Author Topic: Thousands at Hong Kong protest as Occupy Central is launched  (Read 19369 times)

Offline classycarra

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Re: Thousands at Hong Kong protest as Occupy Central is launched
« Reply #120 on: November 21, 2019, 12:09:01 pm »
I really don't know how you could take zero killings by police in over 5 months of protests, which are getting increasingly violent, as anything other than a great achievement. You have to look at the big picture.

When you're looking in depth at one police shooting then no, I think you really don't. It's easy to consider this in depth and also the bigger picture.

That police office shot at least three bullets into a pair of unarmed protesters that he chose to engage up close. I'm not going to join you in celebrating him just because he didn't manage to kill anyone.

Offline Redcap

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Re: Thousands at Hong Kong protest as Occupy Central is launched
« Reply #121 on: November 22, 2019, 03:03:02 am »
When you're looking in depth at one police shooting then no, I think you really don't. It's easy to consider this in depth and also the bigger picture.

That police office shot at least three bullets into a pair of unarmed protesters that he chose to engage up close. I'm not going to join you in celebrating him just because he didn't manage to kill anyone.

Ah but I don't think I was celebrating that guy. And I don't see why you would be looking at that one guy in isolation of the broader outcome, which is that the HK police have managed to not kill anyone in 5 months of protests?

In the same way you wouldn't blame every protester for setting fire to a civilian, you wouldn't believe every police officer for two(?) guys firing live rounds?

Consider the counterfactual here. Where do you think HK would be now if the police had killed 5 or 10 people? The blowback would have been tremendous, and I imagine would have only made protests more violent, potentially leading to even more deaths. In this context, zero police killings so far is a laudable outcome. How many other police forces in the world would have necessarily done a better job in the same context?


Offline classycarra

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Re: Thousands at Hong Kong protest as Occupy Central is launched
« Reply #122 on: November 22, 2019, 11:56:38 am »
Ah but I don't think I was celebrating that guy. And I don't see why you would be looking at that one guy in isolation of the broader outcome, which is that the HK police have managed to not kill anyone in 5 months of protests?

In the same way you wouldn't blame every protester for setting fire to a civilian, you wouldn't believe every police officer for two(?) guys firing live rounds?

Consider the counterfactual here. Where do you think HK would be now if the police had killed 5 or 10 people? The blowback would have been tremendous, and I imagine would have only made protests more violent, potentially leading to even more deaths. In this context, zero police killings so far is a laudable outcome. How many other police forces in the world would have necessarily done a better job in the same context?



But you're assuming that I'm extrapolating my view of this police officer to represent all police? I thought I was clear that I'm looking in depth at this one incident, and it doesn't prevent me from seeing the bigger picture.

Yes it's a positive that there have been no recorded fatalities. I don't think that's necessarily the only measure that matters though, there have been many hospitalisations, there've been blindings, many accusations of police brutality against restrained citizens etc - great that they haven't killed anyone, but let's not go overboard in the other direction and extrapolate that to equal 'great job HK police'!

The actions and results of that particular officer with a gun are certainly not a great achievement. His actions led to a man being shot and the officer also tried (but failed) to shoot a second man. And for what? The group was already dispersing. And the same group of protesters were, according to recordings by the press present, dispersed following the unrest the shootings caused by using pepper spray. Doesn't that seem like the wrong order to engage unarmed protesters to you? Guns then pepper spray. Seems like this officer needlessly escalated violence to me, all for what - two arrests? Two for unlawful assembly and one for the shot guy trying to grab a weapon - a charge which wouldn't have happened if the policeman didn't go back in for more.

Reporters present also say the officer dragged the shot protester into a sitting position - this guy deserves no celebration for his ego causing more violence and then not only not aiding emergency first aid for the victim but also actively harming them by moving them in that way.  (source 5.13pm here https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/politics/article/3037135/shots-fired-hong-kong-anti-government-protesters-cause )

So yeah, good news that Hong Kong police haven't killed anyone yet. But let's not pretend that some of that is more by accident than design, including in this individual case we're looking at (but not extrapolating to all police).

