Author Topic: The Paradise Papers  (Read 7319 times)

Offline Trada

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The Paradise Papers
« on: November 5, 2017, 09:51:09 pm »
 Revealed: Queen's private estate invested millions of pounds offshore

Paradise Papers leak reveals Duchy of Lancaster put money into retailer criticised for exploiting poor families

Millions of pounds from the Queen’s private estate has been invested in a Cayman Islands fund as part of an offshore portfolio that has never before been disclosed, according to documents revealed in an investigation into offshore tax havens.

Files from a substantial leak show for the first time how the Queen, through the Duchy of Lancaster, has held and still holds investments via funds that have put money into an array of businesses, including the off-licence chain Threshers, and the retailer BrightHouse, which has been criticised for exploiting thousands of poor families and vulnerable people.

The duchy admitted it had no idea about its 12-year investment in BrightHouse until approached by the Guardian and other partners in an international project called the Paradise Papers.

Though the duchy characterised its stake in BrightHouse as negligible, it would not disclose the size of its original 2005 investment, which coincided with a boom in the company’s value. BrightHouse has since been accused of overcharging customers, and using hard sell tactics on people with mental health problems and learning disabilities. Last month, it was ordered to pay £14.8m in compensation to 249,000 customers.

Critics are likely to ask why the Queen had money in there in the first place, and the duchy may face awkward questions about whether there was enough oversight and management of the Queen’s “onward investments” to ensure they remained ethical.
Paradise Papers leak reveals secrets of the world elite's hidden wealth
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The duchy has also disclosed investments in “a few overseas funds”, including one in Ireland, and will be under pressure to give details of where the money is being held.

Although the estate said it received no tax advantages from investing offshore, the revelations about the finances of the Queen, one of the world’s richest women, will likely re-energise campaign groups and some MPs who have demanded greater scrutiny of royal spending. The disclosures also highlight the lack of transparency that has been a concern for critics, who have railed against the moral ambiguities of the offshore sector and demanded major changes.

The details of the Queen’s offshore dealings come from a leak of 13.4m files from two offshore service providers and the company registries of 19 tax havens.

The material was obtained by the German newspaper Süddeutsche Zeitung and shared by the International Consortium of Investigative Journalists with partners including the Guardian, the BBC and the New York Times.

The Duchy of Lancaster is a private estate managed to generate a return for the reigning monarch. It was set up in 1399 and manages land and investments held in trust for the Queen, who also holds the title of the Duke of Lancaster.

The most recent filings by the duchy show it had assets worth £519m at the end of March. The Paradise Papers offer an unprecedented glimpse of the way the duchy has invested some of its money, including details of complex offshore arrangements not set out in the royal household’s annual statements.

According to the leak, the duchy has used offshore private equity funds designed to shield UK investors from having to pay US tax on their holdings.

Investors who do not pay tax in the UK can face a tax bill if they invest in certain types of funds in the US, although the duchy said it gained no tax advantage from investing via the Caymans.

The stakes in Threshers and BrightHouse can be traced back to an investment into one of these schemes by the duchy in 2005. The papers show it committed £7.5m to Dover Street VI Cayman Fund LP.

The duchy became a limited partner in the scheme at the same time. Dover Street VI Cayman Fund LP is a “feeder” for another American fund, which invests in venture capital and private equity funds around the world.

Letters in the Paradise Papers show how the duchy’s money sluiced through various funds, and where it ended up. Managers from Dover Street set out what cash they needed and where they had been putting it on behalf of investors.

In a letter dated September 2007, they explain they have taken an interest in a private equity vehicle called Vision Capital Partners VI B LP. The Dover Street fund was one of 27 limited partners making an investment.

The letter explains that this was “formed by Vision Capital Partners to acquire a portfolio of two retailers in the United Kingdom”. Two months earlier, Vision Capital Partners VI B LP had bought BrightHouse and Threshers.

