Author Topic: The DNC, Democrats and Wild Baseless Extrapolation of Election Results  (Read 10546 times)

Offline Derzyjudek

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Well would you look at that!

www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/11/02/clinton-brazile-hacks-2016-215774

Inside Hillary Clinton’s Secret Takeover of the DNC

When I was asked to run the Democratic Party after the Russians hacked our emails, I stumbled onto a shocking truth about the Clinton campaign.

By DONNA BRAZILE


Before I called Bernie Sanders, I lit a candle in my living room and put on some gospel music. I wanted to center myself for what I knew would be an emotional phone call.

I had promised Bernie when I took the helm of the Democratic National Committee after the convention that I would get to the bottom of whether Hillary Clinton’s team had rigged the nomination process, as a cache of emails stolen by Russian hackers and posted online had suggested. I’d had my suspicions from the moment I walked in the door of the DNC a month or so earlier, based on the leaked emails. But who knew if some of them might have been forged? I needed to have solid proof, and so did Bernie.

So I followed the money. My predecessor, Florida Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz, had not been the most active chair in fundraising at a time when President Barack Obama’s neglect had left the party in significant debt. As Hillary’s campaign gained momentum, she resolved the party’s debt and put it on a starvation diet. It had become dependent on her campaign for survival, for which she expected to wield control of its operations.

Debbie was not a good manager. She hadn’t been very interested in controlling the party—she let Clinton’s headquarters in Brooklyn do as it desired so she didn’t have to inform the party officers how bad the situation was. How much control Brooklyn had and for how long was still something I had been trying to uncover for the last few weeks.

By September 7, the day I called Bernie, I had found my proof and it broke my heart.


The Saturday morning after the convention in July, I called Gary Gensler, the chief financial officer of Hillary’s campaign. He wasted no words. He told me the Democratic Party was broke and $2 million in debt.

“What?” I screamed. “I am an officer of the party and they’ve been telling us everything is fine and they were raising money with no problems.”

That wasn’t true, he said. Officials from Hillary’s campaign had taken a look at the DNC’s books. Obama left the party $24 million in debt—$15 million in bank debt and more than $8 million owed to vendors after the 2012 campaign—and had been paying that off very slowly. Obama’s campaign was not scheduled to pay it off until 2016. Hillary for America (the campaign) and the Hillary Victory Fund (its joint fundraising vehicle with the DNC) had taken care of 80 percent of the remaining debt in 2016, about $10 million, and had placed the party on an allowance.

If I didn’t know about this, I assumed that none of the other officers knew about it, either. That was just Debbie’s way. In my experience she didn’t come to the officers of the DNC for advice and counsel. She seemed to make decisions on her own and let us know at the last minute what she had decided, as she had done when she told us about the hacking only minutes before the Washington Post broke the news.

On the phone Gary told me the DNC had needed a $2 million loan, which the campaign had arranged.

“No! That can’t be true!” I said. “The party cannot take out a loan without the unanimous agreement of all of the officers.”

“Gary, how did they do this without me knowing?” I asked. “I don’t know how Debbie relates to the officers,” Gary said. He described the party as fully under the control of Hillary’s campaign, which seemed to confirm the suspicions of the Bernie camp. The campaign had the DNC on life support, giving it money every month to meet its basic expenses, while the campaign was using the party as a fund-raising clearinghouse. Under FEC law, an individual can contribute a maximum of $2,700 directly to a presidential campaign. But the limits are much higher for contributions to state parties and a party’s national committee.

Individuals who had maxed out their $2,700 contribution limit to the campaign could write an additional check for $353,400 to the Hillary Victory Fund—that figure represented $10,000 to each of the 32 states’ parties who were part of the Victory Fund agreement—$320,000—and $33,400 to the DNC. The money would be deposited in the states first, and transferred to the DNC shortly after that. Money in the battleground states usually stayed in that state, but all the other states funneled that money directly to the DNC, which quickly transferred the money to Brooklyn.

“Wait,” I said. “That victory fund was supposed to be for whoever was the nominee, and the state party races. You’re telling me that Hillary has been controlling it since before she got the nomination?”

Gary said the campaign had to do it or the party would collapse.

“That was the deal that Robby struck with Debbie,” he explained, referring to campaign manager Robby Mook. “It was to sustain the DNC. We sent the party nearly $20 million from September until the convention, and more to prepare for the election.”

“What’s the burn rate, Gary?” I asked. “How much money do we need every month to fund the party?”

The burn rate was $3.5 million to $4 million a month, he said.

I gasped. I had a pretty good sense of the DNC’s operations after having served as interim chair five years earlier. Back then the monthly expenses were half that. What had happened? The party chair usually shrinks the staff between presidential election campaigns, but Debbie had chosen not to do that. She had stuck lots of consultants on the DNC payroll, and Obama’s consultants were being financed by the DNC, too.

When we hung up, I was livid. Not at Gary, but at this mess I had inherited. I knew that Debbie had outsourced a lot of the management of the party and had not been the greatest at fundraising. I would not be that kind of chair, even if I was only an interim chair. Did they think I would just be a surrogate for them, get on the road and rouse up the crowds? I was going to manage this party the best I could and try to make it better, even if Brooklyn did not like this. It would be weeks before I would fully understand the financial shenanigans that were keeping the party on life support.

