadcasted.

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Offline Jiminy Cricket

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Re: The Post Office Scandal
« Reply #11 on: January 5, 2024, 06:17:19 pm »
I've finished the 4 part series today. It was excellent.
But, with no exaggeration, watching the fight for the truth was heart breaking, it is fucking outrageous. Having to battle against liars in a corporate world is something we know about painfully.

Apparently at least another 50 victims of the system have come forward since the series was broadcasted.
I started watching it with my Mum when I visited the UK over Christmas and the New Year, and have finished watching it online. It was very good, and quite shocking. I was only vaguely aware of what had occurred (having lived away form most of the scandal), so it was mostly a revelation to me. I just do not understand* why there have been no criminal prosecutions against the senior management of the PO - they surely knew that people were going to prison based on false evidence. There surely must have been perjury by some at the PO and Fujitsu.

* Well, I do understand why - the usual.
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Re: The Post Office Scandal
« Reply #12 on: January 6, 2024, 03:12:01 pm »
Petition to strip the ex-CEO of her MBE
https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/strip-paula-vennells-of-her-cbe

https://www.change.org/p/biztradegovuk-post-office-scandal-full-compensation-and-accountability


I've signed it and Mrs Stubbins as well. Its taken this tv drama to properly shine a light on this scandal for many people, myself included. I sat seething with anger at the injustice of it all and the sheer length of time it's taken to clear their names in the public domain, whilst the fight continues for right and proper compensation. Another case of corruption at the highest levels in the UK, looking forward to the Police's belated involvement and what comes of their investigations. This has been an occasion when a tv programme steps beyond entertainment. Everyone connected with it should be proud of what they've done in highlighting this travesty and they deserve all the plaudits coming their way.

Offline Son of Spion

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Re: The Post Office Scandal
« Reply #13 on: January 6, 2024, 05:49:32 pm »
I signed the petition a few day ago. I'm glad it's been posted here too, so it gets even more exposure and signatures.

I remember this case when it was first exposed. I knew it was bad, but didn't realise quite how bad. I actually felt like putting the TV screen through when the Vennells character was on. What an outrageous scumbag. Those poor people were treated so appallingly. Yet another example of how 'your' country and its establishment doesn't care for you and will close ranks to look after itself wherever and whenever it can. The courage shown by the victims here has been immense. Well done to the programme makers for putting the spotlight on this horrific scandal for all to see.

Almost 774,000 have signed this petition now. It was only on about 60,000 when I signed it, so it's really gathering pace, and rightly so.
« Last Edit: January 6, 2024, 05:52:26 pm by Son of Spion »
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Re: The Post Office Scandal
« Reply #14 on: January 6, 2024, 06:16:21 pm »
She needs to see jail time too in my opinion.
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Offline Jiminy Cricket

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Re: The Post Office Scandal
« Reply #15 on: January 6, 2024, 06:49:56 pm »
I signed the petition a few day ago. I'm glad it's been posted here too, so it gets even more exposure and signatures.

I remember this case when it was first exposed. I knew it was bad, but didn't realise quite how bad. I actually felt like putting the TV screen through when the Vennells character was on. What an outrageous scumbag. Those poor people were treated so appallingly. Yet another example of how 'your' country and its establishment doesn't care for you and will close ranks to look after itself wherever and whenever it can. The courage shown by the victims here has been immense. Well done to the programme makers for putting the spotlight on this horrific scandal for all to see.

Almost 774,000 have signed this petition now. It was only on about 60,000 when I signed it, so it's really gathering pace, and rightly so.
I liked the way the programme just causally showed her in her vicar get-up to state (without words) what an appalling, sanctimonious, hypocritical arsehole she is.
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Re: The Post Office Scandal
« Reply #16 on: January 6, 2024, 06:54:12 pm »
I liked the way the programme just causally showed her in her vicar get-up to state (without words) what an appalling, sanctimonious, hypocritical arsehole she is.
Yes. That scene said so much without actually saying anything.
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Offline Indomitable_Carp

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Re: The Post Office Scandal
« Reply #17 on: January 6, 2024, 07:01:12 pm »
It's an outrageous injustice that I only learned about earlier this year after hearing about it on a podcast. Can't even begin to imagine how difficult it has been for the victims.

It also seems crazy that something of this nature, scale and duration could happen without people being criminally liable (although we'd know all about that, wouldn't we?!). Compensation simply isn't enough.