The investment in Vision Capital Partners by the Dover Street fund was among several outlined in the managers’ call for funding, to which the duchy was asked to contribute $450,000 (£344,000) – 6% of its commitment.

The Dover Street VI fund was set up to run until the end of December 2014 and since then has been selling off its holdings and returning funds to investors. It is unclear from the leak what has been returned to the duchy. The Paradise Papers show only one payout from the fund, a letter from June 2008 explaining the duchy was entitled to $361,367.

It seems to have received the distribution after paying a tiny amount of tax – 0.4% ($1,505) – which it appears to have offset against the next payment into the fund.

BrightHouse, which has more than 270 stores across the UK, has previously denied claims as to its conduct and accused critics of misrepresenting the business. But it has been under investigation by the Financial Conduct Authority, which last month said it was not a responsible lender.

The company was also forced to change the way it checked customers’ finances before granting them loans, in order to keep its consumer credit licence.

BrightHouse has limited its tax bill through a large loan to a Luxembourg holding company. Between 2007 and 2014, it reported £1.6bn in revenue and made an operating profit of £191m, but paid less than £6m in corporation tax, analysis by Private Eye found. The duchy’s chief finance officer, Chris Adcock, told the Guardian it had been unaware of the indirect holding in BrightHouse.

“Investors commit to a fund for a given period and are not party to its ongoing investment decisions,” he said.

The Paradise Papers show that through the same indirect investment, the Queen’s money was invested in Threshers before it went into administration in 2009.

When asked what other offshore holdings the duchy has, Adcock said it “invests in a fund domiciled in Ireland”, but declined to give details. In a second statement, the duchy admitted it “operates a number of investments and a few of these are with overseas funds. All of our investments are fully audited and legitimised”.

The duchy would not give details of the size of the original stake in 2005, or what had been taken out since then.

“The Dover Street investment was bought in 2005 and forms only 0.3% of the total value of the duchy. The duchy investment in Brighthouse is through a third party and equates to £3,208,” it said.

Adcock confirmed that the duchy invested £5m in the Jubilee Absolute Return Fund, which invests in hedge funds. At the time of the investment in June 2004, the fund was based in Bermuda. In 2006, it moved to Guernsey.

At the outset, the fund’s manager, Fauchier Partners, sought assurance that it would not be taxed in Bermuda on its income or any gains until 2016. The fund, which has been invested in by a string of charities and council pension funds, is now run by a different manager and has been renamed the Permal Absolute Return Fund.

The papers do not make clear what money, if any, the duchy made from this arrangement. Adcock said the duchy had redeemed its stake in the fund in 2010, but its investment in the Dover Street fund was expected to last for another two to three years while the fund was wound up.

“We are not aware of any tax advantages to the duchy in investing in offshore funds. The duchy’s investment policy is based on advice and recommendations from our investment consultants and asset allocation, rather than tax strategy,” he said.

In a statement, BrightHouse said it complies with all relevant tax regulations and pays tax in full and on time.

“We are appreciated by our customers, because we help those financially excluded on the basis of low incomes and poor credit histories to get everyday items they otherwise couldn’t have,” the company said.

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2017/nov/05/revealed-queen-private-estate-invested-offshore-paradise-papers
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Re: The Paradise Papers
« Reply #1 on: November 5, 2017, 10:09:23 pm »
The Royal Family taking everything they can get their greedy hands on and yet being rather unwilling to give back?

Surely not?

Offline Trada

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Re: The Paradise Papers
« Reply #2 on: November 5, 2017, 10:10:40 pm »
Who are the real owners of Everton?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41878954

« Last Edit: November 5, 2017, 10:12:43 pm by Trada »
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Offline Trada

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Re: The Paradise Papers
« Reply #3 on: November 5, 2017, 10:31:22 pm »
Panorama tonight is well worth a watching just for Lord Ashcroft being chased around the Tory conference and hiding in the toilets

The 2nd part is tomorrow night.
« Last Edit: November 5, 2017, 10:51:40 pm by Trada »
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Offline hide5seek

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Re: The Paradise Papers
« Reply #4 on: November 6, 2017, 08:39:37 am »
The Royal Family taking everything they can get their greedy hands on and yet being rather unwilling to give back?