EditL Missed answering your counterfactual. I'm less interested in going broad brush than you seemed to think I was - but for discussions sake I'd answer the UK. Predominantly because the way police are armed here is much more intelligent, effective and guided by evidence over fear.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2019, 11:58:42 am by Classycara »

Offline Redcap

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Re: Thousands at Hong Kong protest as Occupy Central is launched
« Reply #123 on: November 24, 2019, 10:38:51 pm »
I feel like we're talking across purposes because I don't see the point of analysing one incident to the nth degree. I condemn any police violence against peaceful protesters and this guy is clearly a poor example for his profession.

I don't know much about the UK police but the HK police had an extremely good reputation before all this. I think it's fair enough to say that they've been faced with fairly extraordinary circumstances.

Meanwhile pro democracy groups have won a stunning victory in the local elections. Hopefully this will give them some leverage to negotiate a better outcome.

Offline classycarra

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Re: Thousands at Hong Kong protest as Occupy Central is launched
« Reply #124 on: November 25, 2019, 11:01:54 am »
I feel like we're talking across purposes because I don't see the point of analysing one incident to the nth degree. I condemn any police violence against peaceful protesters and this guy is clearly a poor example for his profession.

I don't know much about the UK police but the HK police had an extremely good reputation before all this. I think it's fair enough to say that they've been faced with fairly extraordinary circumstances.
In that case you're right, we do agree. I was just cautious as earlier posters praised the officer and I think that's a step too far. By all means comment on some of the relative positives, in the difficult circumstances they've faced.

Meanwhile pro democracy groups have won a stunning victory in the local elections. Hopefully this will give them some leverage to negotiate a better outcome.

It's over double the number of voters in 2015, which is amazing. Great to see such engagement in democracy in a time where faith on all sides is at such a low, and hopefully it can bring the Chief Executive back to the table with a little more humility.

Without wanting to over-extrapolate too early, the huge losses by pro-beijing politicians feels like it puts paid to Jova's suggestion on the previous page that "this has nothing to do with China".

Offline Kashinoda

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Re: Thousands at Hong Kong protest as Occupy Central is launched
« Reply #125 on: November 25, 2019, 11:32:30 am »
I feel like we're talking across purposes because I don't see the point of analysing one incident to the nth degree. I condemn any police violence against peaceful protesters and this guy is clearly a poor example for his profession.

I don't know much about the UK police but the HK police had an extremely good reputation before all this. I think it's fair enough to say that they've been faced with fairly extraordinary circumstances.

Meanwhile pro democracy groups have won a stunning victory in the local elections. Hopefully this will give them some leverage to negotiate a better outcome.

This is a little bit off.

Hong Kong police force has a huge history of corruption. By the turn of the millennium they managed to turn things around and become well respected.

However since the turn of the decade they've been sliding, not just with the protest movement either.
:D

Offline classycarra

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Re: Thousands at Hong Kong protest as Occupy Central is launched
« Reply #126 on: November 25, 2019, 11:44:45 am »
This is a little bit off.

Hong Kong police force has a huge history of corruption. By the turn of the millennium they managed to turn things around and become well respected.

However since the turn of the decade they've been sliding, not just with the protest movement either.

My only notable experience with them, outside of just their usual presence, was earlier this year (before the protests). Near Wan Chai a car had come to a stop part way over the zebra crossing. It was fine, it's something I probably see when in London every single day.

Suddenly me and my friends hear the loudest shout from a police officer about the car having stopped over the line. After hearing the shout the car (with noone crossing) edges over the zebra crossing (trying to do as told) however there's immediately another red light, and now all of the ground is covered in a yellow-lined box excluding any car from waiting there. 

So after the shout made things worse from a traffic perspective, one of the starts running over alongside the petrified looking drivers window with gun raised. Proceeds to aggressively shout at her as if he's experienced road-rage and she's just cut him up.

