Topic: Klopp's Second Season - What constitutes a good 16/17 season in your view?

[RedKenWah]

In the Champions League - half a tick (given we have a qualifying game to negotiate)...

That constitutes to a good season in my book. Now that we are (hopefully) in the competition we want to be in, we need to make a real show of it, no more surrendering, no more weakened sides against Real Madrids away from home to focus on the league. Fully going for it in both competitions, or in fact all competitions next season, that's what we need.

[jepovic]

Good season, great progress. One shouldn't forget that the previous PL season was unusually weak, with ManU and Chelsea struggling enormously.

What makes me optimistic:
1) We have a lot of relatively young players who should get better, unlike several of our competitors.
2) The signings from last summer really improved us. This shows that the scouting seems to work again, which it hasn't since Rafa left. Now we can recruit players as a CL team and with a bigger budget, but without proper scouting money is worthless.

[Mighty_Red]

It's funny how 3 goals in less than 10 minutes of play can not only change a match but change how you view an entire season. I distinctly remember something similar happening a few years ago

I'm sure we will delve deeper into a proper analysis of the season in the days and weeks to come but as far as this thread is concerned, the primary objective was progress and CL qualification and we achieved that objective.

I do think however that the season has to be looked at in context when making an assessment of how we fared. Make no mistake, making 4th place was crucial to our development both mentally  as well as financially. We exceeded all expectations for the first 19 games, but we very nearly fucked everything up. Losing our last remaining target for the season would've been soul destroying. The progression in terms of points and goals would've counted for little.

Had we always hovered around 4th or 5th and ended up 5th then there would've been disappointment but nowhere near the anguish of being right up there and losing it at the death.

Instead, we can look forward positively, and look to eradicate our weaknesses with a good base. We achieved 76 points with very little depth to the squad, fix that and we have lots of room to improve.

[RedForeverTT]

I think apart from being able to get into Champions League, one other thing I was really pleased was seeing Anfield filled to the brim on match days. You cannot say the same for other clubs.

Match day tickets are in demand because we have more fans than Anfield seats. We play exciting football (most days) and fans and even non-fans want that.

I think another posters also put on the forum the number of LFC matches that was shown 'live' and that says a lot of our global appeal. We are ahead of all clubs bar 2.

All in all, this points to an upward trend in terms of club revenue and I think if we can sustain this performance for another 2 more seasons, it will start to show on our balance sheet.

On another note, I find the expansion to our main stand very petty and we should be looking upwards of 10,000 seats expansion if we are serious.

[koptommy93]

75 points is the highest total ever to finish 5th I believe. I know it's only a qualifier and whatever but making top four in this of all seasons is not something to be understating.

[Carlito Roberto]

Overall a fantastic season, huge progress made from last season. Yes it would have been nice to win one of the cups but to get back in the Champions League was the primary aim and we've achieved it.

[Redcap]

76 points is comfortably 3rd most seasons, so quite happy with the points total.

The squad is definitely massively lacking in depth, and I think we'll need to buy very well to get where we want to go. 76 points won't be as easy to achieve next season, fighting on two fronts.

[TheMightyReds]

Considering the net spend this year and the injuries/loss of Mane we have done well to finish on 76pts. That would be 2nd or 3rd on most seasons.

3-4 first team players, and more steel, pace added to team will help.

Also need to kill teams in the bottom half smarter. Entice them out etc.

[gray19lfc]

Just saw a great Tweet...

Games 1-19. 2.26ppg (86pts)
Games 20-26. 0.85ppg (33pts)
Games 27-38. 2.25ppg (86pts)

Games 20-26?

Sunderland away 2-2
United away 1-1
Swansea home 2-3
Chelsea home 1-1
Hull away 2-0
Spurs home 2-0
Leicester away 3-1

For 31 games we showed league title challenging form.  January and February ruined it.

[theMilkman]

We'd have needed 50 points from the last 19 games (i.e. dropped just 7 points in half a season) to equal Chelsea's points total.

If we'd replicated our 1st half of the season results for the 2nd half of the season then we'd have come 3rd (on GD).

I've seen a few people state they are disappointed with the season or looking back think we could have achieved more. We got 33 points in the last 19 games. So obviously we could have done better. Realistically though we would have need to have been out of this world to finish top. We'd have had to be very, very good to get 2nd. We probably should/could have come 3rd. The difference between 3rd and 4th is tangible if you win the CL play off.

We should have done better in the cups. Southampton was a big opportunity missed. FA Cup we should have gone further.

There's a very mild sense of regret that is washed away by the positive results over the last 2-3 months and the knowledge that we have CL football to attract players but also to look forward to watching next season.

People giving the season a score 5/10. Fuck me.

Yeah, I think we would've needed to spend some silly money in january to get to the title ahead of chelsea. In the grand scheme of things going forward we got exactly what we set out for at the start of the season, give or take a qualifier. But i think putting too much of a gloss on it and not paying close enough attention to that absolutely miserable run of form in january and february when we pretty much knew our thin squad was going to be put to the test and yet did nothing about it, would be a bit lazy. We pretty much looked at the squad, looked at the fixtures and bet that we'd be able to cope and while ultimately we were right- it was very very close, way to close for comfort. The season isn't a marathon- marathons don't have intervals and there's no option to give yourself an energy boost. It's a lot more like two races.

