Author Topic: Serie A  (Read 316377 times)

Offline CalgarianRed

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Re: Serie A
« Reply #2320 on: February 28, 2021, 09:31:45 pm »
Watching second half of Roma-Milan and Kessie looks one hell of a player. Basically a one man midfield at times. He has massively stepped up this season.

Inter should win it from here, they are out of Europe so should have no excuses.

Juve will likely wait and see how far they get in the CL. If Pirlo can take them to semis and further, they might stick with him. Although like Lampard and Ole, he does look out of his depth there.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2021, 09:33:18 pm by CalgarianRed »
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Offline Dave McCoy

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Re: Serie A
« Reply #2321 on: March 14, 2021, 09:40:07 pm »
Switched to Napoli/Milan and it’s been some glorious shithousery.

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Re: Serie A
« Reply #2322 on: March 15, 2021, 10:57:50 am »
Watching second half of Roma-Milan and Kessie looks one hell of a player. Basically a one man midfield at times. He has massively stepped up this season.

Inter should win it from here, they are out of Europe so should have no excuses.

Juve will likely wait and see how far they get in the CL. If Pirlo can take them to semis and further, they might stick with him. Although like Lampard and Ole, he does look out of his depth there.
Yeah Kessie is fantastic isn't he? Looks made for the Premier League.

Switched to Napoli/Milan and it’s been some glorious shithousery.
I feel like a sacking might be imminent. They've collapsed of late and all of a sudden they're 9 points behind Inter, with a faltering Juve about to overtake them. Napoli are well back in it too, I'd say, for now anyway.

Ronaldo scored a 'perfect' hattrick inside 22 minutes in the first half as Juve won at Cagliari 1-3 to start building up a head of steam - they're now undefeated in 5.

Lukaku scored again and showing why he's actually so underrated - he doesn't have top level technique but his movement is good, he's an improved finisher and physically he's so dominant - 19 goals and 8 assists is sensational. Luis Muriel also has 16 goals and 7 assists, finally looking like the player many earmarked him to become in his early 20s - he's 30 next month.

Inter winning with a late Lautaro winner at Torino. I think Lautaro is great, 17 G+A in 25 matches this season, only 23 so now in the typical 'pre-peak' phase for forwards but putting up elite numbers, presses hard from the front, dribbles beautifully, shoots powerfully and finishes well. He sometimes dwells on the ball a moment too long - this I'm sure would soon be kicked out of him if he were to move to somewhere like the Premier League. I'd hate to see him at City or somewhere of that ilk. Having said that, if Inter do win Serie A would he even look to move?
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Re: Serie A
« Reply #2323 on: March 15, 2021, 11:12:45 am »
A question for Serie-A followers and historians.

I've often wondered why Torino have never been able to recover after the Superga disaster. At that stage of course they were the most successful football club in Italy. I know they won the Title again once more in the 70s but - unlike Man United after Munich - they never recaptured their prestige, their status or their competitiveness. They seem to be constantly fighting relegation and playing in front of paltry crowds. They share a city with Juventus of course, but other big cities in Italy (and Europe) often host two great clubs. Not Turin though. Not anymore. Any theories? 
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Offline Drinks Sangria

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Re: Serie A
« Reply #2324 on: March 15, 2021, 12:25:07 pm »
A question for Serie-A followers and historians.

I've often wondered why Torino have never been able to recover after the Superga disaster. At that stage of course they were the most successful football club in Italy. I know they won the Title again once more in the 70s but - unlike Man United after Munich - they never recaptured their prestige, their status or their competitiveness. They seem to be constantly fighting relegation and playing in front of paltry crowds. They share a city with Juventus of course, but other big cities in Italy (and Europe) often host two great clubs. Not Turin though. Not anymore. Any theories?
It's an interesting one, for sure. I think really, when you look at Torino's history, I think you could look at them more like a City to Utd or an Everton to us, sharing a city but massively in their shadow (barring oil takeover like City).

Of course, the Agnelli's bought Juve in the 20s, so it's not like they suddenly started injecting money (they did this big time in the 50s and 60s before increasing that spending astronomically in the 70s and 80s through to the modern era) but they've always been a bigger draw, and honestly, in the last 30 years, the Seven Sisters (Juve, Milan, Inter, Parma, Roma, Fiorentina and Lazio have all been bigger draws, leaving Torino to battle with the smaller Italian clubs for players - Napoli, Atalanta, Udinese and Genoa have all at times also represented a better move for players) have had the pick of players in Italy and bringing stars from abroad into the league.