Then he prioritises his macho bullshit over what he had originally made appear was something vitally important, by shouting at her for ages while holding a weapon. Does nothing to get the car moved out the way safely, and actually causes traffic issues when there none before. All the while number 2 cop close to me and my friends and cop car just angrily shouting and waving at her.

They were ridiculously aggressive and disproportional. And they were traffic cops. They did not look like the kind of police I would want armed here in the UK.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2019, 11:46:22 am by Classycara »

Offline Buggy Eyes Alfredo

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Re: Thousands at Hong Kong protest as Occupy Central is launched
« Reply #127 on: May 13, 2020, 09:24:01 am »

Hadn't realised Lam was using as extreme rhetoric as this part:

She also accused activists of using the extradition bill as a cover for their real goal, which was to "destroy Hong Kong".

And while the police's cowardice, contempt for protest, and encouraging/appeasing of triad thugs, was clear I had no idea the public face of the police was so childish. Thanks for sharing those pictures.

Hard to see next steps, because the protests aren't stopping and there is no sign of the police being reigned in. If there was a functioning international diplomatic community right now, I think that China would have more quickly relented again after the suspension of the bill and withdrawn it. They were clearly rattled.

Sustained economic harm during protests has probably got to remain the goal.


Hong Kong leader Carrie Lam pushes pro-China agenda, risking Trump’s wrath

Carrie Lam, Hong Kong's chief executive, speaks during a news conference on Tuesday. A year after protests erupted in the city, Lam is again pushing ahead with politically divisive policies — and she’s no longer expressing concern about the fallout.


Through months of sometimes violent pro-democracy protests last year, Hong Kong leader Carrie Lam often became emotional when confronted with accusations that she sold out the former British colony to China.

In appeals to the public, she talked about her personal sacrifices for Hong Kong and called for rebuilding harmony. She took the blame for the “entire unrest” that followed her decision to propose legislation that would’ve allowed extraditions to the mainland, and pledged to listen more before pushing unpopular measures.

Now, almost a year later, Lam is again pushing ahead with politically divisive policies — and she’s no longer expressing concern about the fallout. At a news briefing Tuesday ahead of a meeting of her advisory Executive Council, she said a controversial bill making it illegal to disrespect China’s national anthem would get priority in the city’s legislature.

“I’m not afraid of other’s criticism or smearing,” Lam said. She also said it was necessary for school curriculum reforms that would foster a “national identity.”


Lam’s defiance matches a more aggressive approach by her bosses in Beijing to rein in a pro-democracy camp that mounted its biggest pushback against Chinese rule since Britain returned the city in 1997. The tactics have included renewed clampdowns on protesters, who are starting to become active again after the COVID-19 outbreak prompted the masses to stay indoors.

“The overall impression I have is that Carrie Lam and her team have given up all pretense that they’re in control, and all pretense that they are helping Hong Kong defend ‘one country, two systems,’” said Anson Chan, the city’s former No. 2 official during the transition from British to Chinese rule. “In the middle of the coronavirus pandemic, you’d think the government would be refraining from things that could inflame tensions.”

On Wednesday, Lam’s birthday, there were calls to “celebrate” the occasion with pro-democracy rallies in more than a dozen shopping malls across Hong Kong in the afternoon and evening.

The potential for more political unrest also risks further damage to Hong Kong’s economy, which is already mired in a deep recession due to last year’s protests and the pandemic. And things could get worse: U.S. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo delayed an upcoming report on Hong Kong’s autonomy, which is the basis for special trade privileges that have long helped cement the city’s status as a premier financial center.

Under the U.S.-Hong Kong Policy Act of 1992, Washington agreed to treat Hong Kong as fully autonomous for trade and economic matters even after China took control. That means Hong Kong is exempt from Trump’s punitive tariffs on China and enjoys U.S. support for its participation in international bodies like the World Trade Organization.

Felix Chung, who represents the textile and garments industries as a pro-establishment member of Hong Kong’s legislature, didn’t see the national anthem law as particularly controversial and thought Lam would avoid doing anything in the next few months that would provoke the U.S. But still, he said, the recent developments made him worry “a little bit” that the city would lose the U.S. privileges.

