Topic: Dani Pacheco

[johnhouldinglfc]

There must be a reason why all of the managers he's played under here have not deemed him good enough to give him a run out in the first team.

Not really crazy at all.

Considering he has been the standout player for the reserves this season it looks very harsh.

Especially when Rodgers has said the following about the Mansfield game

"This is one where I have got to utilise the squad", said Rodgers.

Remember Enrique is injured and Cole is gone and Assaidi is off at the African Cup so the wide options are fairly limited.

Cant see the logic in not having Pacheco involved to give him a chance and rest Sterling/Downing/Suso.

[liverpoolfan1]

wish people would stop getting a boner of him. if he was really that could rafa, roy, kenny and BR would have al used him by now. a team loaned him from us to only loan him out again.....

he isnt good enough. deal with it

This shit argument again?

Let's see...

Rafa = rated him highly. Was only 18 at the time and made 7 appearences in 2009/10 before Rafa was sacked. That is the most amount of appearences he has made for us in a season thus far.

Hodgson = the fact that he didn't play him probably says more about Pacheco's talent than it would have had he played him. The guy had Poulsen and Koncheskey as regular starters in his team.

Kenny = gave some of the youth players a chance however all of the ones which were given a chance were English.

Rodgers = probably the hardest to pick why he isn't giving Pacheco a chance but I suspect it's because he has already made up his mind to let him go in January. Was ready to sell him in the summer but kept him because the Dempsey deal fell through.



Here's a suggestion. How about next time judge how good a player is based on what you see on the pitch as opposed to postulating why he isn't being given game time by certain managers? Pacheco has been one of the outstanding players for the U21 team this season and for me that merits being given a chance against a team like Mansfield.

[Eeyore]

There must be a reason why all of the managers he's played under here have not deemed him good enough to give him a run out in the first team.

Not really crazy at all.

Would you apply the same logic to Sturridge at Chelsea ?

[TheGOAT]

Would you apply the same logic to Sturridge at Chelsea ?

Not really. He played regularly under AVB and was excellent.

[Melbred]

Would you apply the same logic to Sturridge at Chelsea ?

No because he actually played in their first team and performed well.

[Veinticinco de Mayo]

Would you apply the same logic to Sturridge at Chelsea ?

Absolutely I would.  Signing him is both a gamble and a sign of where we have slipped to in the pecking order.  We have to hope that Rodgers can get something out of him where others have failed.  In fairness I think the manager thought the same thing or he would have signed him in the summer.

And if we do make Pacheco available for transfer then his lack of appearances under a range of managers will be a huge factor for the clubs thinking of making a bid.

[Bangin Them In]

Would you apply the same logic to Sturridge at Chelsea ?

No, as he has scored goals at the top level with Bolton and Chelsea, so we have actually seen him perform in the Premiership.

[B0151?]

maybe if the lad hadn't wanted to go to spain last season to be with his bird he might have got a chance

[Veinticinco de Mayo]

This shit argument again?

Let's see...

Rafa = rated him highly. Was only 18 at the time and made 7 appearences in 2009/10 before Rafa was sacked. That is the most amount of appearences he has made for us in a season thus far.

Hodgson = the fact that he didn't play him probably says more about Pacheco's talent than it would have had he played him. The guy had Poulsen and Koncheskey as regular starters in his team.

Kenny = gave some of the youth players a chance however all of the ones which were given a chance were English.

Rodgers = probably the hardest to pick why he isn't giving Pacheco a chance but I suspect it's because he has already made up his mind to let him go in January. Was ready to sell him in the summer but kept him because the Dempsey deal fell through.



Here's a suggestion. How about next time judge how good a player is based on what you see on the pitch as opposed to postulating why he isn't being given game time by certain managers? Pacheco has been one of the outstanding players for the U21 team this season and for me that merits being given a chance against a team like Mansfield.

Your time would be better spent fixing the glaring holes in your own argument before labelling the arguments of others as shit.