Because of the above, they've then struggled to attract talent consistently - look at Torino's teams since their last great one, and it's often some two or three good players on their way to bigger things, surrounded by journeymen. That trauma from Superga can't be dimished either, and that it links to their glory days seems to indelibly stain all happy memories of what Torino once were - they are very much pre and post disaster as far as their history goes. These days, they have a fervent support but struggle to even get 20,000 through the gate. As such, the support and the money isn't really their to make them great again and they're not massively commercially viable either, compared to their neighbours or the other big Italian clubs. They had that magnificent Scudetto in the 70s alongside some impressive placings, but the team declined as more foreign stars reinforced the teams around them and after a promising start to the 90s, they were soon in Serie B and insolvent. They recovered back to Serie A and even Europe but were being relegated again in the early 2000s (maybe 2004?) and then upon reemergence were denied reentry to Serie A due to bankruptcy.

Essentially, I wouldn't say they were ever big or rich enough to be able to preserve things when they did have a great team. They have been to the Europa League a few times since the turn of the century, but financial mismanagement, nutter owners, poor squad decisions and waning interest in the team from locals (imagine young fans in Turin choosing who to support in the late 90s through to present day from their city) all combined to make them one of those sides who have past glories that may never be repeated. The Italian media also has it out for them - the typical hard left-leaning sensibilities of the fanbase (they've been known to fly Cuba flags) has meant that they've been an easy target for the Italian media and a lot of Northern and Southern sides now dislike Torino as a result. They're seen as anti-establishment, but the wrong sort of anti-establishment - they've had links to hardline Basque separatist groups like ETA and have at times been painted as a near-terrorist organisation in the more frenzied Italian magazines.   

Look at their record fees - they've never exceeded Ł16m for a transfer (Simone Verdi, where they paid I think roughly Ł2m for a loan, then Ł12m further structured over 4 seasons of his contract) and where they have 'splached out' by their standards, it's been for younger players with resale value to fatten them up for sale (Immobile, Niang etc). They have massive squad churn every year nearly and every time they have an exciting property - they're sold. Zappacosta, Maksimovic, Immobile, Darmian, Niang, Ogbonna, Bonfazi, Glik, Benassi etc the list goes on. All decent level players sold either prematurely or for average fees. They don't know how to do a deal and they reinvest poorly too. Barring Zappacosta I think you have to go back to the great Gigi Lentini in the early 90s to pick out the last time you'd say Torino did brilliantly fee-wise on a sale.

As with many clubs malaise, it's a cocktail of legacy issues and longstanding problems with a lack of financial muscle that has held them back and means that at present, they'd likely snap your hand off to just stay in Serie A this season. It's sad because in my eyes they're properly iconic, but Il Grande Torino seem no more. Their own City doesn't seem to love them, most of Italy dislikes them (other than when it comes to the Derby v Juve) and Cairo doesn't seem to be the ideal owner at present.
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Re: Serie A
« Reply #2325 on: March 15, 2021, 01:01:37 pm »
What a fantastic answer. I learnt a lot from that. Much appreciated.

I'd always assumed that Torino were traditionally the bigger club in the city and that Juventus drew their support from all over Italy. I'd no idea at all that they were unpopular because of their 'anti-establishment' reputation.

There are other great clubs in European football who seem in permanent eclipse of course. St Etienne is an obvious one for us Reds. Nottingham Forest over here. Even BMG to an extent. But Torino appear to stand out alone in my mind. They seem to be a special case. Hadn't they won the Italian Title seven times in a row before they were annihilated in the plane crash? Didn't they supply all eleven players for the national team? You'd have thought it would be a matter of national honour in Italian football to restore them to at least a semblance of their greatness. Instead of which they yo-yo between Series A and B with average attendances below 20,000. 
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Offline Drinks Sangria

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Re: Serie A
« Reply #2326 on: March 15, 2021, 01:24:44 pm »
No problem - love Italian Football History so I could talk about it all day.

It's a sad state of affairs, no doubt, but unfortunately there is no national appetite to help Torino in any form.

Interesting point on Turin - I think nowadays you'd argue that Juve are the City's club, but that wasn't always the case pre-Superga. Now though, Juve get more than double Torino's attendance, but it's worth saying despite the availability, Turin isn't in love with football in the same way Rome or Milan is, and certainly not like Naples.

