Topic: Atalanta away selling details

[Tiz Lad]

Totally agree but can’t see it changing as no progress made on other matters including transparency of how many on each credit - they don’t want supporters to know because they can hide the truth !!

Spot on, there will never be transparency on the numbers at each credit level.

Just like there will be zero progress on attendee gets the credit as was outlined in the July ticketing forum minutes, as for that to happen it would have to get past the supporters board, and has been mentioned several times on here, that's turkey's voting for Christmas as the supporters board has a vested interest in keeping it as it is and if possible removing collections

[ABJ]

I think they initially took about 210 before putting 60 back into the first sale.

They took 245 initially, not 210 + the 60 odd returns went into the 2nd sale, not the 1st one.

[Pata]

They took 245 initially, not 210 + the 60 odd returns went into the 2nd sale, not the 1st one.

60 deffo showed up during the 1st sale:
https://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=355610.msg19324197#msg19324197
I was out by 35 from where I expected the 1st sale to end up. How many were in the 2nd sale @ Sparta? 135?

[Barry Banana]

Spot on, there will never be transparency on the numbers at each credit level.

Just like there will be zero progress on attendee gets the credit as was outlined in the July ticketing forum minutes, as for that to happen it would have to get past the supporters board, and has been mentioned several times on here, that's turkey's voting for Christmas as the supporters board has a vested interest in keeping it as it is and if possible removing collections

Which specific members of the supporters board have this vested interest? And surely many will have vested interests in change.

An experienced Euro away traveller on that board could legitimately and neutrally lay out the challenges of various approaches (such as those discussed in here) and they’d be doing their job. If the club doesn’t take action because of the mess it has created that’s not on the supporters board.

[Tiz Lad]

Which specific members of the supporters board have this vested interest? And surely many will have vested interests in change.

An experienced Euro away traveller on that board could legitimately and neutrally lay out the challenges of various approaches (such as those discussed in here) and they’d be doing their job. If the club doesn’t take action because of the mess it has created that’s not on the supporters board.

Supporters board has a large number of SoS members and they are completely opposed to collections for Euro aways, and therefore by it's very inference the attendee gets the credit, as how can that be proven without a collection, therefore maintaining a closed shop, where tickets are passed to whoever the purchaser would like

https://spiritofshankly.com/european-ticket-collection/

The lack of transparency on credits is down to club, and given the fact that a random % of, using this season as an example, 25-37% of the guaranteed sale is held back for hopsitality/sponsors, then that is something that will never change

[Barry Banana]

Supporters board has a large number of SoS members and they are completely opposed to collections for Euro aways, and therefore by it's very inference the attendee gets the credit, as how can that be proven without a collection, therefore maintaining a closed shop, where tickets are passed to whoever the purchaser would like

https://spiritofshankly.com/european-ticket-collection/

The lack of transparency on credits is down to club, and given the fact that a random % of, using this season as an example, 25-37% of the guaranteed sale is held back for hopsitality/sponsors, then that is something that will never change

Loads of us are against collections for the legitimate reasons stated in the last minutes: https://backend.liverpoolfc.com/sites/default/files/2023-10/Ticketing031023.pdf?lfm_medium=marketing-block-other&lfm_source=cms&lfm_content=basic-page-formatted-text&lfm_page=%2Finfo%2Ffan-forum-ticketing&lfm_campaign=other-marketing-blocks&lfm_page_position=0

And if you read through all the minutes (July 2023 - https://backend.liverpoolfc.com/sites/default/files/2023-09/24th%20July%202023%20adhoc%20meeting.pdf?lfm_medium=marketing-block-other&lfm_source=cms&lfm_content=basic-page-formatted-text&lfm_page=%2Finfo%2Ffan-forum-ticketing&lfm_campaign=other-marketing-blocks&lfm_page_position=0) the idea of attendee getting the credit was raised by the board - not the club. The way the minutes are written is a bit shoddy but that part is under “points raised by forum members”.

I know three of the people on that supporters board and know them to be fair and sensible people who want fair and sensible solutions. You shouting unfounded abuse at them because of a link to Spirit of Shankly isn’t helpful.