Right around the time of the convention, the leaked emails revealed Hillary’s campaign was grabbing money from the state parties for its own purposes, leaving the states with very little to support down-ballot races. A Politico story published on May 2, 2016, described the big fund-raising vehicle she had launched through the states the summer before, quoting a vow she had made to rebuild “the party from the ground up … when our state parties are strong, we win. That’s what will happen.”

Yet the states kept less than half of 1 percent of the $82 million they had amassed from the extravagant fund-raisers Hillary’s campaign was holding, just as Gary had described to me when he and I talked in August. When the Politico story described this arrangement as “essentially … money laundering” for the Clinton campaign, Hillary’s people were outraged at being accused of doing something shady. Bernie’s people were angry for their own reasons, saying this was part of a calculated strategy to throw the nomination to Hillary.

I wanted to believe Hillary, who made campaign finance reform part of her platform, but I had made this pledge to Bernie and did not want to disappoint him. I kept asking the party lawyers and the DNC staff to show me the agreements that the party had made for sharing the money they raised, but there was a lot of shuffling of feet and looking the other way.

When I got back from a vacation in Martha’s Vineyard, I at last found the document that described it all: the Joint Fund-Raising Agreement between the DNC, the Hillary Victory Fund, and Hillary for America.

The agreement—signed by Amy Dacey, the former CEO of the DNC, and Robby Mook with a copy to Marc Elias—specified that in exchange for raising money and investing in the DNC, Hillary would control the party’s finances, strategy, and all the money raised. Her campaign had the right of refusal of who would be the party communications director, and it would make final decisions on all the other staff. The DNC also was required to consult with the campaign about all other staffing, budgeting, data, analytics, and mailings.

I had been wondering why it was that I couldn’t write a press release without passing it by Brooklyn. Well, here was the answer.

When the party chooses the nominee, the custom is that the candidate’s team starts to exercise more control over the party. If the party has an incumbent candidate, as was the case with Clinton in 1996 or Obama in 2012, this kind of arrangement is seamless because the party already is under the control of the president. When you have an open contest without an incumbent and competitive primaries, the party comes under the candidate’s control only after the nominee is certain. When I was manager of Al Gore’s campaign in 2000, we started inserting our people into the DNC in June. This victory fund agreement, however, had been signed in August 2015, just four months after Hillary announced her candidacy and nearly a year before she officially had the nomination.

I had tried to search out any other evidence of internal corruption that would show that the DNC was rigging the system to throw the primary to Hillary, but I could not find any in party affairs or among the staff. I had gone department by department, investigating individual conduct for evidence of skewed decisions, and I was happy to see that I had found none. Then I found this agreement.

The funding arrangement with HFA and the victory fund agreement was not illegal, but it sure looked unethical. If the fight had been fair, one campaign would not have control of the party before the voters had decided which one they wanted to lead. This was not a criminal act, but as I saw it, it compromised the party’s integrity.

I had to keep my promise to Bernie. I was in agony as I dialed him. Keeping this secret was against everything that I stood for, all that I valued as a woman and as a public servant.

“Hello, senator. I’ve completed my review of the DNC and I did find the cancer,” I said. “But I will not kill the patient.”

I discussed the fundraising agreement that each of the candidates had signed. Bernie was familiar with it, but he and his staff ignored it. They had their own way of raising money through small donations. I described how Hillary’s campaign had taken it another step.


I told Bernie I had found Hillary’s Joint Fundraising Agreement. I explained that the cancer was that she had exerted this control of the party long before she became its nominee. Had I known this, I never would have accepted the interim chair position, but here we were with only weeks before the election.

Bernie took this stoically. He did not yell or express outrage. Instead he asked me what I thought Hillary’s chances were. The polls were unanimous in her winning but what, he wanted to know, was my own assessment?

I had to be frank with him. I did not trust the polls, I said. I told him I had visited states around the country and I found a lack of enthusiasm for her everywhere. I was concerned about the Obama coalition and about millennials.

I urged Bernie to work as hard as he could to bring his supporters into the fold with Hillary, and to campaign with all the heart and hope he could muster. He might find some of her positions too centrist, and her coziness with the financial elites distasteful, but he knew and I knew that the alternative was a person who would put the very future of the country in peril. I knew he heard me. I knew he agreed with me, but I never in my life had felt so tiny and powerless as I did making that call.

When I hung up the call to Bernie, I started to cry, not out of guilt, but out of anger. We would go forward. We had to.


Donna Brazile is the former interim chair of the Democratic National Committee. Excerpted from the book Hacks: The Inside Story of the Break-ins and Breakdowns that Put Donald Drumpf in the White House to be published on November 7, 2017 by Hachette Books, a division of Hachette Book Group. Copyright 2017 Donna Brazile.

« Last Edit: November 3, 2017, 02:38:01 pm by SParklers »
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Offline Alan_X

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Re: Re: The F*cking Liar & Deranged Animal.
« Reply #1 on: November 3, 2017, 11:35:48 am »
Well would you look at that!

www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/11/02/clinton-brazile-hacks-2016-215774

Inside Hillary Clinton’s Secret Takeover of the DNC

Interesting - If I understand the facts, the DNC was dying on it's arse in debt and relied on Clinton's fundraising to keep it afloat. She leveraged that which wasn't illegal but possibly unethical.