Juve couldn't fill Delle Alpi even with Zidane, Davids, Del Piero etc in the side and whilst they fill their stadium now, that was based on the conscious choice to downsize - their current stadium holds little over 40k and as much as 5,000 of that is considered to be football tourists, non-partisan people their as a one off rather than regular fans. Often, they don't even quite fill their 40,000. Imagine being able to show up at Anfield on the day in the modern era and just pick up tickets - for any match. Juve only sell out if it's decent opposition on a weekend. Coppa Italia, second-rate Serie A opposition? They will get less than 35k. Despite star attractions such as Ronaldo. The Delle Alpi was an awful, ugly concrete bowl that there's little appetite to rehash or return to- and whilst the move has been seen as a success, they are basically the only club in Europe of their size to reduce their stadium size rather than looking to increase capacity. Milan is only 80 miles away, with 1.3 million inhabitants to Turin's 800k, with a much bigger conurbation also. Realistically, Juve are a side that have outgrown their actual physical location, in terms of fan reach and local footprint. The City really probably isn't big enough to fanatically support two big teams at present, which is why Torino have become the butt of it all.

Like you say, Juve is like 90s/00s Man Utd in that they have a lot of fans spread out over the country due to their wealth, success and reach. As such, they don't have a dedicated heart of mass support in their own city, which even clubs like Utd actually can attest to.
“Seeing these smiling faces is the greatest pleasure. They have been magnificent all season. They have been our 12th man. I have always said our fans are the best in England. Now I know they are the best in Europe too.” Rafa Benitez

Offline DanJay87

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Re: Serie A
« Reply #2327 on: March 15, 2021, 04:17:20 pm »
Juve couldn't fill Delle Alpi even with Zidane, Davids, Del Piero etc in the side and whilst they fill their stadium now, that was based on the conscious choice to downsize - their current stadium holds little over 40k and as much as 5,000 of that is considered to be football tourists, non-partisan people their as a one off rather than regular fans. Often, they don't even quite fill their 40,000. Imagine being able to show up at Anfield on the day in the modern era and just pick up tickets - for any match. Juve only sell out if it's decent opposition on a weekend. Coppa Italia, second-rate Serie A opposition? They will get less than 35k. Despite star attractions such as Ronaldo. The Delle Alpi was an awful, ugly concrete bowl that there's little appetite to rehash or return to- and whilst the move has been seen as a success, they are basically the only club in Europe of their size to reduce their stadium size rather than looking to increase capacity. Milan is only 80 miles away, with 1.3 million inhabitants to Turin's 800k, with a much bigger conurbation also. Realistically, Juve are a side that have outgrown their actual physical location, in terms of fan reach and local footprint. The City really probably isn't big enough to fanatically support two big teams at present, which is why Torino have become the butt of it all.

Mad how many fans they have all over Italy though. Hard for those outside Italy to really understand it. Crazy to think a club from an alpine city are by far the most supported team in the south. It's even argued that Juve are Milan's second club. I remember them playing a few home games at a sold out San Siro in the 90s while they couldn't fill the Alpi.

Offline Dave McCoy

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Re: Serie A
« Reply #2328 on: March 15, 2021, 04:25:51 pm »
Kessie a good midfielder?  Just goes to show how when it comes to midfielders it's all in the eye of the beholder.  Think he looks good as he is mobile so shows a lot on the screen but he basically accomplishes nothing out there.

Offline Drinks Sangria

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Re: Serie A
« Reply #2329 on: March 15, 2021, 04:39:33 pm »
Mad how many fans they have all over Italy though. Hard for those outside Italy to really understand it. Crazy to think a club from an alpine city are by far the most supported team in the south. It's even argued that Juve are Milan's second club. I remember them playing a few home games at a sold out San Siro in the 90s while they couldn't fill the Alpi.
Looking at some of the stuff I've seen, Juve actually have a lot of season ticket holders for the more expensive seats coming from the Milan suburbs - possibly why they struggle to fill the stadium midweek or for cup games. It is nuts, but I think most in the UK would understand given the amount of Man Utd fans at all corners of the country.

You're dead right though, I suppose in a way given the cultural divide between the North and South, the historical iniquities and the downright animosity, it's strange to see so many Southerners supporting a seat of power in Alpine Turin - a city that clearly doesn't massively value it's football in the way say a Naples does.

Kessie a good midfielder?  Just goes to show how when it comes to midfielders it's all in the eye of the beholder.  Think he looks good as he is mobile so shows a lot on the screen but he basically accomplishes nothing out there.
Bit harsh? Perhaps he was more show than product in past years, but he's recently turned 24, so still young and already has 11 combined G+A from 26 domestic starts this season - I'd say that's extremely productive for a box to box midfielder that is not an 8 or 10.
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Re: Serie A
« Reply #2330 on: March 15, 2021, 04:47:19 pm »
You're dead right though, I suppose in a way given the cultural divide between the North and South, the historical iniquities and the downright animosity, it's strange to see so many Southerners supporting a seat of power in Alpine Turin - a city that clearly doesn't massively value it's football in the way say a Naples does.