[Tiz Lad]

Loads of us are against collections for the legitimate reasons stated in the last minutes: https://backend.liverpoolfc.com/sites/default/files/2023-10/Ticketing031023.pdf?lfm_medium=marketing-block-other&lfm_source=cms&lfm_content=basic-page-formatted-text&lfm_page=%2Finfo%2Ffan-forum-ticketing&lfm_campaign=other-marketing-blocks&lfm_page_position=0

And if you read through all the minutes (July 2023 - https://backend.liverpoolfc.com/sites/default/files/2023-09/24th%20July%202023%20adhoc%20meeting.pdf?lfm_medium=marketing-block-other&lfm_source=cms&lfm_content=basic-page-formatted-text&lfm_page=%2Finfo%2Ffan-forum-ticketing&lfm_campaign=other-marketing-blocks&lfm_page_position=0) the idea of attendee getting the credit was raised by the board - not the club. The way the minutes are written is a bit shoddy but that part is under “points raised by forum members”.

I know three of the people on that supporters board and know them to be fair and sensible people who want fair and sensible solutions. You shouting unfounded abuse at them because of a link to Spirit of Shankly isn’t helpful.

So how do you possibly police the away policy without collections or are you happy to maintain the closed shop.

Simple question

[Barry Banana]

So how do you possibly police the away policy without collections or are you happy to maintain the closed shop.

Simple question

Loads of solutions.

Proof of travel. Full ban for anyone faking.

Proper ID checks at turnstiles - already in place in Italy (and was at Barca too).

Some tech solution - e.g. ticket on personal NFC - full ban for anyone pissing about. (There will be loads in the tech solution space that neither you or I can think about). EDIT: the version of this employed at Rangers could work too.

10% collection as per previous - harsh sanctions for people who don’t collect without legitimate reason.

Sending everyone out of their way to get a ticket in an already limited hours trip isn’t the only way to ensure correct people attend.

[Tiz Lad]

Loads of solutions.

Proof of travel. Full ban for anyone faking. - How do you prove a fake - the ones that do it would be far in advance, skill wise, than anything the club has, as vast majority of travel tickets are held on a phone

Proper ID checks at turnstiles - already in place in Italy (and was at Barca too). - So you have to carry a passport or driving licence to every game? This will lead to enormous queues when loads generally turn up ½-1 hr before the game.

Some tech solution - e.g. ticket on personal NFC - full ban for anyone pissing about. (There will be loads in the tech solution space that neither you or I can think about). Club aren't the remotest bit  bothered as screenshots still work at home, been next to 2 different lots people at last 2 Euro homes, both times with a screenshot of a ticket

10% collection as per previous - harsh sanctions for people who don’t collect without legitimate reason.

Sending someone out of their way to get a ticket in an already limited hours trip isn’t the only way to ensure correct people attend.

[Barry Banana]

You seem very negative about legitimate alternatives to the massive inconvenience of collection. Almost like you’re not engaging in good faith cos you have an agenda against Spirit of Shankly and the Supporters Board.

[Tiz Lad]

You seem very negative about legitimate alternatives to the massive inconvenience of collection. Almost like you’re not engaging in good faith cos you have an agenda against Spirit of Shankly and the Supporters Board.

What I did was offered issues to the alternatives that you put up.

Collections are pointless until the named person gets the credit, so that may as well be scrapped too. But as detailed in those minutes the club has absolutley no intention of changing that policy, so the policy may as well be used properly so that the attendee gets the credit, but that's not what you want as you want no collections, bar 10%

Any tech will require club investment and has been proven with the inadequacies of the current ticketing system, they will do the bare minimum as they know every LFC game home or away sells out

You will also find plenty of people other than me, that have used the turkeys voting for christmas analogy about the suppporters board.

[30fiver]

At least 26 added back in, which were not there this morning

308 left at the moment

[Barry Banana]

What I did was offered issues to the alternatives that you put up.

Collections are pointless until the named person gets the credit, so that may as well be scrapped too. But as detailed in those minutes the club has absolutley no intention of changing that policy, so the policy may as well be used properly so that the attendee gets the credit, but that's not what you want as you want no collections, bar 10%

Any tech will require club investment and has been proven with the inadequacies of the current ticketing system, they will do the bare minimum as they know every LFC game home or away sells out

You will also find plenty of people other than me, that have used the turkeys voting for christmas analogy about the suppporters board.

That really isn’t what is detailed in those minutes. Those minutes detail that it is an option being seriously considered and that the club will be doing a full review. There were commitments (from the club, not the board) of full plans for that late last year. But no apparent progress and no minutes since October.

