Author Topic: Stop being mean about Borini  (Read 20293 times)

royhendo

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Re: Stop being mean about Borini
« Reply #120 on: September 21, 2012, 06:35:08 am »
You really see it when you watch him off the ball - really thought that at Hearts. You thought "if a midfielder clocks this..." cos he's either stretching it or running a line they could thread a ball into. Just need the finishing confidence to come eh?

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Re: Stop being mean about Borini
« Reply #121 on: September 21, 2012, 09:37:48 am »
The thing about players like him and Kuyt (well, he's obviously quicker and has a better touch than Kuyt), is that they complement and lift the team, rather than provide an individual edge. We could play the mancs with an attacking 3 + link midfielder of Borini, Luis, Sterling and Stevie, with two out of that 4 not linking too well, not being patient enough - which will starve Borini of movement and involvement. He'll feed off scraps, get the ball in positions where he has to dribble, which he isn't exceptional at - final effect, he looks below average. Has happened a few times this season.

Borini isn't a major issue, the team ethic is. Once we perfect that, he'll be a good squad member at the minimum.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2012, 09:41:25 am by surfer »

Offline batigol19

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Re: Stop being mean about Borini
« Reply #122 on: September 21, 2012, 10:15:01 am »
Hey, Roma fan here. One has envy for Liverpool ever since the departure of Borini, since he built on us so much enthusiasm about his bright future with the team. Even though we had a catastrophic season under an unreliable and unexperienced coach like Luis Enrique. However, Borini was one of the very few players who made an actual impact in the team during that season.

Anyways, back to the main point of this post. Ever since Borini arrived at Liverpool, I've been very frustrated and annoyed on how he is positioned on the field! Its actually an unforgivable  crime to actually bury him in the flanks because it never was his natural position nor can he benefit liverpool in that position. He basically doesn't have the qualities to fulfill that role and benefit the team. If this is Rodger's main intention of using Borini, then I advice you not to waste your time and sell him in the next transfer window!  Borini is an exact typical copy of Inzaghi! And I mean it and not exaggerating! The constant movement+standing in good positions+killer instinct+attitude. The only thing that differentiates both players is that Borini's finishing is a bit average but  I'm confident that he will improve as he picks up experience and develops as a player, since he is only 21. Can you imagine throwing Inzaghi on the right flank and wait for him to deliver!!(Ill leave that question for you to answer). Borini prefers a center role in attack and that kid definitely causes alot of disturbances to the opposition with his constant movement. I really dont know why Rodgers can play Borini in the center while suarez and sterling play on the flanks, since they both definitely have the qualities to fulfill that role!


Wish the best luck for Liverpool. :)


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Re: Stop being mean about Borini
« Reply #123 on: September 21, 2012, 10:30:46 am »
Hey, Roma fan here. One has envy for Liverpool ever since the departure of Borini, since he built on us so much enthusiasm about his bright future with the team. Even though we had a catastrophic season under an unreliable and unexperienced coach like Luis Enrique. However, Borini was one of the very few players who made an actual impact in the team during that season.

Anyways, back to the main point of this post. Ever since Borini arrived at Liverpool, I've been very frustrated and annoyed on how he is positioned on the field! Its actually an unforgivable  crime to actually bury him in the flanks because it never was his natural position nor can he benefit liverpool in that position. He basically doesn't have the qualities to fulfill that role and benefit the team. If this is Rodger's main intention of using Borini, then I advice you not to waste your time and sell him in the next transfer window!  Borini is an exact typical copy of Inzaghi! And I mean it and not exaggerating! The constant movement+standing in good positions+killer instinct+attitude. The only thing that differentiates both players is that Borini's finishing is a bit average but  I'm confident that he will improve as he picks up experience and develops as a player, since he is only 21. Can you imagine throwing Inzaghi on the right flank and wait for him to deliver!!(Ill leave that question for you to answer). Borini prefers a center role in attack and that kid definitely causes alot of disturbances to the opposition with his constant movement. I really dont know why Rodgers can play Borini in the center while suarez and sterling play on the flanks, since they both definitely have the qualities to fulfill that role!