A theory I heard is during the economic boom of the fifties+, huge swathes of southerners migrated to the northern manufacturing hubs (Agnelli's Fiat in Turin being the prime example), this coincided with the Agnelli's Juve being heavily invested in and sweeping all before them. Juve became the 'company' team.

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Re: Serie A
« Reply #2331 on: March 15, 2021, 04:50:13 pm »
Bit harsh? Perhaps he was more show than product in past years, but he's recently turned 24, so still young and already has 11 combined G+A from 26 domestic starts this season - I'd say that's extremely productive for a box to box midfielder that is not an 8 or 10.

He's the penalty taker.  8 of his 9 league goals are from the spot.  He doesn't shoot, he doesn't win the ball, he doesn't pass the ball aggressively, he doesn't assist others shots.  I would hazard you could sit him for any other Milan midfielder and assuming someone else could take PK's just as well you wouldn't have any noticeable difference.  If we were credibly linked with him for anything over Ł15m I would think Edwards has finally lost it.

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Re: Serie A
« Reply #2332 on: March 15, 2021, 11:22:22 pm »
Looking at some of the stuff I've seen, Juve actually have a lot of season ticket holders for the more expensive seats coming from the Milan suburbs - possibly why they struggle to fill the stadium midweek or for cup games. It is nuts, but I think most in the UK would understand given the amount of Man Utd fans at all corners of the country.
I really couldn’t get my head around this when I was living in Milan. A city with two of Europe’s top ten clubs and huge portion of the population support Juve, it’s insane.
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Offline Roopy

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Re: Serie A
« Reply #2333 on: March 16, 2021, 02:02:25 am »
No problem - love Italian Football History so I could talk about it all day.

The Delle Alpi was an awful, ugly concrete bowl that there's little appetite to rehash or return to- and whilst the move has been seen as a success, they are basically the only club in Europe of their size to reduce their stadium size rather than looking to increase capacity. Milan is only 80 miles away, with 1.3 million inhabitants to Turin's 800k, with a much bigger conurbation also. Realistically, Juve are a side that have outgrown their actual physical location, in terms of fan reach and local footprint. The City really probably isn't big enough to fanatically support two big teams at present, which is why Torino have become the butt of it all.

Like you say, Juve is like 90s/00s Man Utd in that they have a lot of fans spread out over the country due to their wealth, success and reach. As such, they don't have a dedicated heart of mass support in their own city, which even clubs like Utd actually can attest to.

The other thing to take into consideration with the decision to make their stadium 40k capacity is that all Serie A matches are show live on TV in Italy.

If the broadcasting was limited, similar to England, then fans would be more inclined to go to the stadium and so they would have built larger.

And yes, Juventus fans are spread all over Italy.

They are a constant in all my travels across the country - originally a Southern club until they relocated up north, and they never seemed to lose that fan base.

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Re: Serie A
« Reply #2334 on: March 17, 2021, 11:24:08 am »
When you look at the Serie A table, the team that depresses me most is Fiorentina - one of the Seven Sisters, a storied, historic club with a grand legacy of brilliant players, now with a below average squad, no real hint of investment or of much hope for the future. They could have a Torino-like season soon if they don't arrest this mediocrity.

They've a few to keep an eye on - Vlahovic, Milenkovic, Dragowski - but by and large that is a lacklustre, journeyman-packed squad. They're third top scorer is a centre half and only one player in their squad has more than 5 goals. Chiesa, who played one game for them before his move to Juve, is their 5th highest goalscorer and 5th highest assister this season with 1 in each.

Vlahovic will be poached in the summer - top scorer with 12, though that was pumped up by a hat-trick this weekend against woeful opposition - and then I'm not sure where they go. Milenkovic will leave too, for sure.
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Re: Serie A
« Reply #2335 on: March 17, 2021, 11:50:39 am »
The other thing to take into consideration with the decision to make their stadium 40k capacity is that all Serie A matches are show live on TV in Italy.

If the broadcasting was limited, similar to England, then fans would be more inclined to go to the stadium and so they would have built larger.

And yes, Juventus fans are spread all over Italy.

They are a constant in all my travels across the country - originally a Southern club until they relocated up north, and they never seemed to lose that fan base.


Didn't Juventus's pitifully low attendances pre-date live TV transmission? In England, also, live TV transmission doesn't affect the gate. I suspect ticket prices are still relatively low in Italy too.