The fact other people are throwing shite at volunteers trying to do a good thing without foundation doesn’t mean it’s legitimate for you to do so.

Same with the club - saying “they won’t do this”, “they won’t do that”. You simply can’t know what they will or won’t do. They frustrate me as much as next person but they’ve said they’ll review it and while progress is slow - you don’t know what the future holds.

BTW - if @tizlad is your Twitter, I’d add that while a few decisions might have gone against us - there isn’t a PGMOL conspiracy. And calling Klopp and the players disgraceful after one defeat feels over emotional.

You don’t need to scream and shout and invent un evidenced theories every time something doesn’t go your way. Be a bit calmer.

[Tiz Lad]

That really isn’t what is detailed in those minutes. Those minutes detail that it is an option being seriously considered and that the club will be doing a full review. There were commitments (from the club, not the board) of full plans for that late last year. But no apparent progress and no minutes since October.

The fact other people are throwing shite at volunteers trying to do a good thing without foundation doesn’t mean it’s legitimate for you to do so.

Same with the club - saying “they won’t do this”, “they won’t do that”. You simply can’t know what they will or won’t do. They frustrate me as much as next person but they’ve said they’ll review it and while progress is slow - you don’t know what the future holds.

BTW - if @tizlad is your Twitter, I’d add that while a few decisions might have gone against us - there isn’t a PGMOL conspiracy. And calling Klopp and the players disgraceful after one defeat feels over emotional.

You don’t need to scream and shout and invent un evidenced theories every time something doesn’t go your way. Be a bit calmer.

Ah patronization coz you disagree with views and opinions. My views and my opinions at a snapshot in time, you don't like them so be it. As to a disgrace - more paraphrasing nonsense from you. Exact words after United - Zero sympathy for Klopp or players there, very sloppy - totally dominant yet they let a team that's out on their feet back into it, through their own ineptitude. Do you think we didn't throw that game away?

From the minutes - Q - Euro aways have been collections, will this stay?

A - yes. We have no current intention of doing collections for domestic away games

[Pata]

At least 26 added back in, which were not there this morning
308 left at the moment

16 in 103 & 10 in 101. Nice.

So, I think they sold about 3 tickets in the last 2 hours.

[Luke 17]

everyone should be against collections. it's an inconvenience for no benefit. The tickets can still be put in other peoples names so it's literally a waste of everyones time.

[30fiver]

everyone should be against collections. it's an inconvenience for no benefit. The tickets can still be put in other peoples names so it's literally a waste of everyones time.

I think a lot of it is down to the host clubs and authorities wanting to know who is in the ground

I don't think LFC get a kick out of spending thousands on sending their staff over to run a collection point for 2 days for the shits and giggles

[Tiz Lad]

everyone should be against collections. it's an inconvenience for no benefit. The tickets can still be put in other peoples names so it's literally a waste of everyones time.

I've said this all along - Collections are pointless until the named person gets the credit, so that may as well be scrapped too. Almost Impossible to find a solution that will satisfy the majority, which is why in personal opinion very little will change

[eoa106]

everyone should be against collections. it's an inconvenience for no benefit. The tickets can still be put in other peoples names so it's literally a waste of everyones time.

I tend to agree. Mind you the LFC staff travelling over might enjoy the change of scenery. On a serious note though, I do wonder whether the collection system reduces touting a bit?

[Tiger Tony]

I tend to agree. Mind you the LFC staff travelling over might enjoy the change of scenery. On a serious note though, I do wonder whether the collection system reduces touting a bit?

Not when there is massive demand. Just means a buyer has to be lined up and paid before they go on sale. It's a minor inconvenience to touts at most

[RedSue]

I tend to agree. Mind you the LFC staff travelling over might enjoy the change of scenery. On a serious note though, I do wonder whether the collection system reduces touting a bit?

The random collection process meant that you had to name someone (and yes understand that doesn’t help with the credit) but does stop touting to highest bidder, as you’ve know idea if you’ll be selected but making everyone collect every game is just pointless.

They can see how many people travel in their own name, so could do some analysis on how many people never attend, how many don’t do groups etc and then understand the issue and agree a policy accordingly.  None of us know how many people on their own credits and only hear from people using others people’s credits on messsde boards.  Personally I have all credits in my own name, and so do the people I meet up with or sit by at Anfield, so would be good to know actual % in own name.