Wish the best luck for Liverpool. :)



Welcome. Playing Borini in the centre is something quite a few on here have hoped for as well. He started from there in the last league game v Sunderland, and was in that position also v Young Boys. Hopefully that continues.

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Re: Stop being mean about Borini
« Reply #124 on: September 21, 2012, 11:18:35 am »
I think if people are being brutally honest they would find it hard to disagree with this.

Eh? I've just spent time and 900 words doing just that!

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Re: Stop being mean about Borini
« Reply #125 on: September 21, 2012, 11:23:59 am »
Eh? I've just spent time and 900 words doing just that!
;D
And thanks for doing so mate.

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Re: Stop being mean about Borini
« Reply #126 on: September 21, 2012, 11:44:31 am »
Good article. Having watched him last night and at Roma a little, think he's much better through the middle. Might suit Luis to come from the left/right too?
I don't agree, he'd go to Legoland. Bye.

Offline Talk Doctor

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Re: Stop being mean about Borini
« Reply #127 on: September 21, 2012, 12:09:40 pm »
Not really sure if this should be in here or the "Kids in the EL" thread as there is a lot of overlap. Firstly all strikers benefit from getting at defences before they are 'set'. Meaning the timing of the pass is as important as its precision. Our midfield in the league games, still trying to come to terms with a new system, has more than not erred on the side of caution. The ball recycling taking place 5-10m either side of the halfway line. This gives a 4 man back line with a good DM the chance to shuffle side to side as the ball is moved across the park. Any vertical passes into the CF area take longer to reach the target allowing the defence to re-adjust, i.e. cover runs made by the forwards irrespective of verticle or diagonal. This has reduced both the number of chances and their potential to result in an assist or goal. Borini and Suarez have both been on a diet of chances in the first 4 PL games because of this. Suarez is always going to be more spectacular than Borini but even his goal against Sunderland owed as much to a "shinning" from the PL resident expert Titus Bramble as it did to Suarez's positioning and quick reactions.
Last night after the first 15-20 mins you could see a definate intention to try to move the "recyling centre" forward by 10m. The players also displayed a greater willingness to play the ball to the feet of a man under pressure. There was also a greater willingness to receive said balls. This could partly be down to the exuberance of youth against the cautious approach which experience often brings, but it seemed like it was what the team set out to do. This meant the YB defence often had less time to adjust to vertical balls/runs from Henderson, Sahin and Suso. Unfortunately Pacheco was struggling with his positioning and the timing of his movement so much of this came to nothing. How different this might have been if the final ball after Suso's tango through the YB defence had reached the feet of a well positioned Pacheco. It would have been a huge lift for both the provider and the finisher. Uncle, Aunty balls etc.
So by the time Borini came on in his prefered position things were set up for him. His better "game intelligence", in that position, made a huge difference in the options both he and the other forward players started to get. Sometimes players need to develop an understanding with each other for things to happen e.g Toshack's flick ons Keegans runs, Dalglish and Rush. In the case of Borini he often creates chance for others without them having to be on the same wavelength. Hence Shelvey's second goal. Shelvey didn't need to anticipate what Borini did (pulling their CB out of positiion) he only had to drive into the space provided and finsh. The visiting Roma fan opined that Borini is a young Inzaghi. Not sure he is right, at the moment. An Inzaghi, V. horseface or the king of them all Gerd Mueller (and yes I saw him play live) would have screamed for the ball and gone for goal. Borini with team ethic is more a "means to an end" player then an end to a means, If you get what I means. Maybe part of the answer is in the OP title. Borini needs to start getting mean with his chances. All this takes time, some of us are prepared to give it to him others not. At the end of the day the only opinion that matters is Rogers. I can not see him giving up on Borini anytime soon. For a precedent see Dalglish and Downing last season. This is for the long haul and it is not Borini's fault that he cannot be eased into it as perhaps Rogers had envisaged.
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Re: Stop being mean about Borini
« Reply #128 on: September 21, 2012, 05:36:08 pm »
It's all very well claiming that his movement off the ball is exceptional.
We need someone who can put the ball away, we need someone to do it quickly and we've had since May to find one.