“This is part of the key for Hong Kong,” Chung said. “So without it, Hong Kong is just very similar to the other cities in China, and we’re not competitive at all.”

Lam and the pro-Beijing bloc in Hong Kong appear to have one eye on elections for the Legislative Council, which are scheduled for Sept. 6. Two of her predecessors last week formed a pro-establishment group called the “Hong Kong Coalition” to influence public opinion that included some of the city’s wealthiest men.

At the same time, authorities have continued to arrest pro-democracy activists under rules that restrict gatherings to only eight people, including hundreds on Sunday — the most detained in a single day since last year’s protests fizzled out. Lam brushed off accusations that police were targeting demonstrators while ignoring packed bars downtown, saying she would look into any complaints.


China’s more assertive role came after President Xi Jinping in February appointed a former close aide, Xia Baolong, to oversee the city’s affairs from Beijing. Since then, China’s top agencies responsible for the city — the Hong Kong and Macau Affairs Office and the Liaison Office — have insisted they’re not covered by legal provisions against Beijing’s interference in local affairs, blasting opposition lawmakers for delaying tactics.

Both Chinese authorities and the local government remain deeply unpopular and the opposition won an unprecedented 85 percent of seats in local elections in November. Although a relatively successful effort at containing coronavirus infections has helped lift Lam’s approval rating from the single digits, only 18 percent surveyed by the Hong Kong Public Opinion Research Institute Survey last month expressed confidence in her leadership.

Democracy activists see Lam’s move to push the national anthem law as a potential precursor to bringing in national security legislation, which sparked a previous round of street protests in 2003. Prior statements from pro-establishment politicians about Hong Kong students not being sufficiently patriotic have also fueled concerns among activists that the government might revamp the city’s school curriculum to be more pro-China — another proposal previously shelved after mass rallies.

“It’s time for comprehensive review” on whether the curriculum can give students “the ability to know right from wrong, to become responsible citizens, an understanding of national identity and having a global view,” Lam said Tuesday.

In an interview with in the pro-Beijing Ta Kung Pao newspaper published Monday, Lam said the government and schools needed to be a gatekeeper because there were people who deliberately spread falsehoods. “Education cannot be left unguarded, it must be tackled if something went wrong,” she was quoted as saying.

Emily Lau, a former chairwoman for the opposition Democratic Party, said the U.S. could help most by targeting people who are guilty of perpetuating human-rights violations in Hong Kong rather than taking away the city’s special trading and customs status, which “would be game over” for its position as a financial center. Still, she worried that Lam’s actions could revive the unrest that plagued the city last year.

“These laws are all very sensitive and very controversial,” Lau said. “But you negotiate and talk to people to see if there are any compromises. They just want to ram it down everyone’s throat. And that’s very stupid, and very dangerous.”


https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2020/05/13/asia-pacific/hong-kong-leader-pushes-pro-china-agenda/#.XrukySBlA1I

Offline surfer. Fuck you generator.

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Offline TSC

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Re: Thousands at Hong Kong protest as Occupy Central is launched
« Reply #129 on: May 22, 2020, 01:51:55 pm »
Hong Kong CEO Carrie-lam giving statement now advising citizens should take a positive view of Chinese legislation. UK govt confirms it’s committed to maintaining autonomy of Hong Kong

Offline Kashinoda

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Re: Thousands at Hong Kong protest as Occupy Central is launched
« Reply #130 on: May 25, 2020, 10:52:10 am »
Hong Kong CEO Carrie-lam giving statement now advising citizens should take a positive view of Chinese legislation. UK govt confirms it’s committed to maintaining autonomy of Hong Kong

Laughable.
:D

Offline skipper757

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Re: Thousands at Hong Kong protest as Occupy Central is launched
« Reply #131 on: May 27, 2020, 11:41:01 pm »
Things are escalating now with Pompeo providing an update certifying that Hong Kong is no longer autonomous from China.

Could have major implications as escalations continue.

I know there are a few HKers on RAWK.  How are things like there today?  I assume tense as protests are still ongoing.
King Kenny.

