Author Topic: Youth and Under 23 Thread  (Read 12308227 times)

Offline Aceldama

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #84280 on: September 3, 2015, 07:10:04 pm »
^ With England having the richest league in the world we should have the best development systems too, no excuses. Unfortunately most of the money gets thrown at short term solutions in the transfer market by teams terrified of falling off the gravy train. The league has too many cases like Stoke who have a poor youth system but can afford to fill their first team with ready made players from abroad and Chelsea who have one of the best youth systems in Europe but no pathway to the first team.

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #84281 on: September 3, 2015, 07:32:57 pm »
^ With England having the richest league in the world we should have the best development systems too, no excuses. Unfortunately most of the money gets thrown at short term solutions in the transfer market by teams terrified of falling off the gravy train. The league has too many cases like Stoke who have a poor youth system but can afford to fill their first team with ready made players from abroad and Chelsea who have one of the best youth systems in Europe but no pathway to the first team.

It goes back to labor practices.... In one corner we have the Thatcher neoliberals (England) and in the other a more balanced type of view ordoliberalism where market forces merge with local ownership to meet the needs of each (Germany - worker ownership). 

The total amount of money thrown at  problem is less important than the structure in place to exploit the resources/people.  Less exploitation and individualism, the more overall shared wealth. Not difficult to understand.
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Offline Chris~

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #84282 on: September 4, 2015, 05:07:46 pm »
Rossiter and Ojo starting for the u19s.

England U19s v Germany: Woodman, Kenny, Taylor Moore, Clarke-Salter (c), Tafari Moore, Rossiter, Cook, Ojo, Maitland-Niles, Roberts, Solanke.

Don't think there's a stream for it.

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #84283 on: September 4, 2015, 06:14:51 pm »
Ojo has scored!
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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #84284 on: September 4, 2015, 06:23:14 pm »
Goaljo.
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Offline Aceldama

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #84285 on: September 4, 2015, 07:00:38 pm »
So many of the players in this England U19 squad could go on to be regulars at the top clubs if they fulfil their potential. The group is flush with quality. 

3-1 up right now despite going down to 10 men just after half time.

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #84286 on: September 4, 2015, 07:34:35 pm »
So many of the players in this England U19 squad could go on to be regulars at the top clubs if they fulfil their potential. The group is flush with quality. 


Or given a chance.

Offline LFCTikiTaka

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #84287 on: September 4, 2015, 08:10:35 pm »
Yesil scored twice on his debut for Luzern, they won 5-1

<a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/swf/x34p5vu_yesil-at-the-double-for-fc-luzern_sport" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.dailymotion.com/swf/x34p5vu_yesil-at-the-double-for-fc-luzern_sport</a>

Offline kevin87

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #84288 on: September 4, 2015, 10:17:48 pm »
Yesil scored twice on his debut for Luzern, they won 5-1

<a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/swf/x34p5vu_yesil-at-the-double-for-fc-luzern_sport" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.dailymotion.com/swf/x34p5vu_yesil-at-the-double-for-fc-luzern_sport</a>

hows the finish for the second! really look like he has bulked up a bit too. I just want to see him get a full season in, stay fit and get a bit of confidence in his body, see where we go from there. With his injuries he almost is a little bit like tex.... probably 2 years physically behind their actual age due to unlucky persistent injuries.

Offline dakid

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #84289 on: September 6, 2015, 11:34:54 pm »
England U19 highlights vs Germany. Ojo and Rossiter feature. http://youtu.be/U_HQtHFP2l8

Offline lastbaron

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #84290 on: September 7, 2015, 10:21:15 am »
Ojo could have a great future. His physical structure and technique are quite exceptional for his age. He needs to find what role suits him best and work on that.

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #84291 on: September 7, 2015, 11:46:10 am »
Ojo could have a great future. His physical structure and technique are quite exceptional for his age. He needs to find what role suits him best and work on that.

Tricky isn't it. I'm not sure he's quite anything....if you know what I mean. Hopefully he gets some games for us in the future, I really like him

Offline ThePeetmix

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #84292 on: September 7, 2015, 12:03:51 pm »
Tricky isn't it. I'm not sure he's quite anything....if you know what I mean. Hopefully he gets some games for us in the future, I really like him

It's probably why these loans are good for Ojo. Give him more of a regular role in a side.

