Topic: Steven Gerrard

[Fromola]

So true,it was the whole discourse that it was a one man team, and he played up to that a bit (Steven m e ) (back at you auto correct) ), that always wound me up during his best seasons, and I don’t mind admitting it’s part of the fact, despite admiring and appreciating him as a player, he was never one of my favourites (and certainly not personality wise, like ever) . Of course he was great, and one of the best this club ever saw, but I always hated that the teams he was on that did win stuff, where always in his shadow, despute having some excellent players, who contributed massively.  That whole media line was trotted out, and was hugely insulting to coaches like Rafa and Ged and other players on those teams.

Gerrard played in some excellent teams, you'd think he was like Le Tissier at Southampton the way people go on.

He always had at least some top drawer players alongside him (Suarez, Torres, Alonso, Mascherano, Hamann, Hyypia, Reina, Coutinho).

Gerrard is one of the best players to play for the club but in the 15 years or so he played for us, he wasn't even our player of the year that regularly.

[alonsoisared]

So true,it was the whole discourse that it was a one man team, and he played up to that a bit (Stevie m e ) (back at you auto correct) ), that always wound me up during his best seasons, and I don’t mind admitting it’s part of the fact, despite admiring and appreciating him as a player, he was never one of my favourites (and certainly not personality wise, like ever) . Of course he was great, and one of the best this club ever saw, but I always hated that the teams he was on that did win stuff, where always in his shadow, despute having some excellent players, who contributed massively.  That whole media line was trotted out, and was hugely insulting to coaches like Rafa and Ged and other players on those teams.

In what way did he play up to that? Genuine question. About the only time I ever remember feeling that he was indulging himself slightly, was the way he celebrated the equaliser in Cardiff, but then again I reckon we can give him that one after he'd just volleyed one in from 35 yards in the 90th minute of an FA Cup final  

I think he absolutely knew that he was a massive figure at the club and as a player was a lot better than a lot of his teammates. From accounts I've heard he used that as a positive to try and drive standards up for the good of the club, for example making training sessions intense to expose any players not carrying themselves properly, rapping passes in at pace to test their control and so on.

[oojason]

Good point, someone like mascherano is being held up as someone who gets liverpool, in comparison to Gerrard.

The same mascherano who refused to play for us (whilst under contract) in order to force us to sell him in a cut price deal.

The hoops lads like carra and Gerrard have to jump thru, compared to foreign lads

Let's not re-write history, Let's get it right... eh?

A real pity some Reds have it in for Masch; some of it from G&H supporters, some of from fans who had it in for Rafa, bizarrely some Alonso fans, and some pro-Hodgson/Anglophiles...
Mascherano had wanted to leave for the 2008/09 season - but Rafa didn't want to lose both Alonso and Masch in the same season. Out of loyalty and respect, Masch agreed to stay one more year. Yet when the club looked to renege on that agreement (with Liverpool now under Hodgson) just before the transfer window was shutting - then started hiking the price - and leaking to the press about Masch's family... Masch refused to play in the Boro match... in order to force through what had already been previously agreed.


I'd take Masch's word for it over Purslow, Hodgson, and Paul 'Khmer Rouge' Tyrell - who did the leaking. Most people would, no?

www.theguardian.com/football/2010/sep/01/javier-mascherano-liverpool-exit
www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/aston-villa-vs-liverpool-why-christian-purslow-paul-tyrrell-villains-anfield-a9180396.html


I brought up Masch as he was one of the players who spoke out vs the owners - unlike Gerrard and Carragher... who we all know stayed quiet. Nothing else.

[Fromola]

In what way did he play up to that? Genuine question. About the only time I ever remember feeling that he was indulging himself slightly, was the way he celebrated the equaliser in Cardiff, but then again I reckon we can give him that one after he'd just volleyed one in from 35 yards in the 90th minute of an FA Cup final  

I think he absolutely knew that he was a massive figure at the club and as a player was a lot better than a lot of his teammates. From accounts I've heard he used that as a positive to try and drive standards up for the good of the club, for example making training sessions intense to expose any players not carrying themselves properly, rapping passes in at pace to test their control and so on.