[30fiver]

The random collection process meant that you had to name someone (and yes understand that doesn’t help with the credit) but does stop touting to highest bidder, as you’ve know idea if you’ll be selected but making everyone collect every game is just pointless.

They can see how many people travel in their own name, so could do some analysis on how many people never attend, how many don’t do groups etc and then understand the issue and agree a policy accordingly.  None of us know how many people on their own credits and only hear from people using others people’s credits on messsde boards.  Personally I have all credits in my own name, and so do the people I meet up with or sit by at Anfield, so would be good to know actual % in own name.

I think last season with the 4 CL games, there were over 400 who passed on all 4 fixtures

Which bearing in mind Madrid was 1800, minus whatever was scooped off the top by LFC

A lot will have 'attended' Napoli in their own name in spirit and didn't actually travel.

[RedSue]

I think last season with the 4 CL games, there were over 400 who passed on all 4 fixtures

Which bearing in mind Madrid was 1800, minus whatever was scooped off the top by LFC

A lot will have 'attended' Napoli in their own name in spirit and didn't actually travel.

Ok so around 25/30% although no idea how accurate those figures are or who provided?

Part of the issue is if you start giving credits match by match, those using others credits won’t qualify unless big allocations and those whose tickets are using won’t be able to get tickets that others are using. LFC won’t let you transfer credits across memberships, so it might not work out quite as well as people hope especially in early stages…..

[Danny Boy]

Loads of us are against collections for the legitimate reasons stated in the last minutes: https://backend.liverpoolfc.com/sites/default/files/2023-10/Ticketing031023.pdf?lfm_medium=marketing-block-other&lfm_source=cms&lfm_content=basic-page-formatted-text&lfm_page=%2Finfo%2Ffan-forum-ticketing&lfm_campaign=other-marketing-blocks&lfm_page_position=0

And if you read through all the minutes (July 2023 - https://backend.liverpoolfc.com/sites/default/files/2023-09/24th%20July%202023%20adhoc%20meeting.pdf?lfm_medium=marketing-block-other&lfm_source=cms&lfm_content=basic-page-formatted-text&lfm_page=%2Finfo%2Ffan-forum-ticketing&lfm_campaign=other-marketing-blocks&lfm_page_position=0) the idea of attendee getting the credit was raised by the board - not the club. The way the minutes are written is a bit shoddy but that part is under “points raised by forum members”.

I know three of the people on that supporters board and know them to be fair and sensible people who want fair and sensible solutions. You shouting unfounded abuse at them because of a link to Spirit of Shankly isn’t helpful.

Are there any more recent minutes than the link you've posted please? Both really interesting to read - would be good to see the most recent minutes if available.

Thank you

[30fiver]

Ok so around 25/30% although no idea how accurate those figures are or who provided?

Part of the issue is if you start giving credits match by match, those using others credits won’t qualify unless big allocations and those whose tickets are using won’t be able to get tickets that others are using. LFC won’t let you transfer credits across memberships, so it might not work out quite as well as people hope especially in early stages…..

The club
https://backend.liverpoolfc.com/sites/default/files/2023-10/Ticketing031023.pdf?lfm_medium=marketing-block-other&lfm_source=cms&lfm_content=basic-page-formatted-text&lfm_page=%2Finfo%2Ffan-forum-ticketing&lfm_campaign=other-marketing-blocks&lfm_page_position=0


And I know it creates an issue, like this season if you gave LASk someone you'd not have got any other game and neither would they

[Barry Banana]

Ah patronization coz you disagree with views and opinions. My views and my opinions at a snapshot in time, you don't like them so be it. As to a disgrace - more paraphrasing nonsense from you. Exact words after United - Zero sympathy for Klopp or players there, very sloppy - totally dominant yet they let a team that's out on their feet back into it, through their own ineptitude. Do you think we didn't throw that game away?

From the minutes - Q - Euro aways have been collections, will this stay?

A - yes. We have no current intention of doing collections for domestic away games

You retweeted people calling Klopp and the team a disgrace.

Anyway - I understood you to be saying the policy of named person getting the credits had been dismissed by the club. It hasn’t.

[Barry Banana]

Are there any more recent minutes than the link you've posted please? Both really interesting to read - would be good to see the most recent minutes if available.