I think for the most part nowadays, he's being used as a left winger.

Offline stevelecool

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #84293 on: September 7, 2015, 07:38:18 pm »
I'd like to see Ojo drifting wide from a central position, like how Di Maria played in Madrid's 4-3-3. Think that's the position that best suits him, even though he's rarely been used centrally.

Offline Fromola

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #84294 on: September 8, 2015, 04:09:53 pm »
According to the Australian FA, Brad Smith is currently without a club. Just to make it "official" even though the club and player have been quiet about it.

http://under23s.footballaustralia.com.au/article/vidmar-names-strong-squad-for-olyroos-matches/tmgjoy6yw6bv1o79wyi2v66p7

Well done the club on cutting his loan spell short at Swindon last season when he was playing every week at the top of League One. Really benefited all parties that.
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Offline lfcmason

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #84295 on: September 8, 2015, 04:10:49 pm »
Ryan Kent going to Coventry City on loan

Offline Lovely Man

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #84296 on: September 8, 2015, 04:32:02 pm »
England U19 highlights vs Germany. Ojo and Rossiter feature. http://youtu.be/U_HQtHFP2l8

Great finish by Ojo, some first touch as well under pressure.


He looks a danger, bit raw like Adama Traore, but very powerful and very quick and good reflexes.

I also really like Solanke, and I sort of hope that Chelsea are caught napping and we can steal in there in the future.  Much like Sinclair, and Sturridge, the homegrown lads will never get a go while Chelsea are so fixated on short term success and immediate results.

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Offline Aceldama

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #84297 on: September 8, 2015, 05:50:06 pm »
This is a good read: https://youthhawk.wordpress.com/2015/09/07/the-problems-and-promises-of-modern-english-youth-football-a-deconstruction/

It's a very detailed critique of the usual suspects. We get a brief positive mention. It's long but I think it's worth reading the whole thing if you have the time, there are so many quotable passages.

Offline jboy14

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #84298 on: September 8, 2015, 06:33:23 pm »
Great little article on Harry Wilson here : http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/liverpool-fc-starlet-harry-wilson-10013943?s


I think he will do well there and maybe if luck is on his side, he could make the Wales Euro 2016 squad along with 3 other Liverpool players.

« Last Edit: September 8, 2015, 06:36:27 pm by jboy14 »
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Offline Fromola

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #84299 on: September 8, 2015, 06:52:53 pm »
Ryan Kent going to Coventry City on loan

Good move, but didn't the club prevent him joining Swindon because they wanted him on a Championship loan?
Could have done with Grujic and even Chirivella to tide us over this season

Offline Chris~

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #84300 on: September 8, 2015, 11:29:30 pm »
This is a good read: https://youthhawk.wordpress.com/2015/09/07/the-problems-and-promises-of-modern-english-youth-football-a-deconstruction/

It's a very detailed critique of the usual suspects. We get a brief positive mention. It's long but I think it's worth reading the whole thing if you have the time, there are so many quotable passages.
On the bit about football league sides giving players a chance and then them being bought, I imagine Lewis Cook will be the next one to get snapped up by a Premier League side. It'll be interesting to compare his progress with Rossiter who looks like he's skipping the loan phase and to a lesser extent Ledson if he gets off the u21s bench.

Offline Aceldama

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #84301 on: September 9, 2015, 12:06:25 am »
On the bit about football league sides giving players a chance and then them being bought, I imagine Lewis Cook will be the next one to get snapped up by a Premier League side. It'll be interesting to compare his progress with Rossiter who looks like he's skipping the loan phase and to a lesser extent Ledson if he gets off the u21s bench.

Ledson seems to be stalling compared with his peers in this group. He doesn't seem that close to the Everton first team and he's gone from captaining England youth teams to not being in the squad.

From that England U19 squad you have two central midfielders playing regular league football (Reed and Cook) and two on the fringes of PL teams with better than average records of promoting youth (Onomah and Rossiter). For the purpose of comparison it's a shame there aren't another couple of central midfielders in the group from Chelsea/Man City.