None of this is Borini's fault of course, but reading some of the posts on here is like describing him as some sort of poor mans Suarez. Who's more creator than out and out goalscorer.

We've paid £11m for basically what we've already got and that does it better.

Piss poor by Rodgers & the club.
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Re: Stop being mean about Borini
« Reply #129 on: September 21, 2012, 05:40:04 pm »
When he would have been worth more?

I don't see his value inflating as a matter of fact.  And even if we did have to pay an extra five million he would be worth the money then rather than now where we are speculating on him coming good and becoming a 15 million player in the future and have stumped up 10 million already towards it. 
Quote from: Dion Fanning

The chants for Kenny Dalglish that were heard again on Wednesday do not necessarily mean that the fans see him as the saviour. This is not Newcastle, longing for the return of Kevin Keegan. Simply, Dalglish represents everything Hodgson is not and, in fairness, everything Hodgson could or would not hope to be.

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Re: Stop being mean about Borini
« Reply #130 on: September 21, 2012, 05:41:49 pm »
This is the thing.....

Had we not signed him this summer for 11 million (or whatever it was) and he went on to score 20 goals for Roma, we'd be paying double next summer.

Taking risks on youngsters in the transfer market is something that has to be done if you're looking at developing your own superstars.

I think Borini is getting zero slack from some, which is odd, considering his age.

If he scored 20 goals for Roma then he would be worth the money !  At the moment we've paid upwards of 10 for a player that looks destined to be our new Kuyt. 
Quote from: Dion Fanning

The chants for Kenny Dalglish that were heard again on Wednesday do not necessarily mean that the fans see him as the saviour. This is not Newcastle, longing for the return of Kevin Keegan. Simply, Dalglish represents everything Hodgson is not and, in fairness, everything Hodgson could or would not hope to be.

Offline keyo

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Re: Stop being mean about Borini
« Reply #131 on: September 22, 2012, 01:40:16 am »
It's all very well claiming that his movement off the ball is exceptional.
We need someone who can put the ball away, we need someone to do it quickly and we've had since May to find one.

None of this is Borini's fault of course, but reading some of the posts on here is like describing him as some sort of poor mans Suarez. Who's more creator than out and out goalscorer.

We've paid £11m for basically what we've already got and that does it better.

Piss poor by Rodgers & the club.

I don't think many people are suggesting he is a creator, most of the praise is around his touch and his movement. His goal scoring record with Swansea and Roma suggests he can finish. He is young, it is early in his Liverpool career, so I think he can be afforded patience. Two things I think are important when assessing his impact thus far...

1 it was an error not getting another striker as this heaps more pressure on borini as he now has to deliver. He is a professional footballer and therefore he has to deal with it. He has had chances and he has missed them, what is important is that he shows he can deal with the pressure of having to deliver and to do that he needs the support of his manager and team mates. He also needs to show the courage to continue to get into position to miss chances, because if he can finish they will start going in sooner or later.

2 as mentioned by talk doctor above, we are not particularly incisive from midfield at the moment. We are showing good possession, and pressing, both big parts of Rodgers' game plan. The transition from regaining possession to attack (almost playing on the break but more advanced) relies on incisive and penetrative passing, and smart movement. Suarez is capable of this, and it appears so is borini. As (if) we get better at turning possession into penetration we will see borini receive more possession facing the opposition goal, something we have seen little of.

I can't say borini is going to be a superstar or even a starter for us in 2 years, but he is young, has promise and will improve...how much depends on him and and Rodgers.
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Offline keyo

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Re: Stop being mean about Borini
« Reply #132 on: September 22, 2012, 01:44:07 am »
If he scored 20 goals for Roma then he would be worth the money !  At the moment we've paid upwards of 10 for a player that looks destined to be our new Kuyt. 
11 million for dirk Kuyt is good money. We paid 10 for Kuyt when we bought him At age 26 and hit double figures in 3 out of 6 seasons. Would you be happy if borini hit double figures this season?
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Offline rushandapush

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Re: Stop being mean about Borini
« Reply #133 on: September 22, 2012, 01:44:57 am »
I have a feeling he's gonna get the winner on Sunday.