[Reds and Revs]

He needs a loan to a place he will play, so a decision gets made.

He is past the reserves.

[Eeyore]

Not really. He played regularly under Luís André de Pina Cabral e Villas-Boas and was excellent.

But he didn't get a run under Scolari, Hiddink, Ancelotti, Di Matteo or Benitez  so doesn't that point to it being down to the manager having faith in an individual rather than the individual's ability.   

[b_joseph]

Here's a suggestion. How about next time judge how good a player is based on what you see on the pitch as opposed to postulating why he isn't being given game time by certain managers? Pacheco has been one of the outstanding players for the U21 team this season and for me that merits being given a chance against a team like Mansfield.

By the same token, the Manager is seeing him every single day when he trains to go along with his games in the reserves...so if he is judging that entire body of work, then his decisions will be based on more than what any of us can base it on.

Time will tell if he turns into something in the future for another club. But considering how willing this Manager has been to give young players games and how thin we have been in forward areas...it doesnt really paint a pretty picture for a player if he is still being left out.
And I doubt it has anything to do with the Boss having made up his mind because he had made up his mind about a few players this season and a number of them have quickly changed his mind to the point where Jose, Jordan and Downing are regular players now.

[b_joseph]

But he didn't get a run under Scolari, Hiddink, Ancelotti, Di Matteo or Benitez  so doesn't that point to it being down to the manager having faith in an individual rather than the individual's ability.   

Chelsea have a caliber of player that we dont come close to having. Not cracking the Chelsea team is more about what is infront of you than it is about you individually.

Scolari and Hiddink didnt coach him. And with Rafa, his fate had been sealed beforehand. Di Matteo changed the structure of the team and that structure didnt suit Sturridge being invovled as regularly as he was before.
Ancelotti, fair enough but he still played in excess of 35 games in 2 years which is not exactly a chump amount.

[Eeyore]

Absolutely I would.  Signing him is both a gamble and a sign of where we have slipped to in the pecking order.  We have to hope that Rodgers can get something out of him where others have failed.  In fairness I think the manager thought the same thing or he would have signed him in the summer.

And if we do make Pacheco available for transfer then his lack of appearances under a range of managers will be a huge factor for the clubs thinking of making a bid.

I think you are spot on Kev i think we also have to look at the quality of player both of them have had to compete with. Chelsea have had top quality strikers and Liverpool have had some top quality off the striker /  wide players.  I wonder how many games the likes of Suso or Sterling would of got if they had come through when Dani did.

[robgomm]

He's got to go on loan or something. He's 22 and played a handful of first-team games in his career. That loan deal to Atletico was dumb and it feels like we've been looking to get rid for a while. If we knew more about how he was viewed internally we could maybe explain it, as he does seem talented.

[longball]

Considering he has been the standout player for the reserves this season it looks very harsh.

Especially when Rodgers has said the following about the Mansfield game

Remember Enrique is injured and Cole is gone and Assaidi is off at the African Cup so the wide options are fairly limited.

Cant see the logic in not having Pacheco involved to give him a chance and rest Sterling/Downing/Suso.

Why would Downing or Suso need a rest? They've not played a lot of football this season.

[Veinticinco de Mayo]

I think you are spot on Kev i think we also have to look at the quality of player both of them have had to compete with. Chelsea have had top quality strikers and Liverpool have had some top quality off the striker /  wide players.  I wonder how many games the likes of Suso or Sterling would of got if they had come through when Dani did.

That's true, but at the same time you have to assume that their emergence in the current side ahead of Pacheco is on merit.  Unlike the lad above I am not about to start questioning the current manager, or many of his previous manager's, for not including him. 

[Eeyore]

That's true, but at the same time you have to assume that their emergence in the current side ahead of Pacheco is on merit.  Unlike the lad above I am not about to start questioning the current manager, or many of his previous manager's, for not including him. 

