Author Topic: Those chants  (Read 185387 times)

Offline Paul JH

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Re: Those chants
« Reply #1840 on: March 18, 2024, 11:36:48 am »
The BBC have a small article on it, but most damning is that the Manchester Guardian doesn't report it at all.

They always, maybe for legal reasons, say 'alleged' also ... no, it's not 'alleged', they fucking did it, hence the arrest.
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Offline Circa1892

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Re: Those chants
« Reply #1841 on: March 18, 2024, 11:44:53 am »
The BBC have a small article on it, but most damning is that the Manchester Guardian doesn't report it at all.

Of course they don't. Half their journos were probably singing it.

Offline redgriffin73

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Re: Those chants
« Reply #1842 on: March 18, 2024, 12:22:18 pm »
Was there any mention of it during the game from any reporters, like on Twitter or a live blog etc? I'm thinking more James Pearce et al I guess than in general.
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Re: Those chants
« Reply #1843 on: March 18, 2024, 12:31:21 pm »
No chance of getting a ticket for yesterday, but it came through loud and clear on the TV and radio. Was watching with my 12 year old and he even mentioned it ☹️

My 7 year old daughter asked me what they were singing.
She's too young to explain it to in any detail, but she has a fair idea due to the little things I've mentioned in the past about Hillsborough and visiting the memorial at Anfield etc.
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Offline rob1966

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Re: Those chants
« Reply #1844 on: March 18, 2024, 12:50:32 pm »
My 7 year old daughter asked me what they were singing.
She's too young to explain it to in any detail, but she has a fair idea due to the little things I've mentioned in the past about Hillsborough and visiting the memorial at Anfield etc.

I said to my kids "that shite is why I was never ever alowing you to be Utd fans" as it blasted our clear as day, the fucking c*nts. They know about the people I knew who died at Hillsborough, they know about my mate who survived, they know our kid was mates with Kev Williams and they've asked to see the memorial and see his name on it when we were at the game. I've also told them any c*nt says anything at school they've got my permission to batter them and I'll tell the school to fuck off if they try to discipline them.
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Offline MH41

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Re: Those chants
« Reply #1845 on: March 18, 2024, 01:25:28 pm »
It's yet another spineless statement from the FA (how many statements must they make before any action is taken)
"We are aware of the reported tragedy chanting during today's FA cup fixture between Manchester United and Liverpool....."
Why not state "from Manchester United fans"? It's quite simple.
The only way to put an end to this is to throw them out of the competition, and give Coventry a bye to the final. That is what it is going to take.
Would I be annoyed if we were thrown out because a section of our fans ever did similar? Absolutely. But I bet that the vast majority of fans would make damn sure it would never happen again.
We've been talking about this with man Utd now for at least 20 years. Do something about it, or  stop with your spineless statements.

I'm just quoting my thoughts on the tragedy chanting before trying to ask a question the correct way.
I understand why we boo the English national anthem, but whilst we continue to do so (along with people remembering the chants when the Queen died) we will continue to receive no sympathy whatsoever, and we will continue to be 'fair game' for the horrible chants.
Do we need to get our own house in order as well?
I know this might be a touchy subject. I'm Irish, and from a nationalist background, but I am not comfortable with the booing etc. There could be a better way to make a stance? Do we need to continue to make a stance? Everyone knows we're anti establishment. I'm fine with "F**k the Tories" by the way. They're the ones we need to be targeting.
Apologies in advance, but just my thoughts.

Offline jillcwhomever

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Re: Those chants
« Reply #1846 on: March 18, 2024, 01:36:01 pm »
I don't want to bash the club but it hasn't got any thing on the website at all. Why not? According to GMP they are "working with both clubs." The lack of any sort of acknowledgement of what went on yesterday is appalling. It's just confirmation that this is normal now and not even the club can be arsed to do anything. As for the four chumps who stood there while the crowd vented their poison, shame on them, including a so called club "legend." I frankly despair.
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Re: Those chants
« Reply #1847 on: March 18, 2024, 01:37:25 pm »
Was there any mention of it during the game from any reporters, like on Twitter or a live blog etc? I'm thinking more James Pearce et al I guess than in general.

The usual Liverpool based reporters (Pearce, couple of the Echo guys) called it out at the time. Not sure about anyone ‘national’ but more because I dont follow them!