My criticism isn't that we didn't try harder to win the league; I don't think we could've without Chelsea suffering a dip in form at some point (and we know that didn't happen). It's that we took a risk with our squad size, and some questionable team selections and tactics, that BARELY paid off. It really shouldn't have been that close. Even if all we did was buy a centreback in January, would we have beaten Crystal Palace and Swansea at home? Klopp gets a lot of credit for doing a lot of things very very right, but a few things could've been a lot better. Having the best record against the top 6, this top 6 as well, is nothing to scoff at.

But at the other end there's questions like:
Were we a Mane injury in the first half of the season away from getting 33 points int he first half of the season as well?
How the hell did we fail to score a single goal against Southampton in 6 bloody hours of football?
Why in God's green earth were we so slow to get going against Leicester?


There are some big issues we need to sort out over the summer if we're going to compete for the League and make it to the latter stages of the CL. I'd rate the first half of the season a 9 and the second half a 5- so a 7 overall.

[kcbworth]

For 31 games we showed league title challenging form.  January and February ruined it.

I think the only real black mark on the season for me is how ill prepared we were for Mane's absence, given we knew he was going to be away. Of course the Coutinho injury and Henderson/Lallana absences only compounded this, but we likely could have prepared better all the same.

That said, this is more of a reflection of how influential Mane as our POTY was, which in the bigger scheme of things is massive!

[Jookie]

Just saw a great Tweet...

Games 1-19. 2.26ppg (86pts)
Games 20-26. 0.85ppg (33pts)
Games 27-38. 2.25ppg (86pts)

Games 20-26?

Sunderland away 2-2
United away 1-1
Swansea home 2-3
Chelsea home 1-1
Hull away 2-0
Spurs home 2-0
Leicester away 3-1

For 31 games we showed league title challenging form.  January and February ruined it.

Draw at United, draw at home to Chelsea and a win at home to Spurs aren't that bad results in isolation. It boils down to 4 bad results. Sunderland, Swansea, Hull and Leicester. I think the Sunderland and Swansea games killed out momentum. Should have won both and the United and and Chelsea draws sandwiched in between would have looked perfectly acceptable.

Those 4 poor results in January/February gave us 1 point when you'd be looking for 10 points. You add those 9 points on to our total and we are 3rd easily. We are still 8 points behind Chelsea though. That's still a fair bit behind Chelsea and we'd have still not been in a title challenge. Those extra 9 points would have just maintained our form from pre-Jan and post-Feb throughout the season.

The other thing to say about those 4 games- Sadio Mane played in 3 of them. For me, it was the goals conceded in these games and the poor defending that killed us. You can't expect to concede 10 goals in those games and still get 10-12 points. Its the period of our season where the CB partnership chopped and changed a fair amount. We played quite a few of those games with Lucas and/or Klavan starting. They had some poor games in that period, albeit mixed in with some good ones (e.g. Klavan against City and Lucas against Spurs).

Anyone moaning about Jan/Feb knocking us of the title race is wrong. Even with a good January/February we'd still have ended up a fair bit behind Chelsea. We may be sitting in 3rd or 2nd, at a push, though. In the end I think we coped quite well in Mane's 2nd absence of the season. The performances may not have been great but the points haul was. The key improvement we can make though is getting a consistent CB partnership next season. If you've got a good defence then you don't need to play scintillating football every week to win. No team plays amazing attacking football every game throughout the season. At times when your form dips, the very best teams rely on the defensive side of things to get them through games. When our form dipped in January and February, our defence was found wanting. Fair play, they did well near the end of the season once Matip and Livren got a run of games together. That points at the way forward for next season.

[redk84]

Overall I'm pleased.

My hopes last summer was for us to be in the mix for top 4 and a cup.....well we got top 4 but no cup.

There's positives and negatives as there are with all seasons but for the position we were in going into it, there's more to be happy with in my opinion.

Klopp has had a full season in the PL now with pre-season, winter period etc. and he has learnt even more about his players and how they've handled the ups and downs of it all. That's a positive going forwards because I have to believe that any lessons there to be learnt have been, but ultimately time will tell on that.

We recorded 76 points, our third highest amount since Houllier. Very good. Only managed 4th this season but it's a definite sign of progress. A couple of the new signings settled well, Mane being a revelation and Milner even found a place in the team contributing significantly.

January/February was the biggest low....any sniff at the title and/or cups gone. Was deflating....

But we finished the season on a good note and got the chance of CL. Stepping stones n all that.

Onwards and upwards

[Lycan]

Overall I'm pleased.

My hopes last summer was for us to be in the mix for top 4 and a cup.....well we got top 4 but no cup.

There's positives and negatives as there are with all seasons but for the position we were in going into it, there's more to be happy with in my opinion.