I think a fair bit of it is down to luck though Kev young players stagnate and lose confidence, sometimes things happen that give you a break at the right time and sometimes they don't. I think Pacheco's chance to make it at Anfield may of gone, As you say it's easy to blame managers but sometimes it just doesn't work out.

Maybe the best thing would be to move him on with a percentage of any future sale as a safety net for the Club.

[Saul Goodman]

He has ran the show for the U21's in a team which has scored goals for fun and is the only unbeaten U21's side in the country this season. The step up from that may be big but when you're consistently performing as Dani has done this season at underage level and look to have all the attributes that a manager like Rodgers would value in things such as awareness, touch, technique, pressing well and works hard off the ball then I think it's fair enough that people wonder why he hasn't gotten a chance tomorrow.

He played in one of our best performances of the season away at West Brom in the cup yet despite having carried that form on albeit at a lower level after being dropped back to the youth setup he can't get a look in tomorrow? It just doesn't make sense. If he had gotten the same number of chances as Suso this season I think he would have made a bigger impact.

[Chakan]

Just sell him already.

[peachybum]

Just sell him already.

I'd guess that nobody wants him.

[Chakan]

I'd guess that nobody wants him.

Sure somebody out there will take him. Get him playing games somewhere, cause it's not here.

[Veinticinco de Mayo]

He played in one of our best performances of the season away at West Brom in the cup yet despite having carried that form on albeit at a lower level after being dropped back to the youth setup he can't get a look in tomorrow? It just doesn't make sense. If he had gotten the same number of chances as Suso this season I think he would have made a bigger impact.

He did, but he has also had other games and not really impressed.  And the last bit is just total conjecture.

I have nothng against Dani at all, as Leo says above it there are huge doses of luck involved in the development of young players and perhaps it could have all turned out differently.  What I am not about to join in or condone though is the nonsensical conspiracy theories on here or the deriding of other players who are ahead of Pacheco in the pecking order

[Saul Goodman]

He did, but he has also had other games and not really impressed.  And the last bit is just total conjecture.

I have nothng against Dani at all, as Leo says above it there are huge doses of luck involved in the development of young players and perhaps it could have all turned out differently.  What I am not about to join in or condone though is the nonsensical conspiracy theories on here or the deriding of other players who are ahead of Pacheco in the pecking order

All I'm trying to get across is forget all the bullshit that surrounds him. He has had a very tough time with development in the last few years so why not judge him on this season and where he seems to be at now. If we had signed him as some unknown for £1m at the start of this season. He did quite well during the preseason trip. He has done quite well in very limited first team games. He has been one of if not the star performer at youth level this season. Judging it just on that I think people would be crying out for him to get more of a go. Fair enough if the manager doesn't rate him but it still doesn't change the fact that from the outside it looks odd.

[LFC_1981]

Really baffled as to why he can't get into the squad for tomorrow's game unless he's off on loan of he's to be sold.

Otherwise this season for u21 and his performance at West Brom should at least put him in the squad for tomorrow. Shame he's a good player who looks a very good talent.

[Thog]

We're looking to utilise the squad fully according to Rodgers yet we haven't even took Pacheco with us. He's not given him a chance in his favoured position which is wide left but has instead played him upfront. When he played wide in pre season against Toronto and Roma, he got an assist and beat the full back time and time again in those games. Shelvey was hardly great when deployed as a striker against West Ham, and even when he plays shit in midfield he's in favour. No, Pacheco isn't a world beater but he's a class above the rest in the reserves (even Suso wasn't hitting it off at that level) so surely he deserves a few chances.

[Veinticinco de Mayo]

Thanks Thog for so beautifully illustrating my point above.

[farawayred]

Not knowing much about Pacheco other than some reserve games, could it be that it's not his quality that limits his opportunities, but his attitude? I agree with what Thog said above, and I'm not trying to stir shit, but his loan within a loan comes to mind. Have multiple managers conspired to do the same to him and ruin his career? I kinda doubt that...