Offline jillcwhomever

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Re: Those chants
« Reply #1848 on: March 18, 2024, 01:37:50 pm »
Was there any mention of it during the game from any reporters, like on Twitter or a live blog etc? I'm thinking more James Pearce et al I guess than in general.

Not that I could see. The only guy who mentioned it this morning bless him, was David Conn. The rest of them have been noticeable by their absence, still celebrating United's win I assume.  ::)
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Offline Jwils21

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Re: Those chants
« Reply #1849 on: March 18, 2024, 01:53:15 pm »
I make a very foolish mistake recently and reactivated Twitter, thinking that I could limit the amount of shite by just following the LFC journos and fanpages and blocking the usual shock jocks like Sky Sports, so I’d have an echo chamber of Liverpool content.

How wrong I was - within minutes of the final whistle a click on the trending page showed that “Victims”, “Heysel” and of course “Hillsborough” were all trending. Not just a few tweets, but enough to have them trending in the UK. All the usual shouts were there, the endless tiring debates about how “Always the Victims, it’s never your fault” excludes the most obvious situation where Liverpool fans were victims of something accused of being their fault, but it was actually about Klopp blaming the wind for a loss or something.

Then there’s the whataboutery, allegedly there were a few divvy’s in our end doing aeroplane gestures, so therefore 75% of Old Trafford singing “The Sun was right” is apparently fair game. A flare was also “thrown directly at the disabled section”, typical Liverpool scum behaviour, not just an isolated incident where one person (maybe not even intentionally) dropped a flare and it landed in the area directly below. It was intentional, the whole LFC fan base egged him on, it’s their fault.

The personal solution is to bin it, and that’s fine. But the discussions on there spew out into the real world, they form people’s opinions and beliefs, and the cycle goes on forever. Even if the club come out and start reducing away allocations, there will always be those never ending flawed arguments justifying the mocking of dead men, women and children. I don’t know what it takes to change the optics on our club and city, I don’t see how it changes, but something has to. It’s far from a few dickheads, it’s people all over the country plastering us with tired shitty cliches and it fucking stinks.

And then they wonder why we boo the anthem and won’t stand arm in arm with them cheering on England. Fuck off.

Offline WhereAngelsPlay

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Re: Those chants
« Reply #1850 on: March 18, 2024, 03:14:26 pm »
Talking about songs not making sense, I also heard that Park Ji-Sung one get an airing towards the end as well.

Been a while since I’ve heard that, must be the worst player song I’ve ever heard. Nice little touch of casual racism thrown in there as well, they really covered themselves in glory yesterday didn’t they?


They sang it in the first 10 minutes and throughout.
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Re: Those chants
« Reply #1851 on: March 18, 2024, 04:37:38 pm »
Could we start a proper e mail campaign ?. Like when we bombarded banks to stop Hicks getting a refinance job. The Premier League, MUFC, LFC.

Offline WhereAngelsPlay

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Re: Those chants
« Reply #1852 on: March 18, 2024, 04:38:50 pm »
Could we start a proper e mail campaign ?. Like when we bombarded banks to stop Hicks getting a refinance job. The Premier League, MUFC, LFC.

They already know, they just ignore it & I'm including our owners in that.

A boots on necks campaign might work though.
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Offline Anfield Kopite

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Re: Those chants
« Reply #1853 on: March 18, 2024, 04:41:34 pm »
They already know, they just ignore it & I'm including our owners in that.

A boots on necks campaign might work though.
I know. Silly suggestion by me. Leppings Lane survivor and now and again it still proper upsets me. Fucking Vermin.

Offline WhereAngelsPlay

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Re: Those chants
« Reply #1854 on: March 18, 2024, 04:59:32 pm »
I know. Silly suggestion by me. Leppings Lane survivor and now and again it still proper upsets me. Fucking Vermin.


Breaks my heart that you're put through it every time we play the c*nts, yesterday was on another level.

Suppose we could start with an email blast to that twat Lee Dixon & then move on to the rest of the selectively deaf bastards.
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Offline Anfield Kopite

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Re: Those chants
« Reply #1855 on: March 18, 2024, 05:21:28 pm »

Breaks my heart that you're put through it every time we play the c*nts, yesterday was on another level.

Suppose we could start with an email blast to that twat Lee Dixon & then move on to the rest of the selectively deaf bastards.
Yeah that would be good. I was one of the lucky ones, cant imagine how much it must hurt familys of the 97.