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Re: Stop being mean about Borini
« Reply #134 on: September 22, 2012, 01:51:21 am »
I have a feeling he's gonna get the winner on Sunday.
Would not go that far, but I believe we will see a different player with better service and a side that has confidence. We all have to be patient during this changing process, and having a go at these 21-year old's helps nobody.

Too many fans quick to jump the gun on the young talent at this club.
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Re: Stop being mean about Borini
« Reply #135 on: September 22, 2012, 02:42:15 am »
11 million for dirk Kuyt is good money. We paid 10 for Kuyt when we bought him At age 26 and hit double figures in 3 out of 6 seasons. Would you be happy if borini hit double figures this season?

Wasn't the biggest fan of Kuyt.  I thought 11 million was too much for him but there lies the point.  Kuyt for all his failings hit double figures in 3 seasons out of 6 and was signed pretty much at his peak at the age of 26.  He was also signed to be our main striker and it turned out he was well below that standard but that is for another day.  We've paid a similar amount of money for a player who is quite a far way off where Kuyt was when he moved here first.  I do think Borini has the potential to be better than Kuyt but right now he isn't as good as even Kuyt was and we paid the same amount.  We gambled on the futures mate when we had other more pressing concerns. 
Quote from: Dion Fanning

The chants for Kenny Dalglish that were heard again on Wednesday do not necessarily mean that the fans see him as the saviour. This is not Newcastle, longing for the return of Kevin Keegan. Simply, Dalglish represents everything Hodgson is not and, in fairness, everything Hodgson could or would not hope to be.

Offline adamski29

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Re: Stop being mean about Borini
« Reply #136 on: September 22, 2012, 11:03:34 am »
11 million for dirk Kuyt is good money. We paid 10 for Kuyt when we bought him At age 26 and hit double figures in 3 out of 6 seasons. Would you be happy if borini hit double figures this season?







11 million for kyuit, given what he contributed in his time here was money very well spent.
If we get similar from Borini we will have done well all things considered.

Offline Crixus

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Re: Stop being mean about Borini
« Reply #137 on: September 22, 2012, 02:27:53 pm »
I really do think he will make it. And i think soon he will be scoring almost every week. He does need time tho. In his first few games for us, a new Rodgers Liverpool who are also adapting he has played against the likes of Arsenal and City. We give seasoned premier league players like Downing so much time, so we should offer that to Borini, who i feel will only need abit longer.

I love his hunger, he is unfazed by anything. He does make mistakes but they don't seem to affect him, he keeps asking and showing for the ball. His movement is brilliant and actually gets onto the end of things in the box. Something we LFC fans have been starved of. He does seem very Inzaghi like, with added pace and power.

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Re: Stop being mean about Borini
« Reply #138 on: September 22, 2012, 02:30:51 pm »
If he scored 20 goals for Roma then he would be worth the money !  At the moment we've paid upwards of 10 for a player that looks destined to be our new Kuyt.
Give him a bit of time before assigning his destiny. Kuyt wasn't 21 when we signed him.
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Offline rlpolobear9

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Re: Stop being mean about Borini
« Reply #139 on: September 22, 2012, 02:37:09 pm »
his skills would be better noticed in a team with a true center forward who can finish, it sucks not having someone like that because the opposition can focus in on him and not allow him to be picked out floating into space
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Offline Red Bird

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Re: Stop being mean about Borini
« Reply #140 on: September 22, 2012, 03:00:08 pm »
A very intelligent player. With his movement, we need the midfield to run into the space he creates as Shelvey expertly did for his two goals.

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Re: Stop being mean about Borini
« Reply #141 on: September 22, 2012, 11:21:44 pm »
He will score tomorrow. I've had a good feeling about it all week.
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Re: Stop being mean about Borini
« Reply #142 on: September 23, 2012, 01:51:54 am »
Give him a bit of time before assigning his destiny. Kuyt wasn't 21 when we signed him.