The captain writing players off as shite after one training session, after they mis-controlled a ball leathered at them, isn't always a good thing though. Especially given how limited his best mate Carragher was on the ball but was always a guaranteed pick.

One thing Henderson did do as captain was make players feel more welcome. All players, not just his mates like Joe Cole, or just the English lads. Obviously Gerrard had far more ability than Henderson but Henderson really helped to forge the best team spirit we've had in many decades.

[alonsoisared]

Don't bother googling it - you'll be wasting your time (google in the way it constructs searches over the past 10 years) and also the club and other vested interests have done some scrubbing of articles from that time too. Read up on it on here or other forums from the time. You won't find much about Sami because what he said and did was at the early SOS meetings. And in press articles you're not likely to find on google. Same pretty much for Masch, Agger, and Reina.

Gerrard and Carragher are well aware of their failure to speak up vs the owners - as well as both aware that the excuses they came up with after is... lacking to the say the least.

Nobody is asking them to be clued up on everything - though you do them and fans a disservice inferring that they don't know right from wrong - or what they are rightly going to get stick for, and aren't.


We don't ask too much from our footballers - some may do, not all of us.

For instance some are not going to call anyone who thinks Momo had a great game in Cardiff in 2006 a "try hard" - as part of some sort of 'defence' of Gerrard.

Some are not going to state someone "single-handedly won us X trophy" - because X didn't; the last time I looked this was still a team/squad game - and not X+ 10 others. How derogatory is that.

Or claim "in that Hicks and Gillett era where people seemed to expect him to single handedly take them down" - which is utter revisionist bollocks and also a lousy swipe at fans who were protesting for the club at that time.

Or use Rafa as a scapegoat or excuse... because other may not have the same glowing opinion of a player as you do in... "I've said it before but IMO it all goes back to the alleged split with Rafa and those who could never hear a bad word about him taking his side over Gerrard's."

You don't have to put others down or attempt to divide others to praise or 'defend' the people you like.


My opinion is that so far, Gerrard has gotten off lightly in going to Saudi to be a posterboy for this Saudi sportswashing project, and also in this Henderson transfer fiasco so far.

Does this detract from my view on him as a person? Yes, it does.

Does it detract from my appreciation of everything he did on the pitch when he was playing for us? No - though it is soiled somewhat... To what degree... I don't know; early days and all that.


I'll leave it there.

I was active on here back in those dark days, I've got my "standards corrupted" shirt somewhere that I wore with pride in my first year at uni. I remember feeling frustrated with the players but I can understand looking back that it was a difficult position to be in. Ultimately the fans pulled through, as they so often do. I don't know why you think I'm taking a swipe at the fans who protested in any way. I would genuinely be interested in what role Reina, Hyypia, Mascherano, Agger etc took in those early SOS meetings though. Mascherano could hardly talk English, could he?

I wont go on mate, I'm not trying to split anyone. I just can't abide some of the absolute shite thrown at him and it's sent me down a rabbit hole. Hendo a bigger legend. Jim Royle had the perfect catchphrase for that shout.

[oojason]

The captain writing players off as shite after one training session, after they mis-controlled a ball leathered at them, isn't always a good thing though.

One thing Henderson did do as captain was make players feel more welcome. All players, not just his mates like Joe Cole, or just the English lads. Obviously Gerrard had far more ability than Henderson but Henderson really helped to forge the best team spirit we've had in many decades.

Gerrard admitted he never having a conversation with Biscan in all his time here - called him a "tit" - and personally blamed him for our exit in the Uefa Cup QFs.

Not great captaining that, especially given Biscan's role in helping us to win No.5 in Istanbul. Hopefully Gerrard has apologised to him since - though he really should do it publicly, as he slated him in public, to sell a few copies of his book.

I would genuinely be interested in what role Reina, Hyypia, Mascherano, Agger etc took in those early SOS meetings though. Mascherano could hardly talk English, could he?