The Juve phenomenon is very interesting. The decision of a top European club choosing to reduce the capacity of its stadium in this day and age is remarkable. And the club's enormous appeal in Milan is especially curious (I too remember them filling out the San Siro when they were struggling to reach 20,000 in Turin). The comparisons with Man United or us are far off the mark of course. Both us and the Mancs have more meaning, and more pulling power, in their home cities than probably any other club in England. I doubt there is anything in English football which remotely resembles the apparent apathy of Turin.

Is there another sport in the city? Traditionally big cities in England like Bradford and Bristol have four football clubs between them, but none has ever achieved anything or developed a mass following.  That must be something to do with the popularity of Rugby in both cities - League in Bradford and the posh code in Bristol.
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Re: Serie A
« Reply #2336 on: March 17, 2021, 12:24:14 pm »
Didn't Juventus's pitifully low attendances pre-date live TV transmission? In England, also, live TV transmission doesn't affect the gate. I suspect ticket prices are still relatively low in Italy too.

The Juve phenomenon is very interesting. The decision of a top European club choosing to reduce the capacity of its stadium in this day and age is remarkable. And the club's enormous appeal in Milan is especially curious (I too remember them filling out the San Siro when they were struggling to reach 20,000 in Turin). The comparisons with Man United or us are far off the mark of course. Both us and the Mancs have more meaning, and more pulling power, in their home cities than probably any other club in England. I doubt there is anything in English football which remotely resembles the apparent apathy of Turin.

Is there another sport in the city? Traditionally big cities in England like Bradford and Bristol have four football clubs between them, but none has ever achieved anything or developed a mass following.  That must be something to do with the popularity of Rugby in both cities - League in Bradford and the posh code in Bristol.
It's very odd - football is the main sport in Turin and there's no other (that I can find) events or mass-participation spectacles that would naturally detract from the football - like you say this is incomparable to Liverpool or Utd, who could, availability willing, fill their stadiums every week purely with local sales. Juventus likely could up sticks and move to Milan and get better attendance.

And yes, Juventus have naturally had low attendances historically (though certain periods at the Communale where they used to get 70k - so the support was there locally at a time). It's a bit of a curate's egg situation, because absolutely no club of their size, that's as well supported as them, is unable to translate that to numbers in the stadium. It's also worth noting that whilst Turin is one of the wealthiest cities in Italy, Juve's ticket prices are notoriously high.

In 2006, Juventus had to give away 26,000 tickets to a Champions League knockout match against Werder Bremen, and they still didn't fill the stadium. The Delle Alpi's problems and the local dislike for what is seen as a sporting albatross built for the 1990 World Cup has translated into disdain for attendance and prompted the rethink and move to the current home. I've been told the Delle Alpi was a nightmare to get to, easy to be stranded at after night matches due to unreliable public transport and with terrible views once inside, due to the distance of the pitch caused by the parapets, small pitched roofs and running track.

Juventus are the club of the armchair fan in Italy - they have more individual Sky season ticket subscribers than any other Italian club by some considerable distance - but this diaspora of fans is seemingly their blanket against detractors who criticise their inability to draw match goers. You actually see Juve post really good away support at most grounds - the theory being that they are Juve-supporting locals.

I have no real answer other than it's a combination of all factors that we've discussed. I just know that Liverpool and Manchester - aside from their terrific local support, would fill the stadium with willing travellers from the corners of the UK and Europe even if local fans couldn't attend.
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Re: Serie A
« Reply #2337 on: March 17, 2021, 12:30:45 pm »
When you look at the Serie A table, the team that depresses me most is Fiorentina - one of the Seven Sisters, a storied, historic club with a grand legacy of brilliant players, now with a below average squad, no real hint of investment or of much hope for the future. They could have a Torino-like season soon if they don't arrest this mediocrity.

They've a few to keep an eye on - Vlahovic, Milenkovic, Dragowski - but by and large that is a lacklustre, journeyman-packed squad. They're third top scorer is a centre half and only one player in their squad has more than 5 goals. Chiesa, who played one game for them before his move to Juve, is their 5th highest goalscorer and 5th highest assister this season with 1 in each.

Vlahovic will be poached in the summer - top scorer with 12, though that was pumped up by a hat-trick this weekend against woeful opposition - and then I'm not sure where they go. Milenkovic will leave too, for sure.

Fiorentina went bankrupt completely in the early 2000s. They went from insolvency to knocking us out the CL in a short period of time. And were also a penalty kick away from a UEFA Cup final the year before. Since then they've been going through the motions.