Surely not?
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Re: The Paradise Papers
« Reply #5 on: November 6, 2017, 10:25:40 am »
Biggest benefit scroungers of them all.

The queen has essentially taken money given by taxpayers, and then invested that money in companies that exploit some of the poorest of those taxpayers, to make more money.
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Offline 12C

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Re: The Paradise Papers
« Reply #6 on: November 6, 2017, 10:27:14 am »
Panorama tonight is well worth a watching just for Lord Ashcroft being chased around the Tory conference and hiding in the toilets

The 2nd part is tomorrow night.

And the Express full of the Queens dodgy tax dealings - the hypocrisy we have come to expect from Ashcroft and his ilk
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Re: The Paradise Papers
« Reply #7 on: November 6, 2017, 11:39:22 am »
The Queen issue is pretty small fry in the wider scheme of tax-dodging, but will be used by the media mouthpieces of the corporate-capitalist 'elite' to focus attention.

We'll never rid the world of this sort of tax-dodging shithousery, though. Governments are under varying levels of control by multinationals and plutocrats, from being influenced in policy to being little more than stooges. And, whilst governments will make noises about closing loopholes  - and will occasionally give a public show of making an example of a high-profile case - none will implement the sort of measures that will halt these pernicious practices. The UK Government especially has a deliberate policy of supporting the use of its overseas territories as tax havens and conduits for questionable money movements.

Meanwhile, governments around the world are denied $trillions in dodged tax - not just depriving public services of funding, but shunting the taxation burden for remaining spending onto those people for whom paying an accountant to help them dodge tax is simply not financially viable.

It's the scourge of the modern age, and just one reason by the gap between the 'top 1%' and the rest of us in the developed world is ever-widening.
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Re: The Paradise Papers
« Reply #8 on: November 6, 2017, 12:49:43 pm »
Biggest benefit scroungers of them all.

Yep. It's the hard working average man/woman who suffers the most.
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Offline killer-heels

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Re: The Paradise Papers
« Reply #9 on: November 6, 2017, 01:11:40 pm »
The government should be committed to really closing down these loopholes. Then they should raise tax on the highest earners and corporate tax whilst they are there.

 

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Re: The Paradise Papers
« Reply #10 on: November 6, 2017, 01:36:18 pm »
The government should be committed to really closing down these loopholes. Then they should raise tax on the highest earners and corporate tax whilst they are there.

 Taxing income would make minimum difference. If you want to really tackle inewuakity, you've got to tax wealth.
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Re: The Paradise Papers
« Reply #11 on: November 6, 2017, 01:39:33 pm »
Brighthouse should stick the old HRH logo on their windows, Royal approved choice of loan sharks.

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Re: The Paradise Papers
« Reply #12 on: November 6, 2017, 02:19:31 pm »
The government should be committed to really closing down these loopholes. Then they should raise tax on the highest earners and corporate tax whilst they are there.

When you say 'the government', you do mean this government?

If so, do you really think a government who are by nature the biggest bitches for the corporatocracy and the plutocratic elite, who rely on donations from hugely wealthy individuals and corporations, are going to close the loopholes.

Additionally, whilst I absolutely agree with the principle of increasing Corporation Tax, the current global arrangements which allow the practice of "tax HQ'ing" mean that corporations simply move their profits to a lower-tax territory if they feel they're paying too much. I'd like to see the EU introduce an EU-wide corporation tax rate, to stop places like Luxembourg & Ireland [ab]using the rate discrepancies to allow multinationals to exploit this loophole.
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Re: The Paradise Papers
« Reply #13 on: November 6, 2017, 02:24:08 pm »
Taxing income would make minimum difference. If you want to really tackle inewuakity, you've got to tax wealth.