Offline dakid

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #84302 on: September 9, 2015, 01:09:01 am »
Interesting article this. Surprised only two of our promoted players from the academy since 2010/11 season have played 25 games for us and one of them is gone now.

http://www.espnfc.com/blog/espn-fc-united/68/post/2596330/kane-and-premier-league-youth-graduates-chances-slipping

Offline ThePeetmix

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #84303 on: September 9, 2015, 02:36:35 am »
Good move, but didn't the club prevent him joining Swindon because they wanted him on a Championship loan?

I imagine we were holding out as long as we could for one, but the opportunity just never came along.

Offline DefJack

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #84304 on: September 9, 2015, 04:55:02 am »
England U19 highlights vs Germany. Ojo and Rossiter feature. http://youtu.be/U_HQtHFP2l8

Great pass by Rossiter in that video, he definitely has that ability, would like to see it come out more.


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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #84305 on: September 9, 2015, 09:49:01 am »
Good move, but didn't the club prevent him joining Swindon because they wanted him on a Championship loan?

I thought the Swindon manager said he wanted him, but there were Championship clubs interested, so was unlikely to get him. Maybe nothing concrete materialised and Coventry were the best team to put in an offer?

Plus, with Swindon having three from us, they couldn't loan any more of us could they?
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Offline macca007

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #84306 on: September 9, 2015, 10:17:12 am »
Ledson seems to be stalling compared with his peers in this group. He doesn't seem that close to the Everton first team and he's gone from captaining England youth teams to not being in the squad.

From that England U19 squad you have two central midfielders playing regular league football (Reed and Cook) and two on the fringes of PL teams with better than average records of promoting youth (Onomah and Rossiter). For the purpose of comparison it's a shame there aren't another couple of central midfielders in the group from Chelsea/Man City.

My mate coached Ledson at everton until he left the other year.  Said they had higher expectations for him than Barkley and even Rooney.  And that was not long ago

Offline C

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #84307 on: September 9, 2015, 10:01:33 pm »
He's only 18, i'm sure Ledson is going to get his chance - as mentioned he's shown great promise for years and will surely be a premier league player. Just a case of getting his break, he's got Besic, Barkley, Barry, Cleverly (inj) Gibson, McCarthy, Osman to get past. Strange he doesn't have a squad number though.

what about Loftus Cheek at Chelsea, i've seen him make a fair cameos.
« Last Edit: September 9, 2015, 10:03:34 pm by C »
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Offline Chris~

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #84308 on: September 9, 2015, 10:34:52 pm »
Ledson's not started the season as a starter for their u21 side though. Could be injury related or something else I guess.


Online RaveDave

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #84309 on: September 9, 2015, 11:55:55 pm »
I thought the Swindon manager said he wanted him, but there were Championship clubs interested, so was unlikely to get him. Maybe nothing concrete materialised and Coventry were the best team to put in an offer?

Plus, with Swindon having three from us, they couldn't loan any more of us could they?

I read an article today online somewhere that said two championship clubs wanted him but neither would agree to Liverpool's request for him to be guaranteed a certain amount of playing time.

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #84310 on: September 10, 2015, 12:01:09 am »
I read an article today online somewhere that said two championship clubs wanted him but neither would agree to Liverpool's request for him to be guaranteed a certain amount of playing time.

Good to hear that we are making certain demands.  Nothing worse than sending a kid out of loan and to not get any playing time.
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Offline Mr Mingebag Squid

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #84311 on: September 10, 2015, 09:00:18 am »
Good to hear that we are making certain demands.  Nothing worse than sending a kid out of loan and to not get any playing time.

Agreed. As poor as the U21 league is, there's no point sending a kid to go sit on another teams bench, or worse, turn out for their U21 team.

If a prospective team can offer at least 45 mins a game then that's what we should be after.
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Offline KingKolo

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #84312 on: September 10, 2015, 11:41:32 am »
Agreed. As poor as the U21 league is, there's no point sending a kid to go sit on another teams bench, or worse, turn out for their U21 team.

If a prospective team can offer at least 45 mins a game then that's what we should be after.
On the flipside, isn't it a bit dodgy for a young player to get used to playing no matter how he performs in training or in games? Moreover, these loan moves should serve as a good test of a young players ability to cut it at a higher level. If Kent had ended up on the bench at a Championship club, it would maybe tell us about his overall potential.