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Re: The Post Office Scandal
« Reply #18 on: January 6, 2024, 07:07:42 pm »
It's an outrageous injustice that I only learned about earlier this year after hearing about it on a podcast. Can't even begin to imagine how difficult it has been for the victims.

It also seems crazy that something of this nature, scale and duration could happen without people being criminally liable (although we'd know all about that, wouldn't we?!). Compensation simply isn't enough.

Heard on the radio today that two people have been interviewed under caution by the MET and they are looking into perjury, perverting the course of justice and now fraud.
Jurgen, you made us laugh, you made us cry, you made Liverpool a bastion of invincibilty, now leave us on a high - YNWA

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Re: The Post Office Scandal
« Reply #19 on: January 7, 2024, 11:48:00 am »
read about this a while back and it's surprising it's not been discussed about more. really awful, lives have been ruined here over a fucking piece of software.

that compensation figure seems low and doesn't make up for the years and lives lost.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/SiB8GVMNJkE" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/SiB8GVMNJkE</a>

I can quite easily believe Paula Vennells has sat in a series of meetings discussing the costs of admitting fault and replacing the Horizon software system vs the expected costs of prosecuting the postmasters and potential compensation.

It wouldn't be put quite this bluntly and be dressed up in business and legal language, mixed in with phrases like "duty to Post Office employees" and "protecting a vital community service".

She should be in prison, and personally pay compensation.
« Last Edit: January 7, 2024, 11:50:03 am by Gili Gulu »
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Offline Jiminy Cricket

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Re: The Post Office Scandal
« Reply #20 on: January 7, 2024, 12:11:51 pm »
I can quite easily believe Paula Vennells has sat in a series of meetings discussing the costs of admitting fault and replacing the Horizon software system vs the expected costs of prosecuting the postmasters and potential compensation.

It wouldn't be put quite this bluntly and be dressed up in business and legal language, mixed in with phrases like "duty to Post Office employees" and "protecting a vital community service".

She should be in prison, and personally pay compensation.
There is apparent criminality involved here. There are clearly people who should be locked up over this, and they are not Sub-Post Masters.
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Offline Indomitable_Carp

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Re: The Post Office Scandal
« Reply #21 on: January 7, 2024, 01:33:01 pm »
Heard on the radio today that two people have been interviewed under caution by the MET and they are looking into perjury, perverting the course of justice and now fraud.

Well that's a start, at least!

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Re: The Post Office Scandal
« Reply #22 on: January 7, 2024, 01:37:15 pm »
Shocking story and the fight for justice is all too familiar. Will dig out the series, saw it had Toby Jones in it which is always a good sign.

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Re: The Post Office Scandal
« Reply #23 on: January 7, 2024, 01:53:27 pm »
It's almost inevitable that they found it easier to lie than admit wrongdoing. It's pathological with people like this. Even if it was just an honest error or mistake, their go to is deflect, blame, deny and obfuscate. They're incapable of empathy.
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Re: The Post Office Scandal
« Reply #24 on: January 7, 2024, 02:22:14 pm »

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Re: The Post Office Scandal
« Reply #25 on: January 7, 2024, 02:37:00 pm »
It's that Email from Paula Vennels asking if theres anyway the Post office online accounts can be accessed remotely that makes me wonder, she's asking this question in Jan 2015, she's asking this then because she has to face serious scrutiny before the HOC select committee, she's only asking this question because she's wants to save her own arse, she should have been asking this question when all these Post Master fraud cases started to escalate.
Ive no idea on the stats on Post master fraud trials before Horizon was introduced but it's a question that needs answering as it shows something very wrong was happening.
How many Post Masters were prosecuted before Horizon and how many were prosecuted after it was introduced, I bet the number after Horizon was introduced went off the scales compared to previous years.
I don't think the Post office bosses did any serious investigations when these prosecutions first arose, a lot of people were trying to cover their own arses when they realised they had dropped themselves right in the shit, the reaction was evil at all levels, just cover it up, lie and accuse the Postmasters, the lie telling them they are the only ones with a problem when they knew it was untrue,  that's conspiracy which makes the charges far more serious, lay the blame on the Postmasters to save their own arses even though they knew it destroyed lives, suicides. Jailed, Bankrupt. this conspiracy must have involved many people.
« Last Edit: January 7, 2024, 02:38:36 pm by oldfordie »
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Offline Son of Spion

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Re: The Post Office Scandal
« Reply #26 on: January 7, 2024, 02:44:56 pm »
The 38 Degrees petition to get Vennells' CBE removed has hit 906,328 signatures and is rising fast.