Bernie Sanders was an independent who wanted to ride the coat tails of the Democratic Party. In fact it's been confirmed that the Great Hope of the Democratic Party is going to run as an independent in 2018:

https://www.salon.com/2017/10/24/sanders-betrays-democrats-announces-reelection-run-as-an-independent/

Sid Lowe (@sidlowe)
09/03/2011 08:04
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Offline Derzyjudek

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Re: Re: The F*cking Liar & Deranged Animal.
« Reply #2 on: November 3, 2017, 11:51:01 am »
Interesting - If I understand the facts, the DNC was dying on it's arse in debt and relied on Clinton's fundraising to keep it afloat. She leveraged that which wasn't illegal but possibly unethical.

Bernie Sanders was an independent who wanted to ride the coat tails of the Democratic Party. In fact it's been confirmed that the Great Hope of the Democratic Party is going to run as an independent in 2018:

https://www.salon.com/2017/10/24/sanders-betrays-democrats-announces-reelection-run-as-an-independent/
You genuinely read that story and that's all you see??

If so I give up, you are just partisan and in the Hillary cult.

Also soft ollies should stop calling her crooked Hillary and start calling her unethical Hillary.
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I'd rather take a belt sander to me cock and crush me own bollocks with a nut cracker than go within 100yds of her stinky flabby twat.

Offline ShakaHislop

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Re: Re: The F*cking Liar & Deranged Animal.
« Reply #3 on: November 3, 2017, 11:52:43 am »
Quote
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS: We have got to focus on the bread and butter issues that mean so much to ordinary Americans.

Americans are not staying up every day worrying about Russia’s interference in our election. They’re wondering how they’re going to send their kids to college. They’re wondering how they’re going to be able to pay the rent. They are worried about whether they can afford health care. They’re worried about the income they make-- if it is enough to put food on the table. We are the wealthiest country in the history of the world. And our job is to create an economy that works for all of us and not just the 1 percent. And those are issues that we absolutely cannot afford to lose sight of.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2017/10/31/bernie_sanders_americans_are_not_staying_up_every_day_worrying_about_russias_interference_in_our_election.html

They should be, and so should he. Strangely dismissive.

Offline Alan_X

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Re: Re: The F*cking Liar & Deranged Animal.
« Reply #4 on: November 3, 2017, 12:00:18 pm »
You genuinely read that story and that's all you see??

If so I give up, you are just partisan and in the Hillary cult.

Also soft ollies should stop calling her crooked Hillary and start calling her unethical Hillary.


I'm not in any cult. I live and vote in the UK. Try reading the article again without Donna Brazile's hyperbole and pull out the facts.
Sid Lowe (@sidlowe)
09/03/2011 08:04
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Offline Derzyjudek

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Re: Re: The F*cking Liar & Deranged Animal.
« Reply #5 on: November 3, 2017, 12:16:48 pm »
I'm not in any cult. I live and vote in the UK. Try reading the article again without Donna Brazile's hyperbole and pull out the facts.
No , you read it again and take off the rose tinted glasses.

Hillary is the reason we have Trump and this story is part of the reason she won the primary.

Bernie clearly would have beaten Trump , even Trumps own pollster admitted it last week.
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I'd rather take a belt sander to me cock and crush me own bollocks with a nut cracker than go within 100yds of her stinky flabby twat.

Offline mallin9

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Re: Re: The F*cking Liar & Deranged Animal.
« Reply #6 on: November 3, 2017, 12:18:50 pm »
You genuinely read that story and that's all you see??

If so I give up, you are just partisan and in the Hillary cult.


hahaha jesus what was his reaction supposed to be, OFF WITH HER HEAD?  Surprise, Hillary isn't a above-board person!  Surprise, Hillary thought she was above the rules!  The DNC is a mess!  Donna Brazile wants to get the word out this shit isn't on me!  Does any of this really strike you as new?   
 YOU"RE IN THE HILARY CULT reminds me of an acquaintance in the last couple weeks before the election:  guy who spends too much time on Facebook, eagerly forwarding me stories from the Daily Fail and others that looked legit to his eye ("It's a UK newspaper, akin to the NY Times over there!") about Bill Clinton having a plane that was purpose built for sexually assaulting young boys on, and Hillary would ride along as Bill's sexual enforcer.  When I pointed out that he was forwarding me bullshit from the equivalent of the National Enquirer I was informed I was in too much love with the Clintons to be objective, that this was way way way way way worse than the billy bush tape, and her emails?  Yadda yadda. 

I'm glad you're keeping an eye out for the Clinton cultists, maintain the vigil, stay strong, and could you retweet this 10GOP tweet for me?
You'll Never Walk Alone

Offline Alan_X

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Re: Re: The F*cking Liar & Deranged Animal.
« Reply #7 on: November 3, 2017, 12:22:51 pm »
This is the bones of it:

www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/11/02/clinton-brazile-hacks-2016-215774

Inside Hillary Clinton’s Secret Takeover of the DNC

Before I called Bernie Sanders, I lit a candle in my living room and put on some gospel music...   