Thank you

There’s no more recent: https://www.liverpoolfc.com/info/fan-forum-ticketing

[Tiz Lad]

You retweeted people calling Klopp and the team a disgrace.

Anyway - I understood you to be saying the policy of named person getting the credits had been dismissed by the club. It hasn’t.

Well in this case you misunderstood. At present the club has no plans to change collection at European aways is exactly what I was referring to

Why they didn't go through work trialling attendee gets the credit as detailed in the July minutes, you'd obviously have more idea than me

[Craig S]

Ok so around 25/30% although no idea how accurate those figures are or who provided?

Part of the issue is if you start giving credits match by match, those using others credits won’t qualify unless big allocations and those whose tickets are using won’t be able to get tickets that others are using. LFC won’t let you transfer credits across memberships, so it might not work out quite as well as people hope especially in early stages…..

This was the issue the supporters board brought up. It hadn't been factored in to the clubs thinking. The supporters board didn't vote it down, despite what the club mouth pieces will tell you in here. They did bring up this issue though.

It was the implementation they had issues with. Who would have thought the ticket office could come up with something without considering all the ramifications?

As.for "all sos board have 24" is complete utter fucking nonsense. I personally know someone on it and he hasn't qualified for a single euro away this season. He will get a semi if we get through.

Again you have the lick spittles in here telling you the clubs version of events.

Like Barry says having a pop at people who give up their own time to help other supporters. Certain supporters that are bad mouthing them get a direct benefit every other week that SOS were at the absolute forefront of - the £30 away cap.

[Tommypig]

At least 26 added back in, which were not there this morning

308 left at the moment

So approx 197 on 24/24 if no others get sold

[Craig S]

So approx 197 on 24/24 if no others get sold

That's still slightly inflated. Any corporates that get a ballot success buy in the guaranteed sale too

[ABJ]

So approx 197 on 24/24 if no others get sold

As of right now, 219 have been sold although no doubt as always happens, a fair few 'forgetful' people will buy between tonight and early tomorrow morning.

[30fiver]

As of right now, 219 have been sold although no doubt as always happens, a fair few 'forgetful' people will buy between tonight and early tomorrow morning.

How many people do you reckon would be in the 2nd sale

[shaunNW]

Loads of solutions.

Proof of travel. Full ban for anyone faking.

Proper ID checks at turnstiles - already in place in Italy (and was at Barca too).

Some tech solution - e.g. ticket on personal NFC - full ban for anyone pissing about. (There will be loads in the tech solution space that neither you or I can think about). EDIT: the version of this employed at Rangers could work too.

10% collection as per previous - harsh sanctions for people who don’t collect without legitimate reason.

Sending everyone out of their way to get a ticket in an already limited hours trip isn’t the only way to ensure correct people attend.

I'd 1000% want a collection over an ID check at turnstile. Think of it in previous and how that often causes a bottleneck.

[GPLFC]

I've said this all along - Collections are pointless until the named person gets the credit, so that may as well be scrapped too. Almost Impossible to find a solution that will satisfy the majority, which is why in personal opinion very little will change

Wonder what would have happened if collections were in place for the Napoli games, I've been to them all and at one I recon there were less than 400 in the ground even though we sold 2,500 tickets !

[30fiver]

Wonder what would have happened if collections were in place for the Napoli games, I've been to them all and at one I recon there were less than 400 in the ground even though we sold 2,500 tickets !

24 wouldn't be the first sale for atalanta! 😂

[ABJ]

Wonder what would have happened if collections were in place for the Napoli games, I've been to them all and at one I recon there were less than 400 in the ground even though we sold 2,500 tickets !

Not as bad as Beşiktaş in 2015, we sold 4K but only 500 odd actually travelled.

[Barry Banana]

I'd 1000% want a collection over an ID check at turnstile. Think of it in previous and how that often causes a bottleneck.

I can only think of it causing a bottleneck in Rome where they kept us in that holding pen for a couple of hours before they started checking. San Siro, Barca, all fine.

It’s not my preferred option but beats needing to be in the city a lot earlier than you would - often meaning transport is a lot more expensive - then taking hours out of your day.

No option perfect but the current one is shite.

[Pata]

Seeing another 22 + 10(?) returns in 101

[DougLFC94]

Tomorrow's 23 sale has been updated to a garuanteed sale...fucking result