Offline surfer. Fuck you generator.

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Re: Thousands at Hong Kong protest as Occupy Central is launched
« Reply #132 on: May 28, 2020, 07:42:58 am »
Any action that the US takes on HK will hurt the economy, the people and their quality of life more than it affects mainland China. The secondary, short-term damage will be borne near equally by both the US and China, but the main, lingering costs will be borne by HK. . I don't even need to tag on an 'imo' after that.I would say an adult needs to take Trump and Pompeo to one side and explain how the global ecosystem of financial markets works, but at this point, I doubt there's anyone competent around him except toadies.

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Re: Thousands at Hong Kong protest as Occupy Central is launched
« Reply #133 on: May 28, 2020, 07:37:10 pm »
This is a decent summary of the situation from an economic / financial perspective:

www.marketwatch.com/amp/story/guid/E6DBFE86-A026-11EA-8E16-6909CF58D747

Offline Gnurglan

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Re: Thousands at Hong Kong protest as Occupy Central is launched
« Reply #134 on: May 28, 2020, 08:53:31 pm »
Any action that the US takes on HK will hurt the economy, the people and their quality of life more than it affects mainland China. The secondary, short-term damage will be borne near equally by both the US and China, but the main, lingering costs will be borne by HK. . I don't even need to tag on an 'imo' after that.I would say an adult needs to take Trump and Pompeo to one side and explain how the global ecosystem of financial markets works, but at this point, I doubt there's anyone competent around him except toadies.

How bad is the situation? I saw some worrying numbers, where real estate prices were extremly high with lots of debt. HSBC and Standard Chartered were heavily involved. With all the troubles in the streets and China's influence the appeal for real estate was in danger of crashing down. That would be bad for those banks (and lots of people).

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Offline RedForeverTT

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Re: Thousands at Hong Kong protest as Occupy Central is launched
« Reply #135 on: June 2, 2020, 07:30:39 pm »
Their place is really in a bad situation. Generations have got used to democracy and law and order left behind by previous British administration and any alignment to China will diminish their ability to self govern.

They deserve as much attention as BLM movement in the US. But because it is not trendy to protest against the Chinese government and lets be honest, a number of Hollywood stars are already on Chinese payroll, therefore their cause is just swept under the carpet.

Offline Kashinoda

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Re: Thousands at Hong Kong protest as Occupy Central is launched
« Reply #136 on: June 3, 2020, 05:30:50 am »
Their place is really in a bad situation. Generations have got used to democracy and law and order left behind by previous British administration and any alignment to China will diminish their ability to self govern.

They deserve as much attention as BLM movement in the US. But because it is not trendy to protest against the Chinese government and lets be honest, a number of Hollywood stars are already on Chinese payroll, therefore their cause is just swept under the carpet.

Money talks.

:D

Offline J_Kopite

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Re: Thousands at Hong Kong protest as Occupy Central is launched
« Reply #137 on: June 3, 2020, 09:40:32 am »
Money talks.



Pathetic, and exactly why corporate wokeness is one big joke.

Offline RedForeverTT

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Thousands at Hong Kong protest as Occupy Central is launched
« Reply #138 on: June 3, 2020, 09:55:55 am »
And the NBA franchises as well. Didn’t Houston Rocket has to apologise to China and condemn their own player for speaking up for democracy in China?

Double standards. If it has been BLM the franchise would have supported their player portrayed themselves as taking an ethical stand because it was easy to do so. But China? No, because that would cost them millions in TV money.

Offline Indomitable_Carp

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Re: Thousands at Hong Kong protest as Occupy Central is launched
« Reply #139 on: June 3, 2020, 01:03:24 pm »
Very sad situation this. And a seemingly hopeless one as the only real power capable of throwing its weight behind the people of Hong Kong has completely vacated the position of moral and political leadership. Not just in terms of Trumps regressive view of international politics, but also due the fact that it is hard to moralise about democracy, justice and peaceful protest in the midst of brutal and violent crackdowns occurring nationwide on US streets. It is very bleak indeed.