The fact they've done nothing with their stadium for so long has kept these clubs down as well. That was the game changer for Juve. A modern ground which they owned, rather than a dilapidated council owned athletics track.
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Re: Serie A
« Reply #2338 on: March 17, 2021, 12:45:57 pm »
It's very odd - football is the main sport in Turin and there's no other (that I can find) events or mass-participation spectacles that would naturally detract from the football - like you say this is incomparable to Liverpool or Utd, who could, availability willing, fill their stadiums every week purely with local sales. Juventus likely could up sticks and move to Milan and get better attendance.

And yes, Juventus have naturally had low attendances historically (though certain periods at the Communale where they used to get 70k - so the support was there locally at a time). It's a bit of a curate's egg situation, because absolutely no club of their size, that's as well supported as them, is unable to translate that to numbers in the stadium. It's also worth noting that whilst Turin is one of the wealthiest cities in Italy, Juve's ticket prices are notoriously high.

In 2006, Juventus had to give away 26,000 tickets to a Champions League knockout match against Werder Bremen, and they still didn't fill the stadium. The Delle Alpi's problems and the local dislike for what is seen as a sporting albatross built for the 1990 World Cup has translated into disdain for attendance and prompted the rethink and move to the current home. I've been told the Delle Alpi was a nightmare to get to, easy to be stranded at after night matches due to unreliable public transport and with terrible views once inside, due to the distance of the pitch caused by the parapets, small pitched roofs and running track.

Juventus are the club of the armchair fan in Italy - they have more individual Sky season ticket subscribers than any other Italian club by some considerable distance - but this diaspora of fans is seemingly their blanket against detractors who criticise their inability to draw match goers. You actually see Juve post really good away support at most grounds - the theory being that they are Juve-supporting locals.

I have no real answer other than it's a combination of all factors that we've discussed. I just know that Liverpool and Manchester - aside from their terrific local support, would fill the stadium with willing travellers from the corners of the UK and Europe even if local fans couldn't attend.

What are they like on the road in domestic competition? Do you know?
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Re: Serie A
« Reply #2339 on: March 17, 2021, 01:14:14 pm »
What are they like on the road in domestic competition? Do you know?
Domestic cup attendances in Italy are generally pitiful regardless of the team playing unless it’s the final. I do however remember fearing for my life when I was in the Juventus end for the coppa Italia final with Lazio circa 2004. Their were turning on eachother when they went 2-0 down and it got very violent.
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Re: Serie A
« Reply #2340 on: March 17, 2021, 01:32:09 pm »
Domestic cup attendances in Italy are generally pitiful regardless of the team playing unless it’s the final. I do however remember fearing for my life when I was in the Juventus end for the coppa Italia final with Lazio circa 2004. Their were turning on eachother when they went 2-0 down and it got very violent.

North v South? It wouldn't be surprising to learn that the national allegiance to Juve was made of thin material and easily torn when things got stressful.
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Re: Serie A
« Reply #2341 on: March 17, 2021, 01:50:24 pm »
What are they like on the road in domestic competition? Do you know?
For cup matches, dreadful, as is the issue with the Coppa Italia in general. They always fill their allocation usually for league matches against top half teams and always bring a semblance of support even to the weaker sides.

'Aways' don't have the same culture in Italy as they do in the UK it seems.

Fiorentina went bankrupt completely in the early 2000s. They went from insolvency to knocking us out the CL in a short period of time. And were also a penalty kick away from a UEFA Cup final the year before. Since then they've been going through the motions.

The fact they've done nothing with their stadium for so long has kept these clubs down as well. That was the game changer for Juve. A modern ground which they owned, rather than a dilapidated council owned athletics track.
I remember all to well, Di Livio was the only player to stay on when they were reborn in Serie C2, whilst still a full Italian international! He stayed with them through the rise up the divisions and finally retired after they successfully stayed in Serie A in 2005, aged 38. A true legend of La Viola. He won Serie C2 twice in his career, once in 1987 with Perugia, then again with Fiorentina 2003! I suppose having won it all with Juve in the 90s, it wasn't like he was risking retiring with no trophies with such a show of loyalty. Easy to forget that in the space of 12 months, Fiorentina lost Batistuta, Rui Costa, Nuno Gomes, Morfeo, Adriano, Toldo, Adani, Morretti, Chiesa, Mijatovic, Baronio, Gonzalez etc - the first three even before the relegation. Mad times.

Cecchi Gori was famine and feast, a real nutter from an era with quite a few of them kicking about Italian football.

