Topic: Round Table: Liverpool 1 - 0 Southampton

[BabuYagu]

So guys what did you think of that one? My talking points would be:-

Sterling - is it me or is he starting to look a little jaded? Could he use a couple of weeks as an impact sub if needed to recharge his batteries?

Suarez - He's just terrifyingly good isn't he? Didnt score today but you wouldn't bet against him any time he is on the pitch now. Just looks a constant threat. With that in mind, what do we do without him against West Ham? Time to look at our U21 squad. Try Gerrard, Shelvey, Sterling or Assaidi as a false 9?

Lucas - Having a proper DM really just changes the way a midfield plays. When that DM is the best in the league and one of the most respected and trusted players in the squad then his value on the pitch increases exponentially. He was outstanding today in breaking up play and sniffing out any danger before it could develop. Never visiably tired but glad we can give the guy a rest whenever we get the oppertunity. The freedom he gave Allen & Gerrard was just as important as what he brings as a DM himself though. Did Southampton make his return seem more influential than it was, or did he bring exactly what we thought he would.... a proper pivot for the side to play off of?

Enrique - Left back or Left Wing?

Shelvey - Can't decide whether he was good today or not. For every excellent through ball into the channel there was a moment of poor play or laziness/lack of atheltic ability to help out where another wide player would have. Do we like him playing as a wide forward? With Lucas back and Henderson preferred to him centrally now and Sahin lying in wait, where does he fit in the side for us?

Southampton - Poor side or made to look poor? I was interested to see both Gaston and Lallana, either of whom I would be happy to have here to add a creative spark. They just couldn't get them on the ball today at all. The few times they did get the ball, with the pressure of knowing it would be along time before they saw the ball again they seemed to over play things and try to create a goal or shoot when nothing at all was on.

Coates - His stock fell suddenly. I think he is an excellent player and IMO should be pushing Skrtel for a spot in the side. He seems to be behind Carragher though and I don't see how that benefits us at all. I would guess even Wisdom would be preferred in a central role to him too based on the few times we tried 3 at the back. Thoughts?

West Ham really has draw written all over it now. Looking at their come back against Chelsea today, Suarez out and Sterling needing a rest, maybe a draw would actually be a good result?

[Hazell]

I thought we played really well. Ok, Southampton at home isn't the sternest of tests but a victory is a victory and it was probably one of the best performances of the season, if not the best as we were generally solid and created numerous chances which we should have put away, a combination that hasn't been present too much this season.

So guys what did you think of that one? My talking points would be:-

Sterling - is it me or is he starting to look a little jaded? Could he use a couple of weeks as an impact sub if needed to recharge his batteries?

I have been worried that at some point, he will need a rest. The problem is that right now, Rodgers doesn't seem to rate Downing or Assaidi to start in the league. Shelvey and Suso are options but neither have the impact over 90 minutes that Sterling does.

I actually don't think he was too bad today, it wasn't his best game but he was ok and I didn't really see much poor decision making from him. If anything, it was his execution which let him down at times. But Sterling generally is been above average in both departments for someone of his age and position, which is what makes him so exciting. I would like to see him not start every game though, maybe Lucas' return will allow that to happen as it'd allow Gerrard to be pushed further forward. Alternatively, I would like to Assiadi start more often and am hoping Borini comes back soon as well.

Suarez - He's just terrifyingly good isn't he? Didnt score today but you wouldn't bet against him any time he is on the pitch now. Just looks a constant threat. With that in mind, what do we do without him against West Ham? Time to look at our U21 squad. Try Gerrard, Shelvey, Sterling or Assaidi as a false 9?

Suarez is simply a joy to watch. But it'll be good for the team in a way to not have him, though the alternatives we have available make West Hm that little bit more tougher. I'm really not sure who Rodgers will plump for - our out and out forwards have very limited experience and I suppose Shelvey or Gerrard will play there next weekend. At least it might make Rodgers' mind up to start Suarez for the Udinese game.

Lucas - Having a proper DM really just changes the way a midfield plays. When that DM is the best in the league and one of the most respected and trusted players in the squad then his value on the pitch increases exponentially. He was outstanding today in breaking up play and sniffing out any danger before it could develop. Never visiably tired but glad we can give the guy a rest whenever we get the oppertunity. The freedom he gave Allen & Gerrard was just as important as what he brings as a DM himself though. Did Southampton make his return seem more influential than it was, or did he bring exactly what we thought he would.... a proper pivot for the side to play off of?

Yes, terrific to have Lucas back, his presence improves us significantly, what with him being one of the best defensive midfielders in the league - and he was superb at his role considering how few games he's played for a year - and it obviously allows Gerrard the freedom to move further up the pitch and I thought Gerrard had his best game for some time.

Allen's an interesting one, to me it was clearly visible, particularly in the first half, that he was allowed more freedom to play further upfield and he did well (though I thought he faded in the second and was rightly replaced by Henderson). I've been really excited about the potential Lucas-Allen partnership, fingers crossed both stay fit enough for it to develop.

Southampton weren't particularly great today but we have had problems when we've played similar sides this season, the most obvious being Reading where we were in an identical situation, going a goal up before halftime. Whereas in that match, Reading found it too a little easy to attack us in the second, this one was completely different in the second half, we were still clearly on top and only bad finishing/decision making prevented us from making the scoreline more realistic to how the game went.

Enrique - Left back or Left Wing?

He was almost a left winger today wasn't he? He was bombing down there like the Carlos Alberto of old. It's tricky one as we don't really have a left back aside from Enrique, though I would like to see Robinson given more games. One of the criticisms of Enrique is that on the ball he's not that smart but recent games for me has dispelled that a little. Playing him at left back, he's a solid defender and if given the instruction to attack he'll do it with gusto. He's direct, powerful, is able to hold onto the ball and has linked well with Suarez in recent games. That one two between them was lovely to watch. With Lucas coming back, he could perhaps have even less to worry about in terms of being caught on the counter attack so him playing LB we could yet see.

