Topic: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics (*)

[hassinator]

was pondering last night on who would offer us a lot of what phil did but also perhaps be decent cover for firmino.

do we think there's any chance of getting dybala?  striker; secondary striker; AM and also a lefty.

given the prices touted for lemar he may offer better value too.

or has he been earmarked by barcelona?

[Goalposts for Jumpers]

hello jumpers for goalposts.  really enjoy your posts. 

what's jorginho's positioning like?  hoping it's excellent to compensate for lack of speed.

also guessing that under klopp he will never have been fitter and will be able to run, run, run all day long.

The closest like-for-like player, for me, would be Busquets, and Liverpool players of the last 30 years, probably Redknapp. I would say his main strengths are:

• Showing for the ball. He doesn't stop moving, and has that knack of always putting himself where he can be an out-ball for others and he is happy to receive it with a man on him. He's also an organiser, constantly telling his teammates where to move.
  

• Composure. He never panics, and he's one of those players who nearly always finds a teammate in a better position than himself, which makes him a great stress reliever when under a high press. He does, however, play quite a lot balls backwards and sideways. He's very much the metronome type.
  

• Passing. When he receives the ball in deep positions he takes next-to-no risks, and does end up playing a lot of passes backwards and sideways. One of my biggest worries would be that in his first few games in the PL he won't be up to speed and his safe passing might get the fans on his back initially (this happened with the Italian national team). This will be exacerbated if the defence don't initially trust him to receive the ball under pressure. However, once he finds his rhythm, he plays a lot of his short balls first time, off either foot, so doesn't slow the play down too much. He will eventually get up to speed and start finding the space to receive on the half-turn and then he'll start to flourish. He is capable of those super-incisive daisy-cutter forward passes that find the forwards when they drop off - he'll shape to switch play to an advancing full-back, but then play a disguised ball inside to the CF or advanced #8. This is what I think would've caught JKs attention - he gets the ball into dangerous areas super quick, cutting right through a pressing midfield. He is also capable of some delightful chipped through balls - this keeps defenders on their toes as the opposition don't know whether he'll go into feet or in behind.
  

• In the defensive phase, positioning and tactical intelligence are his standouts. He reads the game so well, that even though he plays as the deepest lying midfielder he somehow manages to make a ton of interceptions high up the pitch. Like Busquets, when the opposition are playing a low-block and clear their lines, the ball always seems to end up at him. His through balls are also excellent, so he ends up being quite a threat even though he's usually the deepest midfielder (1.7 chances created/90, compared to Hendo's 1.15, Can's 1.08 and Gini's 0.84).
  

All that said, he is definitely not quick, and like I said above, I have no idea how good in the air he is - he simply doesn't need to use that skill very often the way Napoli are set up. He's not the type of player who buzzes around the opposition, harrying them into mistakes, ala Mascherano. His defensive stats are good as a result of reading the game well, not his physicality. He actually runs a bit like Hendo in full stride! But it's my view that if you play a certain way you can minimise the negative impact of these flaws. He is certainly not someone you want chasing back a break-away from a corner (think that Sane breakaway in the first half at Anfield that he dragged wide). But how often does that actually happen? And can you plan to keep enough others back anyway?

I hope we get him, I think he's phenomenal.

Edit: trying to work out bullet points 

[hassinator]

now that's a fantastic breakdown, thank you

[ThePoolMan]

The closest like-for-like player, for me, would be Busquets, and Liverpool players of the last 30 years, probably Redknapp. I would say his main strengths are:

• Showing for the ball. He doesn't stop moving, and has that knack of always putting himself where he can be an out-ball for others and he is happy to receive it with a man on him. He's also an organiser, constantly telling his teammates where to move.
  

• Composure. He never panics, and he's one of those players who nearly always finds a teammate in a better position than himself, which makes him a great stress reliever when under a high press. He does, however, play quite a lot balls backwards and sideways. He's very much the metronome type.
  

• Passing. When he receives the ball in deep positions he takes next-to-no risks, and does end up playing a lot of passes backwards and sideways. One of my biggest worries would be that in his first few games in the PL he won't be up to speed and his safe passing might get the fans on his back initially (this happened with the Italian national team). This will be exacerbated if the defence don't initially trust him to receive the ball under pressure. However, once he finds his rhythm, he plays a lot of his short balls first time, off either foot, so doesn't slow the play down too much. He will eventually get up to speed and start finding the space to receive on the half-turn and then he'll start to flourish. He is capable of those super-incisive daisy-cutter forward passes that find the forwards when they drop off - he'll shape to switch play to an advancing full-back, but then play a disguised ball inside to the CF or advanced #8. This is what I think would've caught JKs attention - he gets the ball into dangerous areas super quick, cutting right through a pressing midfield. He is also capable of some delightful chipped through balls - this keeps defenders on their toes as the opposition don't know whether he'll go into feet or in behind.
  