It is difficult, I think last I heard less than 6 top-flight Italian teams owned their own stadiums.
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Re: Serie A
« Reply #2342 on: March 17, 2021, 04:02:36 pm »
North v South? It wouldn't be surprising to learn that the national allegiance to Juve was made of thin material and easily torn when things got stressful.
Absolutely. Italy is still a relatively divided country on a range of issues, especially on north/south lines and mixing i paesani with the more sophisticated northerners in an environment like a football ground is asking for trouble, particularly when the only thing they have in common is Juve.
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Re: Serie A
« Reply #2343 on: March 21, 2021, 04:36:21 pm »
Pirlo won't be there much longer at this rate.

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Re: Serie A
« Reply #2344 on: March 21, 2021, 05:22:29 pm »
Really baffling for Italia 90 that they decided to build stadiums with running tracks, it's not like Italy is World renowned for Athletics.

I think San Siro and Sampdoria stadiums were the only ones that World that didn't have a running track, no surprise they were the best Stadiums that Tournament.

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Re: Serie A
« Reply #2345 on: March 21, 2021, 05:29:26 pm »
Wow Juve might actually possibly not win the scudetto this season.

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Re: Serie A
« Reply #2346 on: March 21, 2021, 06:54:40 pm »
Really baffling for Italia 90 that they decided to build stadiums with running tracks, it's not like Italy is World renowned for Athletics.

I think San Siro and Sampdoria stadiums were the only ones that World that didn't have a running track, no surprise they were the best Stadiums that Tournament.
Bari being the most ridiculous example. Now in the third tier, playing in a 60000 seater stadium. Average attendance is around 12000 I think. Horrible ground yet the third biggest in Italy.
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Re: Serie A
« Reply #2347 on: March 21, 2021, 07:53:44 pm »

I want a set of these playing cards.    8)

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Re: Serie A
« Reply #2348 on: March 22, 2021, 11:23:36 am »
I have soft spots for both Fiorentina and Milan and it was a good game this weekend. Milan showed some mental fortitude for once. Or just pure mental weakness from one of the worst Fiorentina sides in recent memory.

They've closed the gap for now, though Inter have that crucial game in hand that could stretch the lead to 9 points once more. Fun to see Juve losing at home to Benevento, feels like, in a similar but far less disastrous way than Barca, their chickens are coming home to roost due to the arrogant way they've conducted themselves with other clubs and transfers the last few years.

Never liked Juve. Probably all the Moggi and Calciopoli stuff.
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Re: Serie A
« Reply #2349 on: March 22, 2021, 05:52:49 pm »

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Re: Serie A
« Reply #2350 on: March 22, 2021, 06:37:14 pm »
I have soft spots for both Fiorentina and Milan and it was a good game this weekend. Milan showed some mental fortitude for once. Or just pure mental weakness from one of the worst Fiorentina sides in recent memory.

They've closed the gap for now, though Inter have that crucial game in hand that could stretch the lead to 9 points once more. Fun to see Juve losing at home to Benevento, feels like, in a similar but far less disastrous way than Barca, their chickens are coming home to roost due to the arrogant way they've conducted themselves with other clubs and transfers the last few years.

Never liked Juve. Probably all the Moggi and Calciopoli stuff.

It was a really fun game to watch. Love watching Kessie, he is a one man midfield at times. Top 4 race is heating up and Juve are right in it. Pirlo will stay for another season if they make top4 and think they will simply due to the quality of the squad. They want a long term project with a different style of play, so it will be really stupid to abandon it after one bad season. New signings like Chiesa, McKennie and Kulusevski have done well.

I still hope Inter fuck up just to see Conte meltdown, but its unlikely due to the form of Lukaku and Martinez.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2021, 06:39:39 pm by CalgarianRed »
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Re: Serie A
« Reply #2351 on: March 23, 2021, 12:08:33 am »
It was a really fun game to watch. Love watching Kessie, he is a one man midfield at times. Top 4 race is heating up and Juve are right in it. Pirlo will stay for another season if they make top4 and think they will simply due to the quality of the squad. They want a long term project with a different style of play, so it will be really stupid to abandon it after one bad season. New signings like Chiesa, McKennie and Kulusevski have done well.

I still hope Inter fuck up just to see Conte meltdown, but its unlikely due to the form of Lukaku and Martinez.

The problem is if Inter fuck up, it becomes very very likely (as AC Milan are not strong enough to really get top spot but should get a top 4 spot) than Juve win, and I hate their team and Ronaldo etc far more than I hate any other team outside of Utd/Chelsea/City (and maybe Real?)