I do think Johnson on the other side was brilliant though, his all round game is superb and doesn't get the plaudits (outside of Liverpool supporters) it deserves.

Shelvey - Can't decide whether he was good today or not. For every excellent through ball into the channel there was a moment of poor play or laziness/lack of atheltic ability to help out where another wide player would have. Do we like him playing as a wide forward? With Lucas back and Henderson preferred to him centrally now and Sahin lying in wait, where does he fit in the side for us?

I'd prefer him either as a wide forward or more centrally - where Gerrard played today. He had a couple of good moments but wasn't generally with it. Been a bit like that overall this season. He still is only 20, something which I have to remind myself of, and he has plenty of time. With our paucity of options and the reluctance to play Downing or Assaidi, it might be something we'll have to do with until January.

Southampton - Poor side or made to look poor? I was interested to see both Gaston and Lallana, either of whom I would be happy to have here to add a creative spark. They just couldn't get them on the ball today at all. The few times they did get the ball, with the pressure of knowing it would be along time before they saw the ball again they seemed to over play things and try to create a goal or shoot when nothing at all was on.

Haven't really seen them this season but yeah, they were poor today, particularly when they were attacking. They didn't seem on the same wavelength. Maybe it was just one of those days for them.

Coates - His stock fell suddenly. I think he is an excellent player and IMO should be pushing Skrtel for a spot in the side. He seems to be behind Carragher though and I don't see how that benefits us at all. I would guess even Wisdom would be preferred in a central role to him too based on the few times we tried 3 at the back. Thoughts?

I have little idea why Coates doesn't seem to be getting a look in, particularly when we look at the options we have available after Skrtel and Agger. I think a lot's been written about that recently though and I'd be repeating nearly all of it on here, so I won't.

West Ham really has draw written all over it now. Looking at their come back against Chelsea today, Suarez out and Sterling needing a rest, maybe a draw would actually be a good result?

I know it's a cliche but facing an Allardyce team is pretty tough and without our main goal threat, a lot more. I feel a lot more confident with Lucas back although I'm not sure how much he'll play. I think we can win there, we looked fine today, Gerrard and Allen were very good and the fullbacks were superb. It all depends on who we play (obviously) but I'm pretty happy with today and I guess we'll all probably know more after Rodgers selects his team for Thursday.

A 1-0 at home to Southampton probably wasn't what we all wanted and some of the same old problems reared their head but I felt it was a commanding performance overall and we can hopefully go to Italy with some confidence and return as qualified for the next round.

[Veinticinco de Mayo]

I don't think that Sterling looked jaded today.  I thought he was sharp and as ever he used the ball intelligently.  The thing I like about him most his how he sucks the opposition player right onto him before deftly releasing the pass to a colleague. 

He is only 17 though and he will need to be rested, the good news is that come January then we should be in a position to do that.  At the very least because the return of Borini will give us options but hopefully also because we have managed to sign some additional attacking options.

[Yorkykopite]

The best moment of the match, other than the goal, was Lucas entering a fifty-fifty tackle with the outside of his foot in the second half. The method is not unknown to other players, but no one - certainly at Liverpool - performs it quite like Lucas. Two years ago it became a trademark of his and accounted for the surprising number of times he nicked the ball before his opponent was truly settled in possession (always a good time to tackle). Eventually though it led to the dreadful knee injury. Tackling with the outside of the boot inevitably exposes the outside of the knee.

Yesterday the lad did it so quickly that there was no time for his admirers to wince. He won the ball too - cleanly, elegantly, with his opponent crumbling under the surprise impact. His selection was a major surprise (to me at least) but his assured performance wasn't. I found myself doing what I became habituated to doing two years ago. When the ball broke for Southampton in the final third I'd simply look to see where Lucas Leiva was. Then I'd start breathing normally again. He's a big player for us.

Not least of Lucas's qualities yesterday was the fact that his presence released both Gerrard and Allen to move further forward. Both played well and Allen showed us a glimpse of what might happen when he gets back into the rhythm of playing the forward midfield role. Some of his touches on the ball were fantastic. He really does gobble up any space you give him too and, inevitably, gets defenders retreating raggedly and jettisoning any plans they might have to play for offside. I expect we'll see Suarez making more runs into the spaces behind the full backs when Allen is on the ball and moving forward. He did so on many occasions yesterday. We ought to have capitalised more.

I agree with Kev about Sterling. He looked fresh and energetic yesterday. If he has a fault at the moment it is not releasing the ball early. The extra touch he took before passing square to Suarez for his left-foot shot near the end was unnecessary and made Luis's task a little harder. But he's going to be a magnificent player. So strong, so fast, so skilful and so bright. And once again he showed that the single most important facet in heading a ball is timing. How else is he able to outleap bigger and stronger players?

Minus points? Some of Skrtel's distribution. If only he passed or moved with the ball as quickly as his partner. But he doesn't. He's ponderous. You can see his options narrowing each time he dithers and because he lacks Agger's ability to change direction in a decisive way he sometimes puts the team on the back foot and occasionally under unnecessary pressure. Yesterday Pepe bailed him out with a superb header -  a situation that had evolved because of Skrtel's hesitation in delivering a forward pass. It's a small thing perhaps, but he needs to be put under pressure by another centre back in the squad. We have one. He's very promising too. I'm not talking about the old bloke who came on at the end to pick up his yellow card.

I'm not over-worried about Skrtel though. But I defy any Red not to be worried by Shelvey's inept performance yesterday. Sometimes he looks absolutely crap - and this was one of those times. How many good chances has he missed this season? Too many. Ten minutes into the game the ball dropped on to his left foot inside the box. No Southampton player was within three yards of him and so he didn't have to rush his shot. But Shelvey swung a boot and barely connected. It proved to be an overture to a performance littered with technical errors. For huge parts of the game he simply disappeared or committed himself to tackles he was never going to win. His last kick of the game was a mis-kick too. Have a word with yourself lad.