• In the defensive phase, positioning and tactical intelligence are his standouts. He reads the game so well, that even though he plays as the deepest lying midfielder he somehow manages to make a ton of interceptions high up the pitch. Like Busquets, when the opposition are playing a low-block and clear their lines, the ball always seems to end up at him. His through balls are also excellent, so he ends up being quite a threat even though he's usually the deepest midfielder (1.7 chances created/90, compared to Hendo's 1.15, Can's 1.08 and Gini's 0.84).
  

All that said, he is definitely not quick, and like I said above, I have no idea how good in the air he is - he simply doesn't need to use that skill very often the way Napoli are set up. He's not the type of player who buzzes around the opposition, harrying them into mistakes, ala Mascherano. His defensive stats are good as a result of reading the game well, not his physicality. He actually runs a bit like Hendo in full stride! But it's my view that if you play a certain way you can minimise the negative impact of these flaws. He is certainly not someone you want chasing back a break-away from a corner (think that Sane breakaway in the first half at Anfield that he dragged wide). But how often does that actually happen? And can you plan to keep enough others back anyway?

I hope we get him, I think he's phenomenal.

Edit: trying to work out bullet points 

Sounds like Xabi Mk II ...sign him  areadyt!

[ThePoolMan]

Nothing (I never said he would). I think we'd do what Napoli do, and adapt to his strengths and weaknesses. I think his strengths would do so much for us it'd be unreal. He brings that calmness and amazing game intelligence. his forward passing would cause the opposition all sorts of problems as well. But we'd have to adapt to his lack of aerial ability and lack of speed. I don't think they would be major weaknesses in the way he would allow us to play.

I have only seen youtube videos of Jorginho but those accurate ling distance passes for the forwards to run onto would be absolutely perfect for Mane and Salah.

[lionel_messias]

was pondering last night on who would offer us a lot of what phil did but also perhaps be decent cover for firmino.

do we think there's any chance of getting dybala?  striker; secondary striker; AM and also a lefty.

given the prices touted for lemar he may offer better value too.

or has he been earmarked by barcelona?

Has been mentioned. Because he is considered an elite talent, or at least on the very cusp of that (and he's at Juventus of course), the buying price would be clear of £100 million imho - which places him at the centre of our attacking line-up, not sure I see it myself.

Yet if we brought players a touch below that level, like a Kevin Volland or Leon Bailey, the theory is they can rotate around what we have with Bobby, Mo and Sadio.

[clinical]

was pondering last night on who would offer us a lot of what phil did but also perhaps be decent cover for firmino.

do we think there's any chance of getting dybala?  striker; secondary striker; AM and also a lefty.

given the prices touted for lemar he may offer better value too.

or has he been earmarked by barcelona?

Fekir

He's played in both Coutinho and Firmino roles before, and as wide forward. He's got everything other than maybe top speed. But he's probably comparable to Firmino there. 

[hassinator]

Has been mentioned. Because he is considered an elite talent, or at least on the very cusp of that (and he's at Juventus of course), the buying price would be clear of £100 million imho - which places him at the centre of our attacking line-up, not sure I see it myself.

Yet if we brought players a touch below that level, like a Kevin Volland or Leon Bailey, the theory is they can rotate around what we have with Bobby, Mo and Sadio.

i was thinking he could play in our false 9 role or play from MF in a coutinho stylee.

[lionel_messias]

i was thinking he could play in our false 9 role or play from MF in a coutinho stylee.

Where's Bobby then?   


I reckon Keita and Oxlade will have our attacking midfield sown up, and whisper it........Naby could be way more productive than Coutinho there....and better defensively (which is a given).

[clinical]

Where's Bobby then?   


I reckon Keita and Oxlade will have our attacking midfield sown up, and whisper it........Naby could be way more productive than Coutinho there....and better defensively (which is a given).

The thing is with Bobby if he's out for whatever reason we simply aren't as good. We don't play as good football. Ideally we have a player who's as close as possible to him who can play in that position if need be. The player won't be as good but if he can do similar things we should miss him less if he's not available for any reason. No offence to Ings or Solanke but a club going for the title shouldn't be relying on them as first choice back ups.

[Barefoot Doctor]

Been seeing a few links with Alderwereld this week. Would be a great partner for VVD and sounds like he wants out at spurs.

I think we might sign a CB, but if we do it'll be someone fairly young. Certainly not someone who's 29, will cost £40m and be on huge wages. He'll end up at one of the Manchester clubs or abroad. After we signed Van Dijk, Mel Reddy was linking us to the likes of Akanji, Laporte and Gimenez who are all 22/23.

I'd be happy enough going into next season with Van Dijk, Matip, Lovren, Gomez and maybe Klavan - would definitely be prioritising a midfielder and attacker ahead of a CB.