Offline Lovely Man

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #84313 on: September 10, 2015, 11:46:37 am »
It's hard to see how any of the young players are going to get a chance to move into the first team when Rodgers is having a hard enough time giving gametime to players like Allen, Lucas, Lallana, Ings, Origi, Toure, Moreno, not to mention Markovic who is on loan.

Not sure what Joe Gomez did in training, but to get straight into the first team from where he was at Charlton is extraordinary.
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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #84314 on: September 10, 2015, 11:53:19 am »
It's hard to see how any of the young players are going to get a chance to move into the first team when Rodgers is having a hard enough time giving gametime to players like Allen, Lucas, Lallana, Ings, Origi, Toure, Moreno, not to mention Markovic who is on loan.

Not sure what Joe Gomez did in training, but to get straight into the first team from where he was at Charlton is extraordinary.

That's a good thing isnt it? Having to be extraordinary to get in to our team? Thats what we want.

Be arsed with handing out games to the likes of El Zhar and Plessis because there's nobody better than them keeping them out.

If those still at the club like Kent/Brannagan/Teixeria/whoever need to be extraordinary to get a game then I'm more than happy with that, because it means that we've set a decent bar for them. If they reach it (like Gomez) then we're laughing.

Rodgers wont hesitate in playing those who set themselves apart.

Offline Chris~

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #84315 on: September 10, 2015, 11:53:59 am »
Gomez, Ibe and Rossiter have all played in the first 4 games, I wouldn't worry about young players not getting game time under Rodgers.

With the injuries we've got in midfield we might see someone else make the squad for next Thursday if Rodgers really does want to rest most the first choice players. Plus there's a home game against League Two opposition the week after that.

Offline Lovely Man

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #84316 on: September 10, 2015, 12:41:40 pm »
That's a good thing isnt it? Having to be extraordinary to get in to our team? Thats what we want.

Be arsed with handing out games to the likes of El Zhar and Plessis because there's nobody better than them keeping them out.

If those still at the club like Kent/Brannagan/Teixeria/whoever need to be extraordinary to get a game then I'm more than happy with that, because it means that we've set a decent bar for them. If they reach it (like Gomez) then we're laughing.

Rodgers wont hesitate in playing those who set themselves apart.

But some players need top level experience to get the last bit of their development, and may then go on to be extraordinary, compared with their peers.

If we take Shelvey as an example, that lad wouldn't be where he is today if he was being loaned here there and everywhere, and being stuck in our U21's.  His motivation has come from being exposed to top level footy for a sustained period, seeing his flaws, and then wanting to work on them.

We've got a bunch of players who will never recognise their flaws as a top level player, because they never get a game at top level for long enough to recognise it themselves.
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Offline g1norris

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #84317 on: September 10, 2015, 12:44:09 pm »
I know it has been mentioned earlier but Coventry announce Kent Loan...

Coventry City sign Liverpool midfielder Ryan Kent on a youth loan deal until January 16th.

More: http://bit.ly/1gbt834
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Offline Lovely Man

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #84318 on: September 10, 2015, 12:45:04 pm »
Gomez, Ibe and Rossiter have all played in the first 4 games, I wouldn't worry about young players not getting game time under Rodgers.

With the injuries we've got in midfield we might see someone else make the squad for next Thursday if Rodgers really does want to rest most the first choice players. Plus there's a home game against League Two opposition the week after that.

I would argue that Rossiter's experience the first team is a different beast to the time, and roles, enjoyed by pace-merchants Ibe and Gomez.
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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #84319 on: September 10, 2015, 12:46:49 pm »
But some players need top level experience to get the last bit of their development, and may then go on to be extraordinary, compared with their peers.

If we take Shelvey as an example, that lad wouldn't be where he is today if he was being loaned here there and everywhere, and being stuck in our U21's.  His motivation has come from being exposed to top level footy for a sustained period, seeing his flaws, and then wanting to work on them.

We've got a bunch of players who will never recognise their flaws as a top level player, because they never get a game at top level for long enough to recognise it themselves.

Why wouldn't their flaws be obvious playing first team football out on loan?