The lad has talent, for sure, but it's not sufficient to be able to turn it on for one-in-four games (which is about Shelvey's ratio at the moment). Bet you Brendan drops him for West Ham.

[Vulmea]

Thought it was an enjoyable game from start to finish.

A few pieces clicked into place and we looked more of a team than a group of individuals.

The Saints had been on a good run but its difficult to  assess how good we were compared to how poor they were.

We dominated large sections of the game, we looked more comfortable defensively.

Immediately after the goal and the start of the second half seemed to be when we lost control. We need to learn how to handle that surge from the opposition, take away their belief. It will make things a hell of a lot easier in the long run.

I thought Sterling was bright, adapted well to playing more inside but was ultimately ineffective - several times he fluffed his lines without the 'feel good' factor around him - say he was the 20 year old Jonjo for example we'd be talking about him needing to be more productive, needing to improve and his raw talent not being enough. He's one of three forwards and whilst its great he's gaining experience - he's doing so and done so at a price. Of course dropping him isn't likely to help our contract negotiations either.

One worrying thing for many of you will be Carra's appearance,  unfortunately Carra ticks a number of the boxes needed to play that DM role in Rodgers preferred formation - I'm surprised  he hasn't appeared there before. Coates on the other hand seems to fall between two stools - not experienced enough to be trusted as the ball player and not dominant enough for the more physical role.

[royhendo]

I think it illustrated as clearly as was possible what January is gonna bring. Finishing, defending from the front, and who knows - maybe a reliable deputy for Lucas. That's closer to how the system's supposed to work, and underlines that we're almost at our starting point for me.

[Yorkykopite]

unfortunately Carra ticks a number of the boxes needed to play that DM role in Rodgers preferred formation - I'm surprised  he hasn't appeared there before.

Surely not? He's too slow, he's now easily turned, he doesn't like receiving the ball with his back to the opposition, he can't move with the ball at his feet, he's not an astute passer, he lacks any kind of stamina. I don't know what 'boxes' you're referring to, but I'd humbly suggest you've misunderstood what Rodgers is after in a DM.

[Z e u s]

I don't understand round the table. 

What's the point in having another match thread?

[Z e u s]

A very good day yesterday.

The second half wasn't great, but it is nice to get a result without performing at our best.  Usually the opposite has happened to us the lasy two seasons.

A win, a clean sheet - just what the club and Rodgers needed.

Lucas did well, despite looking rusty at times.  Just a shame Suarez got a yellow card, however that was going to happen sooner or later.

Thought Gerrard looked good, brilliant in bursts.  Enrique just contiunes his best form, great finish by Agger and we weren't troubled much at the back all game.

Thought Allen was rightly subbed as he was average, but Henderson didn't do any better (or worse) when he came on.

Our attack still looks blunt, however I think that will be the case until January when we get some additions to help Suarez.

Good day overall and hopefully we'll see more day like this in the future. 

[Fromola]

Surely not? He's too slow, he's now easily turned, he doesn't like receiving the ball with his back to the opposition, he can't move with the ball at his feet, he's not an astute passer, he lacks any kind of stamina. I don't know what 'boxes' you're referring to, but I'd humbly suggest you've misunderstood what Rodgers is after in a DM.

But apart from that . . .

[jason67]

I don't understand round the table. 

What's the point in having another match thread?

Well that doesn't surprise me with some of the shite you post.
But just to let you know it's a more of a 'thinking man's/woman's' reaction to the game instead of the usual drivel that you and others seem to enjoy in the post match thread.

[Veinticinco de Mayo]

I don't understand round the table. 

Yep, that is clear.

On the Carra debate I am with Yorky, even though Carra has played that role many times he is very much a Hodgson player in that position.  There entirely for his defensive qualities and reading of the game.  It is clear that Rodgers demands much more from a player in that position requiring him to be the fulcrum around which most moves form, an outlet for defenders rather than the longer clearance and an outlet for the midfield when forward options are closed off.  It also seems clear that he has to be able to shift the focus of play either by a quick change in direction or by moving with the ball and taking some players out of the equation.  Carra is clearly not that player. 

Vulmea I would really be interested in which boxes you think are getting ticked?  I'd also be interested in how you can assume Rodgers might fancy playing him there more often given that Carra has not been starting and we have played most of the season crying out for a defensive midfielder.  Surely the evidence points to him not fancying Carragher for that role not vice versa? 

[Z e u s]

Well that doesn't surprise me with some of the shite you post.
But just to let you know it's a more of a 'thinking man's/woman's' reaction to the game instead of the usual drivel that you and others seem to enjoy in the post match thread.

What drivel did I post in the match thread?  None.

Seems you're the one posting drivel mate! haha

I don't get the point of it really, but fair enough.

[11 friends]

He`s doing what all new managers do-namely getting the senior players onboard.Political move.Would have liked to have seen Xabi Alonsos understudy from Real Madrid take the part,but hey..........

[DonkeyWan]

I was at the game yesterday. A day of mixed feelings really. The atmosphere in the stand was tense, very tense. It always seems to be these days. My overall view of the game might be coloured by the Scouse contributor sat behind me who seemed to hate everyone, but Sterling most of all. His useful observations included 'Midget' (Sterling) 'He's fucking shit he is' (Sterling - again) 'Fuck off, your not good enough for this club' (Sterling... again...) 'Soft shit he is' (Agger) 'He can't do it anymore' (Gerrard) and 'For fucksake johnson, make the fucking tackle... Jesus Christ he can't defend, can he?' (actually that last one was me). I include these moments to demonstrate how tense the crowd were.