[lionel_messias]

The thing is with Bobby if he's out for whatever reason we simply aren't as good. We don't play as good football. Ideally we have a player who's as close as possible to him who can play in that position if need be. The player won't be as good but if he can do similar things we should miss him less if he's not available for any reason. No offence to Ings or Solanke but a club going for the title shouldn't be relying on them as first choice back ups.

Yep, agree. But who is that player, Bobby has quite an unique skillset, especially the pressing and constant running, he's like a macho Luis Suarez, who is more than happy living outside the box and making hay for his forward colleagues.  Thomas Muller does the false nine thing (not suggesting him!) but none of the work thing.

Be interesting to see what people think

[clinical]

Yep, agree. But who is that player, Bobby has quite an unique skillset, especially the pressing and constant running, he's like a macho Luis Suarez, who is more than happy living outside the box and making hay for his forward colleagues.  Thomas Muller does the false nine thing (not suggesting him!) but none of the work thing.

Be interesting to see what people think

I mentioned it above but also see the stats table in the Firmino thread Fekir is near Sanchez and Muller who both could arguably play that role but age is catching up to them.

Fekir is at the age where he's good now but can improve further. He's probably the best fit imo.

[BabuYagu]

Yep, agree. But who is that player, Bobby has quite an unique skillset, especially the pressing and constant running, he's like a macho Luis Suarez, who is more than happy living outside the box and making hay for his forward colleagues.  Thomas Muller does the false nine thing (not suggesting him!) but none of the work thing.

Be interesting to see what people think

I think you watch a different Müller then. He is famously hard working off the ball.

[Jookie]

The closest like-for-like player, for me, would be Busquets, and Liverpool players of the last 30 years, probably Redknapp.

(snip)

I hope we get him, I think he's phenomenal.

I hope he's better than Redknapp, who was a long way from being phenomenal. Jordan Henderson now is way better than Jamie Redknapp ever was. So is Emre Can.

And for anyone saying we should buy a centre back this season I think you are wrong. That should be way down our priority list. No. 6, Coutinho replacement and Mignolet replacement should all definitely be bigger priorities this summer. I think an additional forward would be before a CB too.

From tactical perspective, Naby Keita is going to bring a lot to our attacking midfield in terms of attacking contribution but also having someone who can press and win the ball back higher up the pitch. With that in mind does that relieve the pressure on us to have someone who is Firmino-esque in reserve. Could we get away with a back-up forward who is not necessarily as equipped in the pressing side of things as long as they are a goal threat and have mobility to pull defences out of position? Just a thought though I'm not sure if it does. Be interested to hear thoughts from the posters who have more tactical insight than myself.

[Gutzon Borglum]

I mentioned it above but also see the stats table in the Firmino thread Fekir is near Sanchez and Muller who both could arguably play that role but age is catching up to them.

Fekir is at the age where he's good now but can improve further. He's probably the best fit imo.

Fekir looks like a guy who could give us that 4th top class option in the front 3, his numbers this season suggest he has elite quality. However for me there are other options out there like Dybala and Werner who I think would fit in even better with this side, and they have both proven themselves at higher levels for me.

If we can spend pretty much all of what Phil was sold for to buy his replacement, there are very view ungettable players out there.

[Djimi Smicer34]

Fekir looks like a guy who could give us that 4th top class option in the front 3, his numbers this season suggest he has elite quality. However for me there are other options out there like Dybala and Werner who I think would fit in even better with this side, and they have both proven themselves at higher levels for me.

If we can spend pretty much all of what Phil was sold for to buy his replacement, there are very view ungettable players out there.

We're not signing Dybala or Werner, they're non-starters in terms of being targets for the summer.

I really doubt we'll look to sign Fekir either.

[redk84]

And for anyone saying we should buy a centre back this season I think you are wrong. That should be way down our priority list. No. 6, Coutinho replacement and Mignolet replacement should all definitely be bigger priorities this summer. I think an additional forward would be before a CB too.

Absolutely.

For me it comes down to this......No.6 and Coutinho replacement are the priorities. Our midfield needs a restructure.

Goalkeeper for Migs is next. He's done here.

Then its a toss up between CB cover and Attacking 3 cover. We have Klavan/Matip/Gomez compared to Ings/Solanke.....i think the attacking 3 need better cover for sure

[JackWard33]

Absolutely.

For me it comes down to this......No.6 and Coutinho replacement are the priorities. Our midfield needs a restructure.

Goalkeeper for Migs is next. He's done here.

Then its a toss up between CB cover and Attacking 3 cover. We have Klavan/Matip/Gomez compared to Ings/Solanke.....i think the attacking 3 need better cover for sure

Attacking 3 is the top priority - competition not cover
It’s by far the biggest hole in our squad

[Dim Glas]

Absolutely.

For me it comes down to this......No.6 and Coutinho replacement are the priorities. Our midfield needs a restructure.