Well his style of play is quite reminiscent of Kuyt and given he has been played out wide rather than in the centre, I think it is a valid assumption that he may well end up being a Kuyt like player in terms of style. 
Quote from: Dion Fanning

The chants for Kenny Dalglish that were heard again on Wednesday do not necessarily mean that the fans see him as the saviour. This is not Newcastle, longing for the return of Kevin Keegan. Simply, Dalglish represents everything Hodgson is not and, in fairness, everything Hodgson could or would not hope to be.

Offline jckliew

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Re: Stop being mean about Borini
« Reply #143 on: September 23, 2012, 02:08:39 am »


Anyways, back to the main point of this post. Ever since Borini arrived at Liverpool, I've been very frustrated and annoyed on how he is positioned on the field! Its actually an unforgivable  crime to actually bury him in the flanks because it never was his natural position nor can he benefit liverpool in that position. He basically doesn't have the qualities to fulfill that role and benefit the team. If this is Rodger's main intention of using Borini, then I advice you not to waste your time and sell him in the next transfer window!  Borini is an exact typical copy of Inzaghi! And I mean it and not exaggerating! The constant movement+standing in good positions+killer instinct+attitude. The only thing that differentiates both players is that Borini's finishing is a bit average but  I'm confident that he will improve as he picks up experience and develops as a player, since he is only 21. Can you imagine throwing Inzaghi on the right flank and wait for him to deliver!!(Ill leave that question for you to answer). Borini prefers a center role in attack and that kid definitely causes alot of disturbances to the opposition with his constant movement. I really dont know why Rodgers can play Borini in the center while suarez and sterling play on the flanks, since they both definitely have the qualities to fulfill that role



Many have that impression that he is played in the wrong position, ie the flanks.

How come BR does not see this?
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Offline glassypool

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Re: Stop being mean about Borini
« Reply #144 on: September 23, 2012, 04:02:46 am »
Many have that impression that he is played in the wrong position, ie the flanks.

How come BR does not see this?

He has seen this, precisely why against Sunderland and Young Boys he played in the centre.

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Re: Stop being mean about Borini
« Reply #145 on: September 23, 2012, 04:03:30 am »
Many have that impression that he is played in the wrong position, ie the flanks.

How come BR does not see this?

He is the manager. Traditionally, managers know far less about The Game than the average woman on the street.
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Re: Stop being mean about Borini
« Reply #146 on: September 23, 2012, 04:44:23 am »
 
Wasn't the biggest fan of Kuyt.  I thought 11 million was too much for him but there lies the point.  Kuyt for all his failings hit double figures in 3 seasons out of 6 and was signed pretty much at his peak at the age of 26.  He was also signed to be our main striker and it turned out he was well below that standard but that is for another day.  We've paid a similar amount of money for a player who is quite a far way off where Kuyt was when he moved here first.  I do think Borini has the potential to be better than Kuyt but right now he isn't as good as even Kuyt was and we paid the same amount.  We gambled on the futures mate when we had other more pressing concerns. 
Seriously, you're talking like inflation doesn't exist. I reckon the 11m now would be worth about 5m 6 years ago. Doesn't change the fact that we need another striker but don't use the transfer fee as a stick to beat Borini.

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Re: Stop being mean about Borini
« Reply #147 on: September 23, 2012, 05:15:55 am »
I think in a more ideal situation he wouldn't be playing as often as he is, perhaps much like Henderson last season. He's still to a large extent a prospect, but a very good one and I think with time he'll become a fan favorite here. Just show the patience and back him.
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Re: Stop being mean about Borini
« Reply #148 on: September 23, 2012, 05:36:58 am »
Seriously, you're talking like inflation doesn't exist. I reckon the 11m now would be worth about 5m 6 years ago. Doesn't change the fact that we need another striker but don't use the transfer fee as a stick to beat Borini.

Inflation does exist and while I'm not an economist I am pretty certain that the value of money hasn't halved.  Players of Borini's style don't often rise in value the way someone that plays like Suso or Sterling often do.  The flair players are the ones who often command massive fees like Hazard, Ronaldo etc have shown.  Borini seems to be more of an auxiliary attacker.  He works hard for the team and does the uncool stuff so to speak and while the contribution cannot be underestimated, players of that ilk are available across Europe and for less. 
Quote from: Dion Fanning

The chants for Kenny Dalglish that were heard again on Wednesday do not necessarily mean that the fans see him as the saviour. This is not Newcastle, longing for the return of Kevin Keegan. Simply, Dalglish represents everything Hodgson is not and, in fairness, everything Hodgson could or would not hope to be.