The actual game, on reflection, was a lot less nerve wracking, with the only real moment of course the unexpected snapshot that Reina turned away on the half. Still, it was symptomatic of the season that Liverpool dominated, missed  a whole host of chances and ended up clinging on. There were some welcome moments - Enrique was all heart again, Lucas was back and arguably MotM and Gerrard was steady if little else.

In terms of performances I thought Reina was solid and neat in distribution. The backline was worrying at the fullback positions; Johnson and Enrique just don't inspire confidence defensively, even if they are good going forward. The second half in particular they were under  a lot of pressure, sometimes of their own creation, with Johnson showing his bad habit of just switching off. My motM was Agger, not just for the goal, but his overall control of the backline despite the ropey start. Skrtel and himself are a really top notch partnership.

In the middle, Lucas offered real solidity, giving Allen and Gerrard a platform to build on. Neither excelled though, Gerrard was in and out, Allen just had a totally indifferent game and was taken off. On the wings Sterling was a tired looking 17 year old being targetted by canny managers. Now they put a quick, young fullback on him to tie him up. His confidence was low, demonstrable by his shirking of 1 on 1s as he sought Suarez rather take it on himself. He still has a long way to go. Shelvey, on the other side, was chronic. I'm really not sure about him as a player. he's still very young and might mature into an excellent player, but currently - beyond the odd nice pass and a howitzer of a shot, he's not really in most games. Similarly henderson, when he came on, offered little, he seems to alck patience and footballing intelligence; he might mature, but for now seems to be favoured for his work rate and enthusiasm.

Which is at the heart of the point I want to make. I realised yesterday how far the team need to progress to even challenge for 4th. It's no accident we are in 11th. What's going to be required is some astute acquisitions in January. And therein lies the problem. For, to date, only one player on the starting line up and pitch yesterday was a Rodger's man. that was Joe Allen. And he had an indifferent game. Meanwhile of his other buys, Shahin (loan, obviously) seems no longer in favour, Assaidi has been used once in the PL if I remember, Yesil is too young and Borini was hardly pulling up trees before his injury. Further afield, of the two targets we missed out on, one is on the Spurs bench and the other one looks like following him. So Rodgers buys have been none too canny, while his primary source of funds, Carroll, looks like he won't earn the club a tenth of what he cost. So a long way to go and the means to get there none too obvious. I find this, needless to say, depressing. Next game minus Suarez, our one creative force, will tell a lot. I predict an optimistic draw.

Overall though, there is something that has become clear to me lately.

[SYLENTm]

Good game, unfortunate not to have scored at least one more.
All the lads did well, the only one that slightly underperfomed was Shelvey imo, really sloppy in passing, didn't really put any consideration in them.

[Veinticinco de Mayo]

What drivel did I post in the match thread?  None.

Seems you're the one posting drivel mate! haha

I don't get the point of it really, but fair enough.

It's quite simple really mate.  You read the posts before you, look at the points made and respond to them then perhaps take the debate forward with points of your own.   

Judging from your post above you seem to have fallen down at the reading stage. 

[WhiteHeat]

All we're lacking is a proven goalscoring striker to finish off what we're doing. I hope FSG allow Brendan to get that striker even if he's a little too experienced for their 'young players' identification policy they seem to have.

[Vulmea]

Vulmea I would really be interested in which boxes you think are getting ticked?  I'd also be interested in how you can assume Rodgers might fancy playing him there more often given that Carra has not been starting and we have played most of the season crying out for a defensive midfielder.  Surely the evidence points to him not fancying Carragher for that role not vice versa? 

Again trying to be objective - we played better for longer yesterday, maybe it was the opposition, maybe its time but we also had Allen, Enrique, Johnson in their natural positions and crucially we had a player who knew how to play DM playing DM which allowed us a more solid platform to build from.

Carragher is slow, he has a poor turning circle and his forward passing is limited. On the plus side he can read the game  brilliantly, he will have plenty of options to pass to and he will provide an out ball for the more advanced CM's. It would be negative, but it would add some defensive stability because he would presumably be goalside of the opposition rather than tackling back giving away daft fouls because he is on the wrong side of the player. I'm not saying he is good enough long term but my theory would be teh benfits of playing your better players in their correct positions outweighs the limits of the individual player, you become better than the sum of your parts. I'd use the same argument for having kept Spearing.

You make a good point on him not being used before but we have tried 3 at the back several times - thats been a compromise - playing Carra in his correct position rather than asking him to adapt to the new method - but oddly enough one of Carraghers main strengths (maybe his only one ) is his versatility. Clearly Rodgers first choice was to persist with Allen unfortunately it has not developed as we would have hoped- we have been too open too often - I like Allen but not as a DM - so rather than chnage the approach and use 3 at the back, its not such a stretch to simply slot in a DM especially if we just want to close out a game, as we did yesterday.

Dont get me wrong if we buy a back up DM in January I'll be delighted .

[Fromola]

Again trying to be objective - we played better for longer yesterday, maybe it was the opposition, maybe its time but we also had Allen, Enrique, Johnson in their natural positions and crucially we had a player who knew how to play DM playing DM which allowed us a more solid platform to build from.

Carragher is slow, he has a poor turning circle and his forward passing is limited. On the plus side he can read the game  brilliantly, he will have plenty of options to pass to and he will provide an out ball for the more advanced CM's. It would be negative, but it would add some defensive stability because he would presumably be goalside of the opposition rather than tackling back giving away daft fouls because he is on the wrong side of the player. I'm not saying he is good enough long term but my theory would be teh benfits of playing your better players in their correct positions outweighs the limits of the individual player, you become better than the sum of your parts. I'd use the same argument for having kept Spearing.