Goalkeeper for Migs is next. He's done here.

Then its a toss up between CB cover and Attacking 3 cover. We have Klavan/Matip/Gomez compared to Ings/Solanke.....i think the attacking 3 need better cover for sure

yep, midfield is what needs looking at most, of course Keita coming in, is one step already taken. There is a definate improvment that can be made there to the starting 11, especially with Can leaving too. And after that, better options upfront beyond the starters..

I am not sure what will happen regards replacing Mignolet, who surely will be sold this summer if they can get a buyer. Do they go with experienced, or go with another younger goalie. I guess we'll see soon enough.

[Goalposts for Jumpers]

I hope he's better than Redknapp, who was a long way from being phenomenal. Jordan Henderson now is way better than Jamie Redknapp ever was. So is Emre Can.

And for anyone saying we should buy a centre back this season I think you are wrong. That should be way down our priority list. No. 6, Coutinho replacement and Mignolet replacement should all definitely be bigger priorities this summer. I think an additional forward would be before a CB too.

From tactical perspective, Naby Keita is going to bring a lot to our attacking midfield in terms of attacking contribution but also having someone who can press and win the ball back higher up the pitch. With that in mind does that relieve the pressure on us to have someone who is Firmino-esque in reserve. Could we get away with a back-up forward who is not necessarily as equipped in the pressing side of things as long as they are a goal threat and have mobility to pull defences out of position? Just a thought though I'm not sure if it does. Be interested to hear thoughts from the posters who have more tactical insight than myself.

I meant it in the stylistic sense of "most like". He's like Redknapp in the sense that he has that calmness on the ball and likes to play simple, quick, short passes. But I would say he is more incisive with his passing, and has much better tactical intelligence and defensive nous than our Jamie. Even still, I think you're letting your judgement of Redknapp as a player be slightly clouded by his shit punditry and other TV appearances  . The next closest red to Jorginho style-wise is probably Xabi (if that helps). But Xabi always had a tendency to stay rather central and spray balls out all over the place - whereas Jorg constantly goes looking for the ball and likes to keep things short and ticking over. Defensively Alonso was also a lot more of a physical barrier, as well as reading the game impeccably. Jorg is certainly no where near as physically imposing as Alonso. I guess Jorginho is somewhere between Redknapp and Alonso (stylistically). But a lot nearer Alonso in terms of actual quality.

I actually really liked Redknapp as a player  . Remember going to watch us at St Mary's, and he controlled the game from start to finish. Remember getting home and watching the game back, and  his stats being absolutely phenomenal - something like 106 completed passes at 98% completion, or something ridiculous. He was the right-footed Redondo, and massively underrated. Way better than Can (in my opinion). Not as much as an all-rounder as Hendo, but better in some parts of his game. TBF I was only a kid at the time so could be wrong .

[Chalky Boots]

I hope he's better than Redknapp, who was a long way from being phenomenal. Jordan Henderson now is way better than Jamie Redknapp ever was. So is Emre Can.

And for anyone saying we should buy a centre back this season I think you are wrong. That should be way down our priority list. No. 6, Coutinho replacement and Mignolet replacement should all definitely be bigger priorities this summer. I think an additional forward would be before a CB too.

I think the Coutinho replacement will tie into the attacking cover, don't think there's anything to replace in him with regards to a midfielder or at least Chamberlain is showing more in the role intended for Phil than Phil did earlier on this season.

[hassinator]

Yep, agree. But who is that player, Bobby has quite an unique skillset, especially the pressing and constant running, he's like a macho Luis Suarez, who is more than happy living outside the box and making hay for his forward colleagues.  Thomas Muller does the false nine thing (not suggesting him!) but none of the work thing.

Be interesting to see what people think

this is why i was suggesting dybala?

he could also start as an MF but - as a few people have probably already pointed out - ox and naby are going to be bursting forward in the 8 slots.

[hassinator]

I actually really liked Redknapp as a player  . Remember going to watch us at St Mary's, and he controlled the game from start to finish. Remember getting home and watching the game back, and  his stats being absolutely phenomenal - something like 106 completed passes at 98% completion, or something ridiculous. He was the right-footed Redondo, and massively underrated. Way better than Can (in my opinion). Not as much as an all-rounder as Hendo, but better in some parts of his game. TBF I was only a kid at the time so could be wrong .

same. redknapp was an excellent player.  a tragedy that his career was so limited by injury.

[hassinator]

An elite passer would definitely improve us there but there are so few of them that are defensively good and mobile enough .... try and make a list it’s super tough - most of them are at super rich clubs ... possible we get younger player who doesn’t play all the games initially .... dunno. It’s tough

suggestion from a portuguese journalist on twitter that ruben neves is also strongly under consideration for the 6 role.

bigger at 6'; much more robust and also very good passer from deep. 

not sure he's absolutely in the same class as jorginho in those stakes but definitely fits the bill more in physicality.