...I had promised Bernie when I took the helm of the Democratic National Committee after the convention that I would get to the bottom of whether Hillary Clinton’s team had rigged the nomination process, as a cache of emails stolen by Russian hackers and posted online had suggested... ...As Hillary’s campaign gained momentum, she resolved the party’s debt.... ...It had become dependent on her campaign for survival, for which she expected to wield control of its operations....
...in July, I called Gary Gensler, the chief financial officer of Hillary’s campaign. He wasted no words. He told me the Democratic Party was broke and $2 million in debt.

Obama left the party $24 million in debt—$15 million in bank debt and more than $8 million owed to vendors after the 2012 campaign...
...Hillary for America (the campaign) and the Hillary Victory Fund (its joint fundraising vehicle with the DNC) had taken care of 80 percent of the remaining debt in 2016, about $10 million...

..
.Gary said the campaign had to do it or the party would collapse.

...“That was the deal that Robby struck with Debbie,” he explained, referring to campaign manager Robby Mook. “It was to sustain the DNC. We sent the party nearly $20 million from September until the convention, and more to prepare for the election.”

...The agreement—signed by Amy Dacey, the former CEO of the DNC, and Robby Mook with a copy to Marc Elias—specified that in exchange for raising money and investing in the DNC, Hillary would control the party’s finances, strategy, and all the money raised. Her campaign had the right of refusal of who would be the party communications director, and it would make final decisions on all the other staff...

...I had tried to search out any other evidence of internal corruption that would show that the DNC was rigging the system to throw the primary to Hillary, but I could not find any in party affairs or among the staff. I had gone department by department, investigating individual conduct for evidence of skewed decisions, and I was happy to see that I had found none. Then I found this agreement.

...The funding arrangement with HFA and the victory fund agreement was not illegal, but it sure looked unethical... ...This was not a criminal act...

...I discussed the fundraising agreement that each of the candidates had signed. Bernie was familiar with it, but he and his staff ignored it. They had their own way of raising money through small donations. I described how Hillary’s campaign had taken it another step.


...I told Bernie I had found Hillary’s Joint Fundraising Agreement... ...Bernie took this stoically. He did not yell or express outrage...


The primary process is about selecting a candidate. All selection processes are a fudge in one way or another. Bernie came in as an outsider to use the Democrats as platform for his bid for the Presidency. Seems like a few in the party weren't too keen on an outsider swanning in and taking the prize. Maybe if Bernie had spent a bit of time as a Democrat or at least convinced people he really was a Democrat he'd have stood a better chance.

As Brazile admits, her stunning evidence about fundraising wasn't news to Sanders and his staff had ignored it because they raised funds their own way.

So what exactly is the story here? Party machine tries to get the candidate they want? Shock horror... that's never ever happened before in politics!!!

No offence but if Sanders couldn't navigate this, how on earth was he going to push his agenda through a Republican Senate and House?
Sid Lowe (@sidlowe)
09/03/2011 08:04
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Its all about winning shiny things.

Offline Derzyjudek

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Re: Re: The F*cking Liar & Deranged Animal.
« Reply #8 on: November 3, 2017, 12:31:50 pm »
hahaha jesus what was his reaction supposed to be, OFF WITH HER HEAD?  Surprise, Hillary isn't a above-board person!  Surprise, Hillary thought she was above the rules!  The DNC is a mess!  Donna Brazile wants to get the word out this shit isn't on me!  Does any of this really strike you as new?   
 YOU"RE IN THE HILARY CULT reminds me of an acquaintance in the last couple weeks before the election:  guy who spends too much time on Facebook, eagerly forwarding me stories from the Daily Fail and others that looked legit to his eye ("It's a UK newspaper, akin to the NY Times over there!") about Bill Clinton having a plane that was purpose built for sexually assaulting young boys on, and Hillary would ride along as Bill's sexual enforcer.  When I pointed out that he was forwarding me bullshit from the equivalent of the National Enquirer I was informed I was in too much love with the Clintons to be objective, that this was way way way way way worse than the billy bush tape, and her emails?  Yadda yadda. 

I'm glad you're keeping an eye out for the Clinton cultists, maintain the vigil, stay strong, and could you retweet this 10GOP tweet for me?
No idea what most of that hysterical nonsense means but anyway.

It's a cult of personality, what else is it? She has no ideology, no core beliefs, she's just full of platitudes and cliches and she thought it was her turn.
« Last Edit: November 3, 2017, 12:33:38 pm by Derzyjudek »
Quote from: grifter

I'd rather take a belt sander to me cock and crush me own bollocks with a nut cracker than go within 100yds of her stinky flabby twat.

Offline Derzyjudek

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Re: Re: The F*cking Liar & Deranged Animal.
« Reply #9 on: November 3, 2017, 12:33:05 pm »
This is the bones of it:

The primary process is about selecting a candidate. All selection processes are a fudge in one way or another. Bernie came in as an outsider to use the Democrats as platform for his bid for the Presidency. Seems like a few in the party weren't too keen on an outsider swanning in and taking the prize. Maybe if Bernie had spent a bit of time as a Democrat or at least convinced people he really was a Democrat he'd have stood a better chance.

As Brazile admits, her stunning evidence about fundraising wasn't news to Sanders and his staff had ignored it because they raised funds their own way.

So what exactly is the story here? Party machine tries to get the candidate they want? Shock horror... that's never ever happened before in politics!!!