Tax that as well.

When you say 'the government', you do mean this government?

If so, do you really think a government who are by nature the biggest bitches for the corporatocracy and the plutocratic elite, who rely on donations from hugely wealthy individuals and corporations, are going to close the loopholes.

Additionally, whilst I absolutely agree with the principle of increasing Corporation Tax, the current global arrangements which allow the practice of "tax HQ'ing" mean that corporations simply move their profits to a lower-tax territory if they feel they're paying too much. I'd like to see the EU introduce an EU-wide corporation tax rate, to stop places like Luxembourg & Ireland [ab]using the rate discrepancies to allow multinationals to exploit this loophole.

They are not, but I am *hoping* Labour double down on their pledges to do that.

Yep, even after Brexit I don't see why the whole of the EU and Britain couldn't commit to a similar rate. Its a bit ridiculous what Ireland do.

Offline Trada

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Re: The Paradise Papers
« Reply #14 on: November 6, 2017, 02:56:16 pm »
I see the stars of Mrs Brown's Boys are mixed up in this.

I hope they have lots more to reveal tonight seeing Panorama is an hour long.
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Re: The Paradise Papers
« Reply #15 on: November 6, 2017, 06:48:54 pm »
Its seems Lewis Hamilton is caught up in the Private Jets to the Isle of Man scheme.
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Offline Trada

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Re: The Paradise Papers
« Reply #16 on: November 6, 2017, 07:12:12 pm »
The Tories were asked if Mays husband has any off shore accounts they said they would get back with the answer later.

I guess they are going to watch Panorama first to see if he turns up in it.
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Offline Medellin

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Re: The Paradise Papers
« Reply #17 on: November 6, 2017, 07:47:01 pm »
If anyone is guilty of tax avoidance/fraud they should be imprisoned the same way the likes of Lester Piggott did.
Greedy c*nts.
Fuckall will be done.
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Re: The Paradise Papers
« Reply #18 on: November 6, 2017, 07:57:52 pm »
If anyone is guilty of tax avoidance/fraud they should be imprisoned the same way the likes of Lester Piggott did.
Greedy c*nts.
Fuckall will be done.

Exactly why this all feels like a non story to me. Were there any ramifications for anyone in this country from the Panama Papers? It should be a huge deal but people simply don't give a fuck.
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Re: The Paradise Papers
« Reply #19 on: November 6, 2017, 08:06:01 pm »
If anyone is guilty of tax avoidance/fraud they should be imprisoned the same way the likes of Lester Piggott did.
Greedy c*nts.
Fuckall will be done.


Knowing people who worked on another high-profile tax-dodging court case around that time, involving an arsehole from these parts, the verdict was an absolute travesty.

Perhaps Piggott, like this other frizzy-haired c*nt, should have been a very public supporter of The Thatcher and her party, and strings would have been pulled.
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Offline Trada

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Re: The Paradise Papers
« Reply #20 on: November 6, 2017, 08:18:20 pm »
The Tories were asked if Mays husband has any off shore accounts they said they would get back with the answer later.

I guess they are going to watch Panorama first to see if he turns up in it.

I guess thats a yes then.

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Re: The Paradise Papers
« Reply #21 on: November 6, 2017, 09:13:49 pm »
Nothing will be done


FUCK THE POOR
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Offline Trada

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Re: The Paradise Papers
« Reply #22 on: November 6, 2017, 09:28:11 pm »
They should had called this episode of Panorama "Finding the magic money tree"
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Re: The Paradise Papers
« Reply #23 on: November 6, 2017, 10:45:21 pm »
Tax avoidance, legal. Tax evasion, illegal.
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Re: The Paradise Papers
« Reply #24 on: November 6, 2017, 10:46:22 pm »
Tax avoidance, legal. Tax evasion, illegal.
Legal, yes it is..  But is it morally right?  No is the easy answer, but it’s a bit greyer than that... But mostly no.
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Re: The Paradise Papers
« Reply #25 on: November 6, 2017, 11:08:22 pm »
Legal, yes it is..  But is it morally right?  No is the easy answer, but it’s a bit greyer than that... But mostly no.