[Goalposts for Jumpers]

same. redknapp was an excellent player.  a tragedy that his career was so limited by injury.

I was young enough to give a shit about Ingerland at the time, and was always gutted that he was literally never fit to play for his country. At a time when David Batty and Sicknote Anderson were getting games.

[Barefoot Doctor]

suggestion from a portuguese journalist on twitter that ruben neves is also strongly under consideration for the 6 role.

bigger at 6'; much more robust and also very good passer from deep. 

not sure he's absolutely in the same class as jorginho in those stakes but definitely fits the bill more in physicality.

I'd be surprised if we weren't scouting him extensively. Pep Lijnders was obsessed with him, wasn't he? Sure he would have told Klopp to consider signing him when he was at Porto. And now he's shown he can handle the physicality of the English game. I think he'd be gettable too, surely the only way Mendes got him to Wolves was by ensuring it would be easy to get him out if a big club came along...

[RyanBabel19]

suggestion from a portuguese journalist on twitter that ruben neves is also strongly under consideration for the 6 role.

bigger at 6'; much more robust and also very good passer from deep. 

not sure he's absolutely in the same class as jorginho in those stakes but definitely fits the bill more in physicality.

Would love him here, said we should go for him when we were first linked and was quite suprised Wolves got him (before i saw their links with Mendes)

[Jookie]

Even still, I think you're letting your judgement of Redknapp as a player be slightly clouded by his shit punditry and other TV appearances  .

I actually really liked Redknapp as a player  . Remember going to watch us at St Mary's, and he controlled the game from start to finish. Remember getting home and watching the game back, and  his stats being absolutely phenomenal - something like 106 completed passes at 98% completion, or something ridiculous. He was the right-footed Redondo, and massively underrated. Way better than Can (in my opinion). Not as much as an all-rounder as Hendo, but better in some parts of his game. TBF I was only a kid at the time so could be wrong .

Don't have Sky so hardly ever heard Redknapp as a pundit. Always thought he was over rated though he may actually be more suited to football in this era than the one he played in.

Redknapp was a good technical player but he wasn't top quality. In style he may have been reasonably similar to someone like Redondo (and had a similar injury record) but the quality level was definitely different. I remember seeing Redondo twice inspire Tenerife to beat Real Madrid on the last game of the season to deny them the league. He was brilliant for Real Madrid as well. If Jorginho is anything like Redondo then we would be onto a winner if we signed him.

If we believe that someone like Jorginho is a deep lying midfielder then I don't see him slotting in at No.6. Would he play more the Can/Wijanaldum role when Henderson/Can is playing as the No.6? It seems a slight departure to go for someone like Jorginho in the No.6 role. Particularly if he's not strong in the air.

[BabuYagu]

Just wanted to drop some random data in here split into Full backs, Center Mid, Forwards. Will also put players on loan from the club at the end too.

Full Backs

Code: [Select]

Player Name G+A/90 SoT+Drib+KP/90
Trent Alexander-Arnold 0,14 3,25
Joseph Gomez 0,1 1,94
Alberto Moreno 0 1,66
Andrew Robertson 0,2 1,62

To give some context, here are their counterparts at the other top 6 clubs.

Code: [Select]

Player Name G+A/90 SoT+Drib+KP/90
Victor Moses 0,2 3,07
Marcos Alonso 0,27 2,99
Ben Davies 0,35 2,89
Kieran Trippier 0,22 2,56
Fabian Delph 0,12 2,52
Ashley Young 0,2 2,29
Héctor Bellerín 0,1 2,27
Antonio Valencia 0,14 1,9
Kyle Walker 0,2 1,81
Sead Kolasinac 0,24 1,61

Don't forget that set piece involvement will influence numbers.

[BabuYagu]

/snip

Center Mids

Code: [Select]

Player Name G+A/90 SoT+Drib+KP/90
Adam Lallana* 0 6,58
Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain 0,48 6,19
Georginio Wijnaldum 0,09 3,42
Emre Can 0,3 2,88
James Milner 0,17 2,48
Jordan Henderson 0,1 1,97

Keita (Leipzig) 0,51 6,38
Ejaria (Sunderland) 0 5,2
Grujic (Cardiff) 0,09 3,04
To give some context, here are their counterparts at the other top 6 clubs.

Code: [Select]

Player Name G+A/90 SoT+Drib+KP/90
Kevin De Bruyne 0,71 6,66
Paul Pogba 0,7 6,21
Mesut Özil 0,5 5,74
Jack Wilshere 0,24 5
David Silva 0,76 4,95
Cesc Fàbregas 0,22 4,92
Dele Alli 0,6 4,57
Aaron Ramsey 0,69 4,51
Jesse Lingard 0,67 4,5
Mousa Dembélé 0 4,39
Tiemoué Bakayoko 0,2 3,21
N'Golo Kanté 0,07 2,9
Granit Xhaka 0,19 2,81
Nemanja Matic 0,06 2,43
Fernandinho 0,21 2,25
Eric Dier 0,07 1,5

*Denotes a very small sample size of less than six games.