No offence but if Sanders couldn't navigate this, how on earth was he going to push his agenda through a Republican Senate and House?
So you agree it was rigged?

Quote from: grifter

I'd rather take a belt sander to me cock and crush me own bollocks with a nut cracker than go within 100yds of her stinky flabby twat.

Offline SP

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Re: Re: The F*cking Liar & Deranged Animal.
« Reply #10 on: November 3, 2017, 12:37:53 pm »
Bernie clearly would have beaten Trump , even Trumps own pollster admitted it last week.

The GOP were not attacking Sanders. The stronger he was, the more it weakened the likely candidate Clinton. If he had won the nomination, he would have felt the full force of their bullshit mill. There would have been his own emails, Benghazi, and paedophile pizza. That clearly is about as unjustified as it gets.

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Re: Re: The F*cking Liar & Deranged Animal.
« Reply #11 on: November 3, 2017, 12:38:32 pm »
No , you read it again and take off the rose tinted glasses.

Hillary is the reason we have Trump and this story is part of the reason she won the primary.

Bernie clearly would have beaten Trump , even Trumps own pollster admitted it last week.


You have a very shortsighted view of it if you think Hillary is responsible for Trump - he is the right wing’s monster, facilitated by the media and the Russians, he won the election because he persuaded people in key states to vote for a personality they thought would make America great again, whatever that means - you can’t define every political candidate by their opposition number. So is it Corbyn’s fault we have a Tory government here, by your logic? No, it’s the people who voted.
get thee to the library before the c*nts close it down

we are a bunch of twats commenting on a website.

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Re: Re: The F*cking Liar & Deranged Animal.
« Reply #12 on: November 3, 2017, 12:40:55 pm »
No idea what most of that hysterical nonsense means but anyway.

It's a cult of personality, what else is it? She has no ideology, no core beliefs, she's just full of platitudes and cliches and she thought it was her turn.


You talking about a cult of personality is a bit ironic, don't you think? Bernie Sanders didn't get elected president and neither did Hillary Clinton. Deal with it. If you want to come up with suggestions about what the Democrats should be doing for 2018 and more importantly for 2020 then fine. However, you need to realise that no candidate not even Bernie Sanders can win an election that has already taken place. So, why not start looking to the future instead of going on about how Bernie would have won, if he hadn't been for Hillary and the evil DNC. It would also make you look less partisan and less like you're in the Bernie cult...

Offline Andy_lfc

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Re: Re: The F*cking Liar & Deranged Animal.
« Reply #13 on: November 3, 2017, 12:42:03 pm »
No , you read it again and take off the rose tinted glasses.

Hillary is the reason we have Trump and this story is part of the reason she won the primary.

Bernie clearly would have beaten Trump , even Trumps own pollster admitted it last week.


Good lord, at least we are focusing on the very real and very dangerous issues that are facing us now.  The election of Trump was a coming together of many, many things that have culminated in this massive shit show - yes Hillary Clinton being the democratic candidate was a part of that, but I would argue not the main reason. To glibly state "its all Hillary's fault" is just such a superficial reading of all this.

Yes Bernie was polling well versus Donald Trump but he was given a free pass by the Republican machine, and some would argue help from Russian interference as his presence was helpful to them in destabilising and splitting the Democrat vote.  If he had been the candidate, he would have been targeted just as viciously - maybe not for his corrupt activities, but for his socialist values that would have been spun out as bringing decent hard working Americans to their knees to feed the immigrants and unworthy.  Who knows what the polling would have been once the Russians turned on him ferociously.

Can we not move on already?

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Re: Re: The F*cking Liar & Deranged Animal.
« Reply #14 on: November 3, 2017, 12:56:37 pm »
No idea what most of that hysterical nonsense means but anyway.

It's a cult of personality, what else is it? he has no ideology, no core beliefs, he's just full of platitudes and cliches and he thought people would appreciate daily Two Minutes of Hate.  His buddy Vlad likes all his facebook posts.  Next up let's see if he can start ww3 on twitter. 

hahaha using exclamation points to make a joke is hysteria, noted.  Fixed your 2nd sentence

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Offline Derzyjudek

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Re: Re: The F*cking Liar & Deranged Animal.
« Reply #15 on: November 3, 2017, 12:58:39 pm »
hahaha using exclamation points to make a joke is hysteria, noted.  Fixed your 2nd sentence
Are you ok mate?

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I'd rather take a belt sander to me cock and crush me own bollocks with a nut cracker than go within 100yds of her stinky flabby twat.

Offline Derzyjudek

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Re: Re: The F*cking Liar & Deranged Animal.
« Reply #16 on: November 3, 2017, 01:03:55 pm »
You talking about a cult of personality is a bit ironic, don't you think? Bernie Sanders didn't get elected president and neither did Hillary Clinton. Deal with it. If you want to come up with suggestions about what the Democrats should be doing for 2018 and more importantly for 2020 then fine. However, you need to realise that no candidate not even Bernie Sanders can win an election that has already taken place. So, why not start looking to the future instead of going on about how Bernie would have won, if he hadn't been for Hillary and the evil DNC. It would also make you look less partisan and less like you're in the Bernie cult...
My support for Bernie is the complete opposite of a cult of personality, it's all about policy.