Its why these leaks are so important- two ways this will change are pressure on politicians to simplify the laws to reduce loopholes and the reputational risk of being caught. Sending a few to jail with their tax advisors would help too, bit we don't seem to punish white collar crime here for some reason.

It needs to be seen as morally wrong- not a thing rich people think 'everyone does it so I will aswell'.

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Re: The Paradise Papers
« Reply #26 on: November 6, 2017, 11:10:51 pm »
Tax avoidance, legal. Tax evasion, illegal.
Of course but I think a few people were dropped right in it tonight.
Mrs Brown actors scheme.
Wages paid direct to Mauritius and they are given the money back as a loan.
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Re: The Paradise Papers
« Reply #27 on: November 6, 2017, 11:12:42 pm »
Its why these leaks are so important- two ways this will change are pressure on politicians to simplify the laws to reduce loopholes and the reputational risk of being caught. Sending a few to jail with their tax advisors would help too, bit we don't seem to punish white collar crime here for some reason.

It needs to be seen as morally wrong- not a thing rich people think 'everyone does it so I will aswell'.
If it’s legal then you chat send them to jail...

One of the reasons tax is so complex, is to try and stop this sort of thing..
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Re: The Paradise Papers
« Reply #28 on: November 6, 2017, 11:20:09 pm »
If it’s legal then you chat send them to jail...

One of the reasons tax is so complex, is to try and stop this sort of thing..

I'd argue its the complexity that makes this sort of thing happen. Rules around anything from royalties to transfer pricing create opportunities for firms to move money around sham groups of companies, which have no economic purpose other than to avoid tax, that lead to this. It also makes it harder for individual tax authorities to track this and see where tax should be paid- some of Apple's structures are not even domiciled in any country for goodness sake!

Complexity makes it easier to hide things- our tax code in the UK is currently 17,000 pages long apparently! What is the reason for this other than to give people ample opportunity to dodge taxes (legally)?

Edit: I agree that you can't send anyone to jail if its legal- but lots of people have had to repay money when schemes have closed (Take That, etc)- its not enough to pay back some tax after getting caught and being able to walk away. It needs real punishment
« Last Edit: November 6, 2017, 11:22:26 pm by cdav »

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Re: The Paradise Papers
« Reply #29 on: November 6, 2017, 11:23:46 pm »
Of course but I think a few people were dropped right in it tonight.
Mrs Brown actors scheme.
Wages paid direct to Mauritius and they are given the money back as a loan.
How can you get a loan or expect to pay back a loan of £100 k when your not earning a wage. to add insult to injury they are taking out big loans of over £70k every few months. it's going to be embarresing watching them try to squirm out of it when the tax man knock on the door. if your not paying anything back then it's a gift. 40% tax due.
I don't think an excuse of not understanding the tax system will wash. you earn, you expect to pay tax. am shocked how wide open they've left themselves.
why they just didn’t have some sort of nominal repayment like £1 a month to cover their arses on that I don’t know

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Re: The Paradise Papers
« Reply #30 on: November 6, 2017, 11:25:20 pm »
Panorama got this information illegally - why isn't this mentioned more?

I don't like all this trial by media now days.  If things are wrong, then report it to the police, the regulators, the Government - whatever is the correct means.  Not making false accusations and damaging reputations.  Cliff Richard has just had that issue and now his reputation is wrongly shattered.

You don't do a programme, without knowing all the evidence and implying all of this is wrong, when actually it is legal.  If a Trust is breached, then sure - it should be void and the regulators should act upon it. 