[BabuYagu]

/snip

Forwards

Code: [Select]

Player Name G+A/90 SoT+Drib+KP/90
Mohamed Salah 1,36 7,8
Daniel Sturridge* 0,53 7,42
Sadio Mané 0,77 6,28
Dominic Solanke* 0,19 6,23
Roberto Firmino 0,8 5,32
Danny Ings* 0 4,23

Wilson (Hull) 0,99 5,09
Ojo (Fulham) 0,39 4,95
Kent (Bristol City) 0,33 4,28
Kent (Freiburg)* 0 4,06
Origi (Wolfsburg) 0,37 3,48

To give some context, here are their counterparts at the other top 6 clubs.

Code: [Select]

Player Name G+A/90 SoT+Drib+KP/90
Eden Hazard 0,63 11,1
Willian 0,66 7,79
Alexis Sánchez 0,59 7,53
Sergio Agüero 1,23 7,5
Raheem Sterling 1 6,48
Harry Kane 0,92 6,48
Leroy Sané 0,92 6,24
Pedro 0,4 6,1
Son Heung-Min 0,71 6,09
Álvaro Morata 0,81 5,53
Anthony Martial 0,92 5,43
Marcus Rashford 0,67 5,35
Alex Iwobi 0,44 5,2
Christian Eriksen 0,62 4,8
Alexandre Lacazette 0,64 4,59
Henrikh Mkhitaryan 0,72 4,37
Romelu Lukaku 0,71 4,03
Juan Mata 0,36 4,01
P-E. Aubameyang 1,03 3,98

These numbers indicate his output (goals and assists) and input (dribbles, shots, key passes) in terms of attacking play. Players who score highly will tend to be particularly useful against a low block. Players who tend to score high in output, low in input (e.g. Aubameyang) could either have a very high success rate, which may or may not be sustainable long term, and likely to be players rarely involved in build up just putting the final touch on attacks. Players with low output, high input will tend to be penetration players (e.g. Wilshire, Dembele, Fabregas) who are linking the defensive players to the attacking players trying to break through the lines.

[PaulF]

Do we think there's much need to change tactics ? Maybe its red tinted glasses, but we were bossing a lot of games we dropped points in, especially earlier in the season. Do we need more options in terms of tactics, or will better players especially in depth give us enough for a title challenge.

Interesting point made earlier that klopp seems to be building a CL team with the league as a spin off, with Rogers doing the opposite. You could argue that mouriniho is building a team more for the league where he rarely drops points to lesser teams. Is pep more like klopp with a cl aim, but he has the players to piss the league as a bonus?

[BabuYagu]

Do we think there's much need to change tactics ? Maybe its red tinted glasses, but we were bossing a lot of games we dropped points in, especially earlier in the season. Do we need more options in terms of tactics, or will better players especially in depth give us enough for a title challenge.

Interesting point made earlier that klopp seems to be building a CL team with the league as a spin off, with Rogers doing the opposite. You could argue that mouriniho is building a team more for the league where he rarely drops points to lesser teams. Is pep more like klopp with a cl aim, but he has the players to piss the league as a bonus?

Possession (mostly tactical & technical players) sides tend to dominate leagues. They are susceptible to losing games on the counter though which can hurt them in knockout competitions. Counter attacking/defensive (Physical & tactical players) sides tend to struggle more in the league to accumulate enough points to beat a dominant possession based side. But succeed better in knockout tournaments where sides will come at them.

However, Klopp's ultimate aim appears to be a possession based side that can counter press at lightening speed. He was left with a lot of technical players who had weaknesses either physically (e.g. Allen, Luis Alberto, Teixiera) or tactically (e.g. Can, Henderson, Markovic) and some players who were just entirely unsuited to his system (e.g. Balotelli, Benteke, Skrtel, Mignolet).

This will be hard to put together because almost all players have weaknesses. So trying to put together a side that can dominate the ball, technically good enough to unlock a tight defence, physically capable to aggressively gegenpress and explode on teams once they regain possession AND be good enough tactically to do all that without allowing the opposition to expose your vulnerabilities when committing such numbers to the attacking and transition phases will be a big ask. But that is what we seem to be looking for in the front 7 positions in the attacking phase (FB, CM, FWs). It remains to be seen what the #6 will look like - my guess will still be someone capable of competing in the air and playing quick passes more than a controller (e.g. Dier, Saul, Bender, Fabinho). Grujic may even be a possible here. Would love nothing more than for him to come back and make the spot his own next season.