« Last Edit: November 3, 2017, 01:06:07 pm by Derzyjudek »
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I'd rather take a belt sander to me cock and crush me own bollocks with a nut cracker than go within 100yds of her stinky flabby twat.

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Re: Re: The F*cking Liar & Deranged Animal.
« Reply #17 on: November 3, 2017, 01:05:38 pm »
Good lord, at least we are focusing on the very real and very dangerous issues that are facing us now.  The election of Trump was a coming together of many, many things that have culminated in this massive shit show - yes Hillary Clinton being the democratic candidate was a part of that, but I would argue not the main reason. To glibly state "its all Hillary's fault" is just such a superficial reading of all this.

Yes Bernie was polling well versus Donald Drumpf but he was given a free pass by the Republican machine, and some would argue help from Russian interference as his presence was helpful to them in destabilising and splitting the Democrat vote.  If he had been the candidate, he would have been targeted just as viciously - maybe not for his corrupt activities, but for his socialist values that would have been spun out as bringing decent hard working Americans to their knees to feed the immigrants and unworthy.  Who knows what the polling would have been once the Russians turned on him ferociously.

Can we not move on already?
The reason I mentioned it today is because of Donna Brazile's revelations.


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Re: Re: The F*cking Liar & Deranged Animal.
« Reply #18 on: November 3, 2017, 01:07:00 pm »
The reason I mentioned it today is because of Donna Brazile's revelations.

If Bernie Sanders knew of it at the time and ignored it, how can be a revelation?

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Re: Re: The F*cking Liar & Deranged Animal.
« Reply #19 on: November 3, 2017, 01:13:25 pm »
No idea what most of that hysterical nonsense means but anyway.

It's a cult of personality, what else is it? She has no ideology, no core beliefs, she's just full of platitudes and cliches and she thought it was her turn.

Yes of course, she's spent decades in politics, on a local and national level, pursuing various causes (much of that before she had a position in the Obama administration), and yet in all that time she's never developed any ideology or core beliefs. Do you realise how simplistic and dumb that sounds? You might not like what she believes, or how she goes about trying to gain influence / power, but that's a different issue. Even the worst Republicans have an ideology and core beliefs - they may be heinous or crazy beliefs, but they still believe them. Trump is the exception, because he is massively ignorant and has only been interested in politics for the last 4 or 5 years...and even then he's shown no interest in understanding the issues.

Your reaction to these 'revelations' is reminiscent of the way that the right wing media reacts to any slightly controversial story about the Democrats / Clinton...by making a massive mountain out of a molehill, and acting as though a terrible crime has been committed.

Anyway, this is the Donald Drumpf thread isn't it? Why do you want to keep talking about the candidate he defeated a year ago?
« Last Edit: November 3, 2017, 01:15:52 pm by Rob Dylan »

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Re: Re: The F*cking Liar & Deranged Animal.
« Reply #20 on: November 3, 2017, 01:15:23 pm »
If Bernie Sanders knew of it at the time and ignored it, how can be a revelation?
He only knew after the primary, do you not think this is a big story?

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Re: Re: The F*cking Liar & Deranged Animal.
« Reply #21 on: November 3, 2017, 01:19:10 pm »
Yes of course, she's spent decades in politics, on a local and national level, pursuing various causes (much of that before she had a position in the Obama administration), and yet in all that time she's never developed any ideology or core beliefs. Do you realise how simplistic and dumb that sounds? You might not like what she believes, or how she goes about trying to gain influence / power, but that's a different issue. Even the worst Republicans have an ideology and core beliefs - they may be heinous or crazy beliefs, but they still believe them. Trump is the exception, because he is massively ignorant and has only been interested in politics for the last 4 or 5 years...and even then he's shown no interest in understanding the issues.

Your reaction to these 'revelations' is reminiscent of the way that the right wing media reacts to any slightly controversial story about the Democrats / Clinton...by making a massive mountain out of a molehill, and acting as though a terrible crime has been committed.

Anyway, this is the Donald Drumpf thread isn't it? Why do you want to keep talking about the candidate he defeated a year ago?
Strange that because she seems to have been very progressive when she was young but soon turned her back on that when the sweet corporate cash was wafted under her nose.

So what exactly are her core beliefs and ideology?

Quote from: grifter

I'd rather take a belt sander to me cock and crush me own bollocks with a nut cracker than go within 100yds of her stinky flabby twat.

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Re: Re: The F*cking Liar & Deranged Animal.
« Reply #22 on: November 3, 2017, 01:21:23 pm »
The reason I mentioned it today is because of Donna Brazile's revelations.

She has a book to sell. 
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Re: Re: The F*cking Liar & Deranged Animal.
« Reply #23 on: November 3, 2017, 01:22:42 pm »
She has a book to sell.
Yes  I know, you don't think what she says is important?
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I'd rather take a belt sander to me cock and crush me own bollocks with a nut cracker than go within 100yds of her stinky flabby twat.

Offline Rob Dylan

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Re: Re: The F*cking Liar & Deranged Animal.
« Reply #24 on: November 3, 2017, 01:27:58 pm »
He only knew after the primary, do you not think this is a big story?