Is it moral?  I don't know, probably not - is cash in hand fair?!  But let's be honest the rich are saving tax.  But this is generating thousands and thousands of other jobs for people who do pay their full tax. 

If they stopped these loopholes, then these rich people will merely move to places where they can get away with it or they'll find different ways to avoid tax. 

Closing the loopholes with the IOM or Jersey will not solve anything, other than huge unemployment.

I thought the presenter was awful with his harassment of certain people.  He might have evidence of wrong doing, but you can't harass people and follow then around the way he did.  You going about justice the right way.

I also think the most important thing was that the information that they obtained was from an illegal hack! 
« Last Edit: November 6, 2017, 11:27:02 pm by Klippity Klopp »

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Re: The Paradise Papers
« Reply #31 on: November 6, 2017, 11:34:20 pm »
why they just didn’t have some sort of nominal repayment like £1 a month to cover their arses on that I don’t know
Yeah,argued they hoped to pay more when things picked up. :)
I agree though, right and wrong dosen't come into it. pay a small amount back and they could at least argue the money they received wern't gifts. going to be interesting to see how this develops.
It might take our producers five minutes to find 60 economists who feared Brexit and five hours to find a sole voice who espoused it.
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Re: The Paradise Papers
« Reply #32 on: November 6, 2017, 11:37:39 pm »
Of course but I think a few people were dropped right in it tonight.
Mrs Brown actors scheme.Wages paid direct to Mauritius and they are given the money back as a loan.

They are just the unlucky ones, as they are victims of an illegal hack.

What they are doing is legal.

The information Panorama have access to is not!

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Re: The Paradise Papers
« Reply #33 on: November 6, 2017, 11:45:15 pm »
Panorama got this information illegally - why isn't this mentioned more?

I don't like all this trial by media now days.  If things are wrong, then report it to the police, the regulators, the Government - whatever is the correct means.  Not making false accusations and damaging reputations.  Cliff Richard has just had that issue and now his reputation is wrongly shattered.

You don't do a programme, without knowing all the evidence and implying all of this is wrong, when actually it is legal.  If a Trust is breached, then sure - it should be void and the regulators should act upon it. 

Is it moral?  I don't know, probably not - is cash in hand fair?!  But let's be honest the rich are saving tax.  But this is generating thousands and thousands of other jobs for people who do pay their full tax. 

If they stopped these loopholes, then these rich people will merely move to places where they can get away with it or they'll find different ways to avoid tax. 

Closing the loopholes with the IOM or Jersey will not solve anything, other than huge unemployment.

I thought the presenter was awful with his harassment of certain people.  He might have evidence of wrong doing, but you can't harass people and follow then around the way he did.  You going about justice the right way.

I also think the most important thing was that the information that they obtained was from an illegal hack!
They certainly will after we leave the EU in 2019. The UK, one the big reasons the big earners want us to leave is the EU tax directive come out in early 2019 to enable Countrys to clamp down on tax evasion.
https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/business/company-tax/anti-tax-avoidance-package/anti-tax-avoidance-directive_en
It might take our producers five minutes to find 60 economists who feared Brexit and five hours to find a sole voice who espoused it.
“But by the time we went on air we simply had one of each; we presented this unequal effort to our audience as balance. It wasn’t.”
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Re: The Paradise Papers
« Reply #34 on: November 6, 2017, 11:45:16 pm »

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Re: The Paradise Papers
« Reply #35 on: November 6, 2017, 11:52:30 pm »
They certainly will after we leave the EU in 2019. The UK, one the big reasons the big earners want us to leave is the EU tax directive come out in early 2019 to enable Countrys to clamp down on tax evasion.
https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/business/company-tax/anti-tax-avoidance-package/anti-tax-avoidance-directive_en

So the UK lose big businesses, rich individuals, huge jobs losses in these offshore jurisdictions and actually the country is probably worse off.