Then we will have two center backs capable of dealing with threats in the air, in behind or in front of them. Both VVD & Lovren seem to fit the bill there, although there are still question marks over whether Lovrens level can remain high consistently over the course of the full season. I still believe passive players will ultimately hurt us in the system in the long run - like Mignolet, Klavan & Matip. Aggression, bravery and determination seem vital from front to back. Gomez is something of an unknown quantity at CB too. He has a worrying problem with balls in the air and seems to have some awareness/decision making issues. But then we also forget how young he is to be playing at this level as much as he has already.

Then looking at midfield, this is where the Chamberlain and Keita signings really stand out. Plus Gini, in that he has no real weaknesses to his game physically, tactically or technically. My biggest criticism is he lacks the aggression someone like Keita has to leave his mark on every game. He will happily be the water carrier. But then that likely will not be a problem with the right players around him. We are missing a proper #6 though to give us that physical/tactical option where we need it. The player we all hoped Can would develop into. Also think there is hope for Ejaria too. There has been some glowing reports of him picking sides apart at U21 and in the Championship this season from center midfield.

The front 3 look perfect for the task. There is a quality question over Ings & Solanke. I still think the latter is doing all the right things with great numbers in terms of input, but has been a disallowed goal, the crossbar, or a rushed snapshot against Everton away from getting something for his good work. Wilson seems like he is on the right path at Hull - can he translate that to here? We probably need another at a level closer to the three starters though.

So in summary, I am not sure the tactics will (or need to) change. We just lack 2 players in the spine of our team and some depth in attack. We have finally sorted out the GK and CB position with quality since January, now we likely just need a #6 that protects our attacks and the back 4 and gets the ball into CM & FB quickly and efficiently. Plus another penetrative midfielder between the lines for more depth who can also play as a forward. I reckon we sort that out and we can start to push City in the league a lot harder next season. Although in reality if they are just going to amass 90+ points then there is little that can be done to stop them in reality.

We just need to focus on ourselves, what we can do, and put together a side ourselves capable of 85+ point seasons. I really don't think we are far off. We are already going to be getting very close to 80 points this season - we are currently on course for a projected 78,24 points if we can continue out average ppg so far this season. If we take 1 January as the starting point with VVD & Karius as first choice in their positions in the spine of our team, we have 9W, 2D & 2L in 13 games - which would be a 84,77 points in a 38 game season.

Not far off at all IMO.

[ThePoolMan]

The thing is with Bobby if he's out for whatever reason we simply aren't as good. We don't play as good football. Ideally we have a player who's as close as possible to him who can play in that position if need be. The player won't be as good but if he can do similar things we should miss him less if he's not available for any reason. No offence to Ings or Solanke but a club going for the title shouldn't be relying on them as first choice back ups.

Juventus would probably quote the Coutinho price tag and try to ask for even more than 142M for Dybala. If we spent that sort of money, he would have to play, and that would mean one of the trident that we are now using will be displaced and I am not having that as they are already one of if not the most lethal attacking lineup in Europe.  As well, Dybala doesnt seem to have as much sheer pace as Mane or Salah and so he would end up displacing Firmino but he would not do half as much pressing as Firmino would do and that would not be good for our overlal play.

Fekir on the other hand would cost a lot less and offer almost as many goals but more defensive contribution than Dybala, and be able to be rotated with Firmino in order to give him a rest and offer depth and conserve him for a long season where we need the squad to compete on different fronts.

[ThePoolMan]

Possession (mostly tactical & technical players) sides tend to dominate leagues. They are susceptible to losing games on the counter though which can hurt them in knockout competitions. Counter attacking/defensive (Physical & tactical players) sides tend to struggle more in the league to accumulate enough points to beat a dominant possession based side. But succeed better in knockout tournaments where sides will come at them.

However, Klopp's ultimate aim appears to be a possession based side that can counter press at lightening speed. He was left with a lot of technical players who had weaknesses either physically (e.g. Allen, Luis Alberto, Teixiera) or tactically (e.g. Can, Henderson, Markovic) and some players who were just entirely unsuited to his system (e.g. Balotelli, Benteke, Skrtel, Mignolet).

This will be hard to put together because almost all players have weaknesses. So trying to put together a side that can dominate the ball, technically good enough to unlock a tight defence, physically capable to aggressively gegenpress and explode on teams once they regain possession AND be good enough tactically to do all that without allowing the opposition to expose your vulnerabilities when committing such numbers to the attacking and transition phases will be a big ask. But that is what we seem to be looking for in the front 7 positions in the attacking phase (FB, CM, FWs). It remains to be seen what the #6 will look like - my guess will still be someone capable of competing in the air and playing quick passes more than a controller (e.g. Dier, Saul, Bender, Fabinho). Grujic may even be a possible here. Would love nothing more than for him to come back and make the spot his own next season.