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Re: Those chants
« Reply #1856 on: March 18, 2024, 05:28:17 pm »
Could we start a proper e mail campaign ?. Like when we bombarded banks to stop Hicks getting a refinance job. The Premier League, MUFC, LFC.

Needs to go further than that I reckon for any media to pick up on it sufficiently to force the authorities into proper action.

Favoured journalists, various social media campaigns, the HJC or other family/survivor groups, news outlets, TV companies, the clubs and maybe even Phil.

It'll need to be an organised effort rather than a mishmash of individuals but as you say we have previous so we know we're capable.

Offline WhereAngelsPlay

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Re: Those chants
« Reply #1857 on: March 18, 2024, 05:50:01 pm »
The Club could employ a company that then uses the manc cctv & then informs the police of the seat number and video.

They won't but they should.
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Offline Circa1892

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Re: Those chants
« Reply #1858 on: March 18, 2024, 06:04:06 pm »
The BBC have a small article on it, but most damning is that the Manchester Guardian doesn't report it at all.

The BBC headline implies both sets of fans had fans arrested for tragedy chanting. Bunch of Manc c*nts are BBC Sport.

Offline jillcwhomever

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Re: Those chants
« Reply #1859 on: March 18, 2024, 06:19:44 pm »
James Pearce
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2h
Greater Manchester Police “aware of footage circulating on social media of a United supporter engaging in tragedy chanting…. working with both clubs to identify the individual in connection with this incident”.
Now eight arrests across both sets of fans.
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Offline WhereAngelsPlay

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Re: Those chants
« Reply #1860 on: March 18, 2024, 06:20:53 pm »
A supporter, now do the thousands of others, it's not like it'd be difficult to do & it'd pay for itself.
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Offline WhereAngelsPlay

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Re: Those chants
« Reply #1861 on: March 18, 2024, 06:22:28 pm »
James Pearce
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Greater Manchester Police “aware of footage circulating on social media of a United supporter engaging in tragedy chanting…. working with both clubs to identify the individual in connection with this incident”.
Now eight arrests across both sets of fans.

4 Reds, 3 for party favours & 1 for what will have been a smoke bomb.
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Offline Bincey

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Re: Those chants
« Reply #1862 on: March 18, 2024, 06:31:21 pm »
Seems like The Torygraph of all places has said the most about yesterday. Couple of paywalled articles about it, mentioning what was actually chanted, unlike some of the other token articles put out.

https://www.printfriendly.com/p/g/GUEbHy

https://www.printfriendly.com/p/g/JcbTgd

Offline Tonyh8su

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Re: Those chants
« Reply #1863 on: March 18, 2024, 08:28:45 pm »
The fucking ignorance all over the internet is shocking. “It’s both sides”. Ive been going to the game since 1991 and I’ve never ever ever heard Munich chants. Ever. I couldn’t tell you what a Munich chant is. Do any of you?

Cause I certainly know what all their fucking tragedy chants are. I certainly know because I heard their scumbag players like Gary Neville and Rio Ferdinand singing them after a European Cup.

Everyone connected to that “club” are pond scum if not lower.

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Re: Those chants
« Reply #1864 on: March 18, 2024, 08:33:25 pm »
No idea if feasible, but could a banner be organised to be held along the bottom of the KD stand simply saying "Stop Tragedy Chanting"

Would be impossible for the TV cameras to ignore it.
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Re: Those chants
« Reply #1865 on: March 18, 2024, 08:34:58 pm »
The fucking ignorance all over the internet is shocking. “It’s both sides”. Ive been going to the game since 1991 and I’ve never ever ever heard Munich chants. Ever. I couldn’t tell you what a Munich chant is. Do any of you?

Cause I certainly know what all their fucking tragedy chants are. I certainly know because I heard their scumbag players like Gary Neville and Rio Ferdinand singing them after a European Cup.

Everyone connected to that “club” are pond scum if not lower.

Never heard it in Anfield but have in at their place after multiple Hillsborough/Heysel chants.

Offline redgriffin73

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Re: Those chants
« Reply #1866 on: March 18, 2024, 08:43:23 pm »
No idea if feasible, but could a banner be organised to be held along the bottom of the KD stand simply saying "Stop Tragedy Chanting"

Would be impossible for the TV cameras to ignore it.