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Re: The Paradise Papers
« Reply #36 on: November 6, 2017, 11:53:46 pm »
They are just the unlucky ones, as they are victims of an illegal hack.

What they are doing is legal.

The information Panorama have access to is not!
Assuming the facts are right how can it be legal, they've earned a wage but asked the wage to be sent to another country, so what. they live in this country don't they, they didn't exploit any tax loophole here, the only reason they got away with it up to now is because the tax man didn't know about it, it's not even a clever scheme, they've left themselves wide open.
It might take our producers five minutes to find 60 economists who feared Brexit and five hours to find a sole voice who espoused it.
“But by the time we went on air we simply had one of each; we presented this unequal effort to our audience as balance. It wasn’t.”
               Emily Maitlis

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Re: The Paradise Papers
« Reply #37 on: November 6, 2017, 11:59:13 pm »
Assuming the facts are right how can it be legal, they've earned a wage but asked the wage to be sent to another country, so what. they live in this country don't they, they didn't exploit any tax loophole here, the only reason they got away with it up to now is because the tax man didn't know about it, it's not even a clever scheme, they've left themselves wide open.
isnt this the same sort of thing as footballers with image rights? Although in the case of footballers that’s a smaller proportion of their salary generally which is I think generally taxed

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Re: The Paradise Papers
« Reply #38 on: November 7, 2017, 12:08:31 am »
So the UK lose big businesses, rich individuals, huge jobs losses in these offshore jurisdictions and actually the country is probably worse off.
Yes but we won't be loosing the rich individuals,they may not invest here or pay tax here but they still may live here. the EUs power is it acts as one, the big multi nationals cant buy off any EU country as it's against the law.
Trumps m8 was on tv tonight arguing the USA +UK will do a deal, he was asked about tax avoidance, his answer is we have to make it more attractive for big businesses not to move assets abroad?
He tore into the EU for being extreme protectionists.
Now the leave supporters may cheer but what he's actually saying is the USA+UK need to relax their tax laws on the rich and the Multi nationals. he's arguing the EU are trying to stop this and it's wrong.
It might take our producers five minutes to find 60 economists who feared Brexit and five hours to find a sole voice who espoused it.
“But by the time we went on air we simply had one of each; we presented this unequal effort to our audience as balance. It wasn’t.”
               Emily Maitlis

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Re: The Paradise Papers
« Reply #39 on: November 7, 2017, 12:14:17 am »
Assuming the facts are right how can it be legal, they've earned a wage but asked the wage to be sent to another country, so what. they live in this country don't they, they didn't exploit any tax loophole here, the only reason they got away with it up to now is because the tax man didn't know about it, it's not even a clever scheme, they've left themselves wide open.

It's legal.  I don't think that is even up for discussion - they even admitted that on Panorama.

None of this is new either.

It has been happening for many, many years - actually now it is more regulated than in the past so actually the 'dirty money' has been minimised massively with the extra compliance checks and regulations.

Now certain individuals might have breached the rules of the legal trusts and tax vehicles, they are the ones who need to be dealt with.  They aren't meat to control these trusts, the trustees are in the jurisdiction where the companies are.  But this is why all these companies are highly regulated to ensure that wrong doing doesn't occur and when it does, action is taken. 

The structures are perfectly legal though and I don't think closing the loopholes will do nothing but hinder all of the UK - with loses of jobs, big business probably leaving and then the UK are in a bigger mess.

The Labour party have been shown to be using these loopholes themselves and they are one of the main drivers behind all this.



Maybe the Telegraph are wrong in what they are reporting there?  But that doesn't seem to be a problem when Panorama do this with false accusations.  Maybe they are right - then it is a touch hypocritical.

Maybe the UK would be better off debating and focussing on real issues which might help benefit this country.  Instead of this trial by media, from hacked information and which if the loopholes are closed would probably hinder the UK more than benefit them.
« Last Edit: November 7, 2017, 12:23:08 am by Klippity Klopp »