Not really, Clinton was a more high profile and influential figure within the Party, and her influence and financial resources gave her a clear advantage over Sanders - it was certainly not an ideal situation but unless you can show that the votes were actually rigged, it's not evidence of a 'fixed' election. Also you criticise Clinton for her actions, but why don't you criticise Sanders for pretending to be a Democrat to try and get elected? Shouldn't he have stuck to his 'core beliefs' and stood as an Independent?

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Re: Re: The F*cking Liar & Deranged Animal.
« Reply #25 on: November 3, 2017, 01:32:14 pm »
Derzyjudek - I recommend you read Joy Reid's twitter for context on Brazile's revelations about the JFA:

https://mobile.twitter.com/JoyAnnReid/status/926329971588714496

It explains why this revelation is not really as explosive as it seems.
"And Israeli aggression will continue unabated. BDS. Armed struggle. Peace talks. Protests. Tweets. Social media. Poetry. All are terror in Israel’s books.” Refaat Alareer
https://www.youtube.com/@refaatalareer9499

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Re: Re: The F*cking Liar & Deranged Animal.
« Reply #26 on: November 3, 2017, 01:32:46 pm »
The DNC were supposed to be impartial. They weren't.

Example from that link (there are many more)

On May 5, DNC officials appeared to conspire to raise Sanders's faith as an issue and press on whether he was an atheist -- apparently in hopes of steering religious voters in Kentucky and West Virginia to Clinton. Sanders is Jewish but has previously indicated that he's not religious.

One email from DNC chief financial officer Brad Marshall read: “It might may no difference, but for KY and WVA can we get someone to ask his belief. Does he believe in a God. He had skated on saying he has a Jewish heritage. I think I read he is an atheist. This could make several points difference with my peeps. My Southern Baptist peeps would draw a big difference between a Jew and an atheist."

Marshall added in a later email: “It’s these Jesus thing.”

In response, CEO Amy Dacey said: "Amen."

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Re: Re: The F*cking Liar & Deranged Animal.
« Reply #27 on: November 3, 2017, 01:34:48 pm »
Not really, Clinton was a more high profile and influential figure within the Party, and her influence and financial resources gave her a clear advantage over Sanders - it was certainly not an ideal situation but unless you can show that the votes were actually rigged, it's not evidence of a 'fixed' election. Also you criticise Clinton for her actions, but why don't you criticise Sanders for pretending to be a Democrat to try and get elected? Shouldn't he have stuck to his 'core beliefs' and stood as an Independent?
Not ideal??

She basically controlled the DNC financially and strategically and used it to launder money, if Trump did something like that this thread would explode.

Quote from: grifter

I'd rather take a belt sander to me cock and crush me own bollocks with a nut cracker than go within 100yds of her stinky flabby twat.

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Re: Re: The F*cking Liar & Deranged Animal.
« Reply #28 on: November 3, 2017, 01:35:57 pm »
Strange that because she seems to have been very progressive when she was young but soon turned her back on that when the sweet corporate cash was wafted under her nose.

So what exactly are her core beliefs and ideology?

Firstly, most people are more progressive when they are young. Secondly, when you're campaigning for stuff but you're not actually in power, your focus is always going to be on promoting certain issues, but as Secretary of State you have a different job which is focussed on the day to day running of the government. But yet again you make a simplistic argument, that she 'turned her back' on her previous beliefs - which specific beliefs are you talking about, and where is your specific evidence that 'sweet corporate cash' caused her to do this? You're just coming out with simplistic 'anti-establishment' cliches now.

She's campaigned for and promoted many different issues / policies over the years, I don't agree with her on everything she's done and I can't be bothered to go and research them all now because as I've said, this is the Donald Trump thread and it's frankly boring to still be talking about Clinton and Sanders a year after the election.

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Re: Re: The F*cking Liar & Deranged Animal.
« Reply #29 on: November 3, 2017, 01:38:47 pm »
Derzyjudek - I recommend you read Joy Reid's twitter for context on Brazile's revelations about the JFA:

https://mobile.twitter.com/JoyAnnReid/status/926329971588714496

It explains why this revelation is not really as explosive as it seems.
Yep read it but with respect she is the last person I would listen to on this subject.

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I'd rather take a belt sander to me cock and crush me own bollocks with a nut cracker than go within 100yds of her stinky flabby twat.

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Re: Re: The F*cking Liar & Deranged Animal.
« Reply #30 on: November 3, 2017, 01:40:22 pm »
Not ideal??

She basically controlled the DNC financially and strategically and used it to launder money, if Trump did something like that this thread would explode.



Launder money! That's a new thing. Where did you get that from?
"And Israeli aggression will continue unabated. BDS. Armed struggle. Peace talks. Protests. Tweets. Social media. Poetry. All are terror in Israel’s books.” Refaat Alareer
https://www.youtube.com/@refaatalareer9499

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Re: Re: The F*cking Liar & Deranged Animal.
« Reply #31 on: November 3, 2017, 01:41:03 pm »
Yep read it but with respect she is the last person I would listen to on this subject.



Because she speaks sense?
"And Israeli aggression will continue unabated. BDS. Armed struggle. Peace talks. Protests. Tweets. Social media. Poetry. All are terror in Israel’s books.” Refaat Alareer
https://www.youtube.com/@refaatalareer9499

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Re: Re: The F*cking Liar & Deranged Animal.
« Reply #32 on: November 3, 2017, 01:41:51 pm »
Because she speaks sense?
Erm no she absolutely despises Bernie Sanders.