You make a good point on him not being used before but we have tried 3 at the back several times - thats been a compromise - playing Carra in his correct position rather than asking him to adapt to the new method - but oddly enough one of Carraghers main strengths (maybe his only one ) is his versatility. Clearly Rodgers first choice was to persist with Allen unfortunately it has not developed as we would have hoped- we have been too open too often - I like Allen but not as a DM - so rather than chnage the approach and use 3 at the back, its not such a stretch to simply slot in a DM especially if we just want to close out a game, as we did yesterday.

Dont get me wrong if we buy a back up DM in January I'll be delighted .

Carragher played there against United last season and looked totally lost. He was first to be subbed. Luckily United were weak in CM themselves and didn't punish us.

Carragher's out of his comfort zone when he's more than 25 yards from goal because he's an out-and-out defender. Looked what happened with Lukaku on the opening day, he hasn't got the strength to win those battles, let alone the speed.

You can't neglect the fitness aspect either. It's not physically exerting to play centre half. It's the one outfield position that doesn't require high stamina.

[Mutton Geoff]

watching the game now for the first time and Agger just scored, but one thing i noted already i have been critical before quite a lot, aimless cosy passes at the back and in midfield lacking any purpose, but so far in this half the passing is crisper, and effective in transition from defence to attack, is this simply the Lucas effect not only boosting confidence in the midfield but also freeing Allen up to be more adventurous than in the past?

[RGF30]

So guys what did you think of that one? My talking points would be:-

Sterling - is it me or is he starting to look a little jaded? Could he use a couple of weeks as an impact sub if needed to recharge his batteries?

I would agree, been like this for a few games.  It would have been nice to have seen him subbed at least, and the cynic in me say's he is not being subbed due to his contract situation.  Really hope I am wrong.

Suarez - He's just terrifyingly good isn't he? Didnt score today but you wouldn't bet against him any time he is on the pitch now. Just looks a constant threat. With that in mind, what do we do without him against West Ham? Time to look at our U21 squad. Try Gerrard, Shelvey, Sterling or Assaidi as a false 9?

One of the few players that I just cant complain about, just so committed and so talented.  I hope he gets some scoring help soon, maybe within a week of the transfer window and hopefully not 1 day before the close (which is how it normally happens).

Lucas - Having a proper DM really just changes the way a midfield plays. When that DM is the best in the league and one of the most respected and trusted players in the squad then his value on the pitch increases exponentially. He was outstanding today in breaking up play and sniffing out any danger before it could develop. Never visiably tired but glad we can give the guy a rest whenever we get the oppertunity. The freedom he gave Allen & Gerrard was just as important as what he brings as a DM himself though. Did Southampton make his return seem more influential than it was, or did he bring exactly what we thought he would.... a proper pivot for the side to play off of?

Was very concerned about him starting, glad he came through so well and was genuinely surprised how well he played after being out for so long.

Enrique - Left back or Left Wing?

Would be nice to have two players of this type on the left so that they could cover for each other.

Shelvey - Can't decide whether he was good today or not. For every excellent through ball into the channel there was a moment of poor play or laziness/lack of atheltic ability to help out where another wide player would have. Do we like him playing as a wide forward? With Lucas back and Henderson preferred to him centrally now and Sahin lying in wait, where does he fit in the side for us?

He was hot and cold in my opinion, along with Gerrard and Allen.

Southampton - Poor side or made to look poor? I was interested to see both Gaston and Lallana, either of whom I would be happy to have here to add a creative spark. They just couldn't get them on the ball today at all. The few times they did get the ball, with the pressure of knowing it would be along time before they saw the ball again they seemed to over play things and try to create a goal or shoot when nothing at all was on.

Southampton were very poor.  If this performance had been against one of the top team, I would have been ecstatic.  That being said, though the performance was very pedestrian.  It concerns me, and it will concern me more if it keeps on happening week after week.  For now I am happy with the clean sheet and 3 points.

Coates - His stock fell suddenly. I think he is an excellent player and IMO should be pushing Skrtel for a spot in the side. He seems to be behind Carragher though and I don't see how that benefits us at all. I would guess even Wisdom would be preferred in a central role to him too based on the few times we tried 3 at the back. Thoughts?

I dont really know what is happening here.  Carragher on the bench has zero benefit imo.

West Ham really has draw written all over it now. Looking at their come back against Chelsea today, Suarez out and Sterling needing a rest, maybe a draw would actually be a good result?

Would take a draw instantly, just hope the team plays well.

[Fromola]

watching the game now for the first time and Agger just scored, but one thing i noted already i have been critical before quite a lot, aimless cosy passes at the back and in midfield lacking any purpose, but so far in this half the passing is crisper, and effective in transition from defence to attack, is this simply the Lucas effect not only boosting confidence in the midfield but also freeing Allen up to be more adventurous than in the past?

I think that's a balance issue, yeah. Put people in their correct positions and we are a lot more comfortable on the ball. I thought we zipped the ball about great first half, but it reminded me of last season (pre-Lucas injury) where we were a lot more direct and creating (and missing) stacks of chances. It wasn't a tiki-taka performance, and we seem to have gone away from that patient-possession approach Rodgers favours, so I wonder if that's a directive from the dugout.

[Red Eyed]

is this simply the Lucas effect not only boosting confidence in the midfield but also freeing Allen up to be more adventurous than in the past?

With Lucas there both Allen and Gerrard are pushed into their best positions, I think we'll finally start seeing that great midfield that we were raving about before the season.

[Garcepticon]

Rotation. Are we doing enough of it? Who do you think really needs a rest? Does our lack of rotation (if we do indeed lack in that department) look like it will hurt us later in the season?

Starts (out of 26): LSuarez: 18, SGerrard 19, MSkrtel 20, DAgger 18, JAllen 20, RSterling 16, JEnrique 12, GJohnson 17.

For Reference, Starts (more than 15);

Only RVP (16) and Rafael (19)have started more than 15 games for United this season,
Chelsea have started Hazard (21), Ramires (20) , Torres (20), Mata (19), Oscar (19) , Cole (16), Ivanovic (18), Luiz (17) more than 15 times,
Arsenal have started Carzola (20), Mertesacker (18), Vermaelan (18), Giroud (22), Arteta (20), Podolski (19), Walcott, (17), Gervinho (15).