[steveeastend]

We're looking to utilise the squad fully according to Rodgers yet we haven't even took Pacheco with us. He's not given him a chance in his favoured position which is wide left but has instead played him upfront. When he played wide in pre season against Toronto and Roma, he got an assist and beat the full back time and time again in those games. Shelvey was hardly great when deployed as a striker against West Ham, and even when he plays shit in midfield he's in favour. No, Pacheco isn't a world beater but he's a class above the rest in the reserves (even Suso wasn't hitting it off at that level) so surely he deserves a few chances.

There could be a lot of reasons...

Personally, I think his best position would be center attacking midfield in our system as he isn´t quick and mobile enough for the defensive part when playing at the wing in our system. For this position though, center attacking midfield, he seems to be lacking some physical strength for Rodgers pressing game.

There is the need for Rodgers to look for physical balance here as our center midfield isn´t strong enough at the moment to close down the middle on their own. For that we need strong and mobile players upfront and for that Pachecho could be too "light" and soft in duels as Asaidi or Yesil despite their technical abilities.

But maybe it´s something different, maybe he is not "liked" within "the group"... 

[john_mac]

Not good enough

[Dirk18Kuyt]

I think "Oh yeah 4 managers haven't played him, can't be that good" but then you see his performances this season for the reserves and you see that wherever he's been on loan or whatever he's not been played regularly! He needs to get a run of games here or somewhere else. He's a good lad and I'm sure he puts the effort in.

[RedHandGang]

Quite simply who is he going to dislodge. Suso and Sterling are some way ahead of him. If he has the right attitude and is knocking on the door so to speak he may get another crack. He has quality but he might have to go elsewhere to get first team opportunities though so a sale may be best for everyone.

[RideTheWalrus]

Quite simply who is he going to dislodge. Suso and Sterling are some way ahead of him. If he has the right attitude and is knocking on the door so to speak he may get another crack. He has quality but he might have to go elsewhere to get first team opportunities though so a sale may be best for everyone.

But are Suso and Sterling some way ahead of him? Or is it just that they're getting play time. lad hasn't had a fair crack

[LFC_1981]

Exactly.

[Agger]

But are Suso and Sterling some way ahead of him? Or is it just that they're getting play time. lad hasn't had a fair crack

From what I've seen, he's not as good as them. And I can't possibly believe that Rodgers would miss something like that in training.

If he wants to have a decent football career, it's time to look for a new club.

[J24llen]

He put up a picture on instagram of temperatures in Malaga and just the text: Home

Now this may sound like a clichè, but I found it quite sad, he was one of the biggest talents in the world at that point and there were so big expectations for him, feel kinda sorry for the lad. Maybe he couldn't handle the pressure and the expectations when he got the chance on the highest level (though i think he should've been given more chances). 
A long journy is over for the young spaniard. It shows how hard it is to succeed at this level and reminds us how much many of the young ones coming through has sacrificed getting here. I could never have left my family 16 years of age to another country not speaking a word of their language.
Pacheco has always been fantastic with fans, taking pictures, tweeting with us etc. Not quite sure where i'm heading with this, but just wanted to say that we shouldn't jump on the backs of players' young as Pacheco, Shelvey, Suso, and so on when they play bad, it won't do any good.
 And I know many think it doesn't mean anything when one writes it in here or on twitter, but they Do read what people posts and tweets, they do. Was very sad to see the abuse Jonjo got before christmas, shows that they notice and care what people say, though they might not show it.

Sorry for going off-topic, but it can't be said enough how much we should appreciate our players, specially the young ones.
Good luck Daniel. (I reckon he'll leave this month, or in the summer. Either way)

[idontknow]

Very well put.

[Danny_]

Parting is such sweet sorrow!

[ziggyy]

Good luck little guy.

[Veinticinco de Mayo]

But are Suso and Sterling some way ahead of him? Or is it just that they're getting play time. lad hasn't had a fair crack

Clearly the manager thinks they are some way ahead of him and he sees more of him than any of us.