Quote from: grifter

I'd rather take a belt sander to me cock and crush me own bollocks with a nut cracker than go within 100yds of her stinky flabby twat.

Offline Rob Dylan

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Re: Re: The F*cking Liar & Deranged Animal.
« Reply #33 on: November 3, 2017, 01:42:16 pm »
Not ideal??

She basically controlled the DNC financially and strategically and used it to launder money, if Trump did something like that this thread would explode.

Because this is the Donald Trump thread, not the Hillary Clinton thread.

But again with the exaggerations - where is the clear evidence that she had 'laundered money'?

And clearly she's going to have more influence in the party, because, you know, she was actually a member of it for decades, unlike Sanders who only joined for political expediency because he wanted to get elected.

Look, like everyone I would like to have seen how Sanders would have done against Trump, but he lost the nomination, and Clinton lost the election. Why do we have to keep going over old ground?

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Re: Re: The F*cking Liar & Deranged Animal.
« Reply #34 on: November 3, 2017, 01:44:05 pm »
Yep read it but with respect she is the last person I would listen to on this subject.

Funny how you believe without question the story that fits with what you already believe, and reject the one which contradicts it.

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Re: Re: The F*cking Liar & Deranged Animal.
« Reply #35 on: November 3, 2017, 01:45:19 pm »
Launder money! That's a new thing. Where did you get that from?
Yet the states kept less than half of 1 percent of the $82 million they had amassed from the extravagant fund-raisers Hillary’s campaign was holding, just as Gary had described to me when he and I talked in August. When the Politico story described this arrangement as “essentially … money laundering” for the Clinton campaign, Hillary’s people were outraged at being accused of doing something shady. Bernie’s people were angry for their own reasons, saying this was part of a calculated strategy to throw the nomination to Hillary.

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I'd rather take a belt sander to me cock and crush me own bollocks with a nut cracker than go within 100yds of her stinky flabby twat.

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Re: Re: The F*cking Liar & Deranged Animal.
« Reply #36 on: November 3, 2017, 01:45:49 pm »
as I've said, this is the Donald Drumpf thread and it's frankly boring to still be talking about Clinton and Sanders a year after the election.

The point is that Trump won, and among the several reasons for that was the DNC and their improper support for Hillary. Now, it appears the DNC have not learned their lesson.

In a move that exacerbated the vast intra-party rift exposed during last year’s presidential primary between Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders, Democratic National Committee Chairman Tom Perez has stripped a number of longtime party officials of their “at-large” delegate status or leadership positions, while appointing a slate of 75 new members that include Clinton campaign veterans, lobbyists, and neophytes.

The obvious worry is 2018, and then 2020. The DNC appear to be taking the view that no change is needed. That's pretty hard to swallow in circumstances where they lost to the most unpopular nominee ever.


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Re: Re: The F*cking Liar & Deranged Animal.
« Reply #37 on: November 3, 2017, 01:47:46 pm »
Yes  I know, you don't think what she says is important?


No. It can't be.  Not any more.  All this does is muddy the waters and allow Trump and his cretinous sycophants to throw shade on someone who is now a private citizen in an attempt to deflect from their own, far more serious and likely criminal activity.

Hillary used the political system and how it is funded to gain advantage.  No shock there.  Bernie climbed on the back of that same political system (the DNC), in a cynical attempt to try to gain advantage and power, even though he had never identified as a democrat previously.  No shock there. 

Politics is all about power, influence, money and as such greed and corruption are the very predictable result.  Bernie was not about breaking the system apart and a bright new world, he is very much part of that system himself. 

We have to move on from this conversation.  What's the point?


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Re: Re: The F*cking Liar & Deranged Animal.
« Reply #38 on: November 3, 2017, 01:49:33 pm »
Because this is the Donald Drumpf thread, not the Hillary Clinton thread.

But again with the exaggerations - where is the clear evidence that she had 'laundered money'?

And clearly she's going to have more influence in the party, because, you know, she was actually a member of it for decades, unlike Sanders who only joined for political expediency because he wanted to get elected.

Look, like everyone I would like to have seen how Sanders would have done against Trump, but he lost the nomination, and Clinton lost the election. Why do we have to keep going over old ground?
So you keep saying ,Who made you a mod anyway?

Point me in the direction of the correct thread and i will put it in there. I've posted many times in this thread about this subject.

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I'd rather take a belt sander to me cock and crush me own bollocks with a nut cracker than go within 100yds of her stinky flabby twat.

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Re: Re: The F*cking Liar & Deranged Animal.
« Reply #39 on: November 3, 2017, 01:50:48 pm »
Quite incredible that this 'news' gets so much traction just as the noose tightens on trump. Almost like people deliberately spreading disinformation and counter scandals are looking to deliberately disrupt american politics....

There is 1 story in town right now, and that is that the Russian Government helped elect the president of the United States. If that isn't the focus of your attention, you're wasting time. This Bernie bullshit story isn't trying to do anything other than say 'oh but hey they're just as bad'.  This is a total 'nothing burger'.

You do know the story is coming from Donna Brazile, who is a Democrat and ex DNC and who is trying to sell a book? Unless you believe she is secretly a GOP/Trump plant, your point makes no sense.