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Re: Stop being mean about Borini
« Reply #149 on: September 23, 2012, 06:31:24 am »
For those comparing Borini to Kuyt...if he gives us what Kuyt gave us while still retaining a decent srll on fee he'll have been fantastic business.

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Re: Stop being mean about Borini
« Reply #150 on: September 24, 2012, 05:56:05 pm »
think this lad has great potential, can already see his movement causing defenders problems. He's obviously come from Serie A where the pysical side of the game doesnt exist in comparison to the prem, so it'll take time for him to develop into the player BR knows he can become....just have to remain patient and trust Rodgers' judgement

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Re: Stop being mean about Borini
« Reply #151 on: September 24, 2012, 06:28:51 pm »
think this lad has great potential, can already see his movement causing defenders problems. He's obviously come from Serie A where the pysical side of the game doesnt exist in comparison to the prem, so it'll take time for him to develop into the player BR knows he can become....just have to remain patient and trust Rodgers' judgement
You do know he played for Swansea, right?

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Re: Stop being mean about Borini
« Reply #152 on: September 25, 2012, 10:00:39 am »
You do know he played for Swansea, right?

not sure how that really is relevant to the post you quote?
Joey's ate the frogs legs, made the swiss roll, now he's munchin' gladbach!!

Offline The 5th Benitle

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Re: Stop being mean about Borini
« Reply #153 on: September 25, 2012, 11:04:53 am »
not sure how that really is relevant to the post you quote?
It's very relevant, as the poster was questioning how he'd get on in the more physical English game, as if he didn't have experience of it  :wave

Offline keyo

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Re: Stop being mean about Borini
« Reply #154 on: September 25, 2012, 12:36:11 pm »
And the premier league is a lot different from the championship in quality and physicality.....it still leaves a lot down to rodgers' judgement being right......he can hardly point to his time at Swansea and and say, there you go proven quality

Just seemed to be a somewhat glib and pointless response, as what was said was pretty positive and not really very wrong
« Last Edit: September 25, 2012, 12:38:19 pm by keyo »
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Re: Stop being mean about Borini
« Reply #155 on: September 25, 2012, 03:26:59 pm »
And the premier league is a lot different from the championship in quality and physicality.....it still leaves a lot down to rodgers' judgement being right......he can hardly point to his time at Swansea and and say, there you go proven quality

Just seemed to be a somewhat glib and pointless response, as what was said was pretty positive and not really very wrong
Who's talking about quality? I was responding to the assertion that he might not be able to handle the physical side of things. No idea why you're pulling me up on this, all I did was ask the bloke if he was aware that Borini used to play for Swansea :wave

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Re: Stop being mean about Borini
« Reply #156 on: September 25, 2012, 04:02:28 pm »
And the premier league is a lot different from the championship in quality and physicality.....it still leaves a lot down to rodgers' judgement being right......he can hardly point to his time at Swansea and and say, there you go proven quality

Just seemed to be a somewhat glib and pointless response, as what was said was pretty positive and not really very wrong

To be fair, most would say that the Championship is more physical.

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Re: Stop being mean about Borini
« Reply #157 on: September 25, 2012, 04:04:02 pm »
To be fair, most would say that the Championship is more physical.
Exactly, thank you.

Offline keyo

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Re: Stop being mean about Borini
« Reply #158 on: September 25, 2012, 11:52:02 pm »
To be fair, most would say that the Championship is more physical.
I would actually disagree, but that is merely my opinion...prem players are fitter and stronger and more adept at using these abilities.... The physicality as you go down the leagues may be more obvious, but not necessarily more of a challenge

Borini is young enough to learn, and we will see if Rodgers is right about both his potential and his ability...he does know him well enough I think to judge better than we can.....but nothing is ever set in stone when it comes to potential
Joey's ate the frogs legs, made the swiss roll, now he's munchin' gladbach!!