Looking at those figures, we don't look too bad - however, we haven't played a CL campaign so we shouldn't really have had to expend so much energy competing in the EL. 

What I would say is that further into the season it may be good to bring in players who can bring a lift to a tired team, personally I think Enrique has been a breath of fresh air and brought a real lift to the team (on account of the amount of distance he gets through in a game).

I think we need to be rotating players, giving Sahin/Coates/Shelvey/Suso/Assaidi more minutes so that if they do come into the first team they are not so rusty and can make a real impact should one of our regular first XI have a drop in form.

[John C]

It was an ideal game for Lucas to make his return, Southampton weren't brilliant so he had time to settle and grow in to the game. He eventually snatched the motm award from Stevie's pocket imo.
The ground he (and SG) covered was impressive.
I'm not sure if BR took Lucas off just to give him a little rest or to allow him the deserved standing ovation he received as he exited from a great afternoons work. He was panting a bit towards the end though BabuYagu.

The inclusion of Lucas allowed Allen to play slightly higher which may have unsettled him, he didn't really impact the game and looked weak on the ball at times. Please correct me if I'm wrong as I haven't watched it back again, but was he a bit lost??

I was also personally a tad disappointed with Sterling, I don't think he exploited facing Clyne sufficiently. From my recollection he carried the ball infield rather than running in to the space behind him.

Other positives are the defence, we were hardly peppered by Southampton but they were solid, Glen Johnson plays like he's doubled his value since joining us for £17m, what a player he continues to be. And Agger, again what a player. I loved his body shape as he rose to meet the ball for his goal. Excellent finish from a fantastic player who has proved he was worth sticking with when many, including myself thought we should cut our losses and sell him last year due to his injuries.

However, I agree with yorky about Shelvey, you don't know which JonJo is going to turn up. Sometimes great vision, sometimes seriously wasteful and unimaginative. Sometimes he even looks like he's uncomfortable turning on the ball. Henderson was a shock sub from the gasps where I was sitting, but one thing is certain now - Shelvey and Henderson are not Liverpool FC's central pairing for years to come as many on here wrongly predicted 12 months ago. Hopefully we'll see better of Shelvey when he's compelled to play up-front next week.

It was also great to see renewed energy in SG, irrespective of Southampton being of little threat Stevie was everywhere getting himself involved. More of the same against WHU please captain.

Despite only being 1-0 up there was no panic in the stands, I think people were pretty calm and confident of the win. I thought Assiadi may have been given a run out to cause them a few more problems but he never. Carra was an interesting sub, I'd have hated for that to have gone wrong for BR. If they'd have scored it would have been another sub added to the list of questionable's, however it all worked out and Carra's was able to chew a few ears during his short spell on the Anfield grass on a Saturday afternoon. Of course the same could be said if Assiadi had come on and we'd have conceded.

It was nice to see Adkins get a good reception from their fans, but what another bunch of dolts they turned out to be for obvious reasons.

I can't make a post without mentioning the ref, he had a stinker of a first half resulting in ironic applause when he eventually gave us a decision. How the hell did he and his linesman miss the tug on Luis shorts? The linesman was on that side of the pitch as well.

A win, a clean sheet, a bit of a moan about not destroying relegation fodder at Anfield - what more do you want.

[Fromola]

Rotation. Are we doing enough of it? Who do you think really needs a rest? Does our lack of rotation (if we do indeed lack in that department) look like it will hurt us later in the season?

Starts (out of 26): LSuarez: 18, SGerrard 19, MSkrtel 20, DAgger 18, JAllen 20, RSterling 16, JEnrique 12, GJohnson 17.

In the league we seem to just go with our best XI every week. Reina, Johnson, Skrtel, Agger, Gerrard, Allen, Suarez and Sterling play 90 minutes pretty much every league game they're available for. Lucas would have if he'd been available. So it's only the other full back position and the other forward position (where Borini's been injured) that's been rotated. We're using our squad more in the cups, but even in Europe most of the first XI players have played plenty of minutes over the 9 games.

Going into this run of games Rodgers said he'd need to use his squad, but it hasn't happened. Sahin and Suso, for example, haven't had a kick the last three games, but Sterling and Gerrard have played 90 minutes over the 3 matches and they've looked very tired at times over the three games.

Does our lack of rotation (if we do indeed lack in that department) look like it will hurt us later in the season?

This is my fear. I worry some players will be burnt out by February/March.

[OperationIvy]

Sterling - is it me or is he starting to look a little jaded? Could he use a couple of weeks as an impact sub if needed to recharge his batteries?

I really think he needs a break and Suso given a run. His passing and overall decision making has been pretty poor and id say thats probably down to the pressure. His pace strikes fear in the opposition but its more a case of his bark being worse than his bite.

[JoeyJoneswasbetter]

Overall we were just very good yesterday, in this league we shouldnt judge by who the opponent was. Norwich are on an 8 match unbeaten run conceding 4 goals-now a 5-2 win at Carrow rd looks like a great result!
The football was mostly good but its still a concern not to score more, most centre backs would of got a bit of Agger to prevent such a brilliant header.
Suarez missing a match will be good, gets a rest and we can look at what plan B is-has to be a false 9 type role and likely to be JJS or JC.
What?-he did it in the Bootle youth league!