Their place is really in a bad situation. Generations have got used to democracy and law and order left behind by previous British administration and any alignment to China will diminish their ability to self govern.

They deserve as much attention as BLM movement in the US. But because it is not trendy to protest against the Chinese government and lets be honest, a number of Hollywood stars are already on Chinese payroll, therefore their cause is just swept under the carpet.

It should do, but the fact of the matter is the US is still the worlds foremost superpower (not for so much longer) and the main cultural barometer for most of the world. The era of unrivalled US supremacy rapidly and dramatically imploding is always going to draw more attention unfortunately. Not that the situation in Hong Kong is any less prophetic for the future of the world.


Offline Kashinoda

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Re: Thousands at Hong Kong protest as Occupy Central is launched
« Reply #140 on: June 30, 2020, 10:55:24 am »
Hong Kong security law: China passes controversial legislation
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-53230391

 :'( :'(
:D

Offline Gerry Attrick

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Re: Thousands at Hong Kong protest as Occupy Central is launched
« Reply #141 on: June 30, 2020, 11:02:54 am »
They're going to fall to autocracy and the western nations have barely batted a fucking eyelid. Disgusting.

Offline fowlermagic

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Re: Thousands at Hong Kong protest as Occupy Central is launched
« Reply #142 on: June 30, 2020, 01:40:07 pm »
They're going to fall to autocracy and the western nations have barely batted a fucking eyelid. Disgusting.

Its quite sickening really as China is shitting all over human rights but do we give much of a damn or go out and march? Not likely it seems as their treatment of the Uighurs by enslaving them in prison camps is what Hitler was doing. They are sterilising and aborting pregnancies there, probably have separated men from the women and the children from their parents & all we do is line their pockets by buying products made by this slave labour. Its disgusting and if we had any spine at all we would bring them into line as the world has no place for another holocaust.
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Re: Thousands at Hong Kong protest as Occupy Central is launched
« Reply #143 on: July 1, 2020, 08:01:35 am »


:D

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Re: Thousands at Hong Kong protest as Occupy Central is launched
« Reply #144 on: July 1, 2020, 09:22:15 am »




That will not be popular with the HK people. Protests back on the street? I wonder what the reactions from the world will be.

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Offline JovaJova

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Re: Thousands at Hong Kong protest as Occupy Central is launched
« Reply #145 on: July 1, 2020, 03:21:55 pm »
To counter the western news headlines, I spent the entire day in the area where there were supposed protests today. Very little trouble, very few people on the streets, easiest day the police have had in two years.

This is more of a story for the western press than the HK people.

I’m betting if people look back on HK in 20 years time it will be a thriving, successful city, light years ahead of their western equivalents.
« Last Edit: July 1, 2020, 03:26:05 pm by JovaJova »
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Re: Thousands at Hong Kong protest as Occupy Central is launched
« Reply #146 on: July 1, 2020, 04:21:44 pm »
To counter the western news headlines, I spent the entire day in the area where there were supposed protests today. Very little trouble, very few people on the streets, easiest day the police have had in two years.

This is more of a story for the western press than the HK people.

*I’m betting if people look back on HK in 20 years time it will be a thriving, successful city, light years ahead of their western equivalents.

*As long as you don't speak out against the glorious PRC

Hong Kong has been a thriving, successful city, light years ahead of their western equivalents for a long time. It's becoming less so year on year.
:D

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Re: Thousands at Hong Kong protest as Occupy Central is launched
« Reply #147 on: July 1, 2020, 05:11:24 pm »
Ha, the Sky Foreign Affairs correspondent Deborah Haynes was talking about this and then her son interrupted the report to ask if he could have 2 biscuits.

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Re: Thousands at Hong Kong protest as Occupy Central is launched
« Reply #148 on: July 1, 2020, 05:44:23 pm »
I think this should possibly also go in the Politics thread... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-53246899

...Up to three million Hong Kong residents are to be offered the chance to settle in the UK and ultimately apply for citizenship, Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson has said.