This story has really poked a hornet's nest with the British public. Well done all who have signed it.
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Re: The Post Office Scandal
« Reply #27 on: January 7, 2024, 03:29:42 pm »
Just added mine and shared the petition
Jurgen, you made us laugh, you made us cry, you made Liverpool a bastion of invincibilty, now leave us on a high - YNWA

Offline Son of Spion

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Re: The Post Office Scandal
« Reply #28 on: January 8, 2024, 01:01:30 am »
Just added mine and shared the petition
Nice one Rob.  :thumbup

I just had a look and it's passed one million signatures now.
The light that burns twice as bright, burns half as long, and you've burned so very, very brightly, Jürgen.

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Re: The Post Office Scandal
« Reply #29 on: January 8, 2024, 06:44:38 am »
Might affect the Lib Dems this.

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Re: The Post Office Scandal
« Reply #30 on: January 8, 2024, 10:33:38 am »
Clearly many hundreds of thousands of pounds were “ repaid” to the PO by the wrongly accused postmasters/mistresses. Where has this money gone. It has nearly all, if not all of the necessary elements to constitute blackmail. Ie an unjustified demand with menaces. Pay us £x or we will prosecute you, even though we have no evidence.

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Re: The Post Office Scandal
« Reply #31 on: January 8, 2024, 10:34:00 am »
Might affect the Lib Dems this.

Yep, Ed Davey was Post Office Minister during the coalition, & he's very quick to call for resignations, as soon as theirs any hint of scandal on public figures.

I did sign the petition the other day after it was posted on here.
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Re: The Post Office Scandal
« Reply #32 on: January 8, 2024, 11:18:34 am »
Missed the series.  What was it called?  I know it was on ITV.

I cannot stand coverups and injustices!  They totally enrage me!

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Re: The Post Office Scandal
« Reply #33 on: January 8, 2024, 11:21:19 am »
Missed the series.  What was it called?  I know it was on ITV.

I cannot stand coverups and injustices!  They totally enrage me!

Mr Bates vs The Post Office, it's up on ITVX if you have that.

https://www.itv.com/watch/mr-bates-vs-the-post-office/10a0469/10a0469a0001
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Re: The Post Office Scandal
« Reply #34 on: January 8, 2024, 11:30:01 am »

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Re: The Post Office Scandal
« Reply #35 on: January 8, 2024, 11:55:12 am »
Just added mine and shared the petition
Same here for both.

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Re: The Post Office Scandal
« Reply #36 on: January 8, 2024, 12:01:28 pm »
Yep, Ed Davey was Post Office Minister during the coalition, & he's very quick to call for resignations, as soon as theirs any hint of scandal on public figures.

I did sign the petition the other day after it was posted on here.

He wasnt directly involved but he didnt once do the work and wonder why so many people with a previously clean record were having these issues. He even has the nerve to say ministers right now should come out and sort it.

The Lib Dems do have this ability to make some real c*nts their leaders. Clegg, Farron, Davey. All c*nts.

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Re: The Post Office Scandal
« Reply #37 on: January 8, 2024, 12:10:41 pm »
He wasnt directly involved but he didnt once do the work and wonder why so many people with a previously clean record were having these issues. He even has the nerve to say ministers right now should come out and sort it.

The Lib Dems do have this ability to make some real c*nts their leaders. Clegg, Farron, Davey. All c*nts.
I think all the parties are implicated in some way or another and so there's not a lot of political capital to be made, which might save him.  I think Jo Swinson was involved as well.

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Re: The Post Office Scandal
« Reply #38 on: January 8, 2024, 12:11:28 pm »
He wasnt directly involved but he didnt once do the work and wonder why so many people with a previously clean record were having these issues. He even has the nerve to say ministers right now should come out and sort it.

The Lib Dems do have this ability to make some real c*nts their leaders. Clegg, Farron, Davey. All c*nts.

Maybe not directly involved, but Davey was Postal minister during the coalition, & has been accused by the victims of fogging them off, Davey defiantly has some questions to answer, particularly, like i say, he's prominent calling for public figures to resign at any hint of scandal.
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Re: The Post Office Scandal
« Reply #39 on: January 8, 2024, 12:51:08 pm »
My uncle was a postie during that period and reckons at least three post offices around the Wirral were all affected just from those he was chatty with at the time.  The level of gaslighting from those in power is astonishing - telling each postmaster that it can't be a systemic fault as they're the only ones experiencing it.  How many times can someone trot out that line before they can no longer look at themselves in the mirror?!