Klopp has had a full season in the PL now with pre-season, winter period etc. and he has learnt even more about his players and how they've handled the ups and downs of it all. That's a positive going forwards because I have to believe that any lessons there to be learnt have been, but ultimately time will tell on that.

We recorded 76 points, our third highest amount since Houllier. Very good. Only managed 4th this season but it's a definite sign of progress. A couple of the new signings settled well, Mane being a revelation and Milner even found a place in the team contributing significantly.

January/February was the biggest low....any sniff at the title and/or cups gone. Was deflating....

But we finished the season on a good note and got the chance of CL. Stepping stones n all that.

Onwards and upwards

Pretty much how I see it.

[Petadroli]

Overall I'm pleased.

My hopes last summer was for us to be in the mix for top 4 and a cup.....well we got top 4 but no cup.

There's positives and negatives as there are with all seasons but for the position we were in going into it, there's more to be happy with in my opinion.

Klopp has had a full season in the PL now with pre-season, winter period etc. and he has learnt even more about his players and how they've handled the ups and downs of it all. That's a positive going forwards because I have to believe that any lessons there to be learnt have been, but ultimately time will tell on that.

We recorded 76 points, our third highest amount since Houllier. Very good. Only managed 4th this season but it's a definite sign of progress. A couple of the new signings settled well, Mane being a revelation and Milner even found a place in the team contributing significantly.

January/February was the biggest low....any sniff at the title and/or cups gone. Was deflating....

But we finished the season on a good note and got the chance of CL. Stepping stones n all that.

Onwards and upwards

Agree with everything. I'm sure Klopp learnt a lot in his first full season in English football and he managed to get us into the top 4, which is just so important when recruiting in the summer. Exciting times.

[jepovic]

I think the only real black mark on the season for me is how ill prepared we were for Mane's absence, given we knew he was going to be away. Of course the Coutinho injury and Henderson/Lallana absences only compounded this, but we likely could have prepared better all the same.

That said, this is more of a reflection of how influential Mane as our POTY was, which in the bigger scheme of things is massive!

Yeah, I think the complaining on a lack of backup for Mane is strange. The definition of a great player is that they leave a gap behind, and we have been struggling to attract any players that good. When Klopp finds one, fans complain we should have gotten two - as if players like that are obtained like apples from the supermarket. We could always go back to filling the squad with average players that won't be missed...

The lesson learned should be that we need some more pace. Coutinho, Lallana and Firmino are good, but they lack the pace that is needed sometimes.

[Koprich]

Overall the season can be called a success based on achieving top 4 and a really respectable points tally.

It's slightly marred for me because of 'what could have been' if we had made sensible decisions in January and I found it really hard to forgive Klopp for not buying cover for Mane but I'm over it now and we are in a great position to push on next year.

Some quality signings this summer and some better luck with injuries and we can do good things.

Really hoping Ings can break into the squad. God knows he deserves it but I think it'll be really hard for him.

[Koprich]

Yeah, I think the complaining on a lack of backup for Mane is strange. The definition of a great player is that they leave a gap behind, and we have been struggling to attract any players that good. When Klopp finds one, fans complain we should have gotten two - as if players like that are obtained like apples from the supermarket. We could always go back to filling the squad with average players that won't be missed...

The lesson learned should be that we need some more pace. Coutinho, Lallana and Firmino are good, but they lack the pace that is needed sometimes.

No.

We didn't even have anyone on our books who was even the same TYPE of player. It's inexcusable but it's done now and we (sort of) got away with it.

Hopefully a lesson learnt for the club though.

[El Lobo]

Overall the season can be called a success based on achieving top 4 and a really respectable points tally.

It's slightly marred for me because of 'what could have been' if we had made sensible decisions in January and I found it really hard to forgive Klopp for not buying cover for Mane but I'm over it now and we are in a great position to push on next year.

Some quality signings this summer and some better luck with injuries and we can do good things.

Really hoping Ings can break into the squad. God knows he deserves it but I think it'll be really hard for him.

I'll tell him, he'll be pleased

[gregorio]

The table was a fair reflection in the end and we should be celebrating finishing above Arsenal. My disappointment was rolling over to Wolves in the cup. Injuries played a part I know but I expect a much more serious challenge in the cups next year

[GBF]

it was an ok season...qualify for CL with a thin squad but losing points against teams outside the top 6 and poor cup run were the negative points

[whiteboots]

A good league campaign.

I sense that Klopp is the man for Euro glory, next season will be interesting.

[Medellin]

Dunno how old this is..apparently in Ibiza.

[SquirrelandGman]

Dunno how old this is..apparently in Ibiza.

saw the picture and wanted to post it here too.

Love this man. Really hope he delivers us some trophies. Could be one of the greats alongside bob and bill

[Windom Earle]

We need to win trophies.  We're not Spurs or Everton.

I don't class 4th as a trophy.  I want us winning finals.  It really hurt watching Manure win the Europa last season.

I want the FA Cup, CL or League Cup next season.  I think the league is a bridge too far, we're not consistent enough.