The PM said Hong Kong's freedoms were being violated by a new security law and those affected would be offered a "route" out of the former UK colony.

About 350,000 UK passport holders, and 2.6 million others eligible, will be able to come to the UK for five years.

And after a further year, they will be able to apply for citizenship...


This should be interesting.
I don't do polite so fuck yoursalf with your stupid accusations...

Right you fuckwit I will show you why you are talking out of your fat arse...

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Offline Iska

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Re: Thousands at Hong Kong protest as Occupy Central is launched
« Reply #149 on: July 1, 2020, 06:46:00 pm »
I think this should possibly also go in the Politics thread... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-53246899
Very pleased about this, this is a proper, grown-up ethical thing for the UK to use its immigration policy for.  We should probably have done it in 1997.

Though I only learned recently that Canada in fact did something similar in 1997, but with the unexpected (to me) effect that loads of HKers moved to Vancouver for a short time to acquire residence rights, before going straight back to Hong Kong.  So there are actually loads of people in Hong Kong who have Canadian citizenship or residence rights - as in, one person in every 6 households, something like that.  So we aren’t going to get 3 million coming here anyway, and there probably won’t be anything like 3 million who leave at all.

Offline CraigDS

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Re: Thousands at Hong Kong protest as Occupy Central is launched
« Reply #150 on: July 2, 2020, 09:35:33 am »
I’m betting if people look back on HK in 20 years time it will be a thriving, successful city, light years ahead of their western equivalents.

Just without a load of freedoms those shitty western equivalents have - so you know, swings and roundabouts.

Offline classycarra

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Re: Thousands at Hong Kong protest as Occupy Central is launched
« Reply #151 on: July 2, 2020, 12:14:19 pm »
This is more of a story for the western press than the HK people.
:lmao


Whats the view like down there in the sand?

Cuba's lead on support of the legislation at the UN - denigrating universality of human rights, praising China for handling Hong Kong as China's internal affairs and criticising the rest of the world for caring - is hilarious in its cynical transparency. Fully fellating China
« Last Edit: July 2, 2020, 12:19:44 pm by Classycara »

Offline JovaJova

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Re: Thousands at Hong Kong protest as Occupy Central is launched
« Reply #152 on: July 4, 2020, 08:50:47 pm »
Just without a load of freedoms those shitty western equivalents have - so you know, swings and roundabouts.

Come live here buddy, see what freedoms you are missing compared to the USA 🇺🇸 Or UK 🇬🇧
« Last Edit: July 4, 2020, 08:53:51 pm by JovaJova »
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Offline Gnurglan

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Re: Thousands at Hong Kong protest as Occupy Central is launched
« Reply #153 on: July 4, 2020, 08:57:15 pm »
Come live here buddy, see what freedoms you are missing compared to the USA 🇺🇸 Or UK 🇬🇧

Not worried about China?

Also, would you say people/corporations are moving to or away from HK? No change?

        * * * * * *


"The key isn't the system itself, but how the players adapt on the pitch. It doesn't matter if it's 4-3-3 or 4-4-2, it's the role of the players that counts." Rafa Benitez

Offline JovaJova

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Re: Thousands at Hong Kong protest as Occupy Central is launched
« Reply #154 on: July 4, 2020, 09:07:12 pm »
Not worried about China?

Also, would you say people/corporations are moving to or away from HK? No change?

Dude nobody here gives a flying fuck about Donald’s sanctions. The hypocrisy is actually a source of a lot of amusement. Also nobody is moving to Uk Under Boris’ nonsense. Life here is too damn good.

I’m British so I don’t want to be too harsh but the colonial era is over.

The West should actually be bending over for China, they just don’t know it yet


You said, I think I'm like Tennessee Williams, I wait for the click, I wait but it doesn't kick in

Offline Gerry Attrick

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Re: Thousands at Hong Kong protest as Occupy Central is launched
« Reply #155 on: July 4, 2020, 09:08:39 pm »
Dude nobody here gives a flying fuck about Donald’s sanctions. The hypocrisy is actually a source of a lot of amusement. Also nobody is moving to Uk Under Boris’ nonsense. Life here is too damn good.