[Mr Dilkington]

I enjoyed the game. The first half was very good indeed. Contrary to Yorky, I thought that Skrtel had a fine game yesterday. I think sometimes we can be a little harsh towards Martin; because it's so easy to compare him to Agger. How many centre backs are there that are as comfortable on the ball as Agger? Off the top of my head Hummels, Piqué, Terry (underrated), Luiz, and Ramos. Other than that, I think Agger is pretty much on his own. We have to remember how far Skrtel has come in terms of his ability with the ball. He actually comes forward with the ball a lot now, which you can't say for a lot of defenders. People like to say Ferdinand does it, but he doesn't. It's always sideways movements with him. Skrtel has become much more confident coming forward with it - so I admire him for that. Personally I think he and Agger are playing as well as they ever have, and like the team are getting better with every game.

On Sterling: I think he could do with a wee rest now and again, but he's handled it pretty well on the whole. I know it gets said all the time, but he is only 17. He will have patches when he doesn't play well. On the whole though, he's done marvellously well hasn't he? I also think the team could do a lot more to help him too. His movement is unbelievable for a 17 year old, but we don't take advantage of it nearly enough. To me we should be sucking teams in more, and in turn give him more space. That's what Spurs do so well with Bale and Lennon - I think if we learned how to do that we'd be much better off for it.

Glad to see Enrique looking good again. He has all the raw materials there, just needs to cut out the brain farts.

[UntouchableLuis]

The way I see the Shelvey situation is that he's competing directly with Henderson for a place in the team. I've been more impressed with Shelvey when I've seen him but that's more down to his determination than his ability right now. I don't think Henderson is that great a player; I've tried to give him the benefit of the doubt at times but he doesn't seem to have anything special to his game - he can't play great passes, he certainly can't finish and his tackling is hit and miss. Shelvey shows glimpses of something great but I'm unsure if he'll ever be the box to box midfielder we've missed since Gerrard's decline. He needs to be more aware of players around him, needs to stop being so rash at times because when he's on song, he can be a threat.

Sterling definitely needs a rest but with no Suarez we'll lose so much pace and threat up front without those 2 next week.

Defensively the return of Lucas is massive. The defence we had out is the defence we should be playing every week when we can.

We need to be a bit more stronger at times as well; we have a lot of technical small players that will get out-muscled in the big games. I'd like to see us add a bit of strength to the side physically, more players like Enrique.

Thought we were comfortable bar the first 10 minutes or so and should have won by 2 or 3.

Can't say I have much confidence for West Ham and that's because I don't think we have anyone to come in for Suarez and be anywhere near as threatening. Think we should go there with the aim of keeping things solid and trying to score from a set piece or a counter attack. If both sides try and play their usual football can see West Ham definitely scoring which means we need 2 and right now that's hard to come by.

[rossipersempre]

I don't understand round the table. 

What's the point in having another match thread?

For those of us unable to go to the match, or watch on tv (Sky or MotD highlights) or even listen in at the weekend, this thread provides an invaluable catch-up of rational, relatively balanced opinion. Without having to metaphorically don chest waders and lose the will to live having to trudge through the turgid shite usually found in post-match comments, regardless of the actual result. 

Yorky's bit on Lucas is not something you'd see in the media, or in the vast majority of post-match comments, so it's gratifying to be able to pick up on it. It was my first thought when I heard he got the nod.

[Gnurglan]

Played really well. Should have won with more than one goal. Thought we were in complete control. There was energy in our game and we made use of our possession. We didn't just kick it around, we had a purpose. Good to see. Something to build on, for sure.

Perhaps the best thing was to see Lucas back. I reckon he will change the whole midfield and team balance for the better. Thought there were signs of that. And he should improve from here.
Suarez almost always deserves a mention. He's fantastic. Creates so much and he works so hard. We'll miss him next game.

And that's something we have known for a long time. Those two are key for us. Could be our two most important players. With them on, we should climb up the table.

[Henry Kissinger]

For me, the return of Lucas made this an easy to watch 1-0. There were no gaps in the middle for Southampton to walk through as other teams have done recently (YB game in particular).  He looks so comfortable in that role compared to Allen or Sahin, who are much better further forward. He grew into the game and the longer he played the more it looked like he'd never been away. Incredible talent.

Johnson is an incredible right back, the joy he was getting down that flank was causing their defence all manner of problems. It's worth remembering that Saints had been on a good run recently and their confidence was up. So gaining three points, keeping a clean sheet and creating numerous chances against the type of side we've often struggled to break down was great to see.

Allen is worrying me at the moment as he seems to be giving a lot of unnecessary fouls away in dangerous areas. I don't know why this is, he can't be jaded surely.

Two games in succession, Gerrard has been caught in possession in the middle of the park. This never used to happen. I really would like to see him rested more often (not even on the bench) to allow the others the opportunity to take responsibility as in a couple of seasons he won't be around.

Back to the game, I thought Shelvey was brilliant and woeful in equal measure, but as he's only 20 he has plenty of time to iron out those weaknesses. If he had a team of world class players around him we'd be willing to forgive his lapses, but as we're struggling to find our feet at the moment it's being highlighted. Sterling will improve his pass execution, the pass to Suarez against Swansea last week a case in point. He now has two defenders on him when he receives the ball, that's a lot of respect being shown to a 17 yr-old. Just shows how terrified managers are of him. I hope we can sort out his contract soon, now that United and City are sniffing around.  His little pass down the line that took out two Saints players was lovely to watch.

Enrique has to be played in midfield so we need to buy an experienced LB, Rodgers obviously feels that Robinson is one too many kids in the team right now. His brain farts are easily nullified upfield than in or around our penalty box, and his forward running, energy and the one-twos he plays with Suarez are too good to be wasted. 

I don't expect Lucas to play against Udinese as we'll need him for the West Ham game, so I expect Coates will play maybe alongside Skrtel and Agger/Carragher in a back three.

[redbyrdz]

I thought we played well, but were both unlucky (woodwork, again) and a bit slow in front of goal. We should've been scoring a couple and be done with it, Southampton didn't look that good. Their keeper kept spilling the ball after shots, but none of our players seems to gamble on these things.