Then we will have two center backs capable of dealing with threats in the air, in behind or in front of them. Both VVD & Lovren seem to fit the bill there, although there are still question marks over whether Lovrens level can remain high consistently over the course of the full season. I still believe passive players will ultimately hurt us in the system in the long run - like Mignolet, Klavan & Matip. Aggression, bravery and determination seem vital from front to back. Gomez is something of an unknown quantity at CB too. He has a worrying problem with balls in the air and seems to have some awareness/decision making issues. But then we also forget how young he is to be playing at this level as much as he has already.

Then looking at midfield, this is where the Chamberlain and Keita signings really stand out. Plus Gini, in that he has no real weaknesses to his game physically, tactically or technically. My biggest criticism is he lacks the aggression someone like Keita has to leave his mark on every game. He will happily be the water carrier. But then that likely will not be a problem with the right players around him. We are missing a proper #6 though to give us that physical/tactical option where we need it. The player we all hoped Can would develop into. Also think there is hope for Ejaria too. There has been some glowing reports of him picking sides apart at U21 and in the Championship this season from center midfield.

The front 3 look perfect for the task. There is a quality question over Ings & Solanke. I still think the latter is doing all the right things with great numbers in terms of input, but has been a disallowed goal, the crossbar, or a rushed snapshot against Everton away from getting something for his good work. Wilson seems like he is on the right path at Hull - can he translate that to here? We probably need another at a level closer to the three starters though.

So in summary, I am not sure the tactics will (or need to) change. We just lack 2 players in the spine of our team and some depth in attack. We have finally sorted out the GK and CB position with quality since January, now we likely just need a #6 that protects our attacks and the back 4 and gets the ball into CM & FB quickly and efficiently. Plus another penetrative midfielder between the lines for more depth who can also play as a forward. I reckon we sort that out and we can start to push City in the league a lot harder next season. Although in reality if they are just going to amass 90+ points then there is little that can be done to stop them in reality.

We just need to focus on ourselves, what we can do, and put together a side ourselves capable of 85+ point seasons. I really don't think we are far off. We are already going to be getting very close to 80 points this season - we are currently on course for a projected 78,24 points if we can continue out average ppg so far this season. If we take 1 January as the starting point with VVD & Karius as first choice in their positions in the spine of our team, we have 9W, 2D & 2L in 13 games - which would be a 84,77 points in a 38 game season.

Not far off at all IMO.

BabuYagu, it sounds like from what you are describing that we will need the #6 to be a physically powerful, strong in the air yet tactically adept player who has a very good passing game whether short or long. Does that seems to rule out the likes of Jorginho then? I was imagining  that with his accurate deep passing he would be able to consistently feed Salah or Mane in the channels between the FB and CB and provide an extra dimension to our play.

It would seem then that a player like Sergej Milinkovic-Savic would be more suitable then as he seems to tick all the boxes of what you were describing for the #6?

[hassinator]

yep, midfield is what needs looking at most, of course Keita coming in, is one step already taken. There is a definate improvment that can be made there to the starting 11, especially with Can leaving too. And after that, better options upfront beyond the starters..

re can he still hasn't declared for juve so wonder if he's either staying or going to city?  juve had set a deadline (yesterday) for him to declare for them but they're leaving the door open.

I am not sure what will happen regards replacing Mignolet, who surely will be sold this summer if they can get a buyer. Do they go with experienced, or go with another younger goalie. I guess we'll see soon enough.

napoli were mentioned as being interested in january.  also linked to moreno last summer but didn't want to pay £15m.

[hassinator]

I'd be surprised if we weren't scouting him extensively. Pep Lijnders was obsessed with him, wasn't he? Sure he would have told Klopp to consider signing him when he was at Porto. And now he's shown he can handle the physicality of the English game. I think he'd be gettable too, surely the only way Mendes got him to Wolves was by ensuring it would be easy to get him out if a big club came along...

do you have any links to what pep said about him as i'd love to read up?

[hassinator]

babu i hadn't read any reports about ejaria on loan can you point me in the right direction? 

sunderland are bottom of the table and facing relegation again but can't blame all that on ovie.

i know grujic has been doing well for cardiff but a 'what next?' piece in yesterday's echo didn't seem too optimistic.

[lionel_messias]

As soon as Ruben Neves was placed at Wolves by Mendes I thought he was destined for a Champions League club.

Either Neves or Jorginho with Keita and Oxlade ahead of them, and three spinning targets in Mo, Sadio, Bobby is an absolutely frightening prospect and a mouth-watering one for all Liverpool fans.

Backed up too by Milner, Hendo, Woodburn, Gini W, Harry Wilson.

Our tactical goal will be to turn large-scale possession into goals, when buses are parked and if anyone gives us space, then we'll slice them open as the best counter-attackers in the league.

Fitness/squad strength goal should be to enable one or more of the front-three regular-ish games or portions of games off for a breather. And to have a strong enough layer of talent beneath them to be serious about F.A. Cup and maybe even League cup as well.