I’m British so I don’t want to be too harsh but the colonial era is over.

The West should actually be bending over for China, they just don’t know it yet

Bending over despite what they're doing to Uighur Muslims? Do me a favour ffs.

Offline Gnurglan

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Re: Thousands at Hong Kong protest as Occupy Central is launched
« Reply #156 on: July 4, 2020, 09:19:52 pm »
Dude nobody here gives a flying fuck about Donald’s sanctions. The hypocrisy is actually a source of a lot of amusement. Also nobody is moving to Uk Under Boris’ nonsense. Life here is too damn good.

I wasn't thinking of the sanctions. A former neighbor of mine used to live in HK. That was a few years ago. Life was good, but expensive. With China playing a bigger part, I suspect people/corporations may hesitate to stay or move to HK.

        * * * * * *


"The key isn't the system itself, but how the players adapt on the pitch. It doesn't matter if it's 4-3-3 or 4-4-2, it's the role of the players that counts." Rafa Benitez

Offline JovaJova

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Re: Thousands at Hong Kong protest as Occupy Central is launched
« Reply #157 on: July 4, 2020, 09:38:01 pm »
I wasn't thinking of the sanctions. A former neighbor of mine used to live in HK. That was a few years ago. Life was good, but expensive. With China playing a bigger part, I suspect people/corporations may hesitate to stay or move to HK.

China is not devil west thinks it is. Visit any Chinese city these days and you will visiting a vibrant, futuristic city. Hong Kong’s freedom is a model for the rest of China to aspire to and the 50 year handover was set to give the rest of the China the chance to slowly open up to match what HK has.


The reason I despise the western reporting of this whole situation is because it is so one sided and narrow  minded. I’m not sure even a single western journalist has talked to a single Chinese person about what their opinion is on this situation.
You said, I think I'm like Tennessee Williams, I wait for the click, I wait but it doesn't kick in

Offline Gnurglan

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Re: Thousands at Hong Kong protest as Occupy Central is launched
« Reply #158 on: July 5, 2020, 01:07:39 am »
China is not devil west thinks it is. Visit any Chinese city these days and you will visiting a vibrant, futuristic city. Hong Kong’s freedom is a model for the rest of China to aspire to and the 50 year handover was set to give the rest of the China the chance to slowly open up to match what HK has.


The reason I despise the western reporting of this whole situation is because it is so one sided and narrow  minded. I’m not sure even a single western journalist has talked to a single Chinese person about what their opinion is on this situation.

No doubt China are making rapid progress. The future is in Asia. But I don't believe China have any intention to open up their society. I believe they will want to become the number ones again and have other countries model their societies after China. Including HK.

Personally, I don't trust China. But I respect them. Their long term view is impressive. I probably fear them too. Some of it because I don't understand them. Some of it is because of what they do. IMO they have fooled most of the West for a couple of decades. Some of the stories I read, like what they do to minorities is absolutely horrible. If true the only parallell is from the 1940s.

In the near future I keep an eye on HK not just for the protests. My concern is also for the economy. My understanding is that we have two major banks with real exposure to the housing market. If people leave HK and prices were to go down that could get ugly. Here's a video on it.
https://youtu.be/QwjiIIht0bw

        * * * * * *


"The key isn't the system itself, but how the players adapt on the pitch. It doesn't matter if it's 4-3-3 or 4-4-2, it's the role of the players that counts." Rafa Benitez

Offline Max_powers

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Re: Thousands at Hong Kong protest as Occupy Central is launched
« Reply #159 on: July 5, 2020, 04:09:02 am »
China is not opening up anytime soon. If anything Hong Kong would likely become another Chinese city. I doubt it'll suffer that much economically. But culturally it'll be different, also I doubt any dissenters would be spared.

Re: China not being a terrible regime because its cities are vibrant and futuristic

Same can be said of Saudi Arabia or UAE. It doesn't excuse the terrible record of these regimes on human rights and respecting basic freedoms.