I should have made myself more clear - apologies. Sami was at the early meetings. Masch, Agger, and Reina spoke out in the press - though you'd be hard pressed to find those articles in full now (and is easier/quicker to find out what was going on at the time on here, or on the other fan forums - than on google).

Maschs' English was decent, broken, but decent. I'm sure he could tell Steve Bennett, Webb, the FA, scum press, Ferguson, Purslow, Tyrell and Hodgson to 'fuck off' quite well.

[b_joseph]

Absolute cesspool of a thread, ridiculous to see people downplaying Gerrard's achievements and immense talent just because he's gone to Saudi.

In an emotional game, the people will tend to get a little...emotional. I read a while back that he holds the record ( outfield players ) for most PFA team of the year appearances. For anyone to suggest or even slightly imply that he wasnt an absolute all time great, without question, is silly.

Ive seen it with some United fans in recent years with Keane. I guess after a while, some willingly forget.

[classycarra]

A lot of Gerrard apologists in this thread. Great player, but to say locals hold him and other local players to higher standards and give them more stick? Not my impression. Sometimes I’ve had the impression it’d Gerrard FC and not Liverpool FC.

Gerrard to me is just «another» Liverpool player. I don’t have any more love for him than I had for John Barnes, Kevin Keegan, Luis Suarez, Bobby Firmino. Locals do.

Apologists is that really the word you're opting for, to represent people who disagree with your suggestion Henderson is a bigger legend of a player than Gerrard

You're making some extremely bizarre points now. Can you explain, when you say "Sometimes I’ve had the impression it’d Gerrard FC and not Liverpool FC", are you basing this on conversations you're having in Norway? Or Liverpool? England?

[oojason]

Not true, I think Gerrard has got off lightly here.

Very much so.

You'd have to question Gerrard too... in believing that the current Liverpool captain, with 2 years remaining on his contract, would be available 'on a free'.

Albeit on wages around the reported £700,000 p/w. Gerrard wanting Henderson as his marquee signing for his new club... just as pre-season training for Liverpool had commenced - our plans likely already in place for the coming season going on recent departures and arrivals... would surely not be welcomed by Liverpool. A fee would obviously have to be paid.

Despite this, it appears he has been let off quite lightly in all this Henderson transfer business so far - despite him being the one that wants Henderson, the timing of it, and apparent lacks of funds to secure the player... leaves Gerrard looking amateur and naïve. Impacting upon Liverpool's plans for the coming season likely won't go down well with some fans, though I'm sure others will still idolise him, or attempt to continue to justify or excuse his role in this.


Though that's sportswashing for you. £700,000p/w on one very high profile player - instead of trying to secure and build a team of quality players on £70,000p/w - or a more balanced squad averaging out at less. Seems a bit short term / 'one expensive egg in your basket' approach, that; one marquee signing... Though needless to say the whole sportswashing project doesn't seem logically set up to be long-term sustainable at all. Sign BIG NAMEZ instead!!!

Still finding it disappointing Gerrard decided to take the Saudi sportswashing, human-rights abusing, child executioners' blood stained money... to go be a poster boy for that brutal oppressive regime.

[thejbs]

There’s already a video of him taking training going viral for the wrong reasons

This is accurate.
https://twitter.com/Semprista/status/1679196526772355077?s=20

[Geezer08]

Fucking tragic, that one of our biggest legends basically turned himself into an internet meme for a few bucks.

[only6times]

A lot of Gerrard apologists in this thread. Great player, but to say locals hold him and other local players to higher standards and give them more stick? Not my impression. Sometimes I’ve had the impression it’d Gerrard FC and not Liverpool FC.

Gerrard to me is just «another» Liverpool player. I don’t have any more love for him than I had for John Barnes, Kevin Keegan, Luis Suarez, Bobby Firmino. Locals do.