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Re: Serie A
« Reply #2352 on: March 23, 2021, 12:47:51 am »
Unless Suning can find a buyer for Inter willing to pay €900m for a club losing €100m a year then they better win it this year.  Figure the team will get broken up to some extent and probably not as good.

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Re: Serie A
« Reply #2353 on: March 23, 2021, 10:48:58 am »
Unless Suning can find a buyer for Inter willing to pay €900m for a club losing €100m a year then they better win it this year.  Figure the team will get broken up to some extent and probably not as good.
They've come out saying Inter won't be affected but I think we all know that to be nonsense. They literally shut down operations with Jiangsu and released the entire squad. This isn't the work of a company who then wants to back a loss-making foreign entity in an area that has massively declined in domestic prestige in the Chinese market due to the government's new stance on it.

Like you say, it's now or never. They need to win the league to fatten up for sale and have the guaranteed CL spot to make sure they keep enough of the squad together. Would take a fair few of their squad at LFC in a heartbeat (Lautaro, Hakimi, Bastoni etc).

It was a really fun game to watch. Love watching Kessie, he is a one man midfield at times. Top 4 race is heating up and Juve are right in it. Pirlo will stay for another season if they make top4 and think they will simply due to the quality of the squad. They want a long term project with a different style of play, so it will be really stupid to abandon it after one bad season. New signings like Chiesa, McKennie and Kulusevski have done well.

I still hope Inter fuck up just to see Conte meltdown, but its unlikely due to the form of Lukaku and Martinez.
Chiesa has been very good - he, along with Van De Beek were players I think could've been repurposed to be Firmino replacements.
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Re: Serie A
« Reply #2354 on: March 23, 2021, 05:45:57 pm »
Quote
LETTER FROM CESARE PRANDELLI
23 March 2021
Florence, 23 March 2021.

This is the second time I’ve left Fiorentina. The first time was not my decision, but this time it is. In life, as well as the good times, there are also dark moments which can get on top of you.

I have been going through a period of profound distress which is preventing me from being  who I really am. I began this experience with joy and love, spurred on by the enthusiasm of the new owners. It’s likely that that my love for the city, and the memories of the great moments I’ve experienced here, made me blind to the early signs that something wasn’t right inside.

My decision has been guided by the enormous responsibility I have towards the players, the club and – last but certainly not least – to the Fiorentina fans, for whom I have great respect.

All players at this level have talent, and when you have talent you are perceptive – I wouldn’t want my distress to be picked up and affect the team’s performances.

Over the past few months, a dark cloud has developed inside of me, changing the way I see things. I came here to give 100%, but I now feel that this is no longer possible and therefore I have decided to step back for the good of everyone involved.

I’d like to thank Rocco Commisso and his wonderful family, Joe Barone and Daniele Prade, who have always been right behind the team and me. Most of all, though, I want to thank the people of Florence, who I know will understand.

I’m aware that this could be the end of my career as a coach, but I have no regrets and don’t wish to have any. The world I’ve been a part of for my whole life probably isn’t right for me anymore – I no longer see myself in it. I’ve certainly changed, but the world is moving faster than I thought too. That’s why I believe the time has come for me to stop being swept along, stop for a while and rediscover my true self once again.

Cesare Prandelli

https://www.acffiorentina.com/en/news/all/extra/2021-03-23/letter-from-cesare-prandelli
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Re: Serie A
« Reply #2355 on: March 23, 2021, 05:56:10 pm »
Not sure I've ever read a managers statement similar to that.  Hopefully he's ok.

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Re: Serie A
« Reply #2356 on: March 23, 2021, 07:40:09 pm »
Yes, it would seem there’s a mental health element to it, based on the imagery and language used. Hopefully he seeks help and can get the attention and assistance he needs to make sure he can at least live contentedly, whether he returns to management or not.
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Re: Serie A
« Reply #2357 on: March 23, 2021, 09:35:10 pm »
https://www.acffiorentina.com/en/news/all/extra/2021-03-23/letter-from-cesare-prandelli
So so sad. He’s dealt with a personal tragedy before which many would struggle to emerge from. Clearly very troubled, I hope he’s getting the support he needs.
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Re: Serie A
« Reply #2358 on: March 23, 2021, 09:55:04 pm »
Prandelli is one of the good guys in football. Hope he sees through it and returns someday.

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Re: Serie A
« Reply #2359 on: March 30, 2021, 12:25:31 pm »
So Inter have unveiled their new logo and it doesn't look great. Can't unsee the spelling of tit too which makes it even worse.

https://www.inter.it/en/news/2021/03/30/new-logo-inter.html