Forest fans brought something like that to Anfield the other year I think, would be good if we could have something similar in a prominent position.
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Offline Avens

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Re: Those chants
« Reply #1867 on: March 18, 2024, 09:22:03 pm »
The BBC have a small article on it, but most damning is that the Manchester Guardian doesn't report it at all.

The BBC's article doesn't even mention which fanbase conducted the chanting, leaving it completely open to interpretation. What's more, it's been removed from the front page of BBC Sport and seemingly replaced with a story about that Danish reporter not being bothered by Klopp being angry with him after the game.

Daniel Storey has been very vocal about yesterday. Good on him. Sorry if this has already been shared https://inews.co.uk/sport/football/tragedy-chanting-is-getting-worse-2963005
« Last Edit: March 18, 2024, 09:25:18 pm by Avens »
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Offline rob1966

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Re: Those chants
« Reply #1868 on: March 18, 2024, 09:28:54 pm »
The fucking ignorance all over the internet is shocking. “It’s both sides”. Ive been going to the game since 1991 and I’ve never ever ever heard Munich chants. Ever. I couldn’t tell you what a Munich chant is. Do any of you?

Cause I certainly know what all their fucking tragedy chants are. I certainly know because I heard their scumbag players like Gary Neville and Rio Ferdinand singing them after a European Cup.

Everyone connected to that “club” are pond scum if not lower.

We'd stopped by 1991 due to Hillsborough, if you'd have been going in the 80's you'd have heard at least 3 different Munich songs and one one word chant at Anfield. We don't deny we sang them, but we learnt the hard way they're not funny, clever or ever acceptable.

You might hear the odd dickhead try to get a Munich song going, or Harold Shipman, but they'll get shut down straight away. I'm surprised how restrained our fans are with the shite these c*nts threw yesterday
« Last Edit: March 18, 2024, 09:46:20 pm by rob1966 »
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Offline andy07

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Re: Those chants
« Reply #1869 on: March 18, 2024, 10:02:46 pm »
The BBC's article doesn't even mention which fanbase conducted the chanting, leaving it completely open to interpretation. What's more, it's been removed from the front page of BBC Sport and seemingly replaced with a story about that Danish reporter not being bothered by Klopp being angry with him after the game.

Daniel Storey has been very vocal about yesterday. Good on him. Sorry if this has already been shared https://inews.co.uk/sport/football/tragedy-chanting-is-getting-worse-2963005

Crashes out because I don’t have a log in, can you copy it into the thread.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2024, 10:08:35 pm by andy07 »
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Re: Those chants
« Reply #1870 on: March 18, 2024, 10:26:56 pm »
We'd stopped by 1991 due to Hillsborough, if you'd have been going in the 80's you'd have heard at least 3 different Munich songs and one one word chant at Anfield. We don't deny we sang them, but we learnt the hard way they're not funny, clever or ever acceptable.

You might hear the odd dickhead try to get a Munich song going, or Harold Shipman, but they'll get shut down straight away. I'm surprised how restrained our fans are with the shite these c*nts threw yesterday

Saying we stopped the chanting after Hillsborough is incorrect and feeds into more of this shite. It stopped early 1988 after a match between liverpool and man utd when the echo and MEN came together to stop the shankly and Munich chants. It started getting booed from then on and stopped pretty soon after. Still sang it in pubs and shouts at games but the crowd as a whole stopped a long time ago. Fuck all to do with Hillsborough.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2024, 11:05:53 pm by Jordellsu »

Offline Circa1892

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Re: Those chants
« Reply #1871 on: March 18, 2024, 10:28:29 pm »
The BBC's article doesn't even mention which fanbase conducted the chanting, leaving it completely open to interpretation. What's more, it's been removed from the front page of BBC Sport and seemingly replaced with a story about that Danish reporter not being bothered by Klopp being angry with him after the game.

Daniel Storey has been very vocal about yesterday. Good on him. Sorry if this has already been shared https://inews.co.uk/sport/football/tragedy-chanting-is-getting-worse-2963005

BBC sport and the guardian have been a fucking disgrace for years on this, and on City.

You’re far more likely to get a decent and fair sports coverage in the Telegraph, Times, Mirror, even the fucking Mail. They’re all on the take.

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Re: Those chants
« Reply #1872 on: March 18, 2024, 10:36:25 pm »
We'd stopped by 1991 due to Hillsborough, if you'd have been going in the 80's you'd have heard at least 3 different Munich songs and one one word chant at Anfield. We don't deny we sang them, but we learnt the hard way they're not funny, clever or ever acceptable.

You might hear the odd dickhead try to get a Munich song going, or Harold Shipman, but they'll get shut down straight away. I'm surprised how restrained our fans are with the shite these c*nts threw yesterday

Thanks for that, Rob.

I actually do remember being at the 2011 home fixture against them when Kuyt got the hattrick and I remember someone shout the word "Munich" in the Anfield Road Lower in response to the "Fergie's right" chant and people telling him to "shut the fuck up".

I have certainly never, ever, ever in my entire 38 years ever heard out entire home fanbase chanting Munich chants. But I have certainly heard their entire home fanbase, their entite travelling fanbase and their players chanting about Hillsborough.

Offline Jwils21

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Re: Those chants
« Reply #1873 on: March 18, 2024, 10:36:31 pm »
There is a video doing the rounds of a dickhead in our end doing aeroplane gestures.

It’s one person, but that’s enough for the whataboutists to downplay the thousands chanting utter bile yesterday.

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Re: Those chants
« Reply #1874 on: March 18, 2024, 10:47:28 pm »
There is a video doing the rounds of a dickhead in our end doing aeroplane gestures.

It’s one person, but that’s enough for the whataboutists to downplay the thousands chanting utter bile yesterday.

We have dick heads in our support and we need to strengthen our self policing. One knob head (if verified) is one too many. All in all if anyone points out an indiscretion in our support it is an exception.  For United fans foul behaviour is the rule.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2024, 10:53:00 pm by andy07 »
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Offline WhereAngelsPlay

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Re: Those chants
« Reply #1875 on: March 18, 2024, 10:49:25 pm »
There is a video doing the rounds of a dickhead in our end doing aeroplane gestures.

It’s one person, but that’s enough for the whataboutists to downplay the thousands chanting utter bile yesterday.

In the age of AI, it'll need serious verification.
My cup, it runneth over, I'll never get my fill

Offline CHOPPER

  • Bad Tranny with a Chopper. Hello John gotta new Mitre? I'm Jim Davidson in disguise. Undercover Cop (Grammar Division). Does Louis Spence. Well. A giga-c*nt worth of nothing in particular. Hodgson apologist. Astronomical cock. Hug Jacket Distributor
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Re: Those chants
« Reply #1876 on: March 18, 2024, 11:23:19 pm »
Well that's a load of shite.

You've had a go at half my family and probably half your family and probably about half of Liverpool.

The Red Brick should be ashamed of what they did, but to tar the whole of Liverpool to be the same as these inbred, mutant, 6 fingered sister botherers is a bit much.

Don’t t be so naive, they’re all bitter and twisted, just coz they’re all nice and Merseyside, Merseyside, Merseyside, when you meet up for a family do and a bit of oops up side ya head and then give it the big guns of Shalamar and Fat Larrys band, all face to face…..behind it all they’re a bunch of bitter and entrenched blues nose twats, they all are, and that goes for the women, especially the women!

Wake up and smell the coffee you silly bastard.
@ Veinticinco de Mayo The way you talk to other users on this forum is something you should be ashamed of as someone who is suppose to be representing the site.
Martin Kenneth Wild - Part of a family

Offline WhereAngelsPlay

  • Rockwool Marketing Board Spokesman. Cracker Wanker. Fucking calmest man on RAWK, alright? ALRIGHT?! Definitely a bigger cunt than YOU!
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Re: Those chants
« Reply #1877 on: March 18, 2024, 11:26:07 pm »
Andy is more of a Rocky horror man
My cup, it runneth over, I'll never get my fill

Offline CHOPPER

  • Bad Tranny with a Chopper. Hello John gotta new Mitre? I'm Jim Davidson in disguise. Undercover Cop (Grammar Division). Does Louis Spence. Well. A giga-c*nt worth of nothing in particular. Hodgson apologist. Astronomical cock. Hug Jacket Distributor
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Re: Those chants
« Reply #1878 on: March 18, 2024, 11:29:04 pm »
That doesn’t surprise me in the slightest.
@ Veinticinco de Mayo The way you talk to other users on this forum is something you should be ashamed of as someone who is suppose to be representing the site.
Martin Kenneth Wild - Part of a family

Offline thejbs

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Re: Those chants
« Reply #1879 on: March 18, 2024, 11:51:23 pm »
The usual Liverpool based reporters (Pearce, couple of the Echo guys) called it out at the time. Not sure about anyone ‘national’ but more because I dont follow them!

Daniel Storey for i.

Quote
This wasn’t just the noisy work of a few, the kid who didn’t know better or the idiot who has committed monastically to becoming an edgelord whose football club forms 98 per cent of their personality. It was hundreds, perhaps even thousands.

You know the ones by now: “Always the victims” and “The Sun was right”. “Murderers” was chanted, en masse, at least five times during Sunday’s FA Cup tie at Old Trafford with the noise coming almost exclusively from the Stretford End. This was not a few bad eggs. This was hatred on a grander scale from those who go to watch Manchester United every other week.

The banter excuse doesn’t exist anymore. It was always morally vacuous to prove your love for your own club not just through spending money, time, effort and angst on them, but by singing about the death of other humans. Now it’s legally official. In August 2023, the Crown Prosecution Service updated its guidance to reconfirm that tragedy-related abuse is a public order offence and thus prosecutable.

There are two distinct negative reactions when you talk, write or post about tragedy chanting. First, and far more commonly, come the cries of whataboutery. Where were you when this or that or the other happened? Where was your energy when it was the fans of the rivals of my team?

Which, I’m sorry, just makes you part of the problem not the solution. All tragedy chanting is appalling; that should be obvious to anybody decent. Nobody is trying to unfairly besmirch you if you didn’t chant or your club, only what is being chanted and those who did it. This is not some grim league table for you to cut out and keep on your bedroom wall and using the toddler’s “But they started it” argument makes you look stupid.

If someone else does it, you don’t have to. If your rivals do it, be better than them. If your own do it, push for them to stop and agree with the criticism just as much as when it’s your rivals doing it. Joining in because someone else did the same is a route only down a miserable downward slide to the bottom. Rivalry pulls us apart but it does not disconnect us. It has to get better than this.

The second reaction is that any attempt to police this behaviour is sanitising football, by which they mean ruining it. There’s no argument that football has indeed become plasticised – rising ticket prices, gentrification, increase in corporate hospitality and general rise in facilities. But you cannot fill a perceived absence of atmosphere with hate and call it a solution. And if you need to celebrate or protest or engage with other supporters by mocking death or accident or a poor kid with cancer, the game does not want you. A kid with cancer, for f**k’s sake.

These are already known knowns. Condemnation comes from all sides after every incident. Everyone who is prepared to listen on this issue has already heard the explanation and still they plough on. The Premier League, via its “Stars” campaign, educated children in schools about unacceptable chanting, and that is valuable. But you aren’t going to persuade a 55-year-old boiled ham joint in tight jeans and a jumper to stop acting out a human being crushed to death with lessons and notebooks.

Instead, the important point is that this seems to be getting worse. It’s not just that you see it more with social media, because social media is a decade old. This season alone, we’ve had chants or abuse at matches over the Leicester City helicopter crash, the Emiliano Sala plane crash and the death of Bradley Lowery. At Old Trafford on Sunday, those chants were louder than I’ve ever heard them before.

We must reflect upon this rise and ask where the assumed power to be so grotesque has come from. Perhaps it’s merely the inevitable endgame of rampant tribalism in a sport that seems to drive performative outrage and anger like never before. Maybe it reflects a rise in general angst and a determination to rail against authority by those who perceive that they are being ignored. Although if that is the case, backing the authority view on Hillsborough seems pretty dim.

Instead, how about this: football does not exist in isolation but is a mirror of socio-politics. Last week, the largest donor to the Conservative Party had remarks from 2019 about black Labour MP Diane Abbott reported. They included Frank Hester saying that “you just want to hate all black women” and that Abbott should be shot.

Ever since, Government ministers have caveated or explained those quotes as referring not to gender, race or even Abbott herself (“it wasn’t even really about Diane Abbott” – Kemi Badenoch, Business Secretary). Hester’s company TTP released a statement in which he accepted that he was “rude”.

We live in the age where offence is increasingly decided by the giver rather than the receiver. Where provoking a reaction is the height of victory. Where a Crowley-ian doctrine of do what thou wilt has taken hold. I’m not suggesting that there is a direct link between Hester and Old Trafford, obviously. Simply that, in the post-truth and post-decency era, nobody appears to consider the consequences of their behaviour either on themselves or those who they attack.