Go home lad, your mam's made cakes

[BoRed]

In what way did he play up to that? Genuine question. About the only time I ever remember feeling that he was indulging himself slightly, was the way he celebrated the equaliser in Cardiff, but then again I reckon we can give him that one after he'd just volleyed one in from 35 yards in the 90th minute of an FA Cup final  

If I remember correctly, this is when the Stevie M e stuff began

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/bMuomVcGKLw" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/bMuomVcGKLw</a>

And we didn't even win that game.

[Red Beret]

Gerrard was indeed a generational talent. But then, so was Fowler, Owen, and now Trent.

We're not short of local heroes. Why the heck else would we have an academy?

[afc tukrish]

Gerrard was indeed a generational talent. But then, so was Fowler, Owen, and now Trent.

We're not short of local heroes. Why the heck else would we have an academy?

Because we are required to?

[Red Beret]

Because we are required to?

I just meant that the academy is intended to produce talent. Not every player will be good enough, but we are always looking for the next Trent, Gerrard etc.


An unrelated point it's notable how Gerrard, Owen and Fowler's LFC careers all overlapped to a degree. When Fowler broke through, he was playing alongside Ian Rush, then alongside Owen and Gerrard; SG and Henderson shared a pitch for a number of years. It's interesting to see how the footballing generations are linked in that regard.

[God's Left Peg]

"A real family feeling" for his wife and 3 daughters I'm sure.

A football project "for the right reasons"...

I mean, if you're going to sell out at least just go for it fully, don't try and pretend anything else ffs.

Who the fuck does he think he's kidding?

[norecat]

If he had gotten Rangers to the European final instead of bolting down the motorway to Birmingham he would have done more for his career than a year at Villa. He does have managerial ability and showed it at Ibrox. Villa didn't work out. I don't see his move to Saudi Arabia doing anything to help him climb back up the managerial ladder.

Going to let's say Leicester and getting them back in the EPL would have been more beneficial to him career wise. He will earn insane money in Saudi and at the moment it's the latest new frontier.

[disgraced cake]

If he had gotten Rangers to the European final instead of bolting down the motorway to Birmingham he would have done more for his career than a year at Villa. He does have managerial ability and showed it at Ibrox. Villa didn't work out. I don't see his move to Saudi Arabia doing anything to help him climb back up the managerial ladder.

Going to let's say Leicester and getting them back in the EPL would have been more beneficial to him career wise. He will earn insane money in Saudi and at the moment it's the latest new frontier.

Leaving that Rangers job was nuts in hindsight. Thought at the time he just picked the wrong time to leave. He definitely could have taken them to the EL final that season and they likely wouldn't have gone off the boil in the Scottish Prem had he not left. Moving on at the end of that season would have been fair enough. Also picked the complete wrong side to move to, because there's a limit to what you can do with someone like Villa in the Prem, certainly with limited experience. Emery has done really well there but I won't expect their good form to carry on throughout the whole of next season.

[Fromola]

If he had gotten Rangers to the European final instead of bolting down the motorway to Birmingham he would have done more for his career than a year at Villa. He does have managerial ability and showed it at Ibrox. Villa didn't work out. I don't see his move to Saudi Arabia doing anything to help him climb back up the managerial ladder.

Going to let's say Leicester and getting them back in the EPL would have been more beneficial to him career wise. He will earn insane money in Saudi and at the moment it's the latest new frontier.

He started okay at Villa but he was lost without Beale (when he left for QPR at the end of that season). He did a lot of the tactical stuff and coaching at Rangers and Villa up to that point and is now managing Rangers himself.

[Clint Eastwood]

He’s a meme these days. Gave up his managerial career then convinced Henderson to tarnish his reputation and retire from competitive football. Just a twat.

[jillcwhomever]

He’s a meme these days. Gave up his managerial career then convinced Henderson to tarnish his reputation and retire from competitive football. Just a twat.

He has escaped a lot of the criticism for this move, but absolutely no surprise he was so important in pushing this deal through.

[John C]

His foreseeable future is in Saudi so lets use that thread until the situation changes in due course.