Our midfield looked so much better with Lucas back. Amazingly, after all that time out, Lucas was just himself again, instantly keeping the midfield together and allowing Gerrard to move forward. He must still be a little rusty, can't wait until he's back to 100%! Though it just emphasises what we all know anyway, we have no other proper DM in the squad.

I did think Sterling looked a tiny bit tired, though he handled it well. I just thought he would've tried a few more things if he'd been well rested.

Shelvey looked lost on the wing, especially on the left. I don't think he's played there much before. I don't quite get why we didn't play Sahin instead, who can play on the left of midfield, especially in front of an attacking fullback. Shelvey looked way more comfortable when he moved upfront and inside, as was the case towards the end of the game, when Southampton allowed nearly everyone a run into their box.

All in all, we played well and won at home - thats a massive improvement...

[Bird Bird Bird The Bird Is The Word]

Welcome back Lucas. He was absolutely immense and after two long injury lay offs in quick succession, I was surprised by how well he played, whilst his passing showed signs of expected rustiness, his tackling and reading of the game was still 100% there.

Cannot wait to see him hit top form under Rodgers, his position has a huge knock on effect on the entire team starting from the midfield that has failed to perform consistently, but there were plenty of signs of it clicking yesterday, Allen put in an impressive performance but it was Gerrard that benefitted the most.

He was making the sort of attacking runs that we've missed from him this season, that he used to get the majority of his goals from. Sterling was unlucky not to find him at the end and if others had been more alert, then they could've set him up for tap ins.

Enrique and Johnson were brilliant, they provided huge amounts of width, really stretched Southampton apart and both of them either created goal scoring chances or had goal scoring chances. Enrique really should've scored but, as we saw against Swansea, he doesn't like using his right foot when shooting.

Johnson was simply Johnson. Fantastic ball in for Agger's goal and was always available for the over lap. As good as the full backs were, Sterling and Shelvey ahead of them weren't effective, I would've liked to have seen Suso come on or even Sahin with Gerrard moved further up.

Shelvey didn't play badly per se, but it's clear that the position he played doesn't suit him or the team at all. I'm not sure if Sterling was tired or that he's played so well for us recently that it's impossible for us to recognise when he's simply just had a below par game.

Either way, the team as a whole played very well, especially in the first half when it was like a game of attack and defense. We won but we didn't score the extra goals that would've made it a comfortable victory.

[goalrushatgoodison]

Sterling - still full of beans far as I can see. Often happens that a player's form dips after his introduction as other teams work them out. Sterling's dip is noticeable but he is still playing to a remarkable standard for a 17 yr old. This guy is a very intelligent player who is growing into his career so we can expect more of the same in the short term with vast improvement in the medium term. Having said that, a rest won't do him any harm.

Suarez - yes he is terrifyingly good! I think next weeks team may be a case of picking the other nine outfield places and choosing one from whatever's left to fill Luis' place. Nobody, fit, in our squad is a natural nine, fake or otherwise, with the exception of Morgan.

Lucas - I was really encouraged by Lucas. I don't expect much agreement here but I felt that even in his stellar time under Kenny, he seemed a little in the shadow of Gerrard. His best games seemed to be when Gerrard was injured. I did not see any signs of this yesterday, he looked like our captain as much as Stevie did. Excellent comeback, regardless of opposition!

Enrique - don't think it matters, given his form at the mo. I think you may see Brendan utilise him at the back in games viewed as easier like yesterdays. I think he will be further forward in the tougher home games as well as most of the away ties.

Shelvey - Not sure Jonjo will ever nail down a regular starting place. That's allowing for his tender age. I do see a huge squad role for him though if he is prepared to give up regular starts for making a positive contribution to a big club.

Southampton - Sitting on the fence here, I think it was a bit of both. However, I was greatly encouraged by the lack of even a sniff of a clear goal scoring opportunity. This is an attacking side that were very comfortably held at bay yesterday.

Coates - Again I don't seem to be with the majority here. From what I have seen of Coates he jumps in to the tackle, often from behind, far too regularly for my liking. He is a threat from set pieces but I don't see a future at the club as a centre half.

[Mutton Geoff]

Watched the whole game now

What positon was Jose supposed to playing? He seemed everywhere all over the pitch.other points now i have watched it all when they get relegated, we need to try and get Luis's Team Mate if we can, i thought their young WB was excellent yesterday as well, matched our wonderful young winger well.
As for rotation perhaps the need for points right now and the injury to Lucas hasn't  allowed for the amount of rotation Rodgers wanted to employ. however looking a yesterdays set up who would you rest other than Luis who we cannot do anything about, i reckon 10 of yesterdays starting line up should be fixtures in the prem, 

Shelvey might be the joker in the pack.

Even more wondering why we tried so hard to get in Sahin, now Lucas is back. Who does he replace?

[Flinstone]

This is how the system is supposed to look

lucas dropping back in between the 2 center backs to make it a back 3 and the wingbacks pushing on. It's no surprise enrique had a good game.he might still have a future here.

if enrique and johnson can be counted on to push forward constantly then you would think that our front three would be fine playing narrow.suarez sterling and ?.

lucas as the base and allen in front of him won't provide too many goals.the third role is perfect for a younger gerrard.he's fading and shelvey isn't the person to replace him.just not dynamic enough.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Marvellous result. Absolutely made up we picked up the three points.

Although I wouldn't say it was a vintage performance - the three points are the most important thing. I think the play was a bit disjointed but we had three great pieces of skill to hit the woodwork twice and finally score. Lucas looked great and Allen seemed more comfortable not facing 2, 3 or 4 players all game as he's been having to do most games. Gerrard looked better forward and it was nice to see the win.

More of the same required and if we can work out how to put in a great performance and also win then that'll be absolutely brilliant.

I can't believe we actually won. Hopefully this will instil some confidence in the league and wins will become more common than they are at present. 3